Are we really comfortable paying for unfinished expansions?

[Zok.4956]

13 hours ago, IAmNotMatthew.1058 said:

Anet releases expansion with all the content over long cycle: BAD, TOO SLOW, NO EXTRA CONTENT
Anet releases expansion broken up into bits over the same cycle: BAD, TOO LITTLE CONTENT(per release)

If you simplify strongly enough and, for example, lump together different opinions from different players, you can always construct a contradiction, which in reality doesn't necessarily have to be one.

And: Not only can Anet change their mind over time about how the game is released and marketed, but players can also change their mind over time (and after playing the releases) about which variants they like and don't like. These are not contradictions.

Edited November 10, 2023 by Zok.4956

[Jaken.6801]

The first part was good.

This patch, however, was very underwhelming. Story and contentwise.

If the follow up stuff is in the same vein, I don't really feel like we are on the same level as before. It's heavily frontloaded, with a drip fed follow up, if that's the case.

My problem is mostly that the stuff we got with this patch, didn't feel complete. The story feels rushed and the enviromental storytelling not compelling. It's like we missed some crucial points, to push into a Endgame map/meta, without a proper build up.

I like what i see on borad cope, but i don't like how it's done

[Zok.4956]

15 hours ago, Tanuki.4603 said:

Now, wow released their 10.2 patch yesterday, skim thru this page linked below to see how much content they add:
(...)
Its an absurd amount compared to GW2, one patch is way more content than entire soto with 4 updates, they get tons of cosmetics available ingame, tons of customization, meaningful storylines. the story is 10 hours of gameplay + raid and side quests twice the amount of that.

For me this WoW patch is completely overpriced and I would not pay one Euro/Dollar for that - because I don't like WoW and playing WoW is not fun for me.

What I mean by that: If you compare the amount of game content of different games, this is only possible to a very limited extent and you are almost always comparing apples with oranges.

While I'd rather have a big expansion a la HoT or PoF (every year 😉), because I don't particularly like these bite-sized expansion updates, I still think the price for the expansion is still OK.

 

[Zok.4956]

3 minutes ago, Jaken.6801 said:

My problem is mostly that the stuff we got with this patch, didn't feel complete. The story feels rushed and the enviromental storytelling not compelling. It's like we missed some crucial points, to push into a Endgame map/meta, without a proper build up.

Unfortunately, this is a mistake that Anet has made a few times when they initially only published a map as an incomplete part. I would therefore much prefer if Anet only published complete maps instead of several map pieces.

[Wulfhearth.7962]

SotO was great and worth it's money already, even without factoring in the rest of the content.  And i do believe that ANet is already giving us the amount of content they will be able to deliver, while keeping up the quality and not burning their devs out too much.  Therefore i'm sceptical how much just asking for more content can achieve. 

The probably more realistic question I am considering after this patch is: Would i rather have smaller patches more regularly during the 1y expansion cycle or a bigger patch more rarely?  Would it have been better they gave us the just strike CM and convergences this patch and the whole story and map together with the  next update? 

I'll probably have to wait for at least the next patch, more likely one or two full expansion cycles before reaching a conclusive answer. 

Edited November 10, 2023 by Wulfhearth.7962

[Luthan.5236]

You could wait until it is finished - and buy then. This is not that much different from pre-ordering stuff. Also other games offer seasonal passes or something ... where you pay before (for stuff not yet finished) and slowly get DLC delivered at a later date.

Edit: And yes ... it might be more of a problem if the later updates bring stuff you don't like. But I guess that is the whole purpose of this sales model: They know people want to finish stuff early. There is no way a die-hard fan that wants to brag with the latest achievements and skins ... would wait until the last update of the expansion got released. (To decide whether to buy or not buy it. But they buy everything anyways lol. :D)

Edited November 10, 2023 by Luthan.5236

[Jaken.6801]

7 minutes ago, Zok.4956 said:

Unfortunately, this is a mistake that Anet has made a few times when they initially only published a map as an incomplete part. I would therefore much prefer if Anet only published complete maps instead of several map pieces.

I don't mind a map opening up, as long as there is enough content or story in that part of the map.

The IBS expansion was great. Each part had enough content to stay on it's own. The story there didn't have many holes or felt too rushed, etc.

The current patch more or less just dumps us in the new endgame map, without much aclimatisation. etc.

