How the new daily system in Wizards Vault reduced my enjoyment of GW2 [Merged]

[BlueJin.4127]

This is what I posted in the suggestions sticky:

Please give us a lot more choices for dailies and weeklies. Once the player completes 3 dailies or 6 weeklies, make it so that remaining dailies/weeklies give significantly less AA, but can still be completed. This way, casual players who don't play much can just aim for the completion chests, but players who play a lot and want more things to do can still have more dailies/weeklies to work on.

Also, always make 3 of the dailies (and 6 of the weeklies) general dailies that can be completed by anyone, regardless of expansion owned or story progress. Dailies like "Defeat 25 Enemies" are general enough that players won't miss out regardless of their place in story. The remaining dailies can have more specific requirements, such as "Fly for 100 meters on a flying mount." This would also give devs more freedom and creativity on dailies/weeklies they can create, whether it's owning a specific expansion, LWS, mount, mastery, or even gem store items.

Edited September 20, 2023 by BlueJin.4127

[kharmin.7683]

13 hours ago, BlueJin.4127 said:

This is what I posted in the suggestions sticky:

Please give us a lot more choices for dailies and weeklies. Once the player completes 3 dailies or 6 weeklies, make it so that remaining dailies/weeklies give significantly less AA, but can still be completed. This way, casual players who don't play much can just aim for the completion chests, but players who play a lot and want more things to do can still have more dailies/weeklies to work on.

Also, always make 3 of the dailies (and 6 of the weeklies) general dailies that can be completed by anyone, regardless of expansion owned or story progress. Dailies like "Defeat 25 Enemies" are general enough that players won't miss out regardless of their place in story. The remaining dailies can have more specific requirements, such as "Fly for 100 meters on a flying mount." This would also give devs more freedom and creativity on dailies/weeklies they can create, whether it's owning a specific expansion, LWS, mount, mastery, or even gem store items.

Isn't this what the Special category is for?

[idpersona.3810]

1 hour ago, kharmin.7683 said:

Isn't this what the Special category is for?

Nah. The Special category (so far) is just for bonus rewards for people who bought SotO and get those tasks done.

[DeanBB.4268]

16 hours ago, BlueJin.4127 said:

This is what I posted in the suggestions sticky:

Please give us a lot more choices for dailies and weeklies. Once the player completes 3 dailies or 6 weeklies, make it so that remaining dailies/weeklies give significantly less AA, but can still be completed. This way, casual players who don't play much can just aim for the completion chests, but players who play a lot and want more things to do can still have more dailies/weeklies to work on.

Also, always make 3 of the dailies (and 6 of the weeklies) general dailies that can be completed by anyone, regardless of expansion owned or story progress. Dailies like "Defeat 25 Enemies" are general enough that players won't miss out regardless of their place in story. The remaining dailies can have more specific requirements, such as "Fly for 100 meters on a flying mount." This would also give devs more freedom and creativity on dailies/weeklies they can create, whether it's owning a specific expansion, LWS, mount, mastery, or even gem store items.

I don't think we need to be rewarded for 12 dailies (for example). Just stop giving the reward once the daily has been completed. If a player wants more dailies to do, there are more out there outside the WV (LW for example), and way more to do in the game than dailies.

[mariugo.4856]

So have they spelt a single word about the daily system? I keep not enjoying the fact that i have to chose 1 day (or 1  week) in advance the content i will have to play to get my dailies/weekly,  it's embarassing to have radio silence on a system that has worsened the QoL of every single player playing the game 

[Ashantara.8731]

4 minutes ago, mariugo.4856 said:

So have they spelt a single word about the daily system? I keep not enjoying the fact that i have to chose 1 day (or 1  week) in advance the content i will have to play to get my dailies/weekly,  it's embarassing to have radio silence on a system that has worsened the QoL of every single player playing the game 

Has it? I am enjoying the new system a lot more than the old one, to be honest. Most of the tasks are okay, some are boring, some are great fun. Most dailies get quickly done, and it's great to be able to choose the rewards on your own.

