A problem with everyone having skyscales

[enigmatic.3576]

53 minutes ago, Ashantara.8731 said:

That's your opinion. Mine obviously differs. The convenience the Skyscale provides allows you to get everywhere faster than by constantly swapping mounts.

The only mounts I swap to on occasion are the Griffon, the Skimmer and the Rollerbeetle. And very rarely the Jackal. Raptor and Springer are ignorable (I only use the Springer to cheese some JPs when they are up for dailies).

It's not an opinion when they have objectively been tested and shown to be faster.  It's like trying to hold an opinion that the Earth is flat despite numerous hard evidence that proves it is not.

Wiki article with the speeds tested unless you want to dispute these as being false. https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mount/Mount_speed_research#Results

Edited July 5, 2023 by enigmatic.3576

[enigmatic.3576]

6 minutes ago, Batalix.2873 said:

If the game made quickly swapping mounts easier I would agree with that.

As it stands, Skyscale is the Mechanist of the mounts. Not really great at a lot of things, but generally good enough at everything without needing much investment/engagement on the part of the player. So of course once someone gets Skyscale they are more likely to just use that.

There are shortcuts available.  This wasn't about which is the most convenient but disputing Skyscale as being the best.  You could argue best as being tied to solely convenience, which one would have to specifically state when making the claim, but that poster was apparently referring to speed in a subsequent post of theirs.

Edited July 5, 2023 by enigmatic.3576

[Batalix.2873]

13 minutes ago, enigmatic.3576 said:

There are shortcuts available.  This wasn't about which is the most convenient but disputing Skyscale as being the best.  You could argue best as being tied to solely convenience, which one would have to specifically state when making the claim, but that poster was apparently referring to speed in a subsequent post of theirs.

That is fair.

I still argue Skyscale is the "best" in the same sense that Mechanist is the "best"...simply the path of least resistance for a lot of players that have them.

Obviously I don't think either is a very good thing for the game if they are too accessible. GW2's two major selling points are mounts/exploration and the espec system, so anything that reduces player engagement with either of those systems (as a matter of being far-and-away the most "efficient" option, and easy to obtain) is a net loss for the game.

If most of the playerbase just settles on Skyscale and mech/Virt (and whatever quickness DPS is laziest), why do we even have these deeper systems and options at all?

Edited July 5, 2023 by Batalix.2873

[ShadowCatz.8437]

5 hours ago, Sindust.7059 said:

This is especially frustrating when following big groups that nuke the bosses down in seconds. Before I got my skyscale, on some maps I just gave up and did something else. It wouldn't surprise me if I'm not the only one. But then again in some cases only beetle or griffon are fast enough to make it in time (for example the post-meta bonus bosses in Dragonfall or Drizzlewood Coast).

As some one that have two accounts with both fully unlocked Skyscale and Crystal Champion I can a sure you that keeping up with Dragonfall post-meta bosses are still hard as its not just enough to have Skyscale, but you need to know where zerg will be going as they use special portals that unlocks as part of last stage of meta which also can be closer then WP to get to those bosses faster then using WP which can be some distance where bonus boss are supposed to be.

I guess it is too easy to blame everything on Skyscale, but ignore the fact that there are zergs and squad that are doing these events so often that they know every nick and nock to get from one place to another which make it seem to be a over powered mount.

[Tuna Bandit.3786]

13 hours ago, Mungrul.9358 said:

I would also suggest maybe slightly shortening the depth of dive required to attain full speed on the Griffin to promote wider use of it over the Skyscale, and maybe add an initial "launch" skill from the Bunny that gets the Griffin high enough to start "flying" through it's dive/ascend cycle.

Ehm there is actually a trick that allows you to do this. It does require a jade bot with gliding boost 3

When you are on bunny, you use the charge key and hit dismount JUST before the bar fills and you are Yeeted up high enough to mount griffon and start diving. Then use Jade Bot Gliding Boost to get a bit higher and you are good to go.

 

[troy.3257]

NM

Edited July 5, 2023 by troy.3257

[Cameryn.5310]

I like my skyscale, but... everything else is much, much faster. 

