Fear not, for each Alliance matchup will be better than the previous

[A Hamster.2580]

The only way the next alliance matchup will be more unbalanced is if the number of solo guildless players somehow increases while the number of team players that are part of alliances stays the same or decreases. Do you think this is likely after what the solo players have been experiencing against coordinated team players?

All the solo guildless players that are getting steamrolled will have learned their lesson after a few weeks of this. A number of them will be more motivated to join up with each other or will join an already established alliance. I am not saying every single one of them will do this, but we can reasonably assume a significant nonzero portion of solo players will convert to team oriented players. The rest of them will either remain solo players or will have quit WvW. 

If they quit WvW, that skews the ratio between solo players and team players toward team players resulting in a more balanced matchup for the remaining solo players regardless of what team they get placed in.

There are also players that have been living under a rock and had no idea what this alliance is. They should now know how this works and will be joining an alliance after experiencing the beatdown. Even within some of my WvW guilds, there are clueless players that somehow missed the deadline to select their WvW guild by a few days despite the efforts put in by guild leaders and officers.

 

Then when the next alliance matchup comes along, all of the above remains true and even more solo guildless players will convert to team players by joining an alliance. 

So if you a solo guildless players, this first alliance matchup will be the worst that you can possibly experience. It can only go up from here. Trust.

 

Edited June 22 by A Hamster.2580

[shrew.3059]

I think the issue is that if a system is balanced by people quitting in frustration, you might be creating a vicious cycle. In sPvP this might be less of an issue due to population requirements, but in WvW it can damage the entire game mode.

In cases where it’s organisation and not population, you might still end up in the same situation if groups cannot organise fast enough to get some wins versus bigger abd more organised groups; a group will not likely hold together unless the members are seeing good content.

For whatever reason, if players spend enough time getting farmed, they will opt out, and there will be tiers where content is not only absent but impossible to scrape together for anyone.

[XenesisII.1540]

So nothing has changed than before WR then lol.

Solo gets beat up, somehow has to come to the conclusion that joining a squad or guild is best.

But they don't, as usual because egos, and either continue playing as a solo, or leave (very healthy option in growing the game mode apparently!).

What kinda delulu flavored drink are the stackers sipping on these days?

[asha.4159]

100% agree with OP.

People will still quit if the same toxic people getting most the influence within the gamesphere are getting to the new and old returning players and rubs people the wrong way. This is more the issue than any WR changes or the unbalanced start to them.

Look after the new casuals - there will be more chance then the casuals becoming semi-casuals . Look after the semi-casuals - there will be more chance then they will become 'midcore'.... midcore to hardcore.... see a pattern?

Mighty teapot is on the money recently in his stream. Mighty teapot is smart. Anet is also smart too. There is too much a gap between new casuals and Veterans and they dont want to socialise together. The general public is not smart. We must show them the way! 🙂 

Edited June 22 by asha.4159
there are some in the general public who are smart too

[TheGrimm.5624]

39 minutes ago, A Hamster.2580 said:

The only way the next alliance matchup will be more unbalanced is if the number of solo guildless players somehow increases while the number of team players that are part of alliances stays the same or decreases. Do you think this is likely after what the solo players have been experiencing against coordinated team players?

All the solo guildless players that are getting steamrolled will have learned their lesson after a few weeks of this. A number of them will be more motivated to join up with each other or will join an already established alliance. I am not saying every single one of them will do this, but we can reasonably assume a significant nonzero portion of solo players will convert to team oriented players. The rest of them will either remain solo players or will have quit WvW. 

If they quit WvW, that skews the ratio between solo players and team players toward team players resulting in a more balanced matchup for the remaining solo players regardless of what team they get placed in.

There are also players that have been living under a rock and had no idea what this alliance is. They should now know how this works and will be joining an alliance after experiencing the beatdown. Even within some of my WvW guilds, there are clueless players that somehow missed the deadline to select their WvW guild by a few days despite the efforts put in by guild leaders and officers.

 

Then when the next alliance matchup comes along, all of the above remains true and even more solo guildless players will convert to team players by joining an alliance. 

So if you a solo guildless players, this first alliance matchup will be the worst that you can possibly experience. It can only go up from here. Trust.

 

lol.

Propaganda machine much? So are you working for beef industry, chicken industry, corn industry or who here?

I like the underlying guilt implications you are trying to apply to non guilded players here. If you think that player stacking is going to lead to better matches I would refer you to the 2012-2014 forums on that, especially the matchup threads. That may be part of why Anet restricted the sizes even before they decided comm guilds are close enough to what they saw as an alliance system.

