Stealth is not OP, you are just bad

[magickthief.6492]

When sword/dagger was meta, it had only one stealth skill, dagger 5. And it was still too much for the average gw2 player. They want easy wins, and when they don't get it, they go to excuses. So, with the S/D murdered by anet, they come for stealth. Most of you dont even know what your skills do. With all due respect, practice

[Burnfall.9573]

1 hour ago, magickthief.6492 said:

When sword/dagger was meta, it had only one stealth skill, dagger 5. And it was still too much for the average gw2 player. They want easy wins, and when they don't get it, they go to excuses. So, with the S/D murdered by anet, they come for stealth. Most of you dont even know what your skills do. With all due respect, practice

 

Anet Toxic Stealth Mechanic Consequences For Guild Wars 2 Negative Reputation

"When a new player joins WvW, -PvP-, the first time they have to deal with a thief who kills them without being able to do anything about, they will quit."

Edited September 30, 2023 by Burnfall.9573

[Buran.3796]

3 hours ago, magickthief.6492 said:

When sword/dagger was meta, it had only one stealth skill, dagger 5. And it was still too much for the average gw2 player. They want easy wins, and when they don't get it, they go to excuses. So, with the S/D murdered by anet, they come for stealth. Most of you dont even know what your skills do. With all due respect, practice

  Usally the things which players hate the most are dealing with circumstances in which they have 0 control or ways to deal with, for example: being chainstuned for 8 seconds in Diablo IV.

   GW2 has some combos which allow players to cc foes and then to land heavy burst of damage on them. Stealth highly increases the chances of having success at hitting your foe with the first step of a highly damaging combo with  narrow chances for the changes to prevent the full effect. 

   Imagine playing  a Tekken game in which the Mishima characters could go invisible to land their Electric Wind Godfist...

   Stealth is an overpowered mechanic in GW2, not only in terms of damage but also defensive potential, and is not like doesn't exist in other games, but other games did best at trying to balance that potential.

Edited September 30, 2023 by Buran.3796

[Marckan.9526]

14 minutes ago, Buran.3796 said:

  Usally the things which players hate the most are dealing with circumstances in which they have 0 control or ways to deal with, for example: being chainstuned for 8 seconds in Diablo IV.

   GW2 has some combos which allow players to cc foes and then to land heavy burst of damage on them. Stealth highly increases the chances of having success at hitting your foe with the first step of a highly damaging combo with  narrow chances for the changes to prevent the full effect. 

   Imagine playing  a Tekken game in which the Mishima characters could go invisible to land their Electric Wind Godfist...

   Stealth is an overpowered mechanic in GW2, not only in terms of damage but also defensive potential, and is not like doesn't exist in other games, but other games did best at trying to balance that potential.

With all due respect, you CAN definitely do something about the burst of a thief - block, evade, invulnerable skills, etc. Thieves dont run stuns, warriors, engineers, revs etc do.

And most often stealth isn't used for getting that first backstab any more than is required to access the skill in the first place.

Most thieves nowadays run D/P and engage with Black powder + Heartseeker + Steal + Backstab combo where the stealth is only active for maximum of a half a second.

All of this can be evaded, and you most likely saw the thief running before he opened on you, and if you didn't well then you probably need to pay more attention to the map and kill feed.

There are so many things to shut down a thief in stealth, AOE pressure, CC, terrain, preemptive evades, blocks. Most requires some game knowledge/experience and preemptive thinking but it's far from hard. It's like most players don't even try and just blames the game rather than learn how to play.

WoW for example has a far worse implementation of stealth, would you prefer perma stealth that combos into a stun lock chain which results in either your death or the thief screws up and retreats to perma stealth? At least in GW2 the thief has to give up initiative and part of his burst/CD potential of it wants to stealth, and is most often not used to perma stealth.

