Anyone else glad they are ditching all the characters?

[Kulvar.1239]

On 7/30/2023 at 7:39 PM, atshadow.8695 said:

They did this? 🤣

It's on top of Yao's wiki page.

After each NK meta event, Yao and Mizuki have a short chat. During whcih Yao will say "I'm Yao—your local, mostly friendly agender engineer."

[Ashantara.8731]

19 hours ago, Pifil.5193 said:

But then what would be in the audio logs they leave for us in lieu of story? 🙄

You know, that is actually a good point! 😄

[Jianyu.7065]

I'm not sure it matters much to me. I like all of the characters in one way or another. For me, it's using any character, old or new, creatively with original concepts and writing. If that isn't being done, it doesnt matter what they come up with or who they throw in there with us.

[Shining One.1635]

On 8/1/2023 at 12:09 AM, DanAlcedo.3281 said:

That may be true but isn't it crazy that, if that topic comes up, it's always the same 2-3 lines? 

People tend to bring up the most commonly encountered examples. These two come up because they occur at the end of a map meta event and during the character story. There were various threads that documented quite a few other lines, but those threads have mysteriously vanished from the forums.

Edited August 2, 2023 by Shining One.1635

[Lairin.4528]

I just figured we'd be getting new companions to revolve around instead of the old cast. It's pretty much how Guild Wars is, I'll certainly never forget about Kormir becoming a God 😅

[Shadowmoon.7986]

I am glad they are ditching kass and jory, those two were made the center of attention since ls2 and stole the spotlight of the real break out characater in LS1, Herotron in the reLS1. It is really telling when your focal characters were so outpreformed by a comic relief, they had to significant reduced herotrons role on the rerelease so it did not steal the show again. Sad that a robot has more emotional depth that those two clowns.

In 2014, it was herotron helping me defeat Scarlet, Jory just got in the way, and Kass was just fan service.

[Endaris.1452]

I feel like Rox got a near-perfect way out with the Olmakhan. Braham should really just have died or got coma'd after Dragonstorm, none wants that guy around and he served his purpose. It would have been a death giving closure to his character and make you think "...well, at least he did SOMETHING" rather than being perpetually frightened that he could pop out whenever in your nightmares.

What I can imagine is that Zojja will act a bit in the FotM Dessa fashion, being kind of our entrance point for the wizards, managing the contact and probably the intel.

So kind of classic asura steering wheel character, rather than someone we will see a lot in instances as an ally. Also slight hope that her character is a bit more mellow and humbled after the Mordremoth experience, kinda like Logan was.

[babana.7521]

On 7/31/2023 at 1:25 AM, Alsandar.7420 said:

I hope they develop some major characters that stick around for years. Joko, Bal, Anka, etc all gone too quickly.

I want some Sylvanas Thrall Kiljaeden type characters that endure multiple expansions 

Joko has been around for too long, even now he lingers. that guys needs to get eaten, that was one great story.

[Doggie.3184]

On 7/31/2023 at 12:55 PM, Pifil.5193 said:

But then what would be in the audio logs they leave for us in lieu of story? 🙄

I generally dislike Audio Log story telling. I didn't listen to any of Gorrik's and I actually like that character for the most part. Audio logs are just that snooze. It also adds to the "not allowed to skip dialogue" problem. 

Fallout is one of the few games it works well in and they're usually a hidden part of exploration most of the time. But when it's part of the main story it's so bad, like Metal Gear Solid 5 was basically ruined by moving majority of it's story to them. I disliked it in the recent Diablo 4 too, having to see plot exposition dumps through Lilith petals that were basically cheaply disguised Audio Logs. 

[Omega.6801]

Just now, Doggie.3184 said:

I generally dislike Audio Log story telling. I didn't listen to any of Gorrik's and I actually like that character for the most part. Audio logs are just that snooze. It also adds to the "not allowed to skip dialogue" problem. 

Fallout is one of the few games it works well in and they're usually a hidden part of exploration most of the time. But when it's part of the main story it's so bad, like Metal Gear Solid 5 was basically ruined by moving majority of it's story to them. I disliked it in the recent Diablo 4 too, having to see plot exposition dumps through Lilith petals that were basically cheaply disguised Audio Logs. 