The map is mostly barren. Aside from the meta, there is just random lore to find and some events. It's the minimum you can do with a map and that's what hurts

[Luthan.5236]

IBS did grind-lock the last story parts though ... enforcing you to do a full set of 10 or so ... boring and lengthy DRMs. (While the Dragonstorm was a bit fun.) Here the convergences are super tedious. But not needed for the story. (That one part hinting at them was pretty fast.) And the actual story  step being finished fast - feels less annoying than it being a boring grind.

Best would have been if it was actually fun. The "castle" with the last boss ... being something where you explore and do some puzzles and stuff. (Like a mini version of the Joko thing.) Map is fine though. I bet we'll get the western part next. The middle part will be the last one. (Castle of the big boss.)

[Kranlor Greyhelm.8417]

A "patch" that you can finish in a fraction of the evening that it drops? Story and map?

Sorry, but this is pathetic. If this had been part of the initial expansion, then maybe that would have started to feel like an actual expansion. Instead we're scraping the butter across the bread so thinly that it's barely visible.

If this is how ANET intend to release content in the future, then they've seen the last of my money. I was happy to throw cash in their direction regularly when it felt like they still had an intent to deliver. That intent feels like it has gone. What they are delivering isn't good enough, in terms of breadth or quality. If they don't seem to be bothered about the game, why should I be?

[vares.8457]

7 minutes ago, Kranlor Greyhelm.8417 said:

A "patch" that you can finish in a fraction of the evening that it drops? Story and map?

I don’t want to have to waste many hours on story and map. I mainly play WvW and instanced content, so not having to spend much time in boring open world is good. 

[ugrakarma.9416]

Wow is trash.

Edited November 10, 2023 by ugrakarma.9416

[Splat.7981]

14 hours ago, BlueJin.4127 said:

While you make some good points, I don’t think comparing to WoW is fair. You can buy SotO for less than 2 months of WoW subscription (US currency), and that’s not even counting having to buy WoW expansions separately. In terms of value, GW2 outdoes WoW.

No  you don't need to buy WOW expansions separately, if you buy the latest you get access to all the previous expansions.

Edited November 10, 2023 by Splat.7981

[Splat.7981]

8 minutes ago, ugrakarma.9416 said:

Wow is trash.

For many out there it isn't. 
GW2 isn't perfect either.

[Pomdepin.7068]

16 hours ago, Tanuki.4603 said:

People have sour taste after this patch beacuse the story is less than old living world, we don't even get full map like old living world and strike got barely any work done besides a copypaste mechanic from a previous strike, and is extremely easy even for pug groups.  We've paid for an unfinished expansion without any feature and it only shows now how empty this patch will be, since we cannot even work further to progress our legendary armor like with the last patch, and the wait for the next update is twice as it was for this. Let's not forget the last fractal realease bugged for months with kittened up scaling as it was a scrapped strike.

Now, wow released their 10.2 patch yesterday, skim thru this page linked below to see how much content they add:

https://www.wowhead.com/guide/dragonflight-patch-10-2-guardians-of-the-dream-overview

Its an absurd amount compared to GW2, one patch is way more content than entire soto with 4 updates, they get tons of cosmetics available ingame, tons of customization, meaningful storylines. the story is 10 hours of gameplay + raid and side quests twice the amount of that.

 

Are we really comfortable with the current ANet approach being the right future for GW2? Paying for unifnished expansions that bring very little every 3-4 months? There has to be a better way to deliver content.

Let's face it. New expansions are just a rebranded LW with functional features on top (ex: weapon mastery).

Now, unfinished, I don't think so. Even WoW makes unfinished expansions then. It's fragmented expansions, one big release and major update patches. Exactly like WoW.

Now the questions lies in the amount of content we get with each patch, which might be lesser than WoW on this one, but remember Anet's team and budget is just a tiny amount of Blizzard's. Also, WoW players pay a monthly sub to get this, on top of the cashshop.

All in all, I really don't think we lose anything compared to WoW, I still prefer GW2 way more. This feeling of worthiness will differ from people to people, I guess.

[Balsa.3951]

50 minutes ago, vares.8457 said:

I don’t want to have to waste many hours on story and map. I mainly play WvW and instanced content, so not having to spend much time in boring open world is good. 

best in ur case is don't buy any expansion anymore and play 100% wvw. u safe money and get everything u want

[Trejgon.9367]

17 hours ago, Tanuki.4603 said:

since we cannot even work further to progress our legendary armor like with the last patch

That is incorrect, Oneiros-spun armor set is part of precursor collections for Obsydian Armor, therefore even if we assume you did everything that was possible to do with base soto release prior of through the veil releasing, you do have new things to progress in that subject with new release.

