Guild wars 3

[Astralporing.1957]

55 minutes ago, ScottBroChill.3254 said:

People stick with mmo's because of sunk cost fallacy. Since they pay every month to play they have spent way more money on the game, there is much more invested than just time. To move to another mmo while the current one still garners that many monthly subscriptions would be more ridiculous than gw2 moving to gw3 because we don't pay subscriptions.

There are people that have sunk in this game much more than they'd have paid had they been paying a sub. And, surprise surprise, it's exactly those people that Anet would want to retain the most.

Edited April 3 by Astralporing.1957

[Ashantara.8731]

17 hours ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

What you are thinking of was Heroes and Henchman parties.

Ahh, yes! Now I recall, thank you. 🙂 

[Blur.3465]

A friend sent me an update regarding Guild Wars 3. Official response from ANet?
https://www.mmorpg.com/news/guild-wars-3-confirmed-to-be-in-development-though-it-seems-its-still-in-its-early-stages-updated-2000130976 

Quote from there:

Quote

"As an active game studio we are always doing internal exploratory work for possible future titles we’d want to create, however we have nothing to confirm right now. The team’s focus is on Guild Wars 2 development, including the game’s next expansion, which we’re excited to talk about soon."

After the news of GW3 I have almost 0 drive to dedicate and try hard in Guild Wars 2. I know I'll buy expansions to play them for story and new zones, but I think that's about it.
If GW3 is being developed, that means that the resources and attention will shift there and focus on it, giving small content to GW2 until that entirely stops too. 

We also know that ANet was hiring for some unnanounced project? So GW3 could very well be in active development and it's now just a matter of time until we hear official reveal and concept.

My only hope is that GW3 will take a more serious approach and take itself seriously compared to the silliness GW2 added, ruining all the depth and atmosphere that way and turning majority of the characters and world into a joke. T_T

[Vayne.8563]

13 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

First of all, Utopia wasn't announced. It was assumed, because that was their release policy, but we knew the name and some details about it only from unofficial leaks. If they followed the current policy then, they'd have just announced change in delivery schedule that made them make an expansion instead of campaign, without mentioning anything about GW2 until it was absolutely necessary - which would have been 2 years later at the soonest (and even that time could likely have been pushed back a bit). They didn't act that way however, because at that time their interactions with the community were at a much, much better level than they are now. And they genuinely didn't want to keep us in the dark.

Now they very much do want exatly that. The less we know, the better, it seems.

And if you think there was no change that might have waranted more honest explanations, i'd say dropping whole LS6 (which has already been mentioned very shortly after EoD launch- in it we were supposed to get more than one Canthan map, and much earlier than Gyala launched), if they were following their original GW1 approach, should have resulted in a much earlier, and much more detailed explanations. Instead what we've got was an attempt to obscure siphoning off resources from GW2 towards whatever they are doing in the background (which more and more looks like GW3, btw) and a drop of releace quality and quantity by presenting it as just reshuffling of release cadence.

You might try to act like you don't see it, but there is a visible change of approach towards the community. And it is much, much worse now.

Yes, the company that produced Guild Wars 1 was angelic and lovely and wonderful and they shared everything whether it damaged the game or not, whether it would cost them sales or not, because they loved us so much.

But the company that makes Guild Wars 2 are horrible terrible business people who don't care about us at all, and they are willing to not say anything to us, because they're all greedy money grubbers.

I don't think the company direction has changed as much as you. I think the company learned how rabid this playerbase is, and how quick they are to turn when they're not happy.  After years of basically having flash mobs every time something happened, they learned.

The problem isn't that the company has changed. Guild Wars 2 didn't have an official forum. It wasn't quite the same situation. I get it. You're personally unhappy with the game, and of course, you're not alone.  But then, a lot of people were personally unhappy with Guild Wars 1 at various points.  Anet doesn't treat the community badly. But if they were just breaking ground on a new game, and it was going to be years away, they not only had no obligation to share that news, but it would be moronic for them to do so. If you don't think so just look at some of the posts on reddit about it.  It was always going to take at least five years to make a sequel. And the moment they mention it, it causes a panic.  In this case it was mentioned by a third party, who did Anet no favors. And for people like me, who enjoy the game to this day, they did us a disservice.

 

Edited April 3 by Vayne.8563
typo

[ScottBroChill.3254]

@Cyninja.2954 Wows engine is the same, but again they rake in more money, have more players, have healthy stream content. WoW is a cash cow, it's not the same scenario. Guild Wars 2 is working on much smaller margins. Again it's succesful, it has a lot of players, there are whales that keep the game profitable, it's a fun game, but it makes much less money than the other games. The people funding the game just want bigger numbers. And you may know a lot of people who spend a lot of money on the game, but that's not the whole community. I spend money on the game for sure, but the average player is spending less money than the subscription based games. People still spend extra money money in subscription based games so it's not like it's a special financial advantage. It's a fact that it's profitable, but it's less profitable, otherwise they would have a bigger studio. 