Audio Logs are slightly more convenient text dumps. They are "tell not show" and as such not a very interesting way of telling a story in a mostly visual medium.

[Doggie.3184]

11 hours ago, Omega.6801 said:

Audio Logs are slightly more convenient text dumps. They are "tell not show" and as such not a very interesting way of telling a story in a mostly visual medium.

I find them less convenient than say; finding a short but interesting note you can read Resident Evil 4, and get back to the fun gameplay quickly. Unless there's a way to scroll through the Audio Log and/or the text is provided at same time like in Alan Wake with ability to skip.

Edited August 3, 2023 by Doggie.3184

[pengefinchess.8452]

On 8/1/2023 at 7:16 AM, Astralporing.1957 said:

It's the opposite. If those lines were fine and people would just be exagerrating, it wouldn't be the exact same ones every time. They get picked, because they are that bad. That was just bad writing. I mean, i know what writers wanted to do, and agree with the general premise, but the exacution was just plain bad. When you're doing social issues stuff, you can't have subtlety of a steam sledgehammer, because you might end with cringe (or, in worst case, an exact opposite result of what you wanted to achieve). And it's not even social issues stuff - it's the general feeling i get from late narrative efforts that for Anet writers we're all just a bunch of kids too dumb to be able to think of anything more complicated on our own. The Gyala second part is practically the same, by the way - an attempt at darker writing that's in theory meant to evoke some feelings from the players, that blows this up by flat out telling us what we should feel instead. I mean, i know it's simpler to do it that way, but the end result is not the same.

Yup the gyala part was aweful… the gorrik recordings at the end of part 1 and defeating the boss by the power of positive memories was just terrible writing.. outside of a midern teen fiction ofc

Edited August 3, 2023 by pengefinchess.8452
Blish

[Kulvar.1239]

skippable audio logs > text logs > unskippable audio logs

Edited August 3, 2023 by Kulvar.1239

[Bealis.6023]

Personally I can't say that I am glad, but maybe curious. Thing is, what is great about recurring/staying characters is that you can see their development in action, various relationships you create with them, there is added dynamic and stakes to the events since people you've gotten to know (or you think you know) are with you. Not to mention that characters are a big part of the worldbuilding itself. Like it is in Bioware classics 🙂

Starting with clean slate can be good with ineresting introductions, but you need to have great storyteling at the same rate, so your investment can grow. And that is a real art. So yeah, curious.

P.S Still sad we didnt get more personal adventures with Caithe for sylvari yet.😪

Edited August 3, 2023 by Bealis.6023

[Dondarrion.2748]

Characters I'm happy to get rid of:

Taimi and Gorrik (lemme pull the solution magically out of my ... again)

Yao (wow, just wow such terrible dialogue...)

"Kasjory" (*hiccup*)

Ka-braham (one dimensional idiot)

Aurene (and Caithe) ("go to sleep!")

Canach ("yeah yeah, I get it now Mr snarky pants - just focus on your enterprises now") 

Snargle (if we're fighting darker demons in sky islands in the wizard's tower, he will not fit in with more slapstick humour...)

Pact mentor trinity or any ghosts ( here's hoping us dealing with emotions leaves all these ghosts laid to rest now)

Characters I'd like to see again:

...

April

Anise perhaps

Doern Velasquez

Maybe some of the Tengu (sky islands, towers, close to DoW... remember that crazy bird from DRMs? :D)

 

[Gibson.4036]

16 hours ago, Dondarrion.2748 said:

Characters I'm happy to get rid of:

Taimi and Gorrik (lemme pull the solution magically out of my ... again)

Yao (wow, just wow such terrible dialogue...)

"Kasjory" (*hiccup*)

Ka-braham (one dimensional idiot)

Aurene (and Caithe) ("go to sleep!")

Canach ("yeah yeah, I get it now Mr snarky pants - just focus on your enterprises now") 

Snargle (if we're fighting darker demons in sky islands in the wizard's tower, he will not fit in with more slapstick humour...)

