The new (or old) enemy. [The new LW Lore discussion]

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

9 minutes ago, mandala.8507 said:

I didn't misunderstand anything, I'm countering your contention that enemy types from the open world were mindlessly put into this patch due to laziness and lack of development focus by pointing out that, objectively, there was a lot of though put into what enemies existed in every location throughout the patch and why.

Except that you didn't point that out at all.

You talked about mobs unrelated to this release, as well as mobs unrelated to those I talked about.

9 minutes ago, mandala.8507 said:

Yeah, I think your quickness to pass off her deliberate mention of the Zaishen as filler dialogue when it was included in the penultimate cutscene of EoD as part of the story's climax is an underestimation of this studio's focus on world-building/attention to detail and of the expense of making quality voiced cutscenes. That line isn't there on accident and the Zaishen lore is far more complex than them just being "protectors of the innocent".

The point of that cutscene was to show that the Void outbreak was a global situation. Of course the line isn't there on accident, and yeah the Zaishen lore is more complex than them being "just" protectors of the innocent - I never said that was all they were. But it isn't some super complex conspiracy theory here. It's very simple: Zafirah mentions the Zaishen because she is a Zaishen. It wouldn't make sense for her to shout out "Mordant Crescent, ready your weapons!" Her calling out the Zaishen has zero relation to who the enemy is, just the fact that there is an enemy to fight, and innocents to defend. Zaishen lore may be complex, namely GW1 side of it, but the situation of that cinematic was not.

And the enemy she fought has zero relation to Nightmares.

9 minutes ago, mandala.8507 said:

Yeah, no. This is still an absolutely false equivalency.

Good to know I ruined my ability to ever be surprised by a big-picture narrative decision from this studio for the foreseeable future so that I could be a called a troll and told I'm reaching.

Honestly, a lot of your claims of Void being tied in to just about everything is false equivalency. So it's very ironic to hear you tell me that.

I'm not the one who tried to say that every single Nightmare creature, the sylvari Nightmare, and the prophecy of Abaddon's return called Nightfall are all related. You're either trolling, or you're in serious thumbtack and string conspiracy theory based on generic word association.

I don't think that has anything to do with being unsurprised at certain plot developments in GW2 lately. They're not exactly deep or complex. And to be clear: that's not a bad thing. Too much complexity is bad, in fact.

[mandala.8507]

16 minutes ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

Honestly, a lot of your claims of Void being tied in to just about everything is false equivalency. So it's very ironic to hear you tell me that.

I'm not the one who tried to say that every single Nightmare creature, the sylvari Nightmare, and the prophecy of Abaddon's return called Nightfall are all related. You're either trolling, or you're in serious thumbtack and string conspiracy theory based on generic word association.

Eh, not my fault I can read between the lines. Hopefully this studio still has enough steam to finish what they started here.

19 minutes ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

Too much complexity is bad, in fact.

Wholeheartedly agree, evidenced by the supposed most knowledgeable lore people in this community telling me I don't know what I'm talking about and calling me a conspiracy theorist.

[Imba.9451]

Honestly?

So far, I am interested. And thats coming from someone who usually goes to the forums in order to express his disappointment with GW2's writing.

I am not arguing, that this release is the holy grail and shining vanguard of astounding things to come. Heck, if anything, I am enough of a cynic to wait for the structural cracks to present themselves in order for my nerdy, neckbeardy inner critic to sink my claws in. But what I see right now is potential. The dragons are finally done for, and we get something new, wich could give us new character dynamics, a new threat, and more worldbuilding that doesn't relate to giant lizards.

 

Am I afraid of Anet messing it up? Heck yeah, of course I am. Neither have I forgotten nor gorgiven all of their misssteps.

 

But I am willing to lean back and wait for what is to come - for now. I perceive this update not as a real chapter, but a playable teaser, and I am interested to learn more. This got me hooked way more, that all the dragon related stuff other the past 5 years.

[Eekasqueak.7850]

6 hours ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

You'd think there'd be more Mists stuff elsewhere, if this was the reasoning.

Not sure I'd agree about "something Mists related going on" - at least with this release. I could see them using a familiar demon (Kanaxai) to introduce players to demon lore in general, for expansion 4 and going forward with demons and Mists.

