Calling it out now - Patch results prediction

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

1. Catalyst will still be OP and will still need nerfing.
2. Spellbreaker will continue to run amuck because it is for whatever reason receiving barely any nerfing.
3. Virtuoso will appear on the metabattle list of 3 viable builds to play in the next meta, due to changes to Master Of Manipulation making it a class that you actually cannot hit unless you have unblockable attacks. Seriously, you won't be able to hit it without unblockable attacks. This single change will likely put it on par with Catalyst levels of OP.
4. People will try to play teleport-crept Hammer Guardian builds but they're still going to suck because Catalyst will still nuke Guardian with 1shots and infinitely kite it with super speed. It also won't be able to hit Virtuosos, and teleporting will be useless against Spellbreakers because Spellbreakers want to bait you into melee range to begin with.
5. Rev is a class favored by the best players but the best player won't be playing Rev because Vindi is getting nuked and it won't compare to Cata/Spell/Virtu.
6. Changes to Ranger's Wilderness Survival will do absolutely nothing to alter competitive build structures, other than nerfing condi variant burst times if they do not lower the natural ICD of Sharpening Stone. Untamed tele-burst play will disappear with animation time added to Unnatural Traversal and it will be replaced by the mandatory use of Signet Of The Hunt which will be required to be able to hit Virtuoso and Catalyst. With the rise of impossible to strike without unblockables Virtuoso bringing in a 2nd invuln archetype that will be massively overrepresented in play alongside of Cata & Spell, this will remove Sic Em Soulbeast from play, as well as all other projectile based builds and I do mean completely. Untamed utilizing the unblockable signet with frequent anti-projectile bubbles, will become mandatory to use. Ranger archetypes will be moot & pointless outside of the unblockable melee strikes from Untamed. Other Ranger specs will be able to utilize the unblockable sig, but it won't work nearly as well as it will on Untamed.
7. Tool Holo & Scrapper will try hard, but they won't make it into the Cata/Spell/Virtu meta.
8. Thief will remain benched, wondering why his class identity was completely removed after too much mobility & stealth creep.
9. Necro will get benched next to Thief, and start conversation with Thief about "What happened? It's like they just forgot about me one day?"

Edited February 12, 2023 by Trevor Boyer.6524

[Downstate.4697]

1. Yes

2. also yes

3. Virtuoso will still be out rotated

4. Yes

5. yes

6. lb is good but maybe the cooldown reductions on wh and stances could offer some unique play styles. Not sure if signet of hunt will be mandatory unless playing specifically vs virtuoso. 
 

7. yes

8. maybe will see some s/d daredevils since tricks are getting buffed and they have unblockable attacks.

9. Also yes.

 

 

 

[Paradoxoglanis.1904]

1 hour ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

Catalyst will still be OP and will still need nerfing.

As long as cata can spam out auras and boons it will always be a problem. There isnt any way to balance that kind of kitten easily so it will always either be op or useless.

[Spellhunter.9675]

2 hours ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

necro will get benched next to Thief, and start conversation with Thief about "What happened? It's like they just forgot about me one day?"

We don't do that.

We will sit next to thief and stare at it agressively.

[Khalisto.5780]

Lets play more offmeta

 

It was a fun run core ele actually doing dmg

Now maybe i'll push a staff bunker build

Edited February 12, 2023 by Khalisto.5780

[Terrorhuz.4695]

Virtuoso is going to be meta, but not because of "1 stack of aegis once every 35s" (please). The changes to master of manipulation will do nothing.

Virtuoso is going to be meta because it will play like a deadeye, except it also strip boons and everything it does is also unblockable. Which, if you ask me, is going to be a huge problem

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

1 hour ago, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

"1 stack of aegis once every 35s"

Nah dude, they'll go back to old traditional full shatter builds running many manipulation skills due to this trait. It'll spam party aegis more frequently than a core guard due to this trait.

Probably be looking at Mirror (20s cd) - Arcane Thievery (25s cd) - Blink (35s cd) - Mass Invis (75s cd) - then w/e extra utility it wants to bring. Case & point though, is that this is before any 20% CDs or alacrity. The aegis procs off this will be much more frequent than 35s. Just the heal utility alone will be 16s party aegis spam. Arcane will be a 20s party aegis spam. Blink will be a 28s party aegis spam. Mass Invis will be 60s party aegis spam.

