The new meta just feels not fun

[yoni.7015]

33 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

You mean, it will get better when most players will stop bothering with it? Because that's what happened to Soo Won.

That’s not what happened with Soo Won. 

[Manasa Devi.7958]

I had a successful run first time I did it. Disastrous run second try. I don’t need anything further from this meta and didn't really enjoy it. I'll try again in a few weeks, when people are (presumably) better at it. I value my time too much to waste on a repeat disaster like that second run. 

[Sjentra.3409]

Honestly i see this being abandoned in a few weeks just because of the massive time commitment. 
The boss is nothing but a health sponge and the floor is just a mess of colors from all the aoes and effects.

Maybe if they tuned down the portal spam so you didn't have to kill a champion plus close a rift every 30 seconds it might be doable without 30+ competent people.

For people thinking the rewards will save it; you have to remember it's competing with 40-50+g/h fishing; so unless the drop rate of the infusions is atleast 5%+, that crowd will be doing other things. And without a dedicated time slot; most people at reset will be doing other things as well; which means about the only way it'll get done will be with organization off game.

[voltaicbore.8012]

3 hours ago, Sjentra.3409 said:

For people thinking the rewards will save it; you have to remember it's competing with 40-50+g/h fishing; so unless the drop rate of the infusions is atleast 5%+, that crowd will be doing other things.

Yeah I was one of the ones saying "if the rewards are good enough, maybe I'll go for some more clears," but you said it best: it's up against very stiff competition. It's really hard for a "still needs work" meta from a lackluster xpac to compete with the 40g/hr fishies.

[luigiormario.7305]

I do agree that relying on completion of the two previous metas to trigger it (which themselves rely on completed events to trigger) does seem to lock out many time-poor gamers from regular attempts. I think having more challenging/coordinated metas such as this is a good thing, but similar to what happened with Soo-Won such a large time investment to retry after each failure isn't an appealing factor. Though achieving the right balance in open world is evidently more difficult than just getting the map to /gg as with raids or strikes after a wipe. 

[Trejgon.9367]

My personal thought so far after a 50-50 success rate, are that in general I mostly enjoy the whole experience of nayos conglomerate of metas, but the new third stage indeed has some issues.

The first stage of citadel assault requires masteries to participate in - you simply have to use updrafts on skyscale to even hope of delivering bombs to the places they need to be. This stage is also poorly explained in the game as well. Second stage is mildly chaotic but the effort to explain it was made.

First boss seems fine, the mechanic of not get hit by the puddle and if you do, go to the cleaning pot to wash off debuff could be explained better.
No the first big-ish issue is that pact emergency waypoint should move to the first boss platform after it has been cleaned.
Descent on side towers is fine, and bosses there try to teach people new mechanics that will become relevant in the final boss, but there is not enough time within single run for most people to get a grasp of what is needed, as bosses die somewhat fast and only one of them require interaction with mechanic to go down.

Final boss.... Well it is visual overload, no sugarcoating it. There is simply too much going on at any given time, I don't feel like it needs as much coordination as soo-won did to succeed, but it need enough people knowing using the essences mechanic, enough people on rift duty, and enough people not dying to constant swarm of waves and the funny pattern attack of the main boss to succeed. Additionally, while shortcuts through towers when coming back do exist, they are obscured when coming back, meaning that untill you learn exactly where they are, you are going to go through the whole tower to get back to the fight. Their location should be highlighted better, and that along with emergency waypoint moving to the first boss platform should make it more bearable to wp when you die. Ultimatelly the metas I personally failed, have a common theme of general dps being on the low side, people dying, refusing to wp andjust staying dead under the boss, and then everyone starts panicking and crap collapses. And I personally still have no idea what are the effects of which emotion essence and what is the correct method of solving that mechanic while at it.

Outside of reducing sheer amount of visual noise in that particular fight, I could see a reduction in rift spawn rates a definitive need. Even at the best of runs, that kept the best track of closing them, the new one spawning as soon as previous one got closed, leaving rift squad virtually no room to contribute to the pressure against the eparch himself.

[Caitmonster.9036]

Yeah I'm at 1:3 Win:Loss and I feel like Eparch is way overtuned at the moment for the average pug map. He feels even tankier than Soo-Won with a breakbar that's more difficult to break even if you take the extra buff and people go wild with their CCs. For a boss that's stationary and doesn't do all that much save for some cracks on the floor and some puddles, all that extra HP just makes it a slog. The portal/add spam is pretty excessive as well, I think tuning the frequency of the spawns down a little wouldn't hurt. Keep everything else as it is - I don't mind the Souless Horror style walls that come through or the Matthias fountain cleanse mechanic or the pickup buffs.