 

[TrollingDemigod.3041]

14 minutes ago, Marckan.9526 said:

With all due respect, you CAN definitely do something about the burst of a thief - block, evade, invulnerable skills, etc. Thieves dont run stuns, warriors, engineers, revs etc do.

Alright, what are the chances that teef will engage within 3s of entering stealth? You used your block, nice teef walked into it and negated burst but what if TEEF DECIDED TO NOT ENGAGE within these 3s? Congrats! You wasted your 40s block for nothing! It may or may not happen, 50:50.
You understand problem or it's still too hard? It's a guess game and nothing more than that.

[Buran.3796]

2 hours ago, Marckan.9526 said:

With all due respect, you CAN definitely do something about the burst of a thief - block, evade, invulnerable skills, etc. Thieves dont run stuns, warriors, engineers, revs etc do.

   I'm not saying there's no escapes, but stealth is significatively harder than react to other threats in the game. For example, I play mostly heavies and I like to fight vs cc Warriors because everything is telegraphed and has good calls, so you have your fair chances to react and if the enemy baits you into evading feints and wasting your tools the blame is on you. For a game which changed so many skills and traits to have clear calls (or even removing skills which dealt damage out of nowhere, as the Revenant legend swap when was under certain energy levels) stealth continues to give a free card in terms of delivering sudden burst out of nowhere with little counters outside guessing games which are in the oposite pole of the healthy action-reaction dynamics.

Edited September 30, 2023 by Buran.3796

[DanAlcedo.3281]

3 hours ago, Marckan.9526 said:

With all due respect, you CAN definitely do something about the burst of a thief - block, evade, invulnerable skills, etc. Thieves dont run stuns, warriors, engineers, revs etc do.

And most often stealth isn't used for getting that first backstab any more than is required to access the skill in the first place.

Most thieves nowadays run D/P and engage with Black powder + Heartseeker + Steal + Backstab combo where the stealth is only active for maximum of a half a second.

All of this can be evaded, and you most likely saw the thief running before he opened on you, and if you didn't well then you probably need to pay more attention to the map and kill feed.

There are so many things to shut down a thief in stealth, AOE pressure, CC, terrain, preemptive evades, blocks. Most requires some game knowledge/experience and preemptive thinking but it's far from hard. It's like most players don't even try and just blames the game rather than learn how to play.

WoW for example has a far worse implementation of stealth, would you prefer perma stealth that combos into a stun lock chain which results in either your death or the thief screws up and retreats to perma stealth? At least in GW2 the thief has to give up initiative and part of his burst/CD potential of it wants to stealth, and is most often not used to perma stealth.

 

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Basilisk_Venom

I wonder what this Skill does? 

I am stunned to know. 🤔

Or this one. 

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Pistol_Whip

Wonder what this Skill does? 

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mind_Shock

Or this one. 

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Palm_Strike

Do I add stolen skills? Nah, I think that's enough. 

Thief not stunning people. Yep. 

Edited September 30, 2023 by DanAlcedo.3281

[Stand The Wall.6987]

the worst thing about stealth is getting jumped by someone who stealths up off screen. other then that i would say stealth implementation in this game is okayish to not great. it could be better but the game has already been designed with stealth behaving this way so its not gonna change. i mean i say that but they completely revamped the condi system so who knows

[Psycoprophet.8107]

7 hours ago, TrollingDemigod.3041 said:

Alright, what are the chances that teef will engage within 3s of entering stealth? You used your block, nice teef walked into it and negated burst but what if TEEF DECIDED TO NOT ENGAGE within these 3s? Congrats! You wasted your 40s block for nothing! It may or may not happen, 50:50.
You understand problem or it's still too hard? It's a guess game and nothing more than that.

So sounds kinda like u don't understand balance at all, no offense. So by ur description or the description of a thief baiting a block successfully it sounds like u think that u should be able to always reliably negate thiefs burst lol, cuz that's balance right? Let's also not pretend like that block is ur only source of defense vs a thief's burst. Uve got blocks, evade frames on weapon skills, 2 dodges, invulnerability skills and so on.

