removed

[senftube.6081]

9 hours ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

The way you answer tell me that you're new to the forum...

The "It's favored by the best players and the best players tend to win" is an old quote of what a dev said when revenant were dominating sPvP and people were crying about it. It's a meme at this point.

I think he's been playing the franchise for a long time. It could well be that you were still on the road with the baby rattle. xD

 

Cata is complete joke and even more when u have stacked teams with it. To much defense abilities and good dmg at the same time is balance crap.

[Ferus.3165]

5 hours ago, Pati.2438 said:

I gues what some guys in this Forums missing is that most classes get their own hard counter classes .... just here a list.

 

Guardian > Thief

Thief has no hard counter.  There are just some classes that have more tools to deal with thief bs mechanics than others but no class really counters thief. Maybe if you count being oneshot from stealth by an engie as hard counter.

[TrollingDemigod.3041]

10 hours ago, Pati.2438 said:

I gues what some guys in this Forums missing is that most classes get their own hard counter classes .... just here a list.

Ranger > Nekro

Nekro > Guardian

Guardian > Thief

Thief > Mesmer

Mesmer > Warrior

Warrior > Nekro

Thief > Ele

That's false. Teef doesn't have hard counters in this game at all. The class with right tools to somehow fight against teefs is only ranger and that's it.
That list is far too simplified and incomplete, Necromancer can counter anything that has high boon spam like Guardian and Elementalist, to some degree even certain Revenant and Ranger builds, but it'll die to Mesmers and teefs for free.

[Deadmoose.6594]

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Edited February 20, 2023 by Deadmoose.6594
removing post

[Dadnir.5038]

15 hours ago, Yunari.9065 said:

I think he's been playing the franchise for a long time.

What does playing for a long time have to do with lacking forum culture?

Edited January 19, 2023 by Dadnir.5038

[Burial.1958]

5 hours ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

What does playing for a long time have to do with lacking forum culture?

Funny, accuses me of a lack of forum culture but all he has written so far in this thread are attacks on my person (ad hominem argumentum). You seem to lack basic debate culture. Probably consumed too many memes., young Padawan.

 

 

[AliamRationem.5172]

On 1/17/2023 at 11:52 PM, Pati.2438 said:

Okay I see why peops saying that scourge and fb are just "removed" ...... but mirage? xD

The only thing that sucks on mirage is ... its sec dodge that is missing rn but letz be honest it was absolute beyond broken back then with all its dodges blinds Blocks ports and stealth. Still happy that this spec is not as good as it was back then xd. Cata is just to good, so is warr but mirage back then was absolute god Mode ^^

Two dodge mirage with old chaotic interruption that added immob to your interrupts was pretty insane.  You stun me, I can still dodge.  I interrupt you, no dodge for you! LoL

[Dadnir.5038]

59 minutes ago, Burial.1958 said:

Funny, accuses me of a lack of forum culture but all he has written so far in this thread are attacks on my person (ad hominem argumentum). You seem to lack basic debate culture. Probably consumed too many memes., young Padawan.

An attack? You feel attacked because I say that you seem new to the forum or because I take the time to explain to you what's the reference that leave you so clueless refer to?

You answer 3 times in this thread and each time based on your "standard" you attack the person you answer to. The first time you dismiss what the person say quickly (basicaly ignoring their own arguments), the second time you question the logic of the person you answer to and the third you're asking me whether I have "basic debate culture".

[senftube.6081]

13 minutes ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

An attack? You feel attacked because I say that you seem new to the forum or because I take the time to explain to you what's the reference that leave you so clueless refer to?

You answer 3 times in this thread and each time based on your "standard" you attack the person you answer to. The first time you dismiss what the person say quickly (basicaly ignoring their own arguments), the second time you question the logic of the person you answer to and the third you're asking me whether I have "basic debate culture".

What a offtopic trash talk.

[Dadnir.5038]

27 minutes ago, Yunari.9065 said:

What a offtopic trash talk.