This reads like a matchup thread where someone lost and is feeling a bit hurt that the match didn't go as they expected and are looking to blame other since it couldn't be their side that caused an issue. Nice power phrases though, lessons learned, beatdown, steam rolled, join the team. Enemy roamers causing an issue much.

Anet scoring needs to account for scales of play and efficient play and not just zerging. Sooner with sharing details would be nice. 

[DeWolfe.2174]

5 hours ago, TheGrimm.5624 said:

Anet scoring needs to account for scales of play and efficient play and not just zerging. Sooner with sharing details would be nice. 

We shouldn't hold any faith in the dev's scoring changes. All the changes to the mode of late have favored Boon Ball zergs. The scoring changes will likely favor them too. Worse, they'll likely be something idiotic like "Guild Leaderboards" or something no ones ever going to care at all about.

[ArchonWing.9480]

7 hours ago, A Hamster.2580 said:

ll the solo guildless players that are getting steamrolled will have learned their lesson after a few weeks of this. A number of them will be more motivated to join up with each other or will join an already established alliance. I am not saying every single one of them will do this, but we can reasonably assume a significant nonzero portion of solo players will convert to team oriented players. The rest of them will either remain solo players or will have quit WvW. 

I can assure you given what happens in the game's history and on the forums, no they won't.

What's more likely to happen is we have a bunch of gaming addicts too stubborn to change their ways but also too addicted to quit (people have been threatening to quit to years and for some reason they're still here). So Anet will get this data and think this is ok and because these players are willingly getting farmed, the population is fine and all is going well.

And of course the few solid solo players will probably not need to change either, but tbh most of these have probably either been recruited or have their own small guild eventually instead of joining a generic blob alliance.

I mean none of this would be a problem if the large scale combat wasn't so pigeonholed to the point where pugs need to adhere to strict comp requirements to the point that most of them are just a liability and organization is essentially impossible.

Edited June 23 by ArchonWing.9480

[MedievalThings.5417]

Every reshuffle will look just like this one.  And just like every other beta we've had.  Each tier will have a superstack, an average world and a "we're here to be farmed" world.  It will take a month before the matches even remotely get close to being "gud".  Just in time for them to reshuffle and put a superstack, an average world and a "leftovers" world in each tier again so we can repeat a month of lopsided matches (to be reshuffled some more).

[Junkpile.7439]

Avoiding fights is like most fun part of WvW anyways. I would like to join alliance that would just avoid fights.
😆

[XenesisII.1540]

Question.. what if it's a guild that is getting steamrolled by boon blobs, will they learn their lesson and join an alliance to run 70 fat on a map? 🤭

[A Hamster.2580]

1 hour ago, XenesisII.1540 said:

Question.. what if it's a guild that is getting steamrolled by boon blobs, will they learn their lesson and join an alliance to run 70 fat on a map? 🤭

Most guilds would review their gameplay, logs, and team comp to become better. 💪 They would also try to keep recruiting likeminded players to aid them. 

 

I know it's hard to believe from the perspective of a solo guildless player 🤯, but pretty much all WvW guild discords I am in has players brainstorming and working together to come up with a solution or a different approach to avoid losing to other groups. The theory crafting for individual class builds as well as overall team comp. The footage review on movements and callouts. Class leads offering advices and showing newer players how to pilot a class. Hours of discussion on what to do for the next fight 🤓. This is all part of what makes WvW fun for guilds. I have seen a lot more of this ever since WR got rolled out.

 

Don't assume that we would act the same as you solo guildless players when getting steamrolled by a bigger group. We relish the challenge 😈. We love it when there is a stronger bigger group out there for us to take down. We do not go to the forums to endlessly complain for years about boonball this and boonball that and hoping that Anet would miraculously alter the game for us to win because we can't get good 😂

[Nanogrid.7283]

16 minutes ago, A Hamster.2580 said:

Most guilds would review their gameplay, logs, and team comp to become better. 💪 They would also try to keep recruiting likeminded players to aid them. 

 

I know it's hard to believe from the perspective of a solo guildless player 🤯, but pretty much all WvW guild discords I am in has players brainstorming and working together to come up with a solution or a different approach to avoid losing to other groups. The theory crafting for individual class builds as well as overall team comp. The footage review on movements and callouts. Class leads offering advices and showing newer players how to pilot a class. Hours of discussion on what to do for the next fight 🤓. This is all part of what makes WvW fun for guilds. I have seen a lot more of this ever since WR got rolled out.

