Ele Changes For July 18th -- Ele Fixed -- Move On -- Start New Thread For New Ele Suggestions

[Kuma.1503]

25 minutes ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

 

It was T4 or even T5 God Tier OP, relax.

God forbid the Elementalist class was only "on-par" with the other good builds.

Jesus I'd hate to see what you guys would do if you had to deal with your class being middle tiered like 4/5ths of the other classes/builds have to deal with.

This is what I've been talking about with Ele main desensitization. God forbid it gets a real nerf that it deserved more than any other class in GW2 history, and you think it dropping out of T4-5 God Tier OP is destroying the class. Come on now guys. Every other class/build has undergone these exact same kinds of sudden weird nerfs that entirely ruin and change the way build structures function. The rest of us have been dealing with this for years.

I love & respect all of you, but in all seriousness, I do not feel bad for Ele mains right now. God forbid you have to be on an even playing field with other classes. Get used to it.

Just gonna point out that Ele downstate memes were a thing for a reason. In the grand history of the game, Ele's overperformance is a relatively recent phenomenon. 

People have a tendency to forget that when something becomes god tier, just as they forgot how mediocre Engi was during the majority of it's lifespan (in PvE) when Mechanist came out. I get where you're coming from. Powercreep is bad. Ele was... essentially a cheat code in PvP. It needed to be toned down. It was just done so in a very sloppy way where the only goal was to make the build weaker with no regard for good game design. Something which the PvP Forums love to reinforce whenever it happens. 

I'm not trying to pile on the attack here or anything. But the narrative that Ele mains are just so accustomed to being OP that they cry at simply being on par with everyone else is laughable. Considering this class has historically been something you play if you don't mind putting in twice the effort to accomplish the same thing as everyone else. 

Many of us, like myself, have either been mains for a long time, and have experienced the weaker periods along with the strong. Or we play other builds to give context behind these balance changes. And that context allows us to see very clearly that these changes are bad. Even if they bring us towards a desirable goal. 

[Downstate.4697]

Catalyst probably still isn’t bad for side noding , however,  I have a hard time believing it can survive a +1 without investing into full defense. The boon output is low now too so you provide little value to team fights.  Unless someone finds some secret tech, catalyst looks dead for tournaments at least.
 

 

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

*blinks in surprise*

That turnaround time was... very quick. good rebound patch in terms of speed. This is a repeat of "make a thing better, then make it worse than it started", though. 

It appears to have been hit by an axe. Tempering my opinion until I see the effects. This appears to be worse than the initial signet lineup by a pretty sizeable margin at first glance.

We will need a sweetspot for balance here. Not deleted, but not overperforming. 

Edited July 19, 2023 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Sereath.1428]

1 hour ago, Stallic.2397 said:

This is how balance dies... With thunderous applause...

Also explains why I lost all faith in this community. They cry and cry until a class is completely destroyed. It's happened time and time again over the years.

You whiners are destroying your own game. Same goes to the crybabys bumping every thread that suggests their own bias. This complaining online till satisfied is no better than the exploiters who hack, que dodge, and wintrade ingame. 

Don't worry, the wheel will turn and soon enough it'll be your class. 

 

Yup

This keeps happening again and again and again.
Both the devs and players such as ------ who go on a crusade to erase a class for petty revenge, are at fault for this.

These are the kind of patches that made me quit the gamemode for years:
Hefty nerfs to core skills and traits because of a problematic spec having one problematic play-style, until they finally specifically nerf that spec while keeping all the previous nerfs. Forums warriors get to celebrate for 2 days that they erased a spec from competitive play before finding their next target.

Edited July 19, 2023 by XxsdgxX.8109

[Kuma.1503]

10 minutes ago, XxsdgxX.8109 said:

Yup

This keeps happening again and again and again.
Both the devs and players such as ------ who go on a crusade to erase a class for petty revenge, are at fault for this.

These are the kind of patches that made me quit the gamemode for years.