Per 60s in combat we're looking at 3x party aegis from heal utility, 3x party aegis spam from Arcane, 2x from Blink, and 1x from Mass Invis. Bro that's 9x party aegis per 60 intervals, also equating to 9x extra aegis personally during 1v1 engagements, stacking on top of Virtuoso natural blocks, stacking on top of all the Distortion, stacking on top of all the reflects, stacking on top of Sword Blur, stacking on top of natural dodge rolls.

This very ill-thought change is going to get very out of control very quickly. It won't be possible to hit this build without unblockables or unless the Virtuoso goes AFK.

 

What this is going to do to team fights is going to be disgusting when you get a couple Mesmers tossing around 9x aegis per 60s alongside of a couple Eles throwing around all their party damage mitigation. No one will be able to hit anything consistently enough to present kill threat. We won't even need heal support anymore, just damage mitigation tools. It's going to be stupid as all hell and it doesn't take elaborate game testing to see that this will be the case.

Edited February 12, 2023 by Trevor Boyer.6524

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

nvm

Edited February 13, 2023 by Trevor Boyer.6524

[Ovark.2514]

I agree with everything except that spellbreaker will exit the meta. After being made aware of the fact that spellbreaker was getting free burst triggers with every full counter regardless of if it hits a foe or not, I have been closely paying attention to my fights with spellbreakers as berserker. They are only on-par with me even though they are usually not able to land a single FC hit. I think it will be a rude awakening to all the carried spellbreakers out there once they actually have to learn to land their bursts like every other warrior build.

[Ixl Super Eu Ixl.3259]

The manipulation change for virtuoso is tricky. On one hand, they are adding further virtuoso synergy towards chaos, and on the other hand that requires people to drop inspiration or a damaging trait line to run it. Either way it won't be a full improvement, having to give up sustain for a different sustain or give up damage completely to run both inspiration and chaos (the defensive lines). You will be fine. 

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

8 hours ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

1. Necro will get benched next to Thief, and start conversation with Thief about "What happened? It's like they just forgot about me one day?"

It wasn't forgetfulness that put them on the bench. 

Quote

1. Spellbreaker will continue to run amuck because it is for whatever reason not receiving any nerfing.

Did you not read the "none of your burst traits activate if someone dodges the activation of full counter"?

Edited February 12, 2023 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

30 minutes ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

Did you not read the "none of your burst traits activate if someone dodges the activation of full counter"?

That's only going to effect sloppy Spellbreaker play.

It won't effect higher tiered Spellbreakers who land FC with extremely high success rates.

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

nvm

Edited February 13, 2023 by Trevor Boyer.6524

[Hotride.2187]

Tbh nothing against ele war and mesmer being on top for a few months, considering the last few years. But not so over the top.

[Gotejjeken.1267]

11 hours ago, FrownyClown.8402 said:

6. lb is good but maybe the cooldown reductions on wh and stances could offer some unique play styles. Not sure if signet of hunt will be mandatory unless playing specifically vs virtuoso.

 

Yes, I would not rule out WH builds, as baseline CD reduction there is actually potentially a very big change.

[Arheundel.6451]

2 hours ago, Hotride.2187 said:

Tbh nothing against ele war and mesmer being on top for a few months, considering the last few years. But not so over the top.

Cata specs are weak to condis which is also their main source of dmg....full counter and diversion spam are the most annoying things in existence but can be dealt with. You'd need to look outside the box of copy/paste builds from metabattle though and actually learn a specific profession inside out, being able to suit tailor builds to deal with specific specs and most general siituations.

Most players in the end cannot play a class outside of what posted on metabattle....and that's why they will be always victims and never the victors. I thx the gods the old school playerbase was not as whining and entitled as the GW2 playerbase.

Can you imagine this lot playing in a game with assisted  timed team burst, perma ranged blind, fake cast rotations and insta perma interrupt?...Good lord in heaven! These people would write a whine thread as long as the Bible!

Edited February 12, 2023 by Arheundel.6451

[Demonoid.6301]

This is in regards to Virtuoso using Guardian Rune. There's a 2 second ICD (not that it matters given aegis isn't spammed as much as you think) on that rune so it isn't doing much even if you had permanent aegis. It isn't even an AoE burn. The rune is losing you around 300 condition/power damage other runes could give so you sit at 1,200 condition damage. The stat tradeoff is a bit of healing power which doesn't help Chaos Mesmer hardly at all compared to Inspiration Mesmer. The toughness is nice I guess, but given how little virtuoso takes direct hits in succession then I would say it has poor value. For what, a burn? You will apply a burn tick of around 400 whole damage if you successfully trigger the condition to gain the application. Given the rune is 1 whole second of burning it can be seen to not only pair poorly with condition duration bonuses but also play a poor role in covering other conditions. Then you realize you have no movement speed increase at all just to apply a single condition that struggles to do as much damage as a weakened auto attack on a single target. Sorry, but you should be more worried about how often Virtuoso will be bypassing blocks and reflects after this patch. 

