Why the namechange of Commander?

[Kalavier.1097]

59 minutes ago, Teknomancer.4895 said:

Did you skip all of the dialogue? There's heavy use of they/them in reference to the player character. I don't much care, just seems an odd change to make after all this time. As has been noted elsewhere in the forums, it's probably just a cost-saving measure on the voice acting: one line instead of two. (shrug)

I listened to every bit of dialogue, and I never caught any heavy use of They/them.

Even then, such use would mean absolutely nothing on whether the commander is non-binary or not. Unless the commander says it, then it's not an indicator.

[Infinity.2876]

This?

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

7 hours ago, Kalavier.1097 said:

I listened to every bit of dialogue, and I never caught any heavy use of They/them.

Even then, such use would mean absolutely nothing on whether the commander is non-binary or not. Unless the commander says it, then it's not an indicator.

There are occasional use of they/them, even by Zojja, but it's clearly done so that they can save money on not having to do two lines every time the Commander gets referred to in third person, which allows ArenaNet to record more dialogue in general. It's definitely not a non-binary thing @Teknomancer.4895...

[Lord Trejgon.2809]

Correct me if I am wrong, but wasn't "they/them" popularized to be used as gender neutral pronouns couple years back? NPCs refering to commander with these pronouns is not the case of Commander being non-binary, but more a case of NPCs not wanting to assume 😉

(and of course cost cuts, if they can record everything with neutral pronouns once, instead of recording it twice....)

[CathShadow.9507]

I've always been bugged by the CONSTANT use of nickname to refer to me - "The commander".. "hey commander" etc.

 

While I feel being referred to in third person like this (they/them) is a step in the right direction it does bug me a little. Personally, I'd much rather be referred to as she/her instead of they/them, as it feels a little impersonal to me. (Or, if anything, be given the choice of how I'd like to be referred). BG3 does this nicely.

Edited August 31, 2023 by CathShadow.9507
spacing, context.

[DanAlcedo.3281]

3 hours ago, CathShadow.9507 said:

I've always been bugged by the CONSTANT use of nickname to refer to me - "The commander".. "hey commander" etc.

 

While I feel being referred to in third person like this (they/them) is a step in the right direction it does bug me a little. Personally, I'd much rather be referred to as she/her instead of they/them, as it feels a little impersonal to me. (Or, if anything, be given the choice of how I'd like to be referred). BG3 does this nicely.

I see that " BG3 is the new norm" is starting to be a thing. 

Holding game Studios to that Standard will be tough. 

[AlPower.2476]

I'd prefer Quagganaitor

[Panda.1967]

On 8/28/2023 at 6:31 AM, Krinstin.6287 said:

Plus what's the point, even? "Commander" wasn't a valid title for at least 5 ingame years, so theres no argument for "they aren't a Commander no mo," not to mention they just randomly gave them the title with no explanation whatsoever.

SotO is the first time where our title as Commander holds no meaning. In Core, we helped form the pact… by the end we were the pact commander whether we wanted to be or not. HoTs rolls around and Trahearn has gone missing, now we have no choice but to accept our responsibility as pact commander since he’s not there to call the shots for us… by the end he’s dead and we’ve proven ourselves as pact commander… PoF hits and we’re seeing the repercussions of killing two Elder Dragons and have a crazed God of War running amok attempting to kill the Elder Dragons himself after we decided we needed to stop… so the pact shifted gears to stop a god… and of course his meddling made it impossible to leave Kralkatoric alive… and killing Kralkatoric lead to having no choice but to kill Primordus and Jormag whom we had to devise a plan to kill simultaneously to avoid either of them growing any stronger… in EoD we were nolonger acting as Pact Commander since the Pact had not come to Cantha with us, but our title was still used for diplomatic reasons… but now we are in a situation where not only are we are not in charge… we have no idea what we are dealing with… we are in fact the noobie who just showed up and caused problems… we have to prove ourselves to the wizards, and we only really have Zojja vouching for us… our accomplishments got us noticed by them but they don’t make them trust us. For all they know, and for all we know even, we may be a threat to everything they stand for… but they give us a chance anyway, and through our actions we prove ourselves worthy of being a wayfinder, aka and honorary member of the Astral Ward… the title just means we are viewed as a member but are not actually a member. They will not call us commander because doing so means they are turning to us to make decisions for them, instead we are simply a wayfinder, they will give us orders as they see fit and we will do our best to prove ourselves. The only people who call us Commander still are members of the Pact we occasionally hear from over coms and Zojja who goes back and forth between calling us Commander and Wayfinder, seemingly only using Commander when others of the Astral Ward are not around.

Edited October 9, 2023 by Panda.1967

[MalekithDG.6124]

On 8/28/2023 at 3:00 PM, Luthan.5236 said:

I think it is also to signify that you are not "commanding" anything anymore.

You are. Commander even says something along the lines of "I can call the whole pact armada here with a single word" during the story. You cant decommission someone like the Commander just because there arent any obvious world ending threats with dragons gone. Pact will always be a thing for the peace via deterrent.

