In a future update...

[Donari.5237]

7 hours ago, SpyderArachnid.5619 said:

Jeez, and that's supposed to be an expansion worth of content? Seems like less content than a LW update.

I read about the Rifts, and they sound just like invasions that we already have. Rift opens, fight some enemies, once the waves are done, big boss comes out and kill him to seal the rift. It's very similar to what we already have right now. This just has the new enemies in it. So, I guess it is recycled content with a fresh coat of paint. Guess if it works, it works.

This expansion seems extremely lacking compared to previous ones.

The blog post does characterize the Rifts as "on demand" which suggests you can trigger them via the mastery whenever your group is ready (and they scale).  Also they give a reward currency to buy various new things.  So they aren't exactly like current invasions.  We'll have to see if they actually feel fun to fight.

[Batalix.2873]

11 hours ago, solzuul.6294 said:

There is some ambiguity in their posts as to which quarterly update brings certain content. Not all masteries and relics are coming on launch. Fractal release, CM strike release, and legendary relic release are unspecified. IIRC new weapon choices, 3rd map, and legendary armor are coming on the 2nd quarterly update which puts it in 2024. 

On launch you get 2 maps + hub, 3 core relics, 2 masteries, 2 strike missions, and weapon master training unlocking elite spec weapons for your base class.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong. 

The inability to commit to a schedule has been a huge problem with this game. What it communicates is that they don't even know their own resources well enough or have a clear enough grasp of the size and state of their projects.

I just watched the FFXIV stream, and they are clockwork like Marvel. Dozens of new content, new features, new updates. All laid out concisely, all with clearly communicated release schedules. They don't deliver 100% of everything on time, and have still put off a few longer term goals, but for the most part they know what they are about, give players extensive roadmaps, and generally ship on time. What they mess up they fix immediately, what they miss or fail on is generally distracted away from by having tons of other things happening.

ANet is abysmal by contrast, and they don't even have the throughput or even the quality that they used to have to weather droughts or underwhelming missteps.

Edited August 2, 2023 by Batalix.2873

[Mistwraithe.3106]

1 hour ago, Batalix.2873 said:

The inability to commit to a schedule has been a huge problem with this game. What it communicates is that they don't even know their own resources well enough or have a clear enough grasp of the size and state of their projects.

So you must be very pleased by Anet's current annual expansion plans then?

Seems like a decent attempt to put in place a regular schedule while also arranging the funding (through annual expansion sales) to pay for the development to keep with the schedule.

[Batalix.2873]

9 minutes ago, Mistwraithe.3106 said:

So you must be very pleased by Anet's current annual expansion plans then?

Seems like a decent attempt to put in place a regular schedule while also arranging the funding (through annual expansion sales) to pay for the development to keep with the schedule.

No I'm not? In fact you seem determined to read something into my post that was abjectly never there.

I am quite overtly criticizing the fact that even under this new paradigm, they are avoiding committing to anything resembling a solid timeframe. There is a world of difference between adopting a new release schedule (hardly different from the past few years we have had of desparate switch-ups and vague, false hype), versus actually having the competence and confidence to state precisely what that schedule should be looking like.

So far the only hard data point we have, and that they are committed to meeting, is SotO's release date. There are no promises of which content will be accessible on release versus which will be delayed for other quarterly patches, none of which have even an estimated release date. This is, functionally, no different than the year of alternating silence and sporadic, ambush patches we got after EoD released.

Just telling us we are supposed to get things isn't enough. We know well enough by now that when ANet doesn't give details, that results in a lot of "coming soons" that release delayed after months of radio silence, "working on its" that turn into years in limbo, "we won't tell you yets" that turn into far smaller and more rushed efforts than they initially let on, and "maybes" that were just lip service distracting away from nevers.

It's an exploitative business model, through and through. They have been selling us on vague promises of more to come since they derailed IBS, and precisely nothing they have dropped has delivered on its own merits. Everything has been limping along pointing at the thing on the horizon, and most of the times the horizon is kinda sucky and dropped unceremoniously after the game has lost momentum.

[Linken.6345]

20 minutes ago, Batalix.2873 said:

No I'm not? In fact you seem determined to read something into my post that was abjectly never there.

I am quite overtly criticizing the fact that even under this new paradigm, they are avoiding committing to anything resembling a solid timeframe. There is a world of difference between adopting a new release schedule (hardly different from the past few years we have had of desparate switch-ups and vague, false hype), versus actually having the competence and confidence to state precisely what that schedule should be looking like.