Are demons not mists related? Also I'm talking specifically about Kralkatorrik crashing through the god realms and mixing up places within the mists so that shadow army creatures end up in other realms and with Menzies not around they're leaderless. 

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

18 minutes ago, Eekasqueak.7850 said:

Are demons not mists related? Also I'm talking specifically about Kralkatorrik crashing through the god realms and mixing up places within the mists so that shadow army creatures end up in other realms and with Menzies not around they're leaderless. 

Most demons are from the Mists, yes. But Kanaxai and the Oni have been around on Cantha for well over 450 years now, and nothing says they came to Cantha from The Deep. There was no suggestion of a portal to the Mists in the Deep in GW1. I think it's even more distanced from the Mists and Mists-related storytelling than Bastion of the Penitent was.

The closest we get to suggestion of that is the twisted stone in the form of creatures and mouths, similar to the Ring of Fire and Mouth of Torment (using the same models as the latter in fact), which could imply a portal to the Realm of Torment there. It wouldn't surprise me if they go that route, but I'm not sure I agree with it yet.

We also aren't sure that Menzies is gone. It's implied but only loosely, not confirmed.

[Eekasqueak.7850]

2 hours ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

Most demons are from the Mists, yes. But Kanaxai and the Oni have been around on Cantha for well over 450 years now, and nothing says they came to Cantha from The Deep. There was no suggestion of a portal to the Mists in the Deep in GW1. I think it's even more distanced from the Mists and Mists-related storytelling than Bastion of the Penitent was.

The closest we get to suggestion of that is the twisted stone in the form of creatures and mouths, similar to the Ring of Fire and Mouth of Torment (using the same models as the latter in fact), which could imply a portal to the Realm of Torment there. It wouldn't surprise me if they go that route, but I'm not sure I agree with it yet.

We also aren't sure that Menzies is gone. It's implied but only loosely, not confirmed.

Main point I was trying to make though is confirmed or not there are some pretty easy justifications for the shadow army being loose and about. A lot of people have been suspecting invaders from the mists as the next big story beat too, much of this we'll find out next episode I'm sure but I don't see the shadows showing up as much of an egregious thing after they were around in dragonfall. 

[mandala.8507]

Okay, so another interesting thing about the story is that we seem to be hurting ourselves when we hurt the demon.

When we beat it up in its corrupted anomaly form in the corridor, it chokes up and then we choke up. And when we knock it out in its Oni form we get knocked out. This demon doesn't seem to be just interested in us, but intimately bound to us somehow, and we to it.

[mandala.8507]

Thus, I am recommending the title of this next chapter be "My Little Oni".

Thank you.

[Guy.9207]

1 hour ago, mandala.8507 said:

Okay, so another interesting thing about the story is that we seem to be hurting ourselves when we hurt the demon.

When we beat it up in its corrupted anomaly form in the corridor, it chokes up and then we choke up. And when we knock it out in its Oni form we get knocked out. This demon doesn't seem to be just interested in us, but intimately bound to us somehow, and we to it.

Literal inner demons, I like it.

This actually fits in with the little idea I have in mind that the Commander will die by the end of the story, at their own hands after slaying the demons in a heroic sacrifice.

Edited March 5, 2023 by NeverLoseGuy.3894

[HnRkLnXqZ.1870]

So far, each of the episode's names were chosen wisely and gave an idea about its content, sometimes in retrospective. Now the titles of the episodes and chapters are mostly written in capital letters, except for the words "of" "in" "the". But the way this episode is written, there are actually two ways of interpretation:

The obvious one is what we see on the first look "What lies beneath?" Meaning what is under the the Jade See, beyond the End of Dragons.

The second interpretation is a little more intriguing. "what Lies beneath?" Maybe what we were told about the world so far was not fully correct. Big question for me is, which information, which fact we currently rely on can be the lies? The most obvious for me would be the origin of the void. But maybe it is a little bigger. Maybe the dragon-cycle? If the word Lies is meant as a noun, this could be very interesting.
-
EDIT: Thought about Omadd's Machine again. It showed us the order the Elder Dragons woke up. Maybe the ED blocked something, so someone had to get rid of them. As much as we know about the cycle, you do not need much to put someone on the 'right' track, given they are powerful enough to do it. Once the first piece in the chain is missing everything else more or less goes automatic.