 

Don't assume that we would act the same as you solo guildless players when getting steamrolled by a bigger group. We relish the challenge 😈. We love it when there is a stronger bigger group out there for us to take down. We do not go to the forums to endlessly complain for years about boonball this and boonball that and hoping that Anet would miraculously alter the game for us to win because we can't get good 😂

Sorry man ... after watching this I can no longer take you seriously.

[XenesisII.1540]

On 6/23/2024 at 12:36 AM, A Hamster.2580 said:

Most guilds would review their gameplay, logs, and team comp to become better. 💪 They would also try to keep recruiting likeminded players to aid them. 

I know it's hard to believe from the perspective of a solo guildless player 🤯, but pretty much all WvW guild discords I am in has players brainstorming and working together to come up with a solution or a different approach to avoid losing to other groups. The theory crafting for individual class builds as well as overall team comp. The footage review on movements and callouts. Class leads offering advices and showing newer players how to pilot a class. Hours of discussion on what to do for the next fight 🤓. This is all part of what makes WvW fun for guilds. I have seen a lot more of this ever since WR got rolled out.

Don't assume that we would act the same as you solo guildless players when getting steamrolled by a bigger group. We relish the challenge 😈. We love it when there is a stronger bigger group out there for us to take down. We do not go to the forums to endlessly complain for years about boonball this and boonball that and hoping that Anet would miraculously alter the game for us to win because we can't get good 😂

Who said I'm a solo guildless player? I certainly don't get steamrolled, because unlike most players I can read fight situations pretty well, I actually learn from wvw experiences of the past 12 years. 🤔

Relish challenge... then watches guilds leave a map after one wipe. Then watches boon blobs avoid each other. Ooooookay. I wonder why you all aren't sitting in an arena every night challenging each other with your super secret magic builds. 😏

Of course you wouldn't come to the forums to complain about boon ball, it benefits you the most after all. 🙄

But you all certainly complained about your losing your precious stability, and boon strips, warrior bubble, moa, siege, objective defenses, tactivators enough to get them nerfed though huh. 😏

Must be nice having the devs in your pocket, catering only to your play style, break down wvw after 12 years to cater to your play style, so you can come brag about stacking and running people over with 50, and even happy if players left the mode. /slowclap the champions of wvw right there, advising what's best for wvw and certainly not themselves. 😑

Edited June 25 by XenesisII.1540

[One more for the road.8950]

28 minutes ago, XenesisII.1540 said:

Who said I'm a solo guildless player? I certainly don't get steamrolled, because unlike most players I can read fight situations pretty well, I actually learn from wvw experiences of the past 12 years. 🤔

Relish challenge... then watches guilds leave a map after one wipe. Then watches boon blobs avoid each other. Ooooookay. I wonder why you all aren't sitting in an arena every night challenging each other with your super secret magic builds. 😏

Of course you wouldn't come to the forums to complain about boon ball, it benefits you the most after all. 🙄

But you all certainly complained about your losing your precious stability, and boon strips, moa, siege, objective defenses, tactivators enough to get them nerfed though huh. 😏

Must be nice having the devs in your pocket, catering only to your play style, break down wvw after 12 years to cater to your play style, so you can come brag about stacking and running people over with 50, and even happy if players left the mode. /slowclap the champions of wvw right there, advising what's best for wvw and certainly not themselves. 😑

Not sure which side of the bed you got up on today, but looks like it might have been the wrong one. Even if you watch a guild leave a map after one wipe, it doesn't mean all guilds leave a map after one wipe. Just like there's a lot of difference in skill between players, there's a huge difference between guilds. And wouldn't you know, just like players there's guilds that's all front and talk but no real substance if you poke them a bit. And just like some players "1v1" only when they have a friend or five close by to run in to help, there's guilds that does the same, but on a larger scale.

Any guild that actually prefers proper fight content and isn't a mix of ktrain/PPT and fight, be it open tag or guild raids (no disrespect, I like all kinds of content and variety), very much prefer to have opposition that is either somewhat the same level or better than them. Because it's the action and close calls that gets the adrenaline running. I can roam or do small groups or even run across maps in large zergs while relaxing, but when I am ready and prepared to fight - that is what I want to do. I want my adrenaline, not a snoozefest donkey ride across the field with grandma - which I might prefer if I am having a bad day or just need to waste a bit of time between work and bed. If there's no challenge there's no adrenaline. And if I am looking for a fight, the camps and towers that I'd happily capture at other times has no relevance. If I am in a squad like that, we hit a keep or garrison if we don't find proper opposition, and if there's none, we either leave or try to arrange something somewhere else.

