Shields don't feel super defensive.

[Antycypator.9874]

Shields seem to be little forgotten in this game. It's a defensive weapon that just doesn't feel defensive enough, mostly because no one need a shield that can be used only once per 20-30s. Shields need to be usable more often — and solution for this is easy. Every skill that can block for 2-3s should be reworked into block for 1s, but with 2-3 charges, so you can block more frequently. Would it be better?

Warrior's Shield Stance — perfect skill to rework like this. Instead of 3s block, just make it 3 charges, 1s block each.

Guardian's Shield of Judgment and Shield of Absorption — actually fairly balanced support skills.

Engineer's Static Shield — hard to tell if it's good or not. It doesn't make sense to stun your enemy while blocking; sure, Static Shield can melt breakbars, but if player's shield can't absorb any damage because it's enemy is stunned, then it's a wasted skill.

Mesmer's Echo of Memory — imo one of the best defensive skills. Timing is rewarding, so if player manage to block damage, it can block again.

Revenant's Crystal Hibernation — it could use 2-3 charges that rewards a player for blocking damage with healing.

 

[ShadowStep.3640]

Shield is a fun weapon imo but a little all over the place in terms of power budget across the different professions that have it. I love Mesmer shield as the 4 skill is very powerful but the 5 skill is underwhelming. 

[AliamRationem.5172]

2 hours ago, Antycypator.9874 said:

Shields seem to be little forgotten in this game. It's a defensive weapon that just doesn't feel defensive enough, mostly because no one need a shield that can be used only once per 20-30s. Shields need to be usable more often — and solution for this is easy. Every skill that can block for 2-3s should be reworked into block for 1s, but with 2-3 charges, so you can block more frequently. Would it be better?

Warrior's Shield Stance — perfect skill to rework like this. Instead of 3s block, just make it 3 charges, 1s block each.

Guardian's Shield of Judgment and Shield of Absorption — actually fairly balanced support skills.

Engineer's Static Shield — hard to tell if it's good or not. It doesn't make sense to stun your enemy while blocking; sure, Static Shield can melt breakbars, but if player's shield can't absorb any damage because it's enemy is stunned, then it's a wasted skill.

Mesmer's Echo of Memory — imo one of the best defensive skills. Timing is rewarding, so if player manage to block damage, it can block again.

Revenant's Crystal Hibernation — it could use 2-3 charges that rewards a player for blocking damage with healing.

 

I think the defense and CC that you tend to find on shields are quite strong.  The reason they don't get used all that much is because damage is often prioritized over these effects.  And rightly so.  If I can get the job done while dealing more damage, why wouldn't I?  It's a shame though.  I'd love to get more use out of shields.  They have some really nice skins!

[Randulf.7614]

Warrior shield is very strong. Guardian shield is a nice idea, but seems to throwback to a design hat didn’t quite catch on

[Doggie.3184]

Wait till Thief gets Captain America shield and bonks you unconcious on back of head with it.

[Batalix.2873]

In general the current design team has done a poor job of (a) preserving and designing around non-DPS space and (b) making sure offhand support weapons are still relevant.

We haven't had a shield or warhorn espec since Heart of Thorns. We haven't *ever* had a focus espec. And yet despite all this, they decided to add nothing but mainhand and attack weapons. I can barely give Ranger OH mace a pass because we only ever had one mace espec, but I think Guardian pistol and OH Necro sword are just totally pointless additions. Necro should have had a shield offhand; it is *the* tank mage.

[Eekasqueak.7850]

I use Guardian shield plenty when I play support so I disagree that it's bad. We haven't really had an offense based shield yet which could be interesting. 

[Yaki.9563]

2 hours ago, Eekasqueak.7850 said:

I use Guardian shield plenty when I play support so I disagree that it's bad. We haven't really had an offense based shield yet which could be interesting. 

You use it because there's nothing better, not because it's necessarily good.

[Linken.6345]

6 minutes ago, Yaki.9563 said:

You use it because there's nothing better, not because it's necessarily good.

Oh focus is way better on guardian.

[Cernow.3974]

12 hours ago, Eekasqueak.7850 said:

I use Guardian shield plenty when I play support so I disagree that it's bad. We haven't really had an offense based shield yet which could be interesting. 

My Guardian is offensive support (with offhand torch) primarily because shield really isn't worth the bother. Shield just doesn't bring enough to the table compared to other offhand options, particularly torch. I've not even considered using Shield on any other class than Guardian and it's a rare thing to see other players using. Definitely needs a rethink.

[Darklord Roy.2514]

4 minutes ago, Cernow.3974 said:

My Guardian is offensive support (with offhand torch) primarily because shield really isn't worth the bother. Shield just doesn't bring enough to the table compared to other offhand options, particularly torch. I've not even considered using Shield on any other class than Guardian and it's a rare thing to see other players using. Definitely needs a rethink.