You'll have to pry my roller beetle out of my cold, dead hands, because it's the absolute best mount for traversing long distances in the game.  And I still think I use my raptor more than any other mount in general.  The bunny is amazing for getting up high, when the skyscale would run out of energy or places to land to recharge.

To me, the only mounts (other than warclaw which I don't have) that aren't useful to me personally are the turtle, because it's a gimmick and doesn't have much functionality for solo players, and the jackal, because the raptor and beetle do everything better.

[jamesg.7128]

I do use skyscale a lot as it saves switching in certain circumstances, but I think I use the raptor more. I would use jackal the least.

Anyway, I think mounts will get further modifications in future expansions otherwise with these new "mini" expansions it's going to be hard to come up with enough new features to call it even a mini.

"Introducing the new "micro" expansion. Mesmers will now gain access to a new weapon! Don't worry, the next 8 releases will include a new weapon for the other 8 classes! Fine print: Revenants only get access to the new weapon after buying all previous expansions." 😉

[Gazrul.3086]

Eh, I actually use raptor the most. I like the skyscale too, but raptor run and jump are great for longer travels and/or travel in hubs. 

[pocky.7468]

There's just something "end of the line" feeling with all this. They can't even release a new mount for this so called "expansion" and instead are just giving away the supposed legendary one almost as a bribe. Not only does it undermine the core ideas of this game's progression but it also looks extremely desperate.

(Black Desert is doing the exact same thing rn BTW and are literally giving away dream horses, something that used to take tons of effort and time, and luck of course cuz its BDO. You can't tell me this doesn't look desperate, because it is, and so is what Anet is doing)

[Geralt.7519]

14 minutes ago, pocky.7468 said:

There's just something "end of the line" feeling with all this. They can't even release a new mount for this so called "expansion" and instead are just giving away the supposed legendary one almost as a bribe. Not only does it undermine the core ideas of this game's progression but it also looks extremely desperate.

I think it's more likely that the new xpac actually requires a flying mount, in that case you can't really expect people to go grind past content before they can jump into the new one.

[Ashen.2907]

22 hours ago, vares.8457 said:

Nonsense, the best mount is a combination of several mounts.
Thinking that skyscale is the best mount for 98% of all content just shows that you don’t know how to handle the other mounts. 

If it takes several different things to match one specific thing then, by definition, the one specific thing is superior to each of the individual different things. Note that the other poster did not say that the Skyscale was better than all other mounts combined, just that (as a singular point) it was the best.

The best MMA fighter of all time would lose a fight against all other MMA fighters simtaneously.

[AgentMoore.9453]

2 hours ago, Ashen.2907 said:

The best MMA fighter of all time would lose a fight against all other MMA fighters simtaneously.

It's more that the best MMA fighter couldn't walk through a mouse hole - but a mouse could.

Skyscale is able to do a lot of things, but it's not always the right choice for what you're trying to do and certainly not always the 'best' in terms of speed or efficiency, which is what was being claimed. Being willing to use different mounts in different situations is what's being said to be the 'best'. If you want to argue that the Skyscale is convenient then sure, but that's a different point.

[Maria Murtor.7253]

Gamers are having fun with the Skyscale for four years and will continue to enjoy it, even though more people can engage in the Skyscale gameplay. But Gamers™ don't like that more people going to have fun, despite the fact, that their enjoyment will not suffer from it. "The fanbase is fn exhausting!" - James Stephanie Sterling

[Donari.5237]

On 7/5/2023 at 1:51 PM, Batalix.2873 said:

If the game made quickly swapping mounts easier I would agree with that.

As it stands, Skyscale is the Mechanist of the mounts. Not really great at a lot of things, but generally good enough at everything without needing much investment/engagement on the part of the player. So of course once someone gets Skyscale they are more likely to just use that.