With every dragon you get rid off, the more energy goes to the next one, the more berserk they go. If there is somebody behind this, they only had to awake/provoke 1 Elder Dragon to remove them all from the equation. Looking at the wiki how Zhaitan awoke ... 'not knowing of Zhaitan's existence'. /doubt

That means if somebody wanted to get rid of the ED, they had to be alive for a very long time. Probably an immortal being, possibly a guardian deity - one of the six or something similar. Full understanding of the dragon-cycle, leyline-system and how to awaken Zhaitan.

We had a few situations where 'luck' saved us and prevented total destruction. There was just a helpful volunteer lending a hand to point us just in the right direction. Next to Balthazar, there was only Abaddon that caused problems, right? And what I was told from some GW1 veterans, his death is not a real fact. So yeah, my bets are on Abaddon.

Edited March 6, 2023 by HnRkLnXqZ.1870

[anninke.7469]

On 3/4/2023 at 1:52 AM, Morena.4567 said:

I know it's been said a few times already but I need to repeat it because the entire playerbase should be shouting it: the Commander voice acting in this episode was absolutely phenomenal! Especially the delivery from Brandon Bales and Steve Staley. Tumblr and some Discord servers are full of people recording the lines in the last instance and comparing the different races. I've never seen such hype about voice acting. Playing the story on my sylvari male felt so real and cut so deep. The voiceover team outdid themselves!

The sylvari male voice acting was so good it was painful. When he said "If that's what it takes" I wished I could just reach in the game and kick Gorrik and Taimi all the way back to Rata Sum (at the very least) 😄

[Forgotten Legend.9281]

On 3/2/2023 at 2:43 PM, Bobby Stein.3612 said:

Related to all this: where do folks think the story is going based on what you know right now? (I'm sure there are theories earlier in the thread and I intend to read through it all when I'm on break. Currently in a VO session so I gotta step away from the forums for a bit.)

i'm actually speculating the return of the Leyline Anomaly (from the side story) which is somehow evolved by contact with unfiltered ley energy, (EDIT: i guess that doesn't make sense... because the leyline anomaly probably comes from the unfiltered leylines, unless it's originally an otherworldy being that came into contact with the leylines before the side story began: new speculation, contact with the new concentrated Haze) and possibly dealing with growing pains and possibly madness. Could possibly be linked to the commander through earlier interactions during the side story, which could be a partial explanation for some of the madness / growing pains. It probably also stumbled upon ancient enemy corpses (like Kanaxie), being partially influenced by / linked to them as well?

i am a little afraid of the mirrored-self-as-an-enemy trope, though. We already fought "ourselves" in the ascension mission in GW1 and ascension references in PoF near Augury Rock, and many many games use an "evil self" as a boss.

Edited March 6, 2023 by Forgotten Legend.9281

[Forgotten Legend.9281]

On 3/3/2023 at 11:25 PM, mandala.8507 said:

On 3/3/2023 at 3:07 PM, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

About the ley-line power source matter: In End of Dragons its established that the Harvest Temple is over a ley-line. What's preventing Canthans from just digging until they reach that ley-line, since it's known about? This doesn't get commented at all, which made it feel in EoD that a mere ley-line hub was insufficient for the energy problem. Same with simply transporting jade to Tyria/Elona's ley-line hubs and transporting back, though "logistics and costs" is a good reason, it'd be nice to see this answered.

 

here's a list of related and unrelated possibilities to consider

1) because the Harvest Temple is a holy site in Cantha. it was the Emperor's retreat solemn duty to pray to Dwayna as part of a ritual there before Shiro killed him there. and the Emperor is basically God to the Canthans.

2) It's also a highly significant historical site, being the place of several major battles. Shiro killing the Emperor, the freeing of Kuunavang, the freeing Soo Won. 

3) The Ministry of Purity probably has listed this as a protected site

4) the digging around it to find the ley line hub below could possibly cause harm or total destruction to the Harvest Temple, and simply that belief of possible harm will stir up rabid fanatical protection of the site.