12 hours ago, fatihso.7258 said:

Black Desert Online, another mmo which is b2p same as gw2. They don’t even charge for their expansions and they always deliver content and refine their game for past and future systems. 

Black Desert Online also:

- locks the visual customisation of your character behind a paywall,

- visual outfits have their own stat bonuses,

- heavilly encourage spending even more irl cash to progress your gear,

- features 3 additional subscriptions with big benefits over players without them,

- has much inferior network infrastructre, coupled with much more timining-sensitive action combat, which highlight all the issues (that they have done virtually nothing to improve on over last 5-6 years),

- have regular downtimes,

- grand most of paid stuff is tied to that one specific character you unpacked it on,

- has multiple systems designed specifically to induce FOMO in their playerbase,

- single outfit set in BDO costs approx 40 USD to obtain, vs most of GW2 costumes being under 10USD, with some outliers spiking to approx 15, just to outline to sheer scale of difference on premium store pricing between the two,

So be carefull what do you put as a role model, because GW2 has alot of room to degrade to try to finance what you are asking for.

[Tanuki.4603]

1 hour ago, ugrakarma.9416 said:

Wow is trash.

Can you really say that WoW is trash when the main long-term content of Soto is kittening Rifts? I don't know anyone that genuinely wants to do them past the first week of playing.

Non-expansion updates contain less than 45 minutes of story, each.

All the new weapon-proficiency teaser have used solely re-used animations with nothing new being added whatsoever.

WoW is not ideal, Blizzard is problematic but you cannot call that game trash, objectively while comparing their content to what ArenaNet delivers and playing GW2 actively.

 

[DarcShriek.5829]

In this case I am comfortable.  ANet informed me of what I was getting before I paid my money.  Also, why I initially received  for my purchase was satisfactory.  If you didn't find the purchase to be of adequate value, then you should probably stop purchasing GW2 expansions.

[Futa.4375]

13 hours ago, Morvran.8265 said:

I have a feeling Anet started releasing new weapon teasers a day after the patch to shift attention away from it. They probably expected people to be disappointed and don't want us talking about the patch.

The same way they announced the next "expansion" right after EoD's debacle, they know exactly what they are doing.

[Zzik.5873]

The only thing that I absolutly hate about soto... if you know me youve already guess........

 

 

 

THEY TOOK AWAY MY GOLEM!!!!

Soto is a 0/10

But if my golem come back, I would considere giving it more like a solid 8.5/10

[Cyninja.2954]

6 hours ago, Tanuki.4603 said:

Can you really say that WoW is trash when the main long-term content of Soto is kittening Rifts? I don't know anyone that genuinely wants to do them past the first week of playing.

Non-expansion updates contain less than 45 minutes of story, each.

All the new weapon-proficiency teaser have used solely re-used animations with nothing new being added whatsoever.

WoW is not ideal, Blizzard is problematic but you cannot call that game trash, objectively while comparing their content to what ArenaNet delivers and playing GW2 actively.

 

Guild Wars 2 having issues does not make WoW better. That entire train of thought is backwards. If you enjoy WoW, good for you. The game passed its prime more than 10 years ago.

Blizzard and the way they milk their player base though is not subjective. The company is objectively one of the worst in regards to cost and scummy monetization practices, even surpassing EA by now.

If you want to hold games to a higher standard, then do so across the board and don't be selective in what you criticize.

[Malus.2184]

On 11/9/2023 at 7:16 PM, Tanuki.4603 said:

People have sour taste...

Begin with "some" your experience and interpretation is different from others.

[azorean.1850]

go play WoW then?

[Tanuki.4603]

1 hour ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

If you enjoy WoW, good for you. The game passed its prime more than 10 years

GW2 is in end of development cycle... we get reused animations on every weapon proficiency incoming and the story we just got was half the old living world episode...

[Linken.6345]

11 minutes ago, Tanuki.4603 said:

GW2 is in end of development cycle... we get reused animations on every weapon proficiency incoming and the story we just got was half the old living world episode...

Well they did add in this in each blogpost so maybe not this time.

 

Please keep in mind that during this beta test there will be temporary UI, art, and audio assets for some of the weapon skills.