Sure, tell me what the topic is? Isn't it "remove cata, it's beyond OP."

2 page in:

There is No argument.

There is No analysis.

There is just people either saying "yes it's OP!" or being ironic.

Somehow you and burial make me into a "villain" because I explain the meme he missed from one of the ironic answers.

Is it hard for them to accept that they didn't get a reference?

Did you get the reference yourself? What are you trying to defend exactly?

Do you think your:

"It could well be that you were still on the road with the baby rattle."

wasn't trash talk?

Edited January 19, 2023 by Dadnir.5038

[Myror.7521]

@Deadmoose.6594

Well that list was just an example. If course there are builds that goes the opposide. Or simply doesn't have too many counters. And no I would not delete any class cause as said every class/build get their counter class/build. 

[Peter.3901]

So remove spellbreaker, holo, virtuoso and guardian too

[senftube.6081]

2 hours ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

Sure, tell me what the topic is? Isn't it "remove cata, it's beyond OP."

2 page in:

There is No argument.

There is No analysis.

There is just people either saying "yes it's OP!" or being ironic.

Somehow you and burial make me into a "villain" because I explain the meme he missed from one of the ironic answers.

Is it hard for them to accept that they didn't get a reference?

Did you get the reference yourself? What are you trying to defend exactly?

Do you think your:

"It could well be that you were still on the road with the baby rattle."

wasn't trash talk?

 And again trashtalk. Your a meme

[Mell.4873]

Catalyst is fine, you honestly just need to wait for all there cooldowns then blast them. Watch for water and earth stance, stop DPSing then burst them in fire and air stance. 

The number of times I have seen them go from full health to 0 in seconds.

[Dr Meta.3158]

On 1/18/2023 at 6:52 AM, Pati.2438 said:

@semak.7481 well to be fair it was back then only max 4 mes but its like this cause thief and rev where also pretty strong back then. While thief is just a hard counter to mes......

 

RN ele and warr are just broken cause thief and mes are not in a that good state sooo their hardest counter classes are miss in the meta. Tho im pretty sure a condi mirage could actually deal with warrior buut its bad in most other matchubs so it does not see many play atm. (Also cause still it would simply need too long to kill the warr). And thief ...... well it just miss dmg ........ . 

 

I gues what some guys in this Forums missing is that most classes get their own hard counter classes .... just here a list.

Ranger > Nekro

Nekro > Guardian

Guardian > Thief

Thief > Mesmer

Mesmer > Warrior

Warrior > Nekro

Thief > Ele

 

Of course there are some builds/classes that are good or decent on opposide way but this short list Shows how it is most of the time

 

(To be fair idk what engi is strong against or is bad against also idk what ele is strong against since i do never touched this classes)

 

 

According to this counters list,

Necromancer needs a buff

Ranger needs a nerf

Guardian is balanced

Thief needs a nerf

Elementalist needs a buff 

Mesmer is balanced

Warrior is balanced

Revenant needs a rework

Engineer needs a rework

 

I think we got our to do list.. Man we should had called this guy earlier.

 

Edited January 20, 2023 by Dr Meta.3158

[Stallic.2397]

Instead of removing they could change some of the mechanics. 

 

And I'm not talking about Scepter. Cata and Scepter are two different things

 

But cata is about creating auras. What if Each attunement generates a different aura upon combo'ing rather than the original four elements. Don't we have light, dark, chaos, and other auras?? That way, Ele isn't spamming lightning and magnetic aura, which is making everyone pissed... Especially rangers, "cough cough". 

Would be more interesting to create a wider range of auras. 

 

Edited January 20, 2023 by Stallic.2397

[Razor.6392]

Yes please, nerf the culprit and not scepter.

[shion.2084]

34 minutes ago, Razor.6392 said:

Yes please, nerf the culprit and not scepter.

I've seen ridiculous sceptre use on weaver.  There's a fellow whose character name is "remove this class" and he will show you how totally silly, and yet survivable, weaver is on sceptre.   I've also seen tempest leveraging it to great effect.   