5) the mining operation hasn't even reached the Temple yet, but eventually will if continued along the path, why try to alter the path? it'll be tons easier to continue digging until they get there. instead of trying to start over at the Temple. doing so would create a logistical nightmare, disrupting the supply lines back to New Kaineng City

 

EDIT: as for the ley lines powering the Jade... i thought it was pretty obvious that it's NOT the typical ley line energy that's powering the jade. it's specifically the new concentrated haze energy that's charging the jade. a whole story step was devoted to this... scan the new energy... then take chunks of jade to where you scanned the concentrations of the new energy. 

based on this information learned in this chapter, there's no reason to dig for the ley line hub under the Harvest Temple. because it's the concentrated haze that's powering the jade from the experiment. 

the concentrated haze is speculated by Gorrik to be affected by and a result of the haze interacting with the ley line hub. (which is most probably the case)

Edited March 6, 2023 by Forgotten Legend.9281

[Lord Korag.8439]

On 3/4/2023 at 7:12 PM, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

introduce players to demon lore in general, for expansion 4 and going forward with demons and Mists.

Despite interesting side story idea indeed, for the main plot I´m going to keep my dragons. Alive or dead, anyhow. Thank you.

Also, in the past Anet stated there is never going to be open world PvE map located in the Mists. For obvious reason, they would have to create another map layer, so we would be able to swich form here to there and contrariwise. Waypoint cost inflation.

Edited March 6, 2023 by Lord Korag.8439

[SunRoamer.5103]

2 hours ago, Lord Korag.8439 said:

Despite interesting side story idea indeed, for the main plot I´m going to keep my dragons. Alive or dead, anyhow. Thank you.

IIRC we have out of game confirmation that the Dragon plot is wrapped up and we're moving away from that.

[Kalavier.1097]

On 2/28/2023 at 6:15 PM, Pax.3548 said:

What called my attention was that the commander, after all this time, instead of being rested and relaxed since the dragon crisis was finally solved after a decade, was exhausted (according to Gorrik at that restaurant) after this chapter, I'm begging to believe the commander, after finally ending the decade long conflict, have began to think on the price they paid, the friends lost and all of the sacrifices made, I really liked were this is going, exploring the psychological scars this conflict left on the commander

I didn't take it as exhausted in voice lines, but just that the Commander lacks the excited leaping into danger and adventure they had in the earlier years of the story.

On 3/1/2023 at 12:14 PM, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

• They call this the deep, but the place is completely incorrect, though the Deep area is very clearly modeled after the eastern half of The Deep - the Deep was connected to Cavalon, which is north of Dragon's End. The Deep in GW2 is, in fact, underneath Aurios Mines. Now this minor major retcon of completely shifting locations does make some sense, as in GW1 Kanaxai's presence was felt in Aurios Mines strongest outside of the Deep. But still, a bit weird to just move The Deep a third of the way across the Jade Sea. It'd be like swapping the locations of Raisu Palace and Nahpui Quarter just because...

 

Being fair, I don't recall any npcs or stuff I've found (I've not searched for audio or text logs yet) describing this as the same place from GW1, just that this is an old Luxon mine the Jade Brotherhood came across and reactivated.

I won't say they describe all of the areas under the sea-floor of the jade sea "The deep" but that was how I took it.  We'll need more information at least to really dive into that part.

[Kalavier.1097]

12 hours ago, Forgotten Legend.9281 said:

EDIT: as for the ley lines powering the Jade... i thought it was pretty obvious that it's NOT the typical ley line energy that's powering the jade. it's specifically the new concentrated haze energy that's charging the jade. a whole story step was devoted to this... scan the new energy... then take chunks of jade to where you scanned the concentrations of the new energy. 

based on this information learned in this chapter, there's no reason to dig for the ley line hub under the Harvest Temple. because it's the concentrated haze that's powering the jade from the experiment. 

the concentrated haze is speculated by Gorrik to be affected by and a result of the haze interacting with the ley line hub. (which is most probably the case)

I think it's just ley-line energy, as the jade around the final room is colored like the old GW1 jade. But it could be that ease of access is a big contender.

Like how distance and Asura are problems for using the Maguuma ley-lines (and Exalted for some).