If we're talking strictly PvE sure, shield isn't all that great. Herald shield is one of the few exceptions that's actually good and relevant after the 11/28 update. Engineer shield is meta in raid support almost exclusively for the protection uptime. Mesmer shield is just okay. All other shields are just kinda "meh" in PvE.

Completely the opposite in competitive modes. Warrior shield is legitimately fantastic in PvP when used on lockdown power builds. Guardian shield is *the* meta offhand for group support in zergs because it kinda does everything you want for a frontline support. Engi shield can completely shred stability in blob fights when used properly.

All in all, shields have never ever been a damage oriented weapon, so they are inherently weaker in the majority of PvE content which is more centered around doing higher damage instead of having higher passive defences. We have enough damage-centric offhand options that shields still fill the nice niche of higher defensive and supportive options when they're needed (again, not a PvE centric weapon).

[jason.1083]

20 hours ago, Antycypator.9874 said:

Engineer's Static Shield — hard to tell if it's good or not. It doesn't make sense to stun your enemy while blocking; sure, Static Shield can melt breakbars, but if player's shield can't absorb any damage because it's enemy is stunned, then it's a wasted skill.

In PvE it melts breakbars and interacts with CC activated effects, some builds can make much use out of that, Scrapper could really use it with Relic of the Midnight King to pump out Fury, something that they've been asking since Rune of the Pack got mutilated.

In PvP and WvW it's a great way to shave off stability off multiple people, since it's basically Shocking Aura but with no CD between stuns. This can range from a 1v1 fight against a person with a lot of Stability or literally walking into a sizable enemy squad in WvW and inflict a mass Stability loss.

That's why it makes sense.

[RagiNagi.1802]

14 hours ago, Eekasqueak.7850 said:

I use Guardian shield plenty when I play support so I disagree that it's bad. We haven't really had an offense based shield yet which could be interesting. 

yeah, dual wield shields for warrior. Lets go!

[Cuks.8241]

Warrior and engie shield are more of a pvp weapons and just really good at it. Full dmg block, reflects and hard cc.

[Voyant.1327]

On 12/5/2023 at 2:03 PM, Antycypator.9874 said:

Mesmer's Echo of Memory — imo one of the best defensive skills. Timing is rewarding, so if player manage to block damage, it can block again.

 

Thing is there's just no benefit to taking shield on Mesmer. You can acquire Aegis so often that there's no need to waste two slots for it. Mesmer Shield imo is the worst weapon in the game bc it does absolutely nothing for a class with distortion and aegis so accessible. 

I remember being excited for shield as a big fan of defensive play style...  But virtually every other offhand is better by a wide margin.

Its a support weapon but doesn't really feel like a benefit to support is my issue with it. 

 

[bossdonut.1938]

there should be a class that can use 2 shields main and off hand

[LadyKitty.6120]

On 12/6/2023 at 12:03 AM, Antycypator.9874 said:

Shields seem to be little forgotten in this game. It's a defensive weapon that just doesn't feel defensive enough, mostly because no one need a shield that can be used only once per 20-30s. Shields need to be usable more often — and solution for this is easy. Every skill that can block for 2-3s should be reworked into block for 1s, but with 2-3 charges, so you can block more frequently. Would it be better?

Warrior's Shield Stance — perfect skill to rework like this. Instead of 3s block, just make it 3 charges, 1s block each.

Guardian's Shield of Judgment and Shield of Absorption — actually fairly balanced support skills.

Engineer's Static Shield — hard to tell if it's good or not. It doesn't make sense to stun your enemy while blocking; sure, Static Shield can melt breakbars, but if player's shield can't absorb any damage because it's enemy is stunned, then it's a wasted skill.

Mesmer's Echo of Memory — imo one of the best defensive skills. Timing is rewarding, so if player manage to block damage, it can block again.

Revenant's Crystal Hibernation — it could use 2-3 charges that rewards a player for blocking damage with healing.

 

Umm, no ty. Problem with 1s block is that it'd cause severe timing issues against certain mechanics and would kinda guarantee that less exp tanks would get downed by Mind Crush at Deimos. It also wouldn't be long enough against Xera's Blurred Frenzy and would also make handkiting on certain classes noticeably more painful. (for ex. herald and spellbreaker greatly benefits from 3s block to stack 5 hands while getting heals from Relic of Defender). And at Matthias, that 3s reflect is kinda mandatory if backup reflect.

[kiroho.4738]

On 12/5/2023 at 11:03 PM, Antycypator.9874 said:

It's a defensive weapon

Oh, is it?
In GW2 many weapons don't get used the "classic" way.
We have a ranged hammer, a ranged greatsword, a healing rifle, melee scepter, a projectile shooting dagger and more.
It's the same for shield. It's not just a "block provider".