The wind-up for the meta isn't that bad compared to something like Dragon's End or launch-era Dragon's Stand IMO, but a waypoint inside or near Zakiros (not just an EWP that spawns at the coliseum) might be nice to have.

[Bris.7984]

Unless they do some tuning to lower the values of idea of doing the meta in CM...I wont touch it again!I think Anet tested it with the wrong version of ARC DPS.. if they ever tested it..

[AliamRationem.5172]

It seems okay to me.  I've only done it twice, but both attempts completed without issue.  I think once enough people are familiar with the mechanics failures on a full map will be rare.  It doesn't strike me as requiring the level of preparation or organization that Soo Won usually does.

As for the fight mechanics.  Pretty boring and repetitive.  I loved the Soo Won fight because there's so much going on, the music, the voice work.  I don't feel as much effort went into this one. 

I also dislike the long pre event cycle, which also ruined Soo Won for me.  I wish they'd stop with metas that expect players to block off an hour or more for less reward than a quick meta like AB.  It really doesn't feel fun or rewarding, so even if the fight itself is epic like Soo Won, I end up getting the achievements and never going back.

[ugrakarma.9416]

The meta seems "easy" to me, but i barely can see whats happening.. i was carried?(the group was almost first timers)

i just dps the boss, but i see ppl walking around(i dont understand why)....

the reddish fog make graphics slow too.

[Player.2475]

I tried it over 10 times and never saw it succeed. I blame the players more than the balancing -- every time 90% of the squad had less than 5k dps, failed most of the mechanics, 10+ people were fully dead and refusing to use waypoints while 5+ people were wasting their time to rez them only to die themselves, and and the boss STILL got below 20% hp!

So, if the DPS was even slightly better, people did SOME mechanics, and 20% of the map stopped just boosting the boss' health pool while contributing nothing to the fight, it would succeed every time.

Update: Just had the event succeed with 7 minutes left on the timer. What was different? People actually closed rifts, respawned if they died, and the dps builds actually had 15k+ dps.

Edited May 25 by Player.2475

[Donari.5237]

I've done it twice, both succeeded.  The second time was much easier for me personally, for a few reasons, but the main reason was that I swapped my graphics to Best Performance instead of Best Appearance.  It made everything dull and matte looking but I could see what was going on and didn't go to 6 fps slideshow misery.  My first run was super hard to figure out what all the flat blue rectangles were trying to tell me or where the bad stuff on the floor was.  Even ley-lines were slanted long skinny blue boxes.

I agree that it can take a lot of time in the map to even get to the fight.  I was lucky each time to just stumble on a Knaebeleg fight for a quick lead in while I was in the map for other reasons.  And I haaaate the color palette in there.  It's all dark and red and oppressive.  Which suits the setting, but I don't even care for "autumnal" maps like Ascalon, so this is wearisome to be immersed in.  I do think it will become much smoother and readily pugged over time, to the point players may think it's been nerfed when it's just players getting muscle memory on what to do.

[Edge.1653]

Another attempt, another dismal failure with no hope of success, with half the map staying dead in the final room screwing everyone over because nobody wants to make the stupid 2 minute run back along leylines and nonsense. I swear, it's like Anet has no clue how disorganized players are in the open world and didn't test this.

I'm trying to enjoy this garbage update and this meta is absolutely killing any motivation I have to even play the game. It's the only part of this underwhelming update I haven't completed and it feels like slamming my face into a brick wall.

People who spend more than like 20% of the fight dead on the floor should be ineligible for loot. I can't believe that Anet is still designing open world metas as if the average player is capable of doing more than pressing autoattack while desperately trying not to drool on their keyboard. 

[Chyro.1462]

Just as an info for those that may be not aware: You can use the blood pool to remove an essence effect so that you can take a different one. If you end up with one you don't like, or want to grab a specific one.

[Randulf.7614]

I'd like it if both Ixnaxious and Knaelborg both gave a meta chest

[Edge.1653]

Still a 0% completion rate, and it's not even close most of the time. Just failbus from start to finish with people staying dead and the whole encounter, while aweome in concept, designed for a completely different playerbase that's competent and hasn't been trained for a decade to do nothing and complete boss fights.

The amount of time required to complete the first two metas just to fail at the last one is honestly a dreaful, dismal, awful waste of time. Just an hour down the drain with little to show for it given that we've already spent 3-6 months getting rewards from the first two steps.