[shion.2084]

15 hours ago, Mell.4873 said:

Catalyst is fine, you honestly just need to wait for all there cooldowns then blast them. Watch for water and earth stance, stop DPSing then burst them in fire and air stance. 

The number of times I have seen them go from full health to 0 in seconds.

The problem with trying to burst them in fire stance, is that if your class is mele, you'd have to actually be able to not melt in a second while standing next to them.

[Razor.6392]

4 minutes ago, shion.2084 said:

I've seen ridiculous sceptre use on weaver.  There's a fellow whose character name is "remove this class" and he will show you how totally silly, and yet survivable, weaver is on sceptre.   I've also seen tempest leveraging it to great effect.   

It might seem oppressive but still dies to top tier specs.

 

[Deadmoose.6594]

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Edited February 20, 2023 by Deadmoose.6594
removing post

[semak.7481]

On 1/20/2023 at 5:16 PM, Razor.6392 said:

Yes please, nerf the culprit and not scepter.

Fixed.

On 1/20/2023 at 5:57 PM, Razor.6392 said:

It might seem oppressive but still dies to top tier specs.

 

I'v seen it before and it was like: "I'm using this [insert OP class] and I die to everyone, therefore, my class is not OP!". Sounds like forum warriors as of late 😆

[Myror.7521]

@Dr Meta.3158 But this list isn't true enemymore xD. It Was just an example cause this is how it was back then in like idk 2014 or something like that. Mean before HoT droped. Also it was just an example of what class used to counter. It could be easily the opposide nowdays cause of e-specs and stuff.

All I meant to say with it was. There are peops that overreacting when they get smashed by builds that hard counter them.

[Terrorhuz.4695]

On 1/18/2023 at 12:52 PM, Pati.2438 said:

RN ele and warr are just broken cause thief and mes are not in a that good state sooo their hardest counter classes are miss in the meta

Ele with scepter gets absolutely destroyed by condi mesmer, from a mechanical PoV. Casting a gazillion skills is not good when your opponent has confusion and you have 0 cleanse.

Ele with hammer gives exactly 0 kittens about any mesmer spec. Power, condi, bunker, roamer, nothing matters, hammer cata still wins 100% of the times.

 

As for spellbreaker.

Mesmer does not counter warrior. Mesmer used countered warriors dumb enough to cast mending without blind\aegis\stability\in clear LoS of a mesmer with power block: that's the one and only opening.
But rn

- warrior is pretty much invulnerable to damaging conditions: halved the cd on shake it off, mending is still a full cleanse every 16s, 1\2 cleanses on every weapon swap (that's 4s)
- clones will proc full counter, 100% of the times: endless supply of bursts and adrenaline.
- spellbreaker ignores half of the defensives mechanic on mesmer: magebane tether prevents stealth\blink\slow (on chrono), resistance on dodge prevents blinds\weakness, stab on CC prevents rupts (maybe you miss the mesmer but you'll always hit a clone), aura slicer\full counter go through blocks
- mesmer usually has no boons: that, with light armor, means dagger burst hit for some 7-8k, very reliably
- on flat ground, warrior is one of the fastest classes in the game; even if the warrior is pressured, you can't chase through 2 dagger leaps, then gs swing-rush\hammer jump, then bull rush, then rampage, then full counter to cover the one moment they're vulnerable. There's 0 room to convert into a kill; the warrior, however, DOES have the tools to convert into a kill, because mesmer has always been struggling with movement other than blink on 35s cd.
- full counter and mending on such low cds makes it to that mesmer mechanically lacks the damage to fight back. Doesn't help that FC has the same cd as most of mesmer's damaging abilities (gs2, traited F1)

 

In this situation, mesmer does not counter warrior. Not in the slightest.

Edited January 25, 2023 by Terrorhuz.4695

[apharma.3741]

Easiest way to effectively disable catalyst would be to disable jade spheres till they can tweak catalyst, can even say:
Jade spheres are disabled due to degenerate game play.