 

Oh, another aspect of "Why not mine around the harvest temple", the structures. You want to make sure the ground is stable, and the structures. Plus who knows how many frozen human bodies are in that area of the jade... Mining for the ley-line isn't any good if you accidentally topple over the harvest temple and visitor centers that are being rebuilt.

 

edit, might as well repost my thoughts from a discord conversation.

 

Quote

purely theoretical mind you, but thoughts. The ONI has latched onto Commander (Maybe Kanaxi is alive and active in his part of the deep, maybe not. Urgoz is implied alive but sealed away after all?) because the commander naturally has a much stronger link to the ley-lines. With the over-exposure from early seasons (Leading to the shadowstone use) and then with Aurene being bonded to them (edited) Gorrik comments on simple exposure, but not the prolonged stuff which is rarer but has caused hallucinations and other problems. "Had the wind knocked out of me" feels like something related to that. The ONI latching onto her in a solid manner vs a probing?

 

Edited March 6, 2023 by Kalavier.1097

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

13 hours ago, Forgotten Legend.9281 said:

EDIT: as for the ley lines powering the Jade... i thought it was pretty obvious that it's NOT the typical ley line energy that's powering the jade. it's specifically the new concentrated haze energy that's charging the jade. a whole story step was devoted to this... scan the new energy... then take chunks of jade to where you scanned the concentrations of the new energy. 

based on this information learned in this chapter, there's no reason to dig for the ley line hub under the Harvest Temple. because it's the concentrated haze that's powering the jade from the experiment. 

the concentrated haze is speculated by Gorrik to be affected by and a result of the haze interacting with the ley line hub. (which is most probably the case)

Jade absorbing haze turns blackish, while the jade found at the end is a very bright teal color, more similar to GW1 Jade Sea in the same area (Rhea's Crater) but brighter. These are two separate situations, and nothing actually comes from experimenting with the Haze itself.

The mention of ley-line powering jade comes during the story step Deep Trouble:

Gorrik: Wait...is that...

Detective Rama: What is it?

<Character name>: A ley line.

Gorrik: A unparalleled source of raw magic! Pure energy! This must be why the proximate jade is so powerful!

Gorrik: It could be monumental in solving Cantha's energy predicament!

Inspecting the Ley-Line Infused Jade

Ley-Line Infused Jade: The jade down here is all but glowing from the substantial energy levels coursing through out it.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Deep_Trouble_(story)#Dialogue

 

While what you're talking about is during An Air of Mystery:

Gorrik: Any progresss on the jade experiments?

<Character name>: I tested a few jade blocks. Their color darkened after contact with the haze.

Gorrik: Hmm, that would suggest the secondary element imprinted itself on the base. We're on to something here!

<Character name>: That's...nice. Hey, have you heard anything or...anyone odd during our calls?

Almorra Soulkeeper: (static) You... (static) Always seeing monsters where there are none... (static)

Gorrik: I haven't noticed anything. But it's possible a Brotherhood comm is causing interference. Once you're here—

<Character name>: I—I have to go.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/An_Air_of_Mystery

If the situation during Deep Trouble is the Haze's effect on jade, then they have a weird way of showing it by making the jade brighter rather than darker as happened in the story step before.

7 hours ago, Lord Korag.8439 said:

Also, in the past Anet stated there is never going to be open world PvE map located in the Mists. For obvious reason, they would have to create another map layer, so we would be able to swich form here to there and contrariwise. Waypoint cost inflation.

Keep in mind that this was stated by Linsey Murdock, a dev who is no longer working at ArenaNet, during a time before the leadership at ArenaNet changed.

So things have changed and we cannot hold to this statement as an absolute. Besides, "another map layer" exists - with PvP/WvW being on another map layer.

And having a plot dealing with demons doesn't necessarily mean having a plot with open world locations in the Mists.

1 hour ago, Kalavier.1097 said:

Being fair, I don't recall any npcs or stuff I've found (I've not searched for audio or text logs yet) describing this as the same place from GW1, just that this is an old Luxon mine the Jade Brotherhood came across and reactivated.

I won't say they describe all of the areas under the sea-floor of the jade sea "The deep" but that was how I took it.  We'll need more information at least to really dive into that part.