Seriously, this fight genuinely makes me hate other players and wonder if the designers actually play these metas and enjoy the frequent failbusing.

[Randulf.7614]

Certainly interesting watching the fail/completion rates. I'm 4:5 win/loss now. I've see random pugs do better than organised runs and 3 losses have barely made it past 50% health whilst others have obliterated the boss with time to spare and no commanding/strategy in place

[Cuks.8241]

I find the meta quite good. Overall its a bit long, the Wyrvem pre-meta boss could be shaved, one phase less, we dont need to kill the champs twice. Maybe shave some other pre events also.

The Skyscale shenanigans during the last part are ok, quite fun. 

The final encounter is good. Its not a complete loot pinata, the difficulty is spot on for the final meta boss. The visual, ambience is good allthough poorly optimized.

[Farohna.6247]

6 minutes ago, Randulf.7614 said:

Certainly interesting watching the fail/completion rates. I'm 4:5 win/loss now. I've see random pugs do better than organised runs and 3 losses have barely made it past 50% health whilst others have obliterated the boss with time to spare and no commanding/strategy in place

I'm currently 3 of 4 wins (excluding one run that bugged).  I casually commanded a pug group last night, just broke them up into two big groups with alac/qdps divided between them.  One group on boss, one group on portals.  People are understanding the fight better, and people are explaining as we go about the buffs and what is needed.   And I think some are understanding that they really are not going to get a rez and use the waypoint lol.  

I completely agree it's interesting to see.  Don't be afraid to ask what the heck is going on, what you're supposed to do, or for any clarification.   It's new, that's very reasonable.  

The majority of the groups I've succeeded with did all three metas, only filling in a few from LFG as needed.   Maybe that helps, they're on a roll and want to succeed lol.   

[Randulf.7614]

20 minutes ago, Farohna.6247 said:

I'm currently 3 of 4 wins (excluding one run that bugged).  I casually commanded a pug group last night, just broke them up into two big groups with alac/qdps divided between them.  One group on boss, one group on portals.  People are understanding the fight better, and people are explaining as we go about the buffs and what is needed.   And I think some are understanding that they really are not going to get a rez and use the waypoint lol.  

I completely agree it's interesting to see.  Don't be afraid to ask what the heck is going on, what you're supposed to do, or for any clarification.   It's new, that's very reasonable.  

The majority of the groups I've succeeded with did all three metas, only filling in a few from LFG as needed.   Maybe that helps, they're on a roll and want to succeed lol.   

I know what's going on with it (now), but there's no pattern to how it wins. Ive had full metas fail, pugs succeed, organised fail utterly. 

I do think the difference seems to be dps and people knowing how to clear consumed debuffs and move out of the aoe attacks. I like it and the pre events do teach the mechanics, but people aren't accustomed to them. Also, until Anet stop throwing visual noise and start listening on this issue, its hard for people to keep on so many things at once in big events. Mechanics are great, but when visual pollution hides them and they're all going of att once, I sympathise with many people who can't see whats going on

 

Edited May 26 by Randulf.7614

[Farohna.6247]

10 minutes ago, Randulf.7614 said:

I know what's going on with it (now), but there's no pattern to how it wins. Ive had full metas fail, pugs succeed, organised fail utterly. 

I do think the difference seems to be dps and people knowing how to clear consumed debuffs and move out of the aoe attacks. I like it and the pre events do teach the mechanics, but people aren't accustomed to them. Also, until Anet stop throwing visual noise and start listening on this issue, its hard for people to keep on so many things at once in big events. Mechanics are great, but when visual pollution hides them and they're all going of att once, I sympathise with many people who can't see whats going on

 

Absolutely on the visual clutter.   I still have trouble seeing everything, and I don't have lag issues or framerate trouble.   It's definitely crowded in there.  

[DanAlcedo.3281]

Have not failed the meta so far. Did it like 10 times now. 

If you don't do the portals, it a dps golem. 

Just stand beneath the boss and do your rotation for 10min.

You don't even need to move, except 2 step to the left/right when an aoe spawns under you. 

Heck, I stood Afk going 1111 under the boss yesterday while doing the laundry. Didn't die. 

[ugrakarma.9416]

2 sucessfull runs.

inst complicated, just need a group to close rifts.

Its like Kaineng Overlook strike: the difficult dont come from mechanics, but from visual cluttering, too much dark red everywhere, aside that,  is really a easy fight.

Edited May 27 by ugrakarma.9416

[Blade Syphon.4325]

On 5/24/2024 at 9:22 AM, Mirta.5029 said:

What's your class, build, server and who are you playing with? 