It's why I'm on a haitus as well. I mentioned it before, but it was Anet's attrocious balancing of Engi in response to to the Mechaist drama that caused me to go on an extended haitus. 

I still pop in here to check on things, and I'll queue the occasional PvP match if I've nothing better to do, but the game mode is just not enjoyable to me in it's current state. I get bored after 2-3 games. 

I'm a theorycrafter. I enjoy the process of testing and intratign new builds, and overtime, that process involves a lot less math, testing, and hypotheticals. 

And a lot more scenarios where you look at a group of traits. Ignore the 2 that have been nerfed into the dirt. And pick the least bad option by default. Same goes for weapons and utilities. 

I hate that about the current balance and I would like ANet to balance with greater care. Focus on making builds healthier while maintaining their viability instead of simply smashing anything that overperforms with a sledgehammer. I want to like PvP. I think back on how much fun things used to be and I hope that things can be again, but it's not looking like we're moving in that direction. 

 

Edited July 19, 2023 by Kuma.1503

[Asuran.5469]

46 minutes ago, Kuma.1503 said:

Ele's overperformance is a relatively recent phenomenon.

ele godliness was new but ele was top meta supports and side nodes for long time

[Dreams.3128]

53 minutes ago, XxsdgxX.8109 said:

Yup

This keeps happening again and again and again.
Both the devs and players such as ------ who go on a crusade to erase a class for petty revenge, are at fault for this.

These are the kind of patches that made me quit the gamemode for years:
Hefty nerfs to core skills and traits because of a problematic spec having one problematic play-style, until they finally specifically nerf that spec while keeping all the previous nerfs. Forums warriors get to celebrate for 2 days that they erased a spec from competitive play before finding their next target.

Don't worry Trevor and his lackeys are gonna complain either about Deadeye or Spellbreaker or some other dumb spawn of something else and they can get right back on that hamster wheel thinking they are doing their due diligence for this dead gamemode, while not realizing that both devs and players are this caliber are more blind than a bunch of bats. 

Wintrading, crap balancing, players that think they can balance when they can't. Combine that and you get this dump. Be glad you got out of it while you did. Because this is gonna keep being the same cycle until this game finally goes under. 

[coro.3176]

1 hour ago, Kuma.1503 said:

And a lot more scenarios where you look at a group of traits. Ignore the 2 that have been nerfed into the dirt. And pick the least bad option by default. Same goes for weapons and utilities. 

I hate that about the current balance and I would like ANet to balance with greater care. Focus on making builds healthier while maintaining their viability instead of simply smashing anything that overperforms with a sledgehammer. I want to like PvP. I think back on how much fun things used to be and I hope that things can be again, but it's not looking like we're moving in that direction. 

I think I'd like them to balance with much less care, but much more frequency.

This hotfix was unusual by anet standards. Most of the time, something is left overpowered for 4-6 months. Underpowered things may randomly be tweaked or reworked, but so few of them get touched in any one balance patch, and the patches are SO infrequent, you may as well give up on the thing forever.

[Master Ketsu.4569]

19 minutes ago, Asuran.5469 said:

ele godliness was new but ele was top meta supports and side nodes for long time

That's basically what led to it being busted. Anet shipped a bunch of dartboard buffs to a class that already had meta-tier builds, which almost always has bad results.

As for the changes, it's still cracked but no longer "gamebreaking". Mainly the 1s stab and ICD on WIS means that cata can no longer permastab so easily by chaining auras with combo spam and signet abuse. This makes it significantly less kittenous to fight since you can actually stop it from freecasting. Still overperforming in the hands of any semi-competent ele though.

 

 

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

29 minutes ago, Dreams.3128 said:

Don't worry Trevor and his lackeys are gonna complain either about Deadeye or Spellbreaker or some other dumb spawn of something else and they can get right back on that hamster wheel thinking they are doing their due diligence for this dead gamemode

Bro you can look back through my forum history and clearly see that 90% of my content is directly complaining about win trading, hack use, and bad match making in general.