Not directly, but that seems to me to be done for the sake of enhancing the mystery. But there is one dialogue which implies this, even ignoring the whole "former Luxon mine dealing with a location called The Deep and Onis":

Jade Brotherhood Miner: I told you, it's some kind of curse! Why else would everyone be fighting each other down here?

Jade Brotherhood Worker: Working in poisonous mine with you idiots all...day? Night? Yeah, I wonder why people are fighting.

Jade Brotherhood Miner: It's more than just that! Crack a book once in a while, learn some history!

Jade Brotherhood Worker: You're gonna be history if you don't shut up about your stupid books!

Jade Brotherhood Miner: See? It's getting to you too!

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/The_Hollow#Ambient_dialogue

This dialogue indicates that this is tied to Kanaxai's stuff in GW1, since it's known history about this place. What other history could be talked about?

[Gibson.4036]

47 minutes ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

 

Gorrik: Any progresss on the jade experiments?

<Character name>: I tested a few jade blocks. Their color darkened after contact with the haze.

 

I was a little puzzled by this line when I did the story. On whatever graphics settings I have, the blocks turned more bluish, not darker, after I set them on the haze spots.

Edited March 6, 2023 by Gibson.4036

[Randulf.7614]

5 minutes ago, Gibson.4036 said:

I was a little confused by this line when I did the story. On whatever graphics settings I have, the blocks turned more bluish, not darker, after I set them on the haze spots.

Same. I try not to put value on graphical cues because of this variation due to settings

[Forgotten Legend.9281]

not quoting the above, but since the graphics aren't matching the dialogue (as far as the jade's interaction with the concentrated haze), that explains why i thought what i thought... so that begs the question: is the graphics an actual error, or designed that way to keep up confusion / speculation? (referring to the hazes effect on the jade... brighter or darker? right now the jade glowing from the ley lines appearance in-game is too close to the haze infused jade. is it meant to be the same effect? is it supposed to show two different effects or is it meant to show only one effect)

so it's when the commander's team reaches the leyline hub that Gorrik postulates that the hub will power the jade (through visuals of the surrounding charged jade) I guess that makes it easy to describe why they haven't mined around Harvest Temple... they just now discovered the correlation, so there hasn't been a reason or time to even consider mining around Harvest Temple, yet, as they just discovered it "today".

that may change in the future... but my guess is that since the leyline hub in Gayla Delves is already accessible, and known location, that it will be used before the digging expedition even starts near the Temple. after all, they don't know exactly where underground the Harvest Temple ley line hub even is. so it will take a lot of time to find it, before they can use it.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

The jade becoming brighter when interacting with Haze is likely an oversight from new graphics rendering, because the jade becomes blackened with a bright undertone in it. Here is a link to Haze influenced Jade. It does brighten in some parts, but it's got a thick, misty black smoke effect. Unlike the ley-line infused jade, which is pure light-teal brighter.

I guess the smoke effect doesn't show up on lower graphics. But it's the same smoke effect as on Corrupted Jade Sample, but the "behind" part does get brighter.

And compared to Ley-Line Infused Jade, it's significantly darker, almost infected looking.

[Lord Korag.8439]

13 hours ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

Besides, "another map layer" exists - with PvP/WvW being on another map layer.

I am talking about a practical map layer here. Not about another map. They whould have create a function to swich between displayed maps to reach the waypoints or read the map at all. If I were to give an example on a competing product, I´d choose WoW with maps of Azeroth and Outland (planets). Basically, you´d need another "button" added to the map and nobody knows how difficult would it be for the engine powering the ingame map, in other words, back then the map wasn´t developed with this function in mind. Many people were concerned about this before the launch of EoD as Cantha is relatively far from Tyria and GW1 had to use another map to "skip" the distance. In this case the devs solved it by adding "tons and tons" of water, which is, in my oppinion, a better solution than two seperated maps. However, in the case of the Mists they would have no choice (exept the possibility of the Mists merging with Tyria or something like Dragonfall – tbh that dodge with Dragonfall to avoid multiple world maps was also very well done).