So far the only hard data point we have, and that they are committed to meeting, is SotO's release date. There are no promises of which content will be accessible on release versus which will be delayed for other quarterly patches, none of which have even an estimated release date. This is, functionally, no different than the year of alternating silence and sporadic, ambush patches we got after EoD released.

Just telling us we are supposed to get things isn't enough. We know well enough by now that when ANet doesn't give details, that results in a lot of "coming soons" that release delayed after months of radio silence, "working on its" that turn into years in limbo, "we won't tell you yets" that turn into far smaller and more rushed efforts than they initially let on, and "maybes" that were just lip service distracting away from nevers.

It's an exploitative business model, through and through. They have been selling us on vague promises of more to come since they derailed IBS, and precisely nothing they have dropped has delivered on its own merits. Everything has been limping along pointing at the thing on the horizon, and most of the times the horizon is kinda sucky and dropped unceremoniously after the game has lost momentum.

Well dident they say that they were finishing  the touches on last expansion map awhile ago so they should be able to give us abit of an updated roadmap.

[Dante.1508]

12 hours ago, Ashantara.8731 said:

As for Rift events, they already have been in the game for years, so I assume this will be mostly a recycling of the mechanic:

https://dulfyreborn.net/achievements/side-stories/current-events/gw2-helpful-hero-current-events-and-riftstalker-weapons-guide.html

They were such a pain in the butt those things..

Solo they were a death sentence..

Newbies would get massacred..

No loot..

[Zok.4956]

15 hours ago, SpyderArachnid.5619 said:

What are we paying for? I really dislike when we are only paying for 1/4th of the content on release, and then have to wait months for the rest of the content.
(...)
Please tell me I am misreading something, and Anet is not releasing a tiny update and calling it an expansion.

That's acutally what you are paying for. You pre-purchase a smaller expansion (less content than previous expansions), with some of that content releasing in a couple of weeks and the rest over a 12-month period. So Anet gets the money in advance that they need to create the content for the next 12 months. And if not enough is sold, Anet can invest less money in the future content and the future content updates of this expansion will be smaller. Almost like an early access game.

15 hours ago, SpyderArachnid.5619 said:

Expansions should be packed to the brim with tons of features and new content. 

Yes, they should. And because of that I really liked HoT and PoF and had a lot of fun with them. But I think those "golden days" are over and the new strategy is no longer to create/try something extraordinary but just "good enough". Nevertheless, I hope that I will be positively surprised with SotO and will at least have fun in the new maps.

 

[Zok.4956]

7 hours ago, Batalix.2873 said:

So far the only hard data point we have, and that they are committed to meeting, is SotO's release date. There are no promises of which content will be accessible on release versus which will be delayed for other quarterly patches, none of which have even an estimated release date.

They have committed (in a way) that the content of this mini-expansion will be released within 12 months, because that is when the next mini-expansion will be released.

[MarkoGold.7126]

On 6/29/2023 at 8:18 PM, Fifth.8169 said:

The Cache keepers for South Meta on Drizzlewood Coast are defeated extremely quickly upon spawning. I would like to suggest adding an invulnerability buff to the cache Keepers for at least 10 seconds upon spawning.  The reason is that by the time average players arrives the Cache Keeper is already at 25% health and many players have not had a chance to give it a whack to be awarded.  This change would make the map more enjoyable to play and support fair play/ fair opportunity for all players.  The current situation has players frantically mashing every buttons on there mounts and still barely arriving to the cache keeper before it is defeated. Many simply give up and sit idle in the camp; it is quite discouraging to race to the cache keeper only to find that it has been defeated in mere seconds.  between spawning and being defeated, I would say each cache keeper is only up for no more than 20-30 seconds in TOTAL... 

 

On 7/1/2023 at 7:55 AM, soul.9651 said:

Ofc it would, but mostly on multiboxing farm accounts. Idk if you can call them "players" tho when those accounts exist only for one purpose which isnt rly a gameplay..

 

23 hours ago, SpyderArachnid.5619 said:

So, what exactly are we paying for on release for this expansion?

It seems like 3/4ths of the content is coming "in a future update". So, what exactly is in release then? What are we paying for? I really dislike when we are only paying for 1/4th of the content on release, and then have to wait months for the rest of the content. It's like being drip-fed content, which is a cheap tactic.

