time to fully destroy stealth in pvp

[Duke Nukem.6783]

stealth is an abusive broken mechanic that has no place in pvp in its present form

for every 30 seconds you spend in stealth the game should disable all ability for you to stealth for 3 minutes. no more of this.

you should also be locked from stealth for 60 seconds upon using a healing skill

this needs serious nerfs and i'm so tired of it

[JosephKatz.9375]

Sounds like someone doesn’t play Engineer, Guardian, Ranger, Warrior, Elementalist or Necro. GG

Edited May 15, 2023 by JosephKatz.9375

[Zex Anthon.8673]

1. Reveal on activating a skill, not on hit.
2. Reveal when leaving stealth.

There, stealth fixed.

[Bazsi.2734]

7 hours ago, Zex Anthon.8673 said:

1. Reveal on activating a skill, not on hit.
2. Reveal when leaving stealth.

There, stealth fixed.

Whenever people start QQ-ing about stealth, that means game balance is in an okay spot(regardless of how fun the current meta is). And this is the first time I do not agree. There are still some adjustments needed before we can have this useless conversation about giving crutches to people who lack object permanence.

[Hotride.2187]

1 hour ago, Bazsi.2734 said:

Whenever people start QQ-ing about stealth, that means game balance is in an okay spot

From following the competitive forums for a while now, I was under the impression that people complain about stealth when they start playing competitive modes.

[shion.2084]

Stealth, port, invuln should all have a debuf on condi and power damage for a period of time after leaving them.   Maybe a waiver for the theif class only based on traiting.

[shion.2084]

14 hours ago, Duke Nukem.6783 said:

stealth is an abusive broken mechanic that has no place in pvp in its present form

for every 30 seconds you spend in stealth the game should disable all ability for you to stealth for 3 minutes. no more of this.

you should also be locked from stealth for 60 seconds upon using a healing skill

this needs serious nerfs and i'm so tired of it

Hey Dac... you're pretty experienced and a rather strong player on guard.  So what particularly cheesed you off?  I'm interested.   (Your Dac Nukem on your toon right?)

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

  🔫🗡️☁️

Spoiler

  ayo wdf

 

Edited May 15, 2023 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[jdawgie.1835]

22 hours ago, Duke Nukem.6783 said:

stealth is an abusive broken mechanic that has no place in pvp in its present form

for every 30 seconds you spend in stealth the game should disable all ability for you to stealth for 3 minutes. no more of this.

you should also be locked from stealth for 60 seconds upon using a healing skill

this needs serious nerfs and i'm so tired of it

Bro this is about one of the most absurd posts I have ever seen.

 

"I get memed by thief and I don't like it" Is the proper variant for this beaten to death topic. Also fyi - stealth has been in the game since launch. All this "its time" BS is silly. 

[Burnfall.9573]

4 minutes ago, jdawgie.1835 said:

Bro this is about one of the most absurd posts I have ever seen.

 

"I get memed by thief and I don't like it" Is the proper variant for this beaten to death topic. Also fyi - stealth has been in the game since launch. All this "its time" BS is silly. 

 

I stand by Truth and ally with Truth. I find the post the most Justified posts I've seen. 

[Mini Crinny.6190]

20 hours ago, JosephKatz.9375 said:

Sounds like someone doesn’t play Engineer, Guardian, Ranger, Warrior, Elementalist or Necro. GG

I didn't realise Elementalist could stealth without using Underwater skills? is there a PvP map that has underwater combat or something? Or has Catalyst got a smoke field as well?

Edited May 15, 2023 by Mini Crinny.6190

[Eddie.9143]

stealth is waayyyy too broken rn. coming from a mesmer main

[Myror.7521]

Stealth or ports in its normal way are not that strong the real Problem is the delay. Its more than often a thing that a Thief attacks you out off stealth or port but get revealed on his place like 4 seconds after his first attack hits ya. This means he could easily cast 3 skills while you as his enemy can not tell where he exactly is or what he is casting. This Bug or Thing over all is ingame long times now and still made me frustrated. 

 

But yea the other Problem is not stealth or port in itself. Its the Comb of Port + stealth + Dodge or Invulnerability Spam. This lead into mesmer be more "tanky" (tanky in Terms of being able to Block/evade/Dodge near every Skill) than a warr while warr should be the tankiest one cause of no stealth Ports or Invulnerability (did not mean it should be unkillable. Warr is defence whise in a good (maybe a Bit too good) spot rn). This Comb also make thiefs hard to catch if not impossible for full melee classes (this plus that stupid CC = 0,001 DMG thing)

Edited May 16, 2023 by Myror.7521

[WhoWantsAHug.3186]

There are really only two builds that can abuse stealth right now and that's untamed and chrono, both if which are way too cracked right now, but thats mainly because the builds themselves. Luckily they both take way too much skill for most ppl, but when someone does have the skill, they are way too oppressive. Chrono is a bit harder to play and a bit easier to deal with though. Can also be counter picked. Untamed not so much.

Stealth is fine otherwise. Daredevil and deadeye are in a great spot right now, as in not OP, but strong and very playable. 

All this being said, the game is pretty balanced as a whole right now. Good job ANet!

Edited May 16, 2023 by WhoWantsAHug.3186

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

Its mostly just that stealth is way too effective as an opener. It has various issues:

1. The model takes too long to load in when they first unstealth. The game should preload the model at the start of the match to prevent this from happening. (You can use basic models to prevent this.)