[QueenKeriti.5176]

15 minutes ago, mariugo.4856 said:

So have they spelt a single word about the daily system? I keep not enjoying the fact that i have to chose 1 day (or 1  week) in advance the content i will have to play to get my dailies/weekly,  it's embarassing to have radio silence on a system that has worsened the QoL of every single player playing the game 

I know you're using hyperbole, but I'm loving the new daily system. The rewards feel a lot more rewarding, and it can be fast to get your dailies done. It usually takes me longer to get each account through my home instance than it does to do the (PvE) dailies, especially now that we have a fourth that lets me skip any particularly annoying/time consuming dailies (minidungeons, Long Way Around JP, etc).

It'd be cool to have more dailies/weeklies added to the system; hopefully the next WV reset adds more.

[Cuks.8241]

The problem is for us that play all game modes but dont have time or intention to play all 3 (pve, spvp and wvw) each day.

Basically you have to choose which game mode(s) you will play next day/week if you want to complete dailies. Which basically comes down to choice between enjoing game vs getting aa for me on some days. I choose fun but before I didnt need to choose.

Im not salty anymore though because weeklies are good and easy to do and between them and specials the game just showers you with aa. Dailies are actually not worth much.

[Linken.6345]

50 minutes ago, QueenKeriti.5176 said:

I know you're using hyperbole, but I'm loving the new daily system. The rewards feel a lot more rewarding, and it can be fast to get your dailies done. It usually takes me longer to get each account through my home instance than it does to do the (PvE) dailies, especially now that we have a fourth that lets me skip any particularly annoying/time consuming dailies (minidungeons, Long Way Around JP, etc).

It'd be cool to have more dailies/weeklies added to the system; hopefully the next WV reset adds more.

long way around is easy just have a alt parked there.

[QueenKeriti.5176]

7 minutes ago, Linken.6345 said:

long way around is easy just have a alt parked there.

Gotta see if I have a spare alt on my alt accounts. 😂

[Bella Rikka.2387]

Just came to check in on the thread, and to provide a tentative update. 

Having the extra choice has helped immensely with being able to actually complete the dailies on work days. It is still frustrating that we're locked in for the entire week into whichever game mode was chosen, which they will hopefully fix soon. It would be nice to be able to choose WvW dailies on days off, as I used to. As it is, I can't do them every day, so I have to stick with PvE.

[Kiof.5710]

I like the new system overall, but...

Due to the limited objectives I like to do in PvP and WvW, I select the WvE options and am happy to do those for the daily/weekly.  However, that means I no longer go into PvP or WvW at all.  

Why not open all objectives to player choice with the limitation that you can only do X number of objectives per day for AA.  If there were objectives in the other modes I know I could reasonably accomplish in a reasonable amount of time I would pop back in from time to time.  However limited time on work days forces me to choose PvE to assure myself of getting the daily in the time I have available.

[mariugo.4856]

22 hours ago, QueenKeriti.5176 said:

I know you're using hyperbole, but I'm loving the new daily system. The rewards feel a lot more rewarding, and it can be fast to get your dailies done. It usually takes me longer to get each account through my home instance than it does to do the (PvE) dailies, especially now that we have a fourth that lets me skip any particularly annoying/time consuming dailies (minidungeons, Long Way Around JP, etc).

It'd be cool to have more dailies/weeklies added to the system; hopefully the next WV reset adds more.

The rewards are indeed more rewarding, i didn't complain about it, i was complaining about the fact that we went from a system that let you chose from a variety of objectives in every single gamemode to one where you have 1/3rd of the choices and you have to decide the gamemode one day in advance, i still can't really decipher their toughts process about such direction, why not just put the old 12 objectives and cap it after 3 or 4 of them are completed? The only possible reason i can think of is that they didn't code it properly and they rushed it in this state (hence why the hotfix with simply +1 daily) but that would be scary about their yearly releases quality control

[QueenKeriti.5176]

20 minutes ago, mariugo.4856 said:

The rewards are indeed more rewarding, i didn't complain about it, i was complaining about the fact that we went from a system that let you chose from a variety of objectives in every single gamemode to one where you have 1/3rd of the choices and you have to decide the gamemode one day in advance, i still can't really decipher their toughts process about such direction, why not just put the old 12 objectives and cap it after 3 or 4 of them are completed? The only possible reason i can think of is that they didn't code it properly and they rushed it in this state (hence why the hotfix with simply +1 daily) but that would be scary about their yearly releases quality control

I've mentioned before that I think this entire WV system was rushed out the door because they had to have something to ship with the expac (side note: I think the entire expac was a last minute change from whatever was originally planned, which is part of why SoTO looks and acts the way it does). WV definitely isn't/wasn't ready for release. It was put together enough to be functional (and rewarding). It works, especially after the hotfix with +1 daily and getting rid of the bugged minidungeon, but it still is a huge mess.

[Futeko.9405]

I feel the current direction spearheaded by the Wizard's Vault is making the game feel more and more like a mobile game experience, and I heavily dislike that.

Mobile games work by hooking you using (1) small reward cycles with daily/weekly resets so you feel compelled to log in and complete tasks every day to get your rewards, and (2) Fear Of Missing Out syndrome - "if you don't get it now, it'll be unavailable/more expensive later and/or everyone else will be ahead of you and you'll never catch up to them".

This is all based on addiction mechanisms and not on what makes a game fun or enjoyable. You're completing tasks because you "need" your rewards, not because the task and/or the rewards are fun. In other words, the fun over time invested ratio is very small and you're playing more because you feel you "have to" rather than because you want to.

That is my issue with the changed system:

• I feel forced to get as much Astral Acclaim as I can, because (1) there are exclusive rewards you can only get with AA, (2) those rewards will disappear or get more expensive later, and (3) you can only get so much AA per cycle.
  • It means I feel like I'll miss out on rewards I don't unlock in the current cycle and I'll never be able to catch up on them, because next cycle there will be new rewards, and the amount of AA one can get will still be limited.
• I feel forced to complete content I was not planning to complete (yet), because some dailies/weeklies/specials lead me to zones I have not yet reached in the story.
  • Most importantly, I feel forced to complete the current content in SOTO now, even though I'm not yet done with the story up to there, because of the Specials WV tab. Combined with my limited game time and the fact the WV tasks have me perform tasks e.g. in Cantha when I'm barely starting LW4, I'm spending most of my time rushing content out of order because of the time-limited nature of WV rewards.
• I feel channeled into a specific game mode as opposed to having the choice of how to spend my time for dailies.
  • Meaning, I can't choose to complete e.g. two dailies from the PvE list and one from the WvW list. I need to complete my whole list, meaning I can't take the risk of having a WvW daily I can't complete in reasonable time (or ever if I'm unlucky) so I'm stuck with a 100% PvE list that I don't necessarily enjoy, but know I can complete regardless of the time of the day I log in.

None of the above existed with the previous daily system:

• I could miss log-in rewards or dailies without feeling I was missing content to which I'd never be able to catch up.
  • Log-in rewards were basically gold in various forms. Not logging in meant missing on some gold, and you can always "catch up" on gold.
  • Dailies meant gold and AP, and that was it. And the AP was (and still is) capped to a certain amount, so even if you miss some days you'll still be able to get AP-capped someday.
  • With AA, you get time-limited rewards. Miss a log-in/daily/weekly/special = miss on AA = miss on rewards that are exclusive to AA and that you can't buy with gold.
    • (I know you can miss some AA and still get every exclusive reward, with the rest just being "gold" or resources you can get with gold. But with the extra step of getting AA -> buying rewards instead of getting fixed rewards, it's much less intuitive what you're going to miss if you miss a daily/weekly/special, because you miss out on an exclusive currency, not on a specific reward).
• There was nothing exclusive/time-limited forcing me to complete specific content.
  • I could complete the story at my leisure, in the order I meant to complete it. I could spend a year catching up on the story up to the new expansion and I would not be penalized for it by missing out on some exclusive rewards/currency.
  • Now I'm essentially forced to either complete the new content as it gets released or miss out on exclusive AA from the Special tab.
• I could choose which 3 dailies to complete out of a list of 12 across PvE, PvP and WvW.
  • Now, I need to complete 3 dailies out of 4, and I need to choose from which mode(s) they are taken. I can't log in and do what I feel like doing that day.
  • And the extra daily task/two weekly tasks still reward AA, so I still have an incentive to complete those even if I already got my daily/weekly meta reward. As such I don't feel I need to complete 3 dailies and 6 weeklies, but 4 dailies and 8 weeklies.
    • As a result, I'm spending much more time per week doing dailies/weeklies than before - tasks I feel "forced" to do lest I miss out on exclusive currency.