While shield in general indeed has more defensive/supportive abilities, it's still a weapon you use actively. Not just an item you use to block whenever you need it.

No, shields are fine in this game.

[Sirvaleen.1379]

42 minutes ago, kiroho.4738 said:

No, shields are fine in this game.

I wouldn't go that far. While the debate about them being offensive or defensive doesn't make sense to me ; a well-designed weapon can be both imho, in group content in PvE shield is scarcely an option. Its underuse is understandable but still a letdown for shield-enthusiasts. In the spirit of promoting diversity in builds, I think it would be nice to have shield as a viable alternative on boon dps supports, and not a weapon you only remember in niche situations once in a blue moon. I'm doubtful we'll ever get such a thing though 🤷‍♂️

[Phyb.6704]

The problem is that shield should be a "oh kitten button". To save yourself with a weapon swap and negate or block. THE PROBLEM is the stuff you generally would use said "oh kitten button" for tends to also be unblockable. Such as a fractal boss big aoe hit. Since anything that is blockable you can also just dodge and you can dodge 2 hits every what 10sec about? I could be wrong. But its better then one block in 20sec.
We have tons that can do what a shield does. So unless shields let you block the unblockable.... They are just an extra dodge or distortion. Nothing special. 

Or

Let shields have skills like shield bash with a small cooldown. This could give confusion condi or something like that. Then they could be worked into some fun builds. 

[kiroho.4738]

On 12/7/2023 at 12:43 PM, Sirvaleen.1379 said:

a well-designed weapon can be both imho, in group content in PvE shield is scarcely an option.

Shield is meta for heal Mech.
It's meta for heal Firebrand.
It's meta for heal Herald.
It's the weapon of choice for the new heal Chrono builds (-> most likely will become meta).
Only Warrior don't use it.

4 out of 5 is not really scarcerly.
And giving them all a generic ammo block skill would only make them worse.

Edited December 9, 2023 by kiroho.4738

[ShadowStep.3640]

On 12/6/2023 at 4:03 PM, Voyant.1327 said:

Thing is there's just no benefit to taking shield on Mesmer. You can acquire Aegis so often that there's no need to waste two slots for it. Mesmer Shield imo is the worst weapon in the game bc it does absolutely nothing for a class with distortion and aegis so accessible. 

I remember being excited for shield as a big fan of defensive play style...  But virtually every other offhand is better by a wide margin.

Its a support weapon but doesn't really feel like a benefit to support is my issue with it. 

 

Yes you are right if referring to PVE, but in WvW (dont play SPVP so cant say) Shield is meta on a lot of mesmer builds. Chrono commanders for zergs are very common and they all run shield. I run a power Virt build meant to blow someone up and i still run shield due to how powerful the number 4 skill is. 

Shields in PVE are weak but thats because the game has, over the years, moved away from everyone providing their own survivability to having roles provide that for you. When you have someone in your instanced group pumping aegis and healing out of course shield is not going to be much use. In Openworld content its a matter of taste, and in all other content it just depends. 

 

People dont understand that not every weapon needs to be meta or even viable in every situation. To have that reality be true would be to make all weapons boring and lacking in character and depth. 

[asket.5674]

On 12/6/2023 at 2:18 AM, Doggie.3184 said:

Wait till Thief gets Captain America shield and bonks you unconcious on back of head with it.

Lol axe and shield will be the lovechild of cap and thor then

[Lucy.3728]

I use shield on my holo engi in pve (similar to this: https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Holosmith_-_Power_Holo).
Since my dmg comes from the photon forge mode anyway, I don't need an offensive offset item when out of the forge mode. (I could switch to a kit anyway if I need even more offensive skills)
I like its cc. When I need to escape because I overestimated myself or added too many enemies while fighting & moving it helps me too.

I'd like a ranged (minimum 900) main hand weapon for my warrior so I could finally get rid of the riffle, as ranged backup weapon, and switch to shield as off hand.

Edited December 9, 2023 by Lucy.3728

[Knighthonor.4061]

On 12/5/2023 at 7:27 PM, AliamRationem.5172 said:

I think the defense and CC that you tend to find on shields are quite strong.  The reason they don't get used all that much is because damage is often prioritized over these effects.  And rightly so.  If I can get the job done while dealing more damage, why wouldn't I?  It's a shame though.  I'd love to get more use out of shields.  They have some really nice skins!

Well I been point out this problem since HoT and elite specs. the damage has been way too high compared to the vanilla game. It killed the customization in some ways since DPS became even more king than it originally was when Support was just poorly built into the vanilla game. This game is built on design flaws that just added on with some more design problems with band-aids fixes.