Edited September 30, 2023 by Psycoprophet.8107

[Eddbopkins.2630]

Two ideas that could balance out stealth I feel. Either one.

1. While in stealth damage is reduced by 50% or more

2.can not target enemy while in stealth. If people can not target you because your in stealth, it should also not allow you to target players. 

Both these seem fair to me.

[senftube.6081]

16 minutes ago, Eddbopkins.2630 said:

Two ideas that could balance out stealth I feel. Either one.

1. While in stealth damage is reduced by 50% or more

2.can not target enemy while in stealth. If people can not target you because your in stealth, it should also not allow you to target players. 

Both these seem fair to me.

An other one who doesn't know the mechanics. Thief has stealth attacks like backstab. To nerf that for 50% would be insane. God really guys get better and LEARN the kitten game before you write such kitten.

Edited September 30, 2023 by senftube.6081

[Burial.1958]

11 hours ago, magickthief.6492 said:

When sword/dagger was meta, it had only one stealth skill, dagger 5. And it was still too much for the average gw2 player. They want easy wins, and when they don't get it, they go to excuses. So, with the S/D murdered by anet, they come for stealth. Most of you dont even know what your skills do. With all due respect, practice

True alot of players are simply bad at the game.

 

20 minutes ago, Eddbopkins.2630 said:

Two ideas that could balance out stealth I feel. Either one.

1. While in stealth damage is reduced by 50% or more

2.can not target enemy while in stealth. If people can not target you because your in stealth, it should also not allow you to target players. 

Both these seem fair to me.

I mean that is a prove for your statement. 🤡

[Zekent.3652]

8 hours ago, Marckan.9526 said:

Or the thief screws up and retreats to perma stealth?

So, like GW2 WvW thieves xD

Aight, not a fan of dmg reduction while in stealth so i'll give some other ideas:
 

1. Reveal if you get hit in stealth.
2. Reveal if you miss a hit or hit a defensive target (invuls, immune, blocks, evades)
3. Reveal on casting damaging animations while in stealth, like Dead Eye's rifle 1.
4. Sound should be an indicator of a close stealthed foe.
5. Foot/Body trails if they're way too close to you.
6. Add reveal to classes without reveals.
7. Make reveal more viable without such big tradeoffs on classes that has it.

"But it's too much, too many ways to reveal" yeah... i don't care at this point, just pick your favorite and discard your least favorite, the truth is, that the stealth in this game is pepega.

[Eddbopkins.2630]

46 minutes ago, senftube.6081 said:

An other one who doesn't know the mechanics. Thief has stealth attacks like backstab. To nerf that for 50% would be insane. God really guys get better and LEARN the kitten game before you write such kitten.

Going completely invisible is a cheater mechanic teleporting threw walls is a cheaters mechanic. Name another game the has pvp that allows such broken mechanics?. You have a backwards since of balance and you have no idea what fair play is it seems.

Edited September 30, 2023 by Eddbopkins.2630

[cyberzombie.7348]

@Zizekent.2398While I have to disagree on suggestions 1-3 since that would make it downright liability in group fights. Suggestions 4 & 5 seems pretty reasonable since it gives a layer of counterplay without defeating the purpose of stealth. As far as 6th goes only ele needs it, every other class has some form of reveal except for thief & mesmer for obvious reasons. On the fence about the 7th, I usually find use out of them even without the reveal part. At the same time If I'm planning to be sidenoder and I see a thief on pre-match, common sense usually screams at me to slot some one in.