For me to actually complain about a class, it has to be really really busted, like God Tier stupid busted, and that was the case with Ele.

As of now, I'm quite content after stepping into the balance after tonight's balance patch.

Unless they sudden buff something else and make it God Tier, I have no complaints right now.

[Avead.5760]

8 minutes ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

Bro you can look back through my forum history and clearly see that 90% of my content is directly complaining about win trading, hack use, and bad match making in general.

For me to actually complain about a class, it has to be really really busted, like God Tier stupid busted, and that was the case with Ele.

As of now, I'm quite content after stepping into the balance after tonight's balance patch.

Unless they sudden buff something else and make it God Tier, I have no complaints right now.

Of course you don't have any complaints after the whole written in stone fiasco.. freaking biased hypocrites..

[Burnfall.9573]

"PvP Only"   -  Excluding WvW

It seemed that Anet was making a change in the right direction with July 18 Balance changes by including WvW----PvP+WvW changes..updates--

Anet knowing well that WvW being the most impactful game mode in Guild Wars 2....is back again, treating WvW Community like the  'sc*m' of Guild Wars 2 by excluding WvW

Anet Contempt Dumping to make to The WvW Community feel hopeless, rejected, disgust, excluded, helpless and making us be prone to brokenness...is TOXIC 

 

ANET, ONCE AGAIN...YOU REJECTED THE WVW COMMUNUITY FAR TO LONG...YOU CONDITIONED THE WVW COMMUNITY FAR TOO LONG. IN ON  JULY 18, 2023, IT SEEMED THAT YOU HAD A CHANGE OF HEART BY INCLUDING WVW WITH THE PATCHES UPDATES..

WITH TODAY UPDATE, YOU ONCE AGAIN CHOSE TO RETURN TO YOUR OLD WAYS BY TREATING THE WVW COMMUNITY LIKE TRASH.

SHAME  ON YOU!! 

Edited July 20, 2023 by Burnfall.9573

[UNOwen.7132]

On 7/19/2023 at 12:02 AM, Leonidrex.5649 said:

you had to be delusional to think +300% dmg trait was intended and not someone fat fingering.

Oh sure, it was definitely overtuned. But at 10% its worthless. I was expecting them to nerf it down to 100%, that would probably make it a viable option without making it overtuned, but at +10%? Thats like 0.05 scaling damage. Thats so bad.

[Kuma.1503]

1 hour ago, coro.3176 said:

I think I'd like them to balance with much less care, but much more frequency.

This hotfix was unusual by anet standards. Most of the time, something is left overpowered for 4-6 months. Underpowered things may randomly be tweaked or reworked, but so few of them get touched in any one balance patch, and the patches are SO infrequent, you may as well give up on the thing forever.

I'd be okay with sledgehammer balance if they took a 2nd pass on these things more often. Fix the things they break after they've gathered more data and feedback. 

Anet very rarely does that unfortunately. 

 

[Waffles.5632]

Thank the heavens, CMC Cata is nerfed. 👼

[Burnfall.9573]

39 minutes ago, Waffles.5632 said:

Thank the heavens, CMC Cata is nerfed. 👼

 

Bad Design, "If Foundations Are Not Designed Properly, Failures Will Continue To Occur No Matter What!!"

Anet still hasn't learned and will keep learning the hard way; You Can Not Band Aid Fix Bad Design 

Edited July 20, 2023 by Burnfall.9573

[Leonidrex.5649]

1 hour ago, UNOwen.7132 said:

Oh sure, it was definitely overtuned. But at 10% its worthless. I was expecting them to nerf it down to 100%, that would probably make it a viable option without making it overtuned, but at +10%? Thats like 0.05 scaling damage. Thats so bad.

you dont take it for the damage, you take it for extra skills it gives

[TrollingDemigod.3041]

2 hours ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

Bro you can look back through my forum history and clearly see that 90% of my content is directly complaining about win trading, hack use, and bad match making in general.