[Panda.1967]

5 minutes ago, MalekithDG.6124 said:

You are. Commander even says something along the lines of "I can call the whole pact armada here with a single word" during the story. You cant decommission someone like the Commander just because there arent any obvious world ending threats with dragons gone. Pact will always be a thing for the peace via deterrent.

We are still the pact commander… but our title and position means nothing to the Arcane Ward. We are an outsider who basically barged through their front door uninvited. We aren’t in command of anything in regards to the crisis at hand. Our forces are on standby and we’ve been given orders by the ones in charge if this crisis’ response to keep it that way. One uninvited guest (us) is enough trouble for them, the last thing they want is an entire army of uninvited guests. So we are playing by their rules and attempting to earn their trust. Perhaps when the next zone releases we’ll be in a position where we have the authority to call in the pact to help deal with the crisis. For now though we’re taking orders not giving them.

[MalekithDG.6124]

Just now, Panda.1967 said:

We are still the pact commander… but our title and position means nothing to the Arcane Ward. We are an outsider who basically barged through their front door uninvited. We aren’t in command of anything in regards to the crisis at hand. Our forces are on standby and we’ve been given orders by the ones in charge if this crisis’ response to keep it that way. One uninvited guest (us) is enough trouble for them, the last thing they want is an entire army of uninvited guests. So we are playing by their rules and attempting to earn their trust. Perhaps when the next zone releases we’ll be in a position where we have the authority to call in the pact to help deal with the crisis. For now though we’re taking orders not giving them.

Oh yeah I am aware. I am just pointing out that we are still commanding. It is just that Arcane Ward doesnt want us to do it. Our "Commander" title will come into play at some point even if it wont in Kryptis Arc. ANET is just using "Wayfinder" as something to keep things fresh I assume.

[Panda.1967]

25 minutes ago, MalekithDG.6124 said:

Oh yeah I am aware. I am just pointing out that we are still commanding. It is just that Arcane Ward doesnt want us to do it. Our "Commander" title will come into play at some point even if it wont in Kryptis Arc. ANET is just using "Wayfinder" as something to keep things fresh I assume.

Honestly I think SotO may be leading into a massive time skip with us at some point fully joining the Astral Ward and ascending… it seems like a logical path given our character’s disposition regarding Aureen going to sleep for possibly a thousand years… and joining the Astral Ward seems to have perks including nolonger aging…

Edited October 10, 2023 by Panda.1967

[Kalavier.1097]

7 hours ago, MalekithDG.6124 said:

You are. Commander even says something along the lines of "I can call the whole pact armada here with a single word" during the story. You cant decommission someone like the Commander just because there arent any obvious world ending threats with dragons gone. Pact will always be a thing for the peace via deterrent.

Being fair, the Commander is an honorary title for life. It's less of us actively being in the Pact command structure or getting paid by them but more of our experience is such that we can go "Hey Logan, something's really bad over here, can use an army" and they'll trust us enough to send a force.

[Squee.7829]

You're a commander of the Pact, but nothing else. As far as the ward is concerned, you're just "some person who happens to be useful". Why would they call you commader? You don't command any of them.

 

Your rank doesn't really apply outside of the organization where you hold said rank. Sort of like how I used to be in the military. I finished my service in the reserves. While I was doing stuff for the reserves, I was addressed by my rank at the time. My normal day-to-day job was maintenance for a hotel company. Literally no one in my hotel company would  refer to my by what rank I held in the military. That would be stupid. I was just a maintenance person to the hotel. 

Edited October 13, 2023 by Squee.7829

[Danikat.8537]

On 8/31/2023 at 9:08 AM, CathShadow.9507 said:

I've always been bugged by the CONSTANT use of nickname to refer to me - "The commander".. "hey commander" etc.

 

While I feel being referred to in third person like this (they/them) is a step in the right direction it does bug me a little. Personally, I'd much rather be referred to as she/her instead of they/them, as it feels a little impersonal to me. (Or, if anything, be given the choice of how I'd like to be referred). BG3 does this nicely.

How does Baldur's Gate 3 do it? (I haven't gotten around to playing it yet.) If it's just that you choose pronouns (or they're determined by body type) and then the characters use those instead of using they/them for everyone that's already been covered - they do that by having the actors record all those lines two or three times, so it only works for a game with the timescale and budget to allow for the additional voice acting.

It's not an easy problem to solve in games with voice acting that also let you name your character, because there's no good way to get the actors to say everything players could call their character and just using pronouns, even if they are the right ones for the character, can eventually get awkward, like they've forgotten your name and are trying to avoid saying it.

I've only seen games get around it by using a title like GW2 does, assigning a name that other characters will say (either with no choice to customise it or something like Dragon Age 2 where you can pick a first name but then everyone just calls you Hawke) or alternating between written and voiced dialogue with your character's name only appearing in written dialogue.

Although for a lot of my characters using their full name is just as formal, and therefore out of place, as using a title. My main GW2 character is called Danielle Aurorel and if I had the choice most reoccurring characters would call her Dani most of the time. So 'Commander' (or Wayfarer or whatever else she is to them) works just as well.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

2 hours ago, Squee.7829 said:

You're a commander of the Pact, but nothing else. As far as the ward is concerned, you're just "some person who happens to be useful". Why would they call you commader? You don't command any of them.