So I feel like the new system is moving towards those mobile games addiction-based systems that have you invest a good chunk of your daily time into the game by dangling the FOMO carrot in front of you, instead of just producing/encouraging fun gameplay and content.

Yes, the rewards from the WV are much better than the previous dailies/log-in system. But no, I'm not having fun with it. After over a month of living with that new system, I still miss the old one, which I felt matched the base design philosophy of GW2 for all the reasons above.

I feel those issues could be solved with limited changes:

• Dispel the FOMO-feeling by ensuring AA can get you exclusive rewards earlier/faster, with the legacy tab using other currencies so you never "get behind" on AA.
  • For example, have legacy rewards also offered for spirit shards, gold, materials, etc.
  • That way, even if you miss out on AA, you know you'll still be able to get the exclusive rewards through other means. You won't feel that if you miss on 1000 AA, that's 1000 AA you'll never get back, and a reward you'll never be able to buy because new rewards for AA are constantly getting added.
• Go back to offering all PvE, PvP and WvW dailies/weeklies to everyone, but only award AA for the first 4 dailies/6 weeklies.
  • Further tasks can be completed for non-AA rewards (like a chest with materials, unidentified gear, etc.) like the previous system.
  • That way, you actually have a choice in what you want to complete on a specific day/week, and you can more easily skip what you don't like and/or don't have access to.
• (Bonus) Gate the tasks behind what the account has unlocked so players do not feel forced to complete content they have not yet unlocked.
  • For instance, do not offer Cantha dailies if the account has not yet reached the story step giving access to that zone/mastery.
  • The impact of that issue would be much lessened by the above point though - if you have more choices to complete the meta daily/weekly, and further dailies/weeklies do not give you AA, you can more easily skip e.g. Cantha tasks if you aren't there yet in the story.
    • This however would not protect you from days/weeks where a high number of tasks take place in Cantha. Rarer and less of a problem, but still some good added value if that can be implemented.

Right now, I'm tiring out of the game at an extremely accelerated rate compared to before SOTO and the new system because of that increased daily/weekly involvement the game "requires". As such, I hope the next cycle in 40 days will address those issues.

[Ashen.2907]

For the most part my perception of the matter is the opposite. The exception being that I agree that it was nice to be able to pick and choose from many daily options across three game modes.

But...

There is more AA available than things worth spending it on without going heavily into repeatable 30aa per gold so I can skip dailies without fear of missing out on anything. That said, if the actual rewards change drastically this could change.

There are more options in the weeklies than are needed to complete them.

There are more options in the dailies than are needed to complete them.

SPvP dailies, using PvP rooms, can be completed in ten minutes or less every day.

My WvW dailies (my default selection) usually are done in five to ten minutes.

My weeklies are generally done in one to two hours of play. Spread across seven days that works out, on average, to perhaps 15 minutes per day....with progress for dailies and weeklies being made concurrently so the dailies end up taking no time beyond what is being spent on weeklies. 

[ugrakarma.9416]

the "temporary" astral rewards take too long cycle to be a FOMO. I think we are going to 3 months with current prize set, i have already get 50%, or 60% of them, and i give game breaks........ also the best prize: the Leg. Weapon box can be acquired aread of others.

the rest can "wait".. laurels? gold? Mystic coins? perhaps only new players will need rush for it.