Expansions should be packed to the brim with tons of features and new content. Enough to make you feel like you are getting your money's worth. This... this feels like a small update to the game. I've been combing through all the release notes and blogs, trying to find out what exactly is coming on release, but it seems like almost everything is not coming till a later date after release, with only a tiny bit of actual content coming on release.

Please tell me I am misreading something, and Anet is not releasing a tiny update and calling it an expansion.

 

EDIT: Bah I should of searched more. Didn't realize this topic was already posted. My bad.

They should call it what it is a micro dlc.

[Alin.2468]

31 minutes ago, MarkoGold.7126 said:

They should call it what it is a micro dlc.

It is more like a tiny part of a micro dlc, because we do not know exactly how big this micro dlc is, and what tiny part of it we get at the actual release.

[Gibson.4036]

17 hours ago, Batalix.2873 said:

 

I just watched the FFXIV stream, and they are clockwork like Marvel.

Like Marvel used to be?

[Batalix.2873]

On 8/2/2023 at 2:05 PM, Gibson.4036 said:

Like Marvel used to be?

Eh is or was, doesn't matter much to me. Disney/Marvel are still a very appropriate point of comparison. Even if it was cheap, nonchallenging spectacle (much like FFXIV), they put a lot of it out, and at a regular pace. And it worked for a long time.

Edited August 4, 2023 by Batalix.2873

[Batalix.2873]

16 hours ago, Zok.4956 said:

They have committed (in a way) that the content of this mini-expansion will be released within 12 months, because that is when the next mini-expansion will be released.

Yes, that's technically correct.

But since they haven't even announced the next expac--or that there even will actually be a next expac, let alone a release date--whether this release schedule sticks enough to hold them to that 12 month window is still very much up in the air.

In all likelihood, they could announce in 6-9 months that the release schedule will be stretched out and the next expac released later. And then we will be back to the same unaccountable, sporadic news cycle again.

Edited August 3, 2023 by Batalix.2873

[voltaicbore.8012]

7 hours ago, Batalix.2873 said:

And then we will be back to the same unaccountable, sporadic news cycle again.

All with the added benefit (for Anet) that they've managed to lower the bar for release quality.

I think the most positive thing I can say at this point is, I sincerely wish to be proven wrong.

[Batalix.2873]

16 hours ago, voltaicbore.8012 said:

All with the added benefit (for Anet) that they've managed to lower the bar for release quality.

I think the most positive thing I can say at this point is, I sincerely wish to be proven wrong.

I think it's very sad commentary when any game hits a point where players are weighing their likelihood of buying an expansion based on whether it hits enough minimal features they would want to add to their experience.

Gone are the GW2 days when people bought expansions just for being holistically cool and building on multiple things people enjoyed about the game. Now, at least for me, it's sifting through a shortlist of halfhearted additions, desperately hoping at least *one* thing might feel worth the investment.

[Gibson.4036]

On 8/3/2023 at 11:52 PM, Batalix.2873 said:

I think it's very sad commentary when any game hits a point where players are weighing their likelihood of buying an expansion based on whether it hits enough minimal features they would want to add to their experience.

Gone are the GW2 days when people bought expansions just for being holistically cool and building on multiple things people enjoyed about the game. Now, at least for me, it's sifting through a shortlist of halfhearted additions, desperately hoping at least *one* thing might feel worth the investment.

I’ve got two things that justified my $25 this time.

1. Griffon updraft

2. My kids and I play GW2 together, and this will give us more to continue doing. I’m on the watch for other games we can play, but it’s hard these days to find  multiplayer rpgs without mature content we want to avoid.

It is sad that the list is so short.

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

On 8/2/2023 at 9:58 AM, Zok.4956 said:

That's acutally what you are paying for. You pre-purchase a smaller expansion (less content than previous expansions), with some of that content releasing in a couple of weeks and the rest over a 12-month period. So Anet gets the money in advance that they need to create the content for the next 12 months. And if not enough is sold, Anet can invest less money in the future content and the future content updates of this expansion will be smaller. Almost like an early access game.

Yes, they should. And because of that I really liked HoT and PoF and had a lot of fun with them. But I think those "golden days" are over and the new strategy is no longer to create/try something extraordinary but just "good enough". Nevertheless, I hope that I will be positively surprised with SotO and will at least have fun in the new maps.

 

You're paying for promises. Promises, not only ANet's but especially ANet's should be taken lightly.
On release - easy attainable BiS that will last forever, smartphone app to monitor and play TP, smartphone app to monitor WvW and to chat with people, tons of minigames - polymock, bar fights and so on. 
They could change their heads mid year and say "let's wrap this up and change the plan again".