It's actually very easy to swiftly swap mounts, at the cost of some keyboard real estate.  For example, I won't give you my full setup, but let's say I want to swap from raptor to skimmer.  I have raptor set as my default mount, X therefore puts me on raptor (or dismounts me from raptor or anything else).  Pressing any other mount key dismounts me.  I have skimmer on shift-Z.  So I'm trotting along on my raptor, coming up on a body of water.  I press Shift-Z, and keep shift pressed down for about two running steps before tapping the Z (with shift still held). Bam, I'm on skimmer.  It works for any mount change, press the combo for the new mount, press it again after the tiny cooldown of the dismount animation, you've swapped.

I keep almost all my mounts on shift-something, with the keys all near the left shift key.  Turtle had to get ctrl-X due to running out of keys my small hands can reach.

That said it is true I tend to use Skyscale the most now thanks to its function of lifting me out of aggro while I check the map or sort out loot drops.  However, all my mounts except warclaw get plenty of use in the situations where they will out perform skyscale.  Warclaw gets use in wvw of course but I can go months without touching wvw.

[Sindust.7059]

14 hours ago, Donari.5237 said:

It's actually very easy to swiftly swap mounts, at the cost of some keyboard real estate

Not so simple if you have to do the swap while in aggro range of a couple mobs. They could get you stuck in combat, and then you can't swap. So using skyscale is almost always not just the more convenient option, but also the most optimal one, because by the time you kill the mobs to get on your better suited mount you may already have arrived at your destination with the skyscale that you never dismounted from in the first place.

However they did say that it will be possible to mount in combat, and if this applies to all mounts, not just the skyscale, then you're absolutely right.

[enigmatic.3576]

10 hours ago, Sindust.7059 said:

Not so simple if you have to do the swap while in aggro range of a couple mobs. They could get you stuck in combat, and then you can't swap. So using skyscale is almost always not just the more convenient option, but also the most optimal one, because by the time you kill the mobs to get on your better suited mount you may already have arrived at your destination with the skyscale that you never dismounted from in the first place.

However they did say that it will be possible to mount in combat, and if this applies to all mounts, not just the skyscale, then you're absolutely right.

The bolded part of your post is a fairly large exaggeration.  The maps are not that dense of enemies where you'll "almost always" find difficulty changing mounts.

Edited July 7, 2023 by enigmatic.3576

[Eloc Freidon.5692]

On 7/4/2023 at 3:33 PM, Tuna Bandit.3786 said:

I fail to see how the skyscale made all other mounts obsolete. It is my least used mount

I know from memory about 7 Beetle Guilds
I know from memory at least 12 Griffon Guild.
I know of NO dedicated Skyscale Guilds

It is so extremely underwhelming and only good to get up high, other than that... Griffon rules the Sky, not the Skyscale (despite the title being linked to skyscale, go figure)

Beetle and Griffon are skill based mounts which is why there are guilds dedicated to them. If anything your point proves that Skyscales are used more from how easy they are to use and get around.

[Eloc Freidon.5692]

On 7/4/2023 at 12:08 PM, Witch Engine.2305 said:

A problem that I see with this is that it makes other mounts almost obsolete, very specifically the bunny. The bunny still has advantages but it's slowly being outclassed by the skyscale, a mount that can move in all six degrees while scaling, will be able to shoot fire balls in multiple ways, and then on top of all that we will be able to mount in combat.

I don't think the solution is to somehow try to buff the bunny in a way that it outclasses the skyscale I think a better solution is to have the bunny mount synergize between the two. Perhaps create a mastery that allows it to initiate a more poweful version of it's attack if dropped from a certain height from skyscale or griffon, or some kind of ability that will launch the player into flight at a pretty respectable height, something far more useful than Bond of Faith.

Clearly this is not a priority issue, but its something I think is worth considering down the line. All the other mounts are great and still usesful, I still use the bunny for it's attack but really that's all I use it for. I think the bunny mount could be more interesting that's all, and having cross mount abilities might be cool while keeping older mounts relevant in ever changing content.

It is true that I stopped using Springer entirely when I got Skyscale. However, that is until I saw that you can dismount Springer before a charged jump going off, which makes using Griffon infinitely more useful.

Also Springer CC.