Pact mentor trinity or any ghosts ( here's hoping us dealing with emotions leaves all these ghosts laid to rest now)

Characters I'd like to see again:

...

April

Anise perhaps

Doern Velasquez

Maybe some of the Tengu (sky islands, towers, close to DoW... remember that crazy bird from DRMs? :D)

 

Just replayed LW3 with my daughter, and in the scenes where we got both Anise and Livia, I was cringing at their twin Julie Newmar cat woman clown show.

No shade on Julie Newmar. Her cat woman was supposed to be campy.

[Debesyla.7102]

On 7/30/2023 at 8:25 PM, Alsandar.7420 said:

I hope they develop some major characters that stick around for years. Joko, Bal, Anka, etc all gone too quickly.

I want some Sylvanas Thrall Kiljaeden type characters that endure multiple expansions 

Yes, Sylvanas is the perfect character that was totally not butchered by writers. Thrall and Kiljaeden weren't written as complete bookahs either. Yes. 🙃

[Dondarrion.2748]

54 minutes ago, Gibson.4036 said:

Just replayed LW3 with my daughter, and in the scenes where we got both Anise and Livia, I was cringing at their twin Julie Newmar cat woman clown show.

No shade on Julie Newmar. Her cat woman was supposed to be campy.

Yes, I didn't include Livia/Kerida due to LS3 and that's not why I'd like to see more of Anise, but I was thinking rather for the entire Mesmer Collective and the Wizard "enclave?", she might be involved in this too?

[garpu.6210]

Taimi > all.  But, yeah, it's time for something new.  The story content we've had has really been tying up loose ends in GW1, and the characters feel like an extension of it, as well.

[Quench.7091]

I like the idea of our character getting isolated, but I kind of wonder how long they'll keep to it. They tend to alienate us to some extent every start of an expansion.

• HoT: Pact airship crashed. Team scattered. Can't trust Sylvari.
• PoF: We landed with a team of select people and got isolated from a cave collapsing. Could access comms if we stood upon elevated locations.
• EoD: Got locked in a jail cell with Gorrik, after being sent through a rift with the Aetherblade. Lost access to long-distance comms and Asuran gateways.

I wonder if being alone will go beyond the first few chapters.

[NotTooFoolish.7412]

On 7/30/2023 at 10:52 PM, HnRkLnXqZ.1870 said:

My bets for the new 'team' are:

I think always keeping Commander in the company of the same characters is a mistake. NPCs should live their own lives between our epic adventures, we shouldn't try to build avengers for every single threat that we face. Maybe leaving the team build behind, we could actually have some side stories involving the NPCs doing their own thing when they are not dragged into a great conflict with us.
Caithe on a spy mission trying to uncover some scheme.
Logan dealing with some minor assault on Kryta.
Then they can levarage some of that seemingly random stuff to throw us into something bigger down the road. We see what the NPCs are up to, they are not all up in our face all the time (so we don't get a chance to actually start to hate them *looking at you Taimi, Braham AND Aurene*), we still get to see some characters we know and we don't feel immediately disconnected from the stories whenever the jump out with some huge threat in a random part of the world.

[ifelldown.5426]

I hated the old characters. I agree with other posts I've seen here . The writing for the stories was the biggest issue though. What the characters were was not an issue but the dialog and ridiculous writer decisions made about the characters' actions was always maddening. There are a lot of games out there with amazing lore and stories. GW2 opted to feel like it was written by a middle school book club where being a very cringey edge-lord was maximum drama.

When Anet ends up trying to force players into the story mode, it only validates the idea that it's writing is lacking. There are some who like story modes and others who never like them. I get the feeling that the story isn't as successful as they like.

It took ten years to get a story that wasn't about a dragon. New map? Dragon. Expansion? Dragon. 

Even so, I don't have high hopes for the newest expansion. It really feels like GW2 is just out of ideas. It's felt that way for a while. I want to like the expansion, but just the fact they are going to story-wall stuff again is enough to put me on the fence about ordering it. The last "expansion" felt like I was robbed.