[Ruisenior.6342]

As much as i used to like this game that expansion seems lacking alot, not to mention that at release it seems a quarter expansion at best at a price tag of almost a full expansion. I'll wait till the full release and see what they bring to the table because I'm expecting the worst... I hope Anet proves me wrong.

I missed gw1 since i joined the mmorpg scene at 2010 with Aion so for me it seems to be the right time to enjoy this game that people calls  'amazing' and maybe later come to gw2 if they manage to adress the mess that's become gw2.

Edited August 5, 2023 by Ruisenior.6342

[Zephire.8049]

Being told that we'll get what we buy at a future date is one of the reasons I haven't bought SotO or even logged into the game recently. Having to take it on faith that a company which has routinely changed direction, cancelled aspects of GW2, and hasn't seemed to have thought things through (e.g. what happens with legendary runes) that they'll deliver what they say 6 months post-release is not something I'm willing to do, especially after EoD lacked a lot despite the hype and it looks like they once again cancelled/changed direction after getting people's money what with how Gyala Delves turned out, the new fractal, and parts of the map that are named and hinted at as having something there.

Pre-orders are bad enough, pre-ordering content you'll only get part of is worse.

I've also lost track of the number of times Anet said they were changing cadences and "this time it will work better" only for that cadence to either not be sustainable or it was a brief moment of content/communication before they went back to how they were before. Their goodwill ran out ages ago and now they need to prove it, and saying customers will get what they paid for, which is currently sight unseen, supposedly in 6 months (as it can be delayed) is very much not proving it.

[IndigoSundown.5419]

ANet is calling it an expansion.  What it really is is a season pass.

[trunks.5249]

its simple you hand out a big expansion people play it then do not log in for a while some times months or even tell the next expansion. so that is a lot less people to look in the store when they drop new skins. so thats a money loss. however if they drip feed it means possibly more sales in the gem store. star trek online stopped making expansions and just puts out a few episode every few months however its free to counter that they come out with ship bundles that can cost over 200 dollars. seems GW2 they are selling us episode and keeping gem store stuff cheap. i am fine with that. it would be bad in my case if they did the mini expansions free and i see a cool skin but the price is 50-100 dollars

[Quench.7091]

I don't mind expansions expanding the story end of things. EoD didn't grant me anything that I necessarily care about as a feature, so it is on par. However, it seems like we won't be getting a Tengu anytime soon. Maybe I should put my skiff, siege turtle, and fishing rod on a sacrificial altar? Sacrifice them them to the demons in SotO in exchange for the power to make a Tengu character? Sounds like a good idea, if you ask me.

Edited August 6, 2023 by Quench.7091

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

5 hours ago, trunks.5249 said:

its simple you hand out a big expansion people play it then do not log in for a while some times months or even tell the next expansion. so that is a lot less people to look in the store when they drop new skins. so thats a money loss. however if they drip feed it means possibly more sales in the gem store. star trek online stopped making expansions and just puts out a few episode every few months however its free to counter that they come out with ship bundles that can cost over 200 dollars. seems GW2 they are selling us episode and keeping gem store stuff cheap. i am fine with that. it would be bad in my case if they did the mini expansions free and i see a cool skin but the price is 50-100 dollars

Big xpac - login for 1 or 2 weeks, be done with it, come again for a day when LS releases
Mini xpac - login for 2 days, be done with it, come again for 2 days when next part of the xpac releases.
Is there that much difference? If anything big xpac seems more profitable in gemstore sales since in two weeks you're more prone to spend some cash than in several days of mini-xpac.

It seems to me that the reason to do this is because it takes more resources to build a full xpac, than to sell glorified LS episodes as an xpac.

[cat.8975]

I think they made a mistake when they called it an expansion. This feels more like a season of living world, with the way its content releases are being spread out over the next year or so. I'm fine with having to pay for Living World content, but calling this an expansion when there aren't really any expansion-worthy features to speak of sucks.

The fact that we aren't getting the new weapons on release is disheartening.

[Jianyu.7065]

On 8/1/2023 at 2:10 PM, SpyderArachnid.5619 said:

So charge full price for an expansion, and drip-feed the content instead of giving us a full expansion.

Ugh...

It all depends on what your idea of "full price" is. The base price is $25 bucks - which players spend often on exclusive mount skins. Personally, I don't think $25 bucks a year for a yearly stream of additional content is an unreasonable ask.