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

2 hours ago, Lord Korag.8439 said:

I am talking about a practical map layer here. Not about another map. They whould have create a function to swich between displayed maps to reach the waypoints or read the map at all. If I were to give an example on a competing product, I´d choose WoW with maps of Azeroth and Outland (planets). Basically, you´d need another "button" added to the map and nobody knows how difficult would it be for the engine powering the ingame map, in other words, back then the map wasn´t developed with this function in mind. Many people were concerned about this before the launch of EoD as Cantha is relatively far from Tyria and GW1 had to use another map to "skip" the distance. In this case the devs solved it by adding "tons and tons" of water, which is, in my oppinion, a better solution than two seperated maps. However, in the case of the Mists they would have no choice (exept the possibility of the Mists merging with Tyria or something like Dragonfall – tbh that dodge with Dragonfall to avoid multiple world maps was also very well done).

I mean, GW1 had a map change function that was pretty nice and simple, and there is a spot on the world map with EoD to place it - in the middle of the compass.

A practical map layer as we already have them with the current four wouldn't work because maps mechanically cannot overlap each other according to devs (mind you, years ago) due to technical issues of tomfoolery. But I think adding a simple map that swaps to a second world botton shouldn't be hard to do - whether this button transports you to the central hub on the world world map (e.g., LA vs Heart of the Mists with PvE / PvP in GW2, or LA/Kamadan/Kaineng/Great Temple of Balthazar/Embark Beach/Boreal Station/Gate of Torment in GW1), or a button that toggles the map without transporting you.

The main issue I foresee with the latter is waypoint cost, but with the former, there'd be no such cost - just as currently.

[Kalavier.1097]

17 hours ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

Not directly, but that seems to me to be done for the sake of enhancing the mystery. But there is one dialogue which implies this, even ignoring the whole "former Luxon mine dealing with a location called The Deep and Onis":

Jade Brotherhood Miner: I told you, it's some kind of curse! Why else would everyone be fighting each other down here?

Jade Brotherhood Worker: Working in poisonous mine with you idiots all...day? Night? Yeah, I wonder why people are fighting.

Jade Brotherhood Miner: It's more than just that! Crack a book once in a while, learn some history!

Jade Brotherhood Worker: You're gonna be history if you don't shut up about your stupid books!

Jade Brotherhood Miner: See? It's getting to you too!

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/The_Hollow#Ambient_dialogue

This dialogue indicates that this is tied to Kanaxai's stuff in GW1, since it's known history about this place. What other history could be talked about?

This is part of why I want more information. The person could be referring to a specific mine *the Kanaxai mine in GW1 challenge mission* or an in general statement "Any mines that went below the ocean floor under the jade/went too deep is cursed/causes madness."

17 hours ago, Gibson.4036 said:

I was a little puzzled by this line when I did the story. On whatever graphics settings I have, the blocks turned more bluish, not darker, after I set them on the haze spots.

 

16 hours ago, Randulf.7614 said:

Same. I try not to put value on graphical cues because of this variation due to settings

 

13 hours ago, Forgotten Legend.9281 said:

not quoting the above, but since the graphics aren't matching the dialogue (as far as the jade's interaction with the concentrated haze), that explains why i thought what i thought... so that begs the question: is the graphics an actual error, or designed that way to keep up confusion / speculation? (referring to the hazes effect on the jade... brighter or darker? right now the jade glowing from the ley lines appearance in-game is too close to the haze infused jade. is it meant to be the same effect? is it supposed to show two different effects or is it meant to show only one effect)

so it's when the commander's team reaches the leyline hub that Gorrik postulates that the hub will power the jade (through visuals of the surrounding charged jade) I guess that makes it easy to describe why they haven't mined around Harvest Temple... they just now discovered the correlation, so there hasn't been a reason or time to even consider mining around Harvest Temple, yet, as they just discovered it "today".

that may change in the future... but my guess is that since the leyline hub in Gayla Delves is already accessible, and known location, that it will be used before the digging expedition even starts near the Temple. after all, they don't know exactly where underground the Harvest Temple ley line hub even is. so it will take a lot of time to find it, before they can use it.

 

As noted above in another post, the haze infused jade does become darker with black smokey textures and all, but the color itself goes from green to a blue/teal color like GW1 jade was. So it's darker, but the base color changes.