2. If the first attack is blocked, or otherwise avoided, the stealther isn't revealed and can try again.

3. Stealth has no damage, movement or cast time penalty so players can come out of stealth going full burst mode. Instant-cast skills can be stacked at the same time to completely overwhelm an opponent in seconds. The usual counter to this is some kind of invulnerability on the target (like Distortion), but not every class has access to such tools and just had to "evade and pray", which is a poor design.

4. Stealth breaks targetting which can be very difficult for those who have a hard time targetting enemies. This is called artificial difficulty or "playing the UI" and is generally frowned upon in games.

 

Of these, 1, 2 and 3 are major problems which players have been calling to be fixed since the game was launched. Especially the fact that stealthers have no movement speed penalty and can just fly away while invisible to reset the fight over and over if they're fighting a losing battle or blow their cooldowns on blocks or evades.

 

The ability to reset is what makes oppressive openers so effective, because there's basically no risk of failure if played correctly. If you messed everything completely up, just re-stealth after a few seconds, fly across the arena and then come back and try again once your cooldowns are back in order.

 

Classes that have to remain visible have an extremely limited ability to open (most openers are ranged teleports) and to reset, and are almost never capable of both resetting and then re-opening repeatedly.

Edited May 16, 2023 by SoftFootpaws.9134

[ccccc.4963]

Just play scrapper idgi

[JTGuevara.9018]

I only read the thread title and nothing else. Have a like!

[Loboling.5293]

I've always just felt that stealth over 3 seconds should gradually debuff your damage/condition damage for your next 2 seconds from exiting stealth.

4s: -10%

5s: -20%

Etc.

Caps at 50%

This prevents stealth from being used as an opener if it's used for too long. It's just not a fun mechanic in the game when someone one shots you from stealth. Everything else about stealth is not too bad, especially with the removal of revealed removal abilities. Like what kind of counter counter kitten is this?

[Burnfall.9573]

BROKEN STEALTH MECHANIC DESIGN - 11 YEARS - COUNTING

  "HISTORY IS AGAIN REPEATING ITSELF AND HAS REACHED A NEW LOW" - 2023

Edited May 17, 2023 by Burnfall.9573

[StrangeDaze.2958]

I don't mind stealth by itself, but so many things a thief brings wrap around it or triggered by it - it's happening way to frequently.  I remember when fire weavers were kings of damage.  Why the thief hasn't received similar kinds of changes/core ability nerfs that weavers have?  At least back during PoF, I could out damage a good thief.  Now, I barely get a chance to do anything - reminds me of WoW when those rogues would try to stun-lock.  At least being stun-locked wasn't as bad, as others could see what was happening and maybe try to do something.  But now these thiefs are dropping in and out of stealth every 2 or 3 seconds, and it's impossible to catch or disrupt them its beyond stupid.

But I know I'm shouting into the wind, so thiefs, enjoy it while you can and I'll just keep praying Anet decides to do something that changes your playstyle the way they have done with so many other builds, and relegate stealth to minor ability or outright remove it.

[Dr Meta.3158]

On 5/14/2023 at 9:27 PM, JosephKatz.9375 said:

Sounds like someone doesn’t play Engineer, Guardian, Ranger, Warrior, Elementalist or Necro. GG

What?

On 5/15/2023 at 11:38 PM, SoftFootpaws.9134 said:

Its mostly just that stealth is way too effective as an opener. It has various issues:

1. The model takes too long to load in when they first unstealth. The game should preload the model at the start of the match to prevent this from happening. (You can use basic models to prevent this.)

2. If the first attack is blocked, or otherwise avoided, the stealther isn't revealed and can try again.

3. Stealth has no damage, movement or cast time penalty so players can come out of stealth going full burst mode. Instant-cast skills can be stacked at the same time to completely overwhelm an opponent in seconds. The usual counter to this is some kind of invulnerability on the target (like Distortion), but not every class has access to such tools and just had to "evade and pray", which is a poor design.

4. Stealth breaks targetting which can be very difficult for those who have a hard time targetting enemies. This is called artificial difficulty or "playing the UI" and is generally frowned upon in games.

 

Of these, 1, 2 and 3 are major problems which players have been calling to be fixed since the game was launched. Especially the fact that stealthers have no movement speed penalty and can just fly away while invisible to reset the fight over and over if they're fighting a losing battle or blow their cooldowns on blocks or evades.

 

The ability to reset is what makes oppressive openers so effective, because there's basically no risk of failure if played correctly. If you messed everything completely up, just re-stealth after a few seconds, fly across the arena and then come back and try again once your cooldowns are back in order.

 

Classes that have to remain visible have an extremely limited ability to open (most openers are ranged teleports) and to reset, and are almost never capable of both resetting and then re-opening repeatedly.

Arena net is never going to fix it, they don't care.

Edited May 17, 2023 by Dr Meta.3158

[magickthief.6492]

Players new to pvp thread 100,002

[avey.4201]

Leaving stealth should place non removable reveal on the player for 3s, theifs used to burst and re-stealth before your dodge animation ended making them uncounterable.

[Sahne.6950]

Hot Take:

The goal is to give EVERY PROFESSION access to this. So they either have to add something like this, or they could rework some of the Racial Elites, maybe make it a healskill.... i dont really know.  I have the idea From ESO. They had a similarskill that was available to everyone. People took it for the +15% Damagebonus to setup bursts, and it greatly helped to keep Stealthbuilds in check.

 

Signet of Vision:

Active: Reveal up to 5 players in a 600 range around you for 5 seconds. When a already revealed player is in range, extend the Reveal to 7 seconds.  32 Sec CD

Passive: Deal 15% increased damage to revealed players.

Edited June 19, 2023 by Sahne.6950