For me to actually complain about a class, it has to be really really busted, like God Tier stupid busted, and that was the case with Ele.

As of now, I'm quite content after stepping into the balance after tonight's balance patch.

Unless they sudden buff something else and make it God Tier, I have no complaints right now.

If I'm not wrong you were defending an evasion in middle of AA chain on Rangers GS, no? Like "it was skillful and timing" or some other gibberish, either you or some other Ranger main.
Also you're very biased toward your own class a bit too much, I still have not seen any nerf posts about busted utility + trait combos your class has from you yet, why is that?
You write all these essays full of nothing like for some middle-school exams without substance about everything beside root problems, it's annoying honestly. You know what Catalyst needed most? Full rework, not buffs or nerfs, just a full rework from scratch because it's kitten bad on many levels and it's carried by numbers and not actual player skill.
I really don't get you guys, people complain about no content in PvP then A-net added raid-boss via Catalyst and then you complained about it being too strong. It's so difficult to please PvP players these days.
Anyways, to the main problem at hand:
What do I need to delete teef class from the game? I've seen numerous topics about how busted stealth is, yet there was no action yet. Do I need to do some rain dance or send some e-mails? How do I accomplish that? You guys somehow managed to delete Eles (again) so I'm curious, was it essays?

[Bazsi.2734]

25 second ICD for WiS...  as happy as I am that cata is getting utterly destroyed, could we have at least a semblance of reason in these patches?
Nobody asked for auras on signets, yet here we are... and now that it has proven to be a problem(which was obvious to anyone just by reading the patch notes of the previous release), it's effectively disabled with a 25 second ICD. The mechanic that's only really important in PvP... is disabled in PvP.

Like... cata is mid now, which is great but...  this whole situation could have been avoided so easily just by doing nothing! It was already overperforming when you gave it extra auras and combos and.... what the f*ck is going on with the balance team?
 

[Sigmoid.7082]

I just hope certain people keep the same energy when the shoe is on the other foot. 

[Sahne.6950]

9 hours ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

 "make a thing better, then make it worse than it started"

This appears to be worse than the initial signet lineup by a pretty sizeable margin at first glance.

Ding Ding Ding!  this is the winner!  They turned something from "useable" to "godmode" to "your literally trolling if you still run signets" in under 1 month.

Healskill 20 -> 30 second CD

Firesignet 12->15 second CD

Earthsignet 15 -> 25 second CD

Watersignet 15-> 30 second CD .   <- also effectiveness nerfed big time

 

OHH and what is this.....  as if i didnt see it coming....

Written in Stone: This trait now has a 25-second internal cooldown when granting an aura in PvP only.

 

They buff a trait......  nerf all the utilityskill associated with it.....  and then they nerf the trait into complete uselessness.... and to top it all of, they make it unpredictable. Because it will trigger on random signets.... unless you count to 25 everytime, there is no way for you to tell when the aura will procc. And the Auras that do procc have half the duration of normal auras....... HOORAY! 

You are basicly taking a Greatmastertrait for a 2 second Forstaura every 25 seconds..... kitten THATS A GOOD GREATMASTERTRAIT!

 

And when you think it cant get any worse... they basicly remove the burn from Fireattunement...labeling it as "bugfixes".

• Flamestrike: Reduced initial burning duration from 1.5 seconds to 1 second and the secondary burning duration from 2.5 seconds to 1.5 seconds in PvP and WvW.
• Flamestrike: The first strike of this skill no longer inflicts burning in PvP only. Reduced the secondary burning duration from 1.5 seconds to 1 second in PvP only.
• Dragon's Tooth: Reduced burning duration from 10 seconds to 5 seconds in PvP only.

 

Flamestrike from one burn for 1.5 and a second burn for 2.5......   to a single 1 second burn...  Dtooth burn cut in half...

No one can be happy about that....   They are butchering Core things because Cata was overperforming..... again...  