Edited September 27, 2023 by ugrakarma.9416

[ugrakarma.9416]

its seems also only skins stuff will "rotate". the rest, the basic stuff, probably will stay / reset.

[Shaogin.2679]

We already know that rewards will not be removed and they have made no indication that prices will increase. You only need to complete 3 of the 4 tasks to receive your Daily, 4 out of 5 if you include the log on task. And honestly, I am already at the point where I am running out of stuff that I even want to spend my AA on, so the pace seems fine. I won't be able to play for an entire month next month, and I don't feel worried at all about missing out on anything. It's simple really, just do the content at your leisure and buy the stuff when you want. Any FOMO that exists is simply self inflicted at this point for no reason.

Edited September 28, 2023 by Shaogin.2679

[kharmin.7683]

Nothing in the vault is required to play the game or complete content.  If you feel pressured, then that's on you.

[ruinedEclipse.7896]

[Deleted]

Edited September 29, 2023 by ruinedEclipse.7896
Sick of people commenting/replying and ignoring my actual argument. Not worth my time or energy.

[QueenKeriti.5176]

This is very much a "you" problem. You don't need to log in every day just to be able to progress, unlike a game like Genshin where missing a day WILL mess your account up. Edit: Just doing the special tab alone currently nets you enough AA for the griffon, the legendary box, the mystic coins, the mystic clovers, and the 90g. That's all stuff you can achieve just from playing.

My dude above me, this is very much self-inflicted, and, I mean this with all due respect, you might want to talk to someone about your actual psychological torment by FOMO problems. Like, unironically, please go talk to someone about that because that's horribly unhealthy.

Edited September 28, 2023 by QueenKeriti.5176

[ugrakarma.9416]

27 minutes ago, Shaogin.2679 said:

I am already at the point where I am running out of stuff that I even want to spend my AA on, so the pace seems fine.

same here, basically laurels is the remaining worth stuff left for me, because dailies is the only source of laurels.

[Futeko.9405]

I feel it's important to note two things:

• "FOMO" is not something you can turn on or off at will. Trust me, if I could do without it, I'd gladly throw that away in a blink.
  • It's thus important to understand you can't easily rationalize FOMO away. As I mentioned in my post, I know you can get all the time-limited rewards without getting all the AA there is to get.
  • The issue is there is now an indirect link between the exclusive rewards and the dailies/weeklies. So if I miss out on AA I still feel like I'm missing on something I'll never get back, even if rationally, missing out on 30 AA is like missing one gold. That link just doesn't exist intuitively, and unfortunately FOMO works off emotions, not rationality.
  • The fact of the matter is that the WV is more prone to FOMO than the old system, if only due to the fact there is an exclusive currency that is time-gated. That is the issue in my opinion. If you as a player do not have FOMO then that's great, but please understand some other players have to deal with that, and any system that encourages that syndrome is problematic for them.
• Your mileage may vary depending on your preferred game mode and daily/weekly playtime.
  • On my side, PvE dailies took me 5-10 minutes each day with the old system. Today that average is only met with easier dailies - the days where we get more complicated dailies like Canthan minidungeons, they take upwards of 30 minutes. Weeklies add time on top of it all, and some of them require special arrangements of time slots (like strikes or long metas). As such I'm spending way more time doing dailies/weeklies than in the old system (and that's not counting Special tasks).
  • Therefore I feel it's also a fact that the new system just requires more time invested than the previous one. If that extra time is meaningless for you because you can enjoy a lot of game time, that's great, but please understand some other players might not have that luxury and might see that extra time eat a good chunk of their already limited playtime.

If a system makes a step forward increased FOMO and daily time investment, for some players that might be a tiny step, for others that might be a huge leap. I don't feel it's constructive to discuss whether it's a step or a leap for a particular player instead of discussing the nature of a system, its flaws, and what could be implemented to make it better.

[Nate Anabe.6091]

Why are people so worried about optional content, that they post word count essays on the subject?