I literally said - in my original post - that I play a Berserk Warrior: http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?PKxAceNlRwuYOsFmJO+WatKA-DSIYR0xHGRVQVKYeWoAhqHeLRsCKVA-e

I pugged all my attempts on whatever map instance I ended up joining up to when I found a group that was on the Fang encounter so I could quickly jump back into the Eparch fight after the first two attempts failed. That's it - that's the most organization I did for the fight. Found an instance, joined the instance, killed the boss using a build that actually works.

That is *literally* the only thing this fight asks of you outside of obeying the very simple mechanics of  "Kill adds, get Buff, kill boss, don't stand in bad things".

On 5/24/2024 at 9:22 AM, Mirta.5029 said:

In all of the attempts today with 10-15 players on portals, we still struggled to keep them at 1 open at a time, so whenever it would get disregulated even a little, there were easily 2-3 portals and boss started collecting buffs. 

If your group was struggling to close portals with 15 people attacking the champion, and you had three portals up at any given time, that says more about the players your instance had, and not the fight. The only time I saw anything even remotely resembling that was when I first attempted the Meta after the Fangs that Gnash fight got fixed, and none of us had any idea what the hell we were doing. If "all your attempts" were ending like this, then you had an instance either filled with leechers, no one was actually killing the champions, or even more comically, no one closed the portal after the champion died.

And even then, I have an extremely hard time believing any of that is true, given that all it takes is for one person in the raid to say "Hey, guys, go kill the champ by the portal please", and the champion will fall over. I don't even have time to get a full rotation of abilities on the thing before it dies more often then not.

The second fail came from us timing out at 5% because people refused to run back, but the portals were never open for longer than a few seconds, and we never had more than one.

The third, fourth, and fifth attempts all went flawlessly because people got their buff, murdered the portals, and beat on the target dummy that is Eparch.

On 5/24/2024 at 9:22 AM, Mirta.5029 said:

In the parties that I tried it in, nobody could even go for DPS puddles due to the amount of AoEs and difficulty staying alive, so life-steal was in and recommended on map chat often in order to combat the mass deaths. 

Or, and hear me out on this, your raid could spread out and not stack up, and then you don't have to worry about puddles overlapping and doing more damage. Again, I'm a Berserker Warrior, I used the DPS buff (which makes me take MORE damage), and I was still able to keep myself alive with my own self-heal ability, and the help of one or two healers. Hell, there's so little actual damage going out in Eparch if people actually pay attention and don't stand in things, that a handful of AoE healers is really all that's needed.

You absolutely do not need the life-steal buff, and shouldn't even be considering that over the DPS buff.

On 5/24/2024 at 9:22 AM, Mirta.5029 said:

OBODY is out there just auto-attacking. People are hitting their skills, they are dodging, they are moving. But this is not a raid. So no-one shows up to a meta map with a raid set up. You'll have people on exotics, you likely won't really have healers around, you'll have people on builds that are not on snowcrows or hardstruck, because it is open world PVE content meant for the casual player.

If you had three active portals up, and slow moving eyeballs reaching Eparch that he was getting overly buffed, I would argue otherwise to this entire statement. But you're right, this isn't a raid, and it's mechanics aren't even remotely close to being as complicated as a raid encounter. It, again, requires you to do the bare minimum of kill adds while not standing in bad things, and watching your buff timer to know when to replenish your free DPS buff.

And I'm sorry, but the whole "Casual player" argument falls flat here as well. I'm a casual player, I usually play maybe once or twice a week, if that, when new content comes out to get the things I want done ,before moving onto something else, and yet I still have a full set of Ascended gear, a working build, proper runes and relic, and use food and enhancement buffs. There is nothing stopping a "Casual player" (of which I am) of doing the bare minimum needed to learn how to properly play their class and understand their rotation.

What you're referring to are bad players, who want to just be carried and not actually put any work into the game, and instead show up and get rewards.

[Galmac.4680]

Don't know much about the new meta. I would like to do it and get the achievements. But no, you have to do another meta for that. Oh, and another meta, too. TWO metas to start a third one. To achieve nothing because it fails so often. 
Got to the meta twice so far. Two times in all the time. And the damage there is insane, champs everwhere, damage here, damage there, downstates here and there, dead ppl here and there. Can't decide what to do, rezz ppl, kill the champs, dodge the next damage wave or even do a little damage to that health points sponge named Eparch. No fun.

A big nope for me so far.☹️

Edited May 27 by Galmac.4680