 

Your rank doesn't really apply outside of the organization where you hold said rank. Sort of like how I used to be in the military. I finished my service in the reserves. While I was doing stuff for the reserves, I was addressed by my rank at the time. My normal day-to-day job was maintenance for a hotel company. Literally no one in my hotel company would  refer to my by what rank I held in the military. That would be stupid. I was just a maintenance person to the hotel. 

The Pact Commander is a renowned hero for leading the defeat of each Elder Dragon other than Aurene. They are also renowned for killing a god. The rank became a title branded on their identity, much like how former presidents in the USA are always referred to "President" or a former general as "General" or a former admiral as "Admiral." There comes a point that the title itself brings prestige and the title carries over into life after the active role is finished.

The Ward itself, had fan clubs for The Commander. He is not their commander, but he is important to them and gained a title of merit amongst them, a rare title given to only 12 individuals over the course of 2,000 years. And prior to given them that title they did indeed call them "The Commander" as it one of the PC's many titles, and is arguably the most significant one even now.

[Peregrine Falcon.5496]

5 hours ago, Squee.7829 said:

You're a commander of the Pact, but nothing else. As far as the ward is concerned, you're just "some person who happens to be useful". Why would they call you commader? You don't command any of them.

Your rank doesn't really apply outside of the organization where you hold said rank. Sort of like how I used to be in the military. I finished my service in the reserves. While I was doing stuff for the reserves, I was addressed by my rank at the time. My normal day-to-day job was maintenance for a hotel company. Literally no one in my hotel company would  refer to my by what rank I held in the military. That would be stupid. I was just a maintenance person to the hotel. 

Commander is a rank and an honorary title for life. Just like a retired General or Senator is still called General or Senator.

The Commander isn't just some person who happens to be useful. Mabon even says that they know who the Commander is, they've been watching him for years. He's a great hero who killed 6 elder dragons and killed the god of war. If the members of "Hogwarts in the Sky" have any sense or courtesy they'll call him Commander just out of respect.

And yeah, I'm one of those who hates being called Wayfarer.

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

i would rather they continue to use gender-neutral pronouns so they can record less lines and have more voice acting in general. every single line they save by not having to record two different genders for the player character can be spent giving another character a voice.

[Ashantara.8731]

On 8/28/2023 at 1:31 PM, Krinstin.6287 said:

As is in title. Why change the nickname for the Commander to Wayfinder?

We have had

• Hero of Shaemoor, Recruit, Slayer, and two dozen other titles during the Personal Story
• Boss (during Season 2)
• Commander
• Outlander (PoF)
• Outsider (EoD)
• Wayfinder (SotO)
• . . .

I, for one, am always enjoying a fresh title that fits the current campaign setting.

Edited October 13, 2023 by Ashantara.8731

[Farohna.6247]

48 minutes ago, Ashantara.8731 said:

We have had

• Hero of Shaemoor, Recruit, Slayer, and two dozen other titles during the Personal Story
• Boss (during Season 2)
• Commander
• Outlander (PoF)
• Outsider (EoD)
• Wayfinder (SotO)
• . . .

I, for one, am always enjoying a fresh title that fits the current campaign setting.

Say nothing of Hero of Amnoon.  I agree, I like the change with the campaigns, makes it relevant to the moment.  And since the many named commander is looking for a new purpose, much like their friends are doing their things, why not?   

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

you also forgot the generic ones we've had like dragon slayer, god killer and so on. there's quite a few of them.

Edited October 14, 2023 by SoftFootpaws.9134

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

Also, Champion. But then only Aurene really gets to call us that.

[Danikat.8537]

7 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Also, Champion. But then only Aurene really gets to call us that.

I suspect other people might be a bit uncomfortable acknowledging that your character is a Dragon Champion, given that usually means horrifying destructive monster. I think most people understand that Aurene and her champion(s?) are different, but that might just make them think the comparison is awkward.

[DanAlcedo.3281]

8 minutes ago, Danikat.8537 said:

I suspect other people might be a bit uncomfortable acknowledging that your character is a Dragon Champion, given that usually means horrifying destructive monster. I think most people understand that Aurene and her champion(s?) are different, but that might just make them think the comparison is awkward.

Looking at our feats, normal mortals have good reason to be cautious. 

If Goku would just walk around in your hometown, a being destroying Planets with ease, you would also feels atleast somewhat unsure. 

Regardless how much you know he is a good guy. 

 

 

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

3 hours ago, Danikat.8537 said:

I suspect other people might be a bit uncomfortable acknowledging that your character is a Dragon Champion, given that usually means horrifying destructive monster. I think most people understand that Aurene and her champion(s?) are different, but that might just make them think the comparison is awkward.

The PC is referred to by as "champion" quite often in IBS and EoD, such as by Bangar, Ryland, Jormag, Soo-Won, and I think even Joon and Ankka. Not many but it does happen. Always felt weird when non-Elder Dragons said it.