[Skullsox.9162]

Personally I think it'll be more of a clown show, ridiculous unbalanced metas, match making still being about as atrocious as ever , and the population still declining making match making worse. I for one am most likely quiting pvp just unbelievably unfun. Been kinda hoping for anet to really care about the pvp community but the message is clear.

Edited February 12, 2023 by Skullsox.9162

[Wyrdern.4092]

I just want my old not-buggy ground target Dragon's Tooth back

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

9 hours ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

That's only going to effect sloppy Spellbreaker play.

It won't effect higher tiered Spellbreakers who land FC with extremely high success rates.

Yeah, the nerfs aren't actually nerfs with the exception to AH, which is the wrong thing to touch in the first place.

Did you notice the nerf-in-name-only for Fierce Blow?

[Waffles.5632]

10 hours ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

That's only going to effect sloppy Spellbreaker play.

It won't effect higher tiered Spellbreakers who land FC with extremely high success rates.

In team fights this is generally true because FC is AOE so it is bound to hit something, however in side node fights this is a huge nerf because you can effectively bait out an FC and save a dodge to avoid the counter now. There is a .5 sec or so delay between when you hit FC and when FC hits you. More people need to realize this.

This change will see more warriors losing out on side nodes against equally skilled players. It is a good change because it lowers the mechanical power of side noding SB's, and as others have pointed out, now SB's have to actually land their burst to get their traits to proc like every other warrior spec. It evens the playing field so no matter how you slice it, it is a hit to SB's, and a pretty decent one at that.

 

I'd like to point out once again though of your completely dismissive attitude to anyone that disagrees with you.

You said SB received no nerfs, then someone pointed out to you that they did in fact receive a pretty hefty nerf, and you dismissed it with nonsense, moving the goal post to something else. You really need to stop posting things as if they are fact, and be more open minded to other perspectives because you post a lot of biased misinformation. It is okay to be wrong on some things.

[semak.7481]

17 hours ago, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

Virtuoso is going to be meta, but not because of "1 stack of aegis once every 35s" (please). The changes to master of manipulation will do nothing.

Virtuoso is going to be meta because it will play like a deadeye, except it also strip boons and everything it does is also unblockable. Which, if you ask me, is going to be a huge problem

The reason for virtuoso to become meta - fixed unblockable trait. Reasons for it to not become meta - spellbreaker and its clunkiness.

TB as always cant live in a world where projectile reflect exists 🤣

[aymnad.9023]

What I agree with : Ele and war still being powerhouses. Rangers going unblockable.

What I disagree with : 0 mention of willbender? With the nerf to ranger blink, the virtues and  gs changes, willbender is VERY happy and could become the preferred roamer for a lot of players. If they really do some patches mid seasons for catalysts then holo gets a big opening. I also think  specters are lurking in the corner and should not be underestimated.

 

For ranked I do expect more virtuosos (not sure in tournaments) and also dh. I would not be surprised if condi berserker starts becoming an easy duelist option.

Edited February 12, 2023 by aymnad.9023

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

@Trevor Boyer.6524

Quote

That's only going to effect sloppy Spellbreaker play.

It won't effect higher tiered Spellbreakers who land FC with extremely high success rates.

How? You can react to full counter now and deprive the warrior of several traits that they would need to stay alive. This, in addition to the adrenal health nerf, is a sustain nerf for sidenoding. You have to proc -AND- get hit by it now for the warrior to get any value. Do you not understand? 

Regarding this:

Quote

effect higher tiered Spellbreakers who land FC with extremely high success rates.

Is 'affecting higher tiered spellbreakers' regardless of the nature of the issue with full counter what you want?

Be sure you keep that same energy for certain other things that have even looser timing requirements, then. 

Edited February 12, 2023 by Azure The Heartless.3261
Now with 98% less antagonism

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

3 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Yeah, the nerfs aren't actually nerfs with the exception to AH, which is the wrong thing to touch in the first place.

Did you notice the nerf-in-name-only for Fierce Blow?

Don't agree, see above (or the bottom of the last page, I guess?).  Not only is it a nerf it -also- makes every build that uses Adrenal Health weaker. 

Unless your build literally cannot stop attacking in which case tell me which mechanic is sloppier.

Edited February 12, 2023 by Azure The Heartless.3261