9 hours ago, Buran.3796 said:

I'm not saying there's no escapes, but stealth is significatively harder than react to other threats in the game. For example, I play mostly heavies and I like to fight vs cc Warriors because everything is telegraphed and has good calls, so you have your fair chances to react and if the enemy baits you into evading feints and wasting your tools the blame is on you. For a game which changed so many skills and traits to have clear calls (or even removing skills which dealt damage out of nowhere, as the Revenant legend swap when was under certain energy levels) stealth continues to give a free card in terms of delivering sudden burst out of nowhere with little counters outside guessing games which are in the oposite pole of the healthy action-reaction dynamics.

The trick is to be for the most part proactive in countering instead of reactive. The two best work arounds I normally use to track stealthed targets are casting a long-channeled skill just before before someone pops stealth like warrior's rush, holo's prime light beam, or guardian's zealot's defense. The other is using tethered AoEs like guardian's binding blade, thief's daggerstorm, virtuoso's bladestorm, or even tempest's lighting orb. Pretty sure the whirl + (x)field combo also works as such. 

Edited September 30, 2023 by cyberzombie.7348
grammar

[Sonork.2916]

Would the game be over all more fun without the thief class in it?  From a pvp/wvw perspective I think so.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

The devs prob avoid reading the forums just to avoid all the constant whining about stealth non stop for over 10 yrs. It's not changing nor is it going anywhere so move on to things that actually may be changed or chose the non existent mmo that doesn't have stealth and go and play that....and go onto its forums and complain about whatever killing u there haha 

Edited September 30, 2023 by Psycoprophet.8107

[Balsa.3951]

13 hours ago, Marckan.9526 said:

With all due respect, you CAN definitely do something about the burst of a thief - block, evade, invulnerable skills, etc. Thieves dont run stuns, warriors, engineers, revs etc do.

And most often stealth isn't used for getting that first backstab any more than is required to access the skill in the first place.

Most thieves nowadays run D/P and engage with Black powder + Heartseeker + Steal + Backstab combo where the stealth is only active for maximum of a half a second.

All of this can be evaded, and you most likely saw the thief running before he opened on you, and if you didn't well then you probably need to pay more attention to the map and kill feed.

There are so many things to shut down a thief in stealth, AOE pressure, CC, terrain, preemptive evades, blocks. Most requires some game knowledge/experience and preemptive thinking but it's far from hard. It's like most players don't even try and just blames the game rather than learn how to play.

WoW for example has a far worse implementation of stealth, would you prefer perma stealth that combos into a stun lock chain which results in either your death or the thief screws up and retreats to perma stealth? At least in GW2 the thief has to give up initiative and part of his burst/CD potential of it wants to stealth, and is most often not used to perma stealth.

 

i think super simple solution u proof everyone who say stealth is op wrong. play thief reach platnium rank without ever use stealth.

bam u win

[Flowki.7194]

There is no thief spec that I would say is fun to fight, since it all involves cheap target drops/evade, which stop you being able to hit back. The target drop mechanics also means the thief doesnt even have to be good at dodging (and they rearely are), while you have to be dodging their dmg 100%. SPB plays in this same way, only with stuns rather than target drops, which allow the avg SPB to be aweful at dodging other than as a ''random'' filler between a stun or counter effort. Most willbenders are also like this in their openers, face tank everything thanks to their mechanics, and are just bad at dodging. Im not great at it myself, but I take the damage.. thats the difference.

 

So I do find it highly ironic when such specs tell others to ''learn the game and learn to dodge'' when their very own mechanics are so forgiving for being aweful at it themselves, and they normally are..

Edited September 30, 2023 by Flowki.7194

[nuggetjr.6571]

Long time thief pvper here...yes, it is cheesy as hell. I'd much prefer they delete it from the game so I can play anything else and not have to worry about them. 

[KryTiKaL.3125]

8 hours ago, senftube.6081 said:

An other one who doesn't know the mechanics. Thief has stealth attacks like backstab. To nerf that for 50% would be insane. God really guys get better and LEARN the kitten game before you write such kitten.