And the "boon ball meta" has very much been a snoozefest for a lot of "the better" players and guilds that want the adrenaline type of fight and not just W'ing over the enemy. There's barely room for improvement. Fill the roles, press the buttons, go. It's boring as kitten. These are not the players that want defense nerfed, they don't actually care. What the tactivators do unless it picks you up and throw you across the map, doesn't matter. Stop blaming the wrong ppl. If anyone have wanted the nerfs and changes, it's the NOT so good players, the commanders that fill an entire squad and still blame numbers for losing, NOT the fight guilds and players that do footage review, fine tune builds and strive to become better players. It's the ones that can't be bothered to try to get better that screams for things like that. Because it does NOT benefit guilds like that, it just... removes any challenge that was left.

[Chaba.5410]

59 minutes ago, XenesisII.1540 said:

Relish challenge... then watches guilds leave a map after one wipe. Then watches boon blobs avoid each other. Ooooookay. I wonder why you all aren't sitting in an arena every night challenging each other with your super secret magic builds. 😏

Watching is not participation; actively playing different styles.  You have a tendency to write in such a way that reveals your lack of experience in different WvW playstyles to players who play those playstyles.

I'm glad I spent my last 12 years participating in everything in some way (formal gvg, ktrain, ppt for fights, ppt, ppk fights, small havoc, zerg surfing, solo roaming, duels, scouting, defending, tagging for guild, tagging for pugs, noding memery, alt accounts, server leadership, exploring other servers, pve, spvp, raids, strikes, fractals, etc.) and not just watching from sidelines.  Gives one a much wider perspective.

Edited June 23 by Chaba.5410

[ArchonWing.9480]

58 minutes ago, XenesisII.1540 said:

Who said I'm a solo guildless player? I certainly don't get steamrolled, because unlike most players I can read fight situations pretty well, I actually learn from wvw experiences of the past 12 years.

To be fair, you are an exception to the rule. You actually can back up your talk and more importantly  people actually want to play with you.

Your average bozo cries on the forums and in game. And it's pretty sad when I'm on the same server with them about "us getting farmed" when I'm just like "speak for yourself". Today we managed to stop a boon ball because for some reason people built like 10 trebs (!!!!??) in garri and I knocked people out with some of the trebs. I know, defending in 2024, right? I didn't even think it was possible myself to arrive at a structure and can't even put my siege down. 🤣 Unfortunately the KDR was still pretty tilted against us but whatever. I'm pretty damned sure someone read my forum posts about spamming trebs/shield gens over arrow carts 😅

Of course, my current server is doing pretty poorly. (coverage is spotty), but it's ok since this is business as usual.

And yea sure, I got my alliance and guild, but they're really only active for half the week. Most of the time I'm just left with anywhere between 2-4 friends and that's just that. 

Although granted I also play other games lol. I feel some people are unhappy because that's all they play and that's somewhat understandable. However, I've never subscribed to "I'm casual so I'm not responsible for any of my actions" because that only leads to pain. If anyone calls themselves a veteran, they know Anet's never gonna bail them out. No need to sweat, but at least do something you're proud of, imo. 

For example, I'm almost done with my 2nd map completion. It only took 10 years: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/351063966744707085/1254321090809827429/image.png?ex=6679110c&is=6677bf8c&hm=830cd0f1325f4eab3fade44fe468ec3a530247dd7b1e22618cb32f54d195aea8&

Anyhow, to annoy you though, I'd like to remind people that Guardians did have boon strips, once upon a time: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Searing_Flames

Come on Anet, you know you like guardians enough-- bring the trait back or attach it to Shattered Aegis or something. (wait what happened to the Shattered Aegis person?)

 

Edited June 23 by ArchonWing.9480

[Cuks.8241]

2 hours ago, XenesisII.1540 said:

Ooooookay. I wonder why you all aren't sitting in an arena every night challenging each other with your super secret magic builds. 😏

Maybe you don't believe it but fight guilds do that. And yes they have their own super secret magic builds and do also gvg in arenas. And most likely don't like the current support meta and are trying to find a way to bust it open with something new.

[TheGrimm.5624]

8 hours ago, DeWolfe.2174 said:

We shouldn't hold any faith in the dev's scoring changes. All the changes to the mode of late have favored Boon Ball zergs. The scoring changes will likely favor them too. Worse, they'll likely be something idiotic like "Guild Leaderboards" or something no ones ever going to care at all about.

More implying we need to pay attention to what they are. Since they might just nerf defending more.