And the pvp thing doesn't support you're argument. All it does is support that they spent less resources on it. They kinda just missed the moment to improve it and make it worth continually supporting and everyone left. They obviously aren't going to go all in on it anymore because it's much harder to pull people back from a bad experience and get new people than it is just retatining people. It would have been a smarter idea back in the day, but not now because guild wars 2 is no longer known for pvp. And I was just saying it was healthy for gw1, it provides endgame content without needing to constantly release new stuff. You could say the same thing about raids. But it's very noticable that big name streamers drop the game when there isn't high end competitive content, and those streamers are usually whales and they usually get other people to buy stuff and also get people interested in the game. There's a reason you see so many people on reddit that are like "I had no idea about this game, it's great!" But imagine how many of those potential customers are being missed because they don't see the game anywhere besides word of mouth. I'm not saying it's necessary to have strong pvp, just saying it has it's benefits, along with other competitive content. 

And it's not just that focusing on three game modes is the issue, it is extra work tho. But we can just see and look that they focus on a lot of temporary content that can instead be funneled into end game content. They have discontinued dungeons, a raid wing once in a blue moon, fractals that get less attention, dragon response missions that died off, strike missions, convergeances, bounty hunts, a lot of good metas and a lot of metas that just got left in the dust, etc. If we're talking about too many game modes, lets look at all the pve waste and all the new systems that are dropped. But pvp is also related to the style of the game and combat, they started off with no trinity. That throws off the dynamics of pvp when people don't have roles. Then they kinda shoved in a trinity after time that is less optimimal if they had designed around it in the first place. They took away premade teams which is just a shot in the foot to pvp, no one likes solo queing. Barely any pvp rewards, the ones they got now were added when it was already dead and the legendary pvp armor is just the ascended armor, same with wvw.

I guess in my eyes the one glaring issue with this game is that it is just mindless pve content. I have fun playing it, but it can get boring fast. New maps and metas are cool, but they turn into the same old same old after awhile because they end up requiring no skill and barely any involvement. The original soo wan meta was awesome because you actually had to know your build, coordinate, and there was a high chance of failure. It made succeeding fun.

I guess another thought I have about this is if NCsoft is pushing for a new title, then why? Is doubling down on the casual playerbase going to improve how the new game does in comparison to this one? My main focus would be on how do we get streamers and influencers more interested in the game to improve it's reach and market share which will ultimately get more people buying the game, expansions, and cash shop items. 

Edited April 3 by ScottBroChill.3254

[Cyninja.2954]

3 hours ago, ScottBroChill.3254 said:

@Cyninja.2954 Wows engine is the same, but again they rake in more money, have more players, have healthy stream content. WoW is a cash cow, it's not the same scenario. Guild Wars 2 is working on much smaller margins. Again it's succesful, it has a lot of players, there are whales that keep the game profitable, it's a fun game, but it makes much less money than the other games. The people funding the game just want bigger numbers. And you may know a lot of people who spend a lot of money on the game, but that's not the whole community. I spend money on the game for sure, but the average player is spending less money than the subscription based games. People still spend extra money money in subscription based games so it's not like it's a special financial advantage. It's a fact that it's profitable, but it's less profitable, otherwise they would have a bigger studio. 

Your entire assumption here is flawed.

The reason that most games go free to play or buy to play is because on average, games make more that way. That's literally WHY we are seeing this happen.

Even WoW and FF14 have moved on to subscription+ models, meaning they are selling shop items on top of their subscription (which yes, will outperform f2p).

The average money spent per player in this case is not as relevant as total revenue generated and as I've pointed out: the data here is pretty clear. It's the same data which is the reason developers are going whale hunting and why most cellphone games which are "free" rake in tons of cash.

Staying with Blizzard: Candycrush for exmaple.

You are making an argument based around part of this player base which would not be able to support a new game, where I have pointed out that even there, paet of that player base is highly price sensitive.

3 hours ago, ScottBroChill.3254 said:

And the pvp thing doesn't support you're argument. All it does is support that they spent less resources on it. They kinda just missed the moment to improve it and make it worth continually supporting and everyone left. They obviously aren't going to go all in on it anymore because it's much harder to pull people back from a bad experience and get new people than it is just retatining people. It would have been a smarter idea back in the day, but not now because guild wars 2 is no longer known for pvp. And I was just saying it was healthy for gw1, it provides endgame content without needing to constantly release new stuff. You could say the same thing about raids. But it's very noticable that big name streamers drop the game when there isn't high end competitive content, and those streamers are usually whales and they usually get other people to buy stuff and also get people interested in the game. There's a reason you see so many people on reddit that are like "I had no idea about this game, it's great!" But imagine how many of those potential customers are being missed because they don't see the game anywhere besides word of mouth. I'm not saying it's necessary to have strong pvp, just saying it has it's benefits, along with other competitive content. 

But it's not healthy for GW1. It didn't even manage to sustain GW1, given the entirety of later expansions was based around PvE. Even to this day, the majority of players playing GW1 are doing so for the PvE.