I would have paid money to have joined Joko and slaughter Tyria by the end of that story. No mercy.

[Ashantara.8731]

On 8/3/2023 at 10:25 PM, Dondarrion.2748 said:

Characters I'd like to see again:

...

Anise perhaps

Maybe some of the Tengu (sky islands, towers, close to DoW... remember that crazy bird from DRMs? :D)

Anise is an arrogant, condescending person who has no respect for the sacrifices the organization she serves has made in the past.

And the annoying tengu from the DRM? Come on now, she was the horrid preview of an even more horrendous design in EoD -- what's with the annoying croaky voices and the new "lab-experiment-gone-wrong" tengu species? Eww.

On 8/3/2023 at 3:41 AM, Omega.6801 said:

Audio Logs are slightly more convenient text dumps. They are "tell not show" and as such not a very interesting way of telling a story in a mostly visual medium.

I agree. It is why I hate the comm device as well -- it annoys the hell out of me. I rather go places and talk to people than have voices contact me with all the solutions to every problem: "*krrhhhh* Commander? Are you there? *krrrhhhh* You won't believe the discovery I made! *kkkrrrrrhhh*"

Edited August 6, 2023 by Ashantara.8731

[Dondarrion.2748]

22 hours ago, Ashantara.8731 said:

Anise is an arrogant, condescending person who has no respect for the sacrifices the organization she serves has made in the past.

And the annoying tengu from the DRM? Come on now, she was the horrid preview of an even more horrendous design in EoD -- what's with the annoying croaky voices and the new "lab-experiment-gone-wrong" tengu species? Eww.

Well, Anise does bring more personality, even if arrogant, to the table and secrecy and room for development. Though I doubt she will feature.

And the Tengu, I don't mind them, I minded the voice artist of the one from the DRM but not really her role, and at one point, I think these mini xpacs will go to DoW, surely they must. And it would not be a long stretch since we're already taking to the skies.

But hey, Anet may just as well introduce new characters too.

[PixelHero.5849]

Honestly, I'm kinda glad.  Not in a "we should never see these characters ever again" kind of way, but in "we need time away from hand-holding simulator" kind of way.

Knock the personal story all you like (and it definitely has its flaws), you did feel like you were making decisions and seeing the outcome of those decisions.  Now, it was incredibly shallow (oh wow, that character I just met 3 minutes ago has died.  I guess I'm supposed to be feeling something?), but it did give the player agency to make decisions.  Early on in the story, the Commander might have had companions on their adventures, but they still called the shots.  Living World seasons 1-3 obviously couldn't continue in the multiple decision path model the personal story did, but we as the player slowly lost that agency we enjoyed, to the point that in modern day we are an irrelevant observer that, other than apparently being good at beating people up, is just a passive observer to the advancement of the story by those around us.  Maybe an important character because we had a dragon that sort of cared about us, I guess, and we were vaguely interested in doing good in the world.

In the early seasons, the companions were unsure of themselves, unsure what was happening in the world.  WE would travel to the Priory to try and understand what was going on, WE would travel to investigate an issue, we felt like we were leading the team through the jungle, and so on.  Now?   "KCHHT.  Commander, we just figured this out.  Go over to the thing ten feet away and press `F`.  KCCHHHT".  It reminds me of the recent God of War game where they put puzzles in the game, but the companion boy *immediately* tells the player how to solve the puzzles.

 

We need less instant solutions from the tech/magic types, and we need a lot less communicator.

 

As for my thoughts on the individual members:

 

Old Crew:

Logan: out of everybody, Logan ought to be around.  The Pact is in a transient state, and what does Logan do?   Honestly, having him come and discuss with the Commander could lead to some interesting development instead of just having him go back to Divinity's Reach and dote on Jennah again.  He should be trying to find his and the Pact's place in the world.

Rytlock: I like Rytlock, he's fun.   Unfortunately, he's rather busy at the moment.

Zojja: Hopefully she won't just order us around and we still get to make our own decisions.  Glad she's back though, as long as it's more Asura Personal Story style than "WAAAHH!  SNAAAAAF" style.