They butchered FA Weaver, they butchered signet Tempest, and they butchered Staffsignet......   because of cata....   hooray....  Cata will go back to FA or hammer... and the other ele builds cease to exist.   

 

Instead of just reverting their WiS change... they butcher numerous builds, just because they cant admit they made a mistake. Reverting the WiS was all it needed to bring signets back in line...but nope... they nerf the signets... realize that that wasnt enough... and then they completly gut WiS, making it worse than before, but instead of reverting the signet nerfs... they nerf them EVEN MORE.

 

The second they announced the WiS change, everyone said:  "this will backfire! The WiS change is wayy to much! They are gonna nerf the signets into oblivion...." because they do it EVERY. DUCKING.TIME.

....and here we are....    double the CD on the signets, nerfed effectiveness and with a completly useless and inconsistent traitline to back it up.

Whoever wants to compliment them for that doesnt understand what happened...  It was a nerf for signetcata... yeah... thanks anet... but the collateral damage and stupidity how to approach these nerfs is unbelievable.   And everyone saw it coming by a mile. The simple solution would be to... well... just revert the WiS Change... but nope... Anet butchered  numerous offmetabuilds and essentially everything that tries to use a sceptre (except for cata ofc).

 

And all of that, because "someone" at AnetHQ thought Auras on Signets was a good idea, altho we ALL have been SCREAMING that its dumb af.

imma quit!  this incompetence is just too much for me.

bye.

Edited July 20, 2023 by Sahne.6950

[asket.5674]

1 hour ago, Sahne.6950 said:

Ding Ding Ding!  this is the winner!

Healskill 20 -> 30 second CD

Firesignet 12->15 second CD

Earthsignet 15 -> 25 second CD

Watersignet 15-> 30 second CD .   <- also effectiveness nerfed big time

 

OHH and what is this.....  as if i didnt see it coming....

Written in Stone: This trait now has a 25-second internal cooldown when granting an aura in PvP only.

 

They buff a trait......  nerf all the utilityskill associated with it.....  and then they nerf the trait into complete uselessness.... and to top it all of, they make it unpredictable. Because it will trigger on random signets.... unless you count to 25 everytime, there is no way for you to tell when the aura will procc. And the Auras that do procc have half the duration of normal auras....... HOORAY! 

You are basicly taking a Greatmastertrait for a 2 second Forstaura every 25 seconds..... kitten THATS A GOOD GREATMASTERTRAIT!

 

And when you think it cant get any worse... they basicly remove the burn from Fireattunement...labeling it as "bugfixes".

• Flamestrike: Reduced initial burning duration from 1.5 seconds to 1 second and the secondary burning duration from 2.5 seconds to 1.5 seconds in PvP and WvW.
• Flamestrike: The first strike of this skill no longer inflicts burning in PvP only. Reduced the secondary burning duration from 1.5 seconds to 1 second in PvP only.
• Dragon's Tooth: Reduced burning duration from 10 seconds to 5 seconds in PvP only.

 

Flamestrike from one burn for 1.5 and a second burn for 2.5......   to a single 1 second burn...  Dtooth burn cut in half...

No one can be happy about that....   They are butchering Core things because Cata was overperforming..... again...  

They butchered FA Weaver, they butchered signet Tempest, and they butchered Staffsignet......   because of cata....   hooray....  Cata will go back to FA or hammer... and the other ele builds cease to exist.   

 

Instead of just reverting their WiS change... they butcher numerous builds, just because they cant admit they made a mistake. Reverting the WiS was all it needed to bring signets back in line...but nope... they nerf the signets... realize that that wasnt enough... and then they completly gut WiS, making it worse than before, but instead of reverting the signet nerfs... they nerf them EVEN MORE.

 

The second they announced the WiS change, everyone said:  "this will backfire! The WiS change is wayy to much! They are gonna nerf the signets into oblivion...." because they do it EVERY. DUCKING.TIME.

....and here we are....    double the CD on the signets, nerfed effectiveness and with a completly useless and inconsistent traitline to back it up.