[TheGrimm.5624]

4 hours ago, A Hamster.2580 said:

Most guilds would review their gameplay, logs, and team comp to become better. 💪 They would also try to keep recruiting likeminded players to aid them. 

 

I know it's hard to believe from the perspective of a solo guildless player 🤯, but pretty much all WvW guild discords I am in has players brainstorming and working together to come up with a solution or a different approach to avoid losing to other groups. The theory crafting for individual class builds as well as overall team comp. The footage review on movements and callouts. Class leads offering advices and showing newer players how to pilot a class. Hours of discussion on what to do for the next fight 🤓. This is all part of what makes WvW fun for guilds. I have seen a lot more of this ever since WR got rolled out.

 

Don't assume that we would act the same as you solo guildless players when getting steamrolled by a bigger group. We relish the challenge 😈. We love it when there is a stronger bigger group out there for us to take down. We do not go to the forums to endlessly complain for years about boonball this and boonball that and hoping that Anet would miraculously alter the game for us to win because we can't get good 😂

Matchup thread confirmed. Anet, this one is good to close unless you want to change the policy or bless it so we can return fire. 

[kamikharzeeh.8016]

tbf EU ones cannot get much worse anyways. idk how anet magicians can make it happen that within 3*6 worlds the four most stacked groups are within 2 of those 18. legit how is this algorithm working, does it get drunken simulation mode on and then does some RNG dicerolls or what

i don't play on many accounts these days but several ppl on the lower tiers complained about half dead matchups. idk maybe rework the pairings else this system is never gonna work

[Hesione.9412]

3 hours ago, kamikharzeeh.8016 said:

tbf EU ones cannot get much worse anyways. idk how anet magicians can make it happen that within 3*6 worlds the four most stacked groups are within 2 of those 18. legit how is this algorithm working, does it get drunken simulation mode on and then does some RNG dicerolls or what

i don't play on many accounts these days but several ppl on the lower tiers complained about half dead matchups. idk maybe rework the pairings else this system is never gonna work

They're stacked because they went into an alliance together.

[T G.7496]

3 hours ago, Hesione.9412 said:

They're stacked because they went into an alliance together.

No.

They're stacked because Anet's match making was very poor, putting several of the largest, very active guilds on the same Teams.

Anet did this, not the players or guilds.

Mirrors of Lyssa is the most egregious example of very poor Team-making.

I am in a guild on that team.

There has been practically zero content. We hoped it might improve in this second week. It's worse. MoL is incredibly active.  So many commanders and squads, from many, many different guilds, all looking to create and find content. But, seemingly, there are very few people to play with on the other Teams.

This is not a choice all the players on MoL made. This is simply the Team we all found ourselves on. It's miserable for us, too. It's not as miserable as losing, I can understand that. But it's miserable nonetheless.

We've been doing a lot of in-houses to relieve the boredom.

I was really looking forward to WR.

So far, apart from the excellent company, it's been a huge disappointment.

This is Anet's sole responsibility. Not the fault of the players.

Edited June 24 by T G.7496

[Hesione.9412]

2 minutes ago, T G.7496 said:

No.

They're stacked because Anet's match making was very poor, putting several of the largest, very active guild on the same Teams.

Anet did this, not players or guilds.

Mirrors of Lyssa is the most egregious example of very poor Team-making.

I am in a guild on that team.

There has been practically zero content. We hoped it might improve in this second week. It's worse. MoL is incredibly active.  So many commanders and squads, from many, many different guilds, all looking to create and find content. But, seemingly, there are very few people to play with on the other Teams.

This is not a choice all the players on MoL made. This is simply the Team we all found ourselves on. It's miserable for us, too. It's not as miserable as losing, I can understand that. But it's miserable nonetheless.

We've been doing a lot of in-houses to relieve the boredom.

I was really looking forward to WR.

So far, apart from the excellent company, it's been a huge disappointment.

This is Anet's sole responsibility. Not the fault of the players.

When guilds with multiple comms on highly overlapping time zones go into an alliance together, they will automatically be together because of the alliance. Anet might "off-set" that by putting similar alliances on other groups. But as none of us play 24/7 all I can report on is how it is in my timezone, and it's awful. And that is 100% on how players in the same timezone have created their alliance.

[T G.7496]

Teams comprise match ups.

You're entrenched in the idea that players create Teams.

They don't.

Anet does.

[Hesione.9412]

An "alliance" for this implementation is a group of players who have put the same guild as their wvw guild. Therefore, the players created their team. Anet isn't splitting up the "alliances" guilds.