[Gibson.4036]

On 7/5/2023 at 3:03 PM, Tuna Bandit.3786 said:

Ehm there is actually a trick that allows you to do this. It does require a jade bot with gliding boost 3

When you are on bunny, you use the charge key and hit dismount JUST before the bar fills and you are Yeeted up high enough to mount griffon and start diving. Then use Jade Bot Gliding Boost to get a bit higher and you are good to go.

 

It doesn’t require tier three. I don’t do strikes, so all my characters are at Boost Two and it works great. The jade bot boosts have a bit of diminishing returns as you go up tiers.

On 7/5/2023 at 5:47 PM, Cameryn.5310 said:

I like my skyscale, but... everything else is much, much faster. 

You'll have to pry my roller beetle out of my cold, dead hands, because it's the absolute best mount for traversing long distances in the game.  And I still think I use my raptor more than any other mount in general.  The bunny is amazing for getting up high, when the skyscale would run out of energy or places to land to recharge.

To me, the only mounts (other than warclaw which I don't have) that aren't useful to me personally are the turtle, because it's a gimmick and doesn't have much functionality for solo players, and the jackal, because the raptor and beetle do everything better.

I initially used raptor over jackal after unlocking all the mounts, but then settled on jackal being superior to raptor in most situations. It works better uphill and when changing directions. Raptor is inly superior when you need to jump canyons.

On 7/7/2023 at 3:03 AM, Sindust.7059 said:

Not so simple if you have to do the swap while in aggro range of a couple mobs. They could get you stuck in combat, and then you can't swap. So using skyscale is almost always not just the more convenient option, but also the most optimal one, because by the time you kill the mobs to get on your better suited mount you may already have arrived at your destination with the skyscale that you never dismounted from in the first place.

However they did say that it will be possible to mount in combat, and if this applies to all mounts, not just the skyscale, then you're absolutely right.

I hotkey switch mounts all the time. Only occasionally do I get tagged by a mob in between and get forced in to combat. Once you have the muscle memory, the window for mobs to tag you is pretty tight.

Edited July 9, 2023 by Gibson.4036

[Sindust.7059]

3 hours ago, Gibson.4036 said:

I hotkey switch mounts all the time. Only occasionally do I get tagged by a mob in between and get forced in to combat. One you have the muscle memory, the window for mobs to tag you is pretty tight.

I have all mounts hotkeyed too, I know how it works. But getting stuck in combat happens often enough that I just don't risk it any more unless I can be sure that I won't get hit.

Also I'm not exactly arguing in OP's favor. I personally don't care if everyone gets the skyscale. In fact I think it's a good thing. But you can't deny that it reduces the utility of all mounts that don't give you extreme speed boosts (i.e. beetle and griffon). The barrel roll replaces the raptor jump. The altitude you can gain with the skyscale is much more than what you can gain with the springer. On short trips over water the skimmer is irrelevant, because if you can already fly over it, why change mounts at all. And the jackal is irrelevant because it's basically a slower version of the raptor, so it's only useful for the sand portals which don't exist outside of PoF, LWS4 zones and W6. And even the high speed mounts are only preferable in very specific circumstances. The beetle is only good if you are in a zone that is flat and has no or only easily avoidable obstacles. And griffon is only helpful if you find yourself close to one of the highest points in a zone and have to go all the way across it, because if you only have to go a short distance you'd be better off doing a few barrel rolls with the skyscale, since they require less time to set up than a proper boost dive with the griffon.

[jokke.6239]

On 7/5/2023 at 7:51 PM, Batalix.2873 said:

If the game made quickly swapping mounts easier I would agree with that.

As it stands, Skyscale is the Mechanist of the mounts. Not really great at a lot of things, but generally good enough at everything without needing much investment/engagement on the part of the player. So of course once someone gets Skyscale they are more likely to just use that.

 

You can bind every mount to a key.