Whoever wants to compliment them for that doesnt understand what happened...  It was a nerf for signetcata... yeah... thanks anet... but the collateral damage and stupidity how to approach these nerfs is unbelievable.   And everyone saw it coming by a mile. The simple solution would be to... well... just revert the WiS Change... but nope... Anet butchered  numerous offmetabuilds and essentially everything that tries to use a sceptre (except for cata ofc).

 

And all of that, because "someone" at AnetHQ thought Auras on Signets was a good idea, altho we ALL have been SCREAMING that its dumb af.

imma quit!  this incompetence is just too much for me.

bye.

I feel you, i dont know why they dont wanna touch cata properly and cripple core ele and ever other elite spec. Cata is still top of the notch, wait for august to be kitten by sword catas. The solutions were so obvious:

-Remove stab from staunch auras and replace it with something else. (Regeneration, vigor, resistance?)

-Longer cd on epitome. 15sec?

-remove might from energized elements and vicious empowerment 

-Reduce empowering auras to 1%

Pro Tipp: don’t change everything at once, start at the top and work towards bottom if desired level of balance is not reached yet.

But nah, let’s cripple the only competitive viable weapon ele has instead.

[Greyrat.2378]

It's interesting how they introduce new problem that can be solved just by reverting the change, but instead they proceed to do some mental gymnastics and nuke everything around it. 😀
I guess it's too hard for them to swallow their pride and admit that WiS change was dumb in first place.

edit: Labelling it as bug fix is a bit questionable as well.
Feels more like rushed decision or plan B in case that the previous nerf would not be enough.

Edited July 20, 2023 by Greyrat.2378

[Arrow Blade of El Elyon.9341]

Ele needs to be nerfed in WvW alongside sPvP.

 

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

8 hours ago, TrollingDemigod.3041 said:

If I'm not wrong you were defending an evasion in middle of AA chain on Rangers GS, no? Like "it was skillful and timing" or some other gibberish, either you or some other Ranger main.

That was Eurantien. I remember what you're talking about. But that was like 6 years ago dude. Get over it and move on.

8 hours ago, TrollingDemigod.3041 said:

Also you're very biased toward your own class a bit too much, I still have not seen any nerf posts about busted utility + trait combos your class has from you yet, why is that?

I will quite seriously send you $20.00 through paypal if you can find a thread where I am biasedly defending Ranger instead of pointing out what needed to be nerfed on Untamed, that Druid is actually a secret meta, and that Soulbeast is actually one of the best 1v1 classes in the game.

G'luck.

8 hours ago, TrollingDemigod.3041 said:

You write all these essays full of nothing like for some middle-school exams without substance

Yeah that's why all my threads get 12k views. I guess I should review my writing skills and their ability to grab attention.

8 hours ago, TrollingDemigod.3041 said:

What do I need to delete teef class from the game? I've seen numerous topics about how busted stealth is, yet there was no action yet. Do I need to do some rain dance or send some e-mails? How do I accomplish that? You guys somehow managed to delete Eles (again) so I'm curious, was it essays?

1. If anything ever exposed l2p issues, it was complaining about Thief.
2. My friend, performing magical rituals will accomplish nothing. But what can get something done, is when the community bans together and voices unprecedented unanimously agreed upon feedback about some problem in the game that needs to be changed. <- This is what has happened here, no more, and no less. If you are so concerned with Thief, drop the hooga booga and write a nice thread about it. If you build it, they will come and support it! Well.. that is.. if anyone agrees with what you've posted. Sometimes you just need to admit when you have an outlier opinion that no one else cares about.
3. Ele wasn't deleted my good strong bro. It was brought from God Tier down to Realistic Tier. Such desensitization from power. It's like when an elite rich person goes and takes a walk through a normal level moderately wealthy suburban area, seriously thinks he's in the ghetto, and gets all scared about it.

Other classes can deal damage to you now. Get used to it.