Caithe is perhaps the most annoying and utterly irrelevant character in the game.  Annoying because she's *constantly* emotionally vulnerable, whiney, and everything she's ever accomplished (post release) is either negative, or made utterly irrelevant.  She knew about Sylvari true nature, and did nothing.  But it's okay, she was confused.  She stole the egg, and almost gave it to Mordy.  It's okay, we instantly forgive her and just have Rox watch her (even potentially taking her to fight Mordy.  "NO, you've clearly demonstrated that you might falter.  Stay away from me, you crazy plant lady").  Even becoming the voice of Aurene... for the next story segment to make that irrelevant by teaching Aurene to talk for herself.  Caithe has just tailed around screaming for attention and for somebody to *please* pay attention to her, and yet the writers won't let her actually grow in any meaningful way.

New Crew:

Taimi/Gorrick:  Taimi is a fun character, particularly when she was younger, dealing with Phlunt and unsure of herself.  Now, she and Gorrik solve every problem before the commander can even begin to investigate.  Did the commander try and fail to fight the demon in Gyala?  Nope, they sat on the sidelines while Gorrik came up with a solution.  This is part of the problem.  They aren't bad characters, players are just tired of them solving every problem before we get to.

Braham.... Braham is an idiot.  He starts out as a loveable idiot, even one of my favorites.  Then he goes through his angst period where you hate him and then starts to redeem himself.  They were really going for character growth there, and props for that.  Still hate him in those story chapters, but at least they tried to grow the character and give more depth to him.  However, he should either be dead or still corrupted at this point.  Dragon corruption has almost *never* been reversed.  He also has the spirits of the wild in his head, right?  Should be dealing with that.  But at least he tends to let us think for ourselves.

Rox:  Appears to have a vested personal interest in not babysitting everyone else.  "Rox, can you watch Braham?"  "Rox, can you watch Logan/Zojja?"  "Rox, can you watch Caithe?"  "Rox, can you watch... "   If that's the only character development they want to do on her, at least she finally came to her senses.

Marjory/Kas: Largely uninteresting and static characters that are better than most at not instantly swooping in to save the Commander from having to think longer than five seconds about what to do, which is nice.    However, they seem to be busy with unrelated things right now.  And unless one of them were to suddenly die, I'm not sure how the writers would bring them back in a major way.

Canach: I'm not sure how you could develop his character more, but at least the only problems he seems to be trotted out to remove is the physical obstacle kind.  If they bring him back, I hope it is for longer than ten minutes to blow up something.  Give him air.  His bickering with Rytlock was some of the highlights of the endless desert.

Rama:  Honestly, Rama is great.  Good humor and voice lines, and he's got a good balance of not having tech/magic solutions to every problem, and yet can still offer something  "Hmm... what's that Commander?   You know.. that sounds familiar.  I know a guy who might know more about that..."   I wish he hadn't been the magical solution with the whole Kurzick rune thing, but it gives him more depth in the future, I suppose.

 

GW2 needs the player driving the investigation and discovery of solutions, and less "sit around and let tech/magic companions solve every problem".   Characters like Rama, that might have hidden backstory that can be brought forward is an excellent way of advancing the plot by allowing the player to investigate and devise the solution (even if it's totally scripted, of course) due to their own actions and conversations.  It's such a small and subtle difference, but it makes a huge difference to how the player feels as they experience the story.

 

***EDIT*

Oops, forgot Yao.  Perhaps because he is that forgettable.  It genuinely took me a solid ten minutes to figure out who I had just invited adventuring the first time I reached the end of EOD.  The commander appears to have invited Yao along purely based on that audacious of an introduction.  Seriously, have you ever heard anyone introduce themselves that way?  I am slightly concerned, as the person who was in charge of the narrative design of New Kaineng is now the narrative designer for SotO.  Which means the person most likely to have written that line and thought "that sounds like natural conversation" is the person in charge of the entire narrative development of the expansion. 

Hopefully with more time, resources and staff to help smooth out the dialogue.

Edited August 8, 2023 by PixelHero.5849