I'm just curious, and just for the sake of my own edification on the matter possibly, in your opinion how would one "get better and LEARN the game" when dealing with things such as what you are replying to when you cannot even physically see it happening before it happens? I am genuinely curious as to your opinion on it.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

Man when u do like two matches a week and decay to silver and see the players in the matches, their in game performance really makes me think of what I'd imagine most these whiny players play like lmao

[magickthief.6492]

18 hours ago, Buran.3796 said:

  Usally the things which players hate the most are dealing with circumstances in which they have 0 control or ways to deal with, for example: being chainstuned for 8 seconds in Diablo IV.

   GW2 has some combos which allow players to cc foes and then to land heavy burst of damage on them. Stealth highly increases the chances of having success at hitting your foe with the first step of a highly damaging combo with  narrow chances for the changes to prevent the full effect. 

   Imagine playing  a Tekken game in which the Mishima characters could go invisible to land their Electric Wind Godfist...

   Stealth is an overpowered mechanic in GW2, not only in terms of damage but also defensive potential, and is not like doesn't exist in other games, but other games did best at trying to balance that potential.

every class forgets their own unfair enabling mechanics to support the idea that they should lose because of "x". nine times outta ten 9/10, plus a few, players make their complaints in the forums based on losing unexpectadly  after feeling confident in themselves and their "well crafted build". something has to truly vet your build for it to be a "well crafted build". turns out the best players in the game don't come here to whine, they adjust their build with the revelation. unfortunately, most players simply don't do that.

most classes don't die in a one shot to thieves anymore, the damage is simply not their, so REVEALED windows are already naturally there. but potatoes don't sprout. Some classes are not built for sidenoding, they are godlike at teamfighting, and it is often these "off meta" players that want to play their wonky build, that get vetted by thieves, and instead of adapting, they come here expecting to change a hard coded core mechanic of the game, and in today's game, that's asking a lot of the devs.

im confident removal of stealth in an expedient fashion will only murder the thief class single handedly, and maybe some of the weakest in the game desire that, but many players love the archetype, and have put countless hours into improving in the class. Just because a player decided to "try" the class out, doesn't mean they will ever be a threat. There are some things you have to do to become a "good" thief. 

You must know every profession thoroughly. 

You must multi-class

You must read the map, and pay attention to your team mates choices in the game.

You must practice duels in rooms and in the FFA, where things are controlled, and where things are NOT controlled.\

You must lower your pride and learn from better players.

You must learn the map and every weak point for your points, all the jumping puzzles, and what foes will choose to do to avoid you.

You must learn that dueling is 9/10 a waste, and always a waste against another thief if they have a counter build.

Its not just stand by muh support and do my rotation. You got to take your losses and run, the times ticking, and the points need a decapping.

 

[Flowki.7194]

Thief is by far the lowest risk class in the game, their are good thiefs but its impossible for me to respect their skill with such low risks. I have more respect for DHs.. becuase as toxic as traps are, at least they have to go toe to toe now.

 

With the kind of mobility and get out of jail thief has, making it a nion unkillable backapping/+1 machine.. it should have far less damage when it comes to 1v1. A thief shouldnt even be looking to take on a 1v1 unless the guy is like 20%.. thats how weak it should be for the mobility power it has.

Edited October 1, 2023 by Flowki.7194

[magickthief.6492]

9 minutes ago, Flowki.7194 said:

Thief is by far the lowest risk class in the game, their are good thiefs but its impossible for me to respect their skill with such low risks. I have more respect for DHs.. becuase as toxic as traps are, at least they have to go toe to toe now.

 

With the kind of mobility and get out of jail thief has, making it a nion unkillable backapping/+1 machine.. it should have far less damage when it comes to 1v1. A thief shouldnt even be looking to take on a 1v1 unless the guy is like 20%.. thats how weak it should be for the mobility power it has.

. no

also, those good thieves, can probably waffle you on your main with your main. i already explained why

Edited October 1, 2023 by magickthief.6492