Doesn't get faster than that

I can see how binding every one of them takes up a lot of keys though

Edited July 10, 2023 by jokke.6239

[Gibson.4036]

On 7/8/2023 at 11:18 AM, Sindust.7059 said:

I have all mounts hotkeyed too, I know how it works. But getting stuck in combat happens often enough that I just don't risk it any more unless I can be sure that I won't get hit.

Also I'm not exactly arguing in OP's favor. I personally don't care if everyone gets the skyscale. In fact I think it's a good thing. But you can't deny that it reduces the utility of all mounts that don't give you extreme speed boosts (i.e. beetle and griffon). The barrel roll replaces the raptor jump. The altitude you can gain with the skyscale is much more than what you can gain with the springer. On short trips over water the skimmer is irrelevant, because if you can already fly over it, why change mounts at all. And the jackal is irrelevant because it's basically a slower version of the raptor, so it's only useful for the sand portals which don't exist outside of PoF, LWS4 zones and W6. And even the high speed mounts are only preferable in very specific circumstances. The beetle is only good if you are in a zone that is flat and has no or only easily avoidable obstacles. And griffon is only helpful if you find yourself close to one of the highest points in a zone and have to go all the way across it, because if you only have to go a short distance you'd be better off doing a few barrel rolls with the skyscale, since they require less time to set up than a proper boost dive with the griffon.

You have a lot of “only available if…”

A little more use and you might find some of these mounts are not as niche as you think.

I though raptor superior to jackal at first, but have discovered that jackal is generally useful in more situations than jackal. Their speed difference is only on open, flat runs, and even then it’s minimal. Jackal is more maneuverable, works better on inclines, and the shorter, more frequent teleports beat the longer, less frequent jumps in many terrains.

The more you practice the drift, the more zones you can successfully use the beetle.

With jade boost and even moderate elevation griffon is superior to skyscale over even moderate distances. Skyscale is only superior over short distances and when you need to hover.

[Sindust.7059]

1 hour ago, Gibson.4036 said:

Jackal is more maneuverable, works better on inclines, and the shorter, more frequent teleports beat the longer, less frequent jumps in many terrains.

This just tells me that you don't know how to use the Raptor properly, because there is no terrain where Jackal beats the Raptor, especially when verticality is involved or precision is required. But that's irrelevant, because whichever one you pick, its use case is covered by the Skyscale.

2 hours ago, Gibson.4036 said:

The more you practice the drift, the more zones you can successfully use the beetle.

A road with a tight turn does not count as an obstacle to me. But a branch or rock on the floor that completely stops your beetle does, and drifting would not save you there, because if you know the branch is coming, you're better off not drifting at all, and just turning. And if you do not know that it is coming, at that speed, once you see it, it will be too late to set up a drift in such a way that you wouldn't lose all your speed anyway.

2 hours ago, Gibson.4036 said:

With jade boost and even moderate elevation griffon is superior to skyscale over even moderate distances. Skyscale is only superior over short distances and when you need to hover.

It is very rare that between where I am and my destination there are no bstacles that are higher than the place where I start minus boost dive altitude loss, and the destination itself is so much lower than where I start that Griffon could even be used without combining it with the Skyscale in the first place. I often fly up with the Skyscale, use Bond of Vigor to fly up some more, then do 2 barrel rolls to get a bit more altitude, then dismount, use glide booster, and then mount on the Griffon. And all those tricks are just about enough to make up for the altitude loss of boost dive, meaning I still have to be higher than my destination to reach it with the Griffon, and must not have unavoidable obstacles in my way either.

Also all you wrote just shows us that I was right with my statement:

On 7/8/2023 at 8:18 PM, Sindust.7059 said:

you can't deny that it reduces the utility of all mounts that don't give you extreme speed boosts (i.e. beetle and griffon)

Because 2 of your objections were in regard to these 2 specific mounts that I said the skyscale doesn't sufficiently replace, and the 3rd objection isn't even about a comparison with the Skyscale, it's a comparison of Raptor vs. Jackal, which is not the topic here.

[Peter.3901]

As the forum is filled with players who don't have the Skyscale, any opinion against the new expansion will be attacked by the lazy squad. Don't expect a fair discussion here.