3 hours ago, ScottBroChill.3254 said:

And it's not just that focusing on three game modes is the issue, it is extra work tho. But we can just see and look that they focus on a lot of temporary content that can instead be funneled into end game content. They have discontinued dungeons, a raid wing once in a blue moon, fractals that get less attention, dragon response missions that died off, strike missions, convergeances, bounty hunts, a lot of good metas and a lot of metas that just got left in the dust, etc. If we're talking about too many game modes, lets look at all the pve waste and all the new systems that are dropped. But pvp is also related to the style of the game and combat, they started off with no trinity. That throws off the dynamics of pvp when people don't have roles. Then they kinda shoved in a trinity after time that is less optimimal if they had designed around it in the first place. They took away premade teams which is just a shot in the foot to pvp, no one likes solo queing. Barely any pvp rewards, the ones they got now were added when it was already dead and the legendary pvp armor is just the ascended armor, same with wvw.

Truey PvE has multiple game modes, some discontinued, some changed. A ton of attempts to reinvogorate them. Meanwhile PvE remains the only constant which sees developing, first and foremost living world content and story.

You know which 2 game modes have gotten next to nothing? Spvp and WvW, especially Spvp.

You are also correct that it's a lot of work to sustain multiple game modes, which is exactly what I said. 

So connecting all those dots, it's reasonable to assume that GW3 would focus on:

- reducing work via reducing game modes 

- focus on the content which has proven most successful (if we assume that's the content which continued development, it won't be Spvp)

- address development issues which have appeared over the years: less performance disparity between top end players and average players (aka simplify builds and character customization)

3 hours ago, ScottBroChill.3254 said:

I guess in my eyes the one glaring issue with this game is that it is just mindless pve content. I have fun playing it, but it can get boring fast. New maps and metas are cool, but they turn into the same old same old after awhile because they end up requiring no skill and barely any involvement. The original soo wan meta was awesome because you actually had to know your build, coordinate, and there was a high chance of failure. It made succeeding fun.

and that's exactly what GW3 will be. I get that people want to "believe" and "hope" for their wishes to be implemented in GW3, that's what always happens when players read about a new MMO without having any info.

What I am calling into question is some of these expectations might not be met. In fact I am quite sure a lot of expectations will not be met, the only question is: which ones.

3 hours ago, ScottBroChill.3254 said:

I guess another thought I have about this is if NCsoft is pushing for a new title, then why? Is doubling down on the casual playerbase going to improve how the new game does in comparison to this one? My main focus would be on how do we get streamers and influencers more interested in the game to improve it's reach and market share which will ultimately get more people buying the game, expansions, and cash shop items. 

NCSoft is out for a new revenue stream. The only thing we can be sure of is: they are going to want money and earnings.

What and how exactly that will manifest itsself, time will tell.

It will certainly not be cheaper than GW2 though (which was already more expensive than GW1) and going by how the market is/has developed, we can expect a lot of more recent monetization practices implemented.

Edited April 3 by Cyninja.2954

[Ashantara.8731]

3 hours ago, Blur.3465 said:

A friend sent me an update regarding Guild Wars 3. Official response from ANet?
https://www.mmorpg.com/news/guild-wars-3-confirmed-to-be-in-development-though-it-seems-its-still-in-its-early-stages-updated-2000130976

After the news of GW3 I have almost 0 drive to dedicate and try hard in Guild Wars 2. I know I'll buy expansions to play them for story and new zones, but I think that's about it.
If GW3 is being developed, that means that the resources and attention will shift there and focus on it, giving small content to GW2 until that entirely stops too. 

We also know that ANet was hiring for some unnanounced project? So GW3 could very well be in active development and it's now just a matter of time until we hear official reveal and concept.

They clearly stated, on several occasions (including the article you quoted), that it is not yet in active development. I don't know how much clearer they can make it.

Also, the quote is the generic answer we have already read elsewhere. They don't seem to have anything else to say at this point, let alone announce.

3 hours ago, Blur.3465 said:

My only hope is that GW3 will take a more serious approach and take itself seriously compared to the silliness GW2 added, ruining all the depth and atmosphere that way and turning majority of the characters and world into a joke. T_T

I completely agree with you on that. 👍 However, how good can it get if most of the devs are working on more half-baked GW2 mini-expansions and some unknown UE5 project?

[Blur.3465]

2 hours ago, Ashantara.8731 said:

They clearly stated, on several occasions (including the article you quoted), that it is not yet in active development. I don't know how much clearer they can make it.

Also, the quote is the generic answer we have already read elsewhere. They don't seem to have anything else to say at this point, let alone announce.

They have neither confirmed nor denied anything -- it is a very generic answer, as you said and at this point I don't think they want to confirm it given GW2 still has some expansions to roll with.
"As an active game studio we are always doing internal exploratory work for possible future titles we’d want to create, however we have nothing to confirm right now"

The quote stated their main focus is on more GW2 expansions, but it's either I can't read or understand well because I don't see anywhere they denied GW3 being in early stages of development. I'm either misreading or badly understanding it so correct me in case I'm wrong.
 

2 hours ago, Ashantara.8731 said:

I completely agree with you on that. 👍 However, how good can it get if most of the devs are working on more half-baked GW2 mini-expansions and some unknown UE5 project?

Yup, my main and harshest criticism is towards GW2 storytelling and writing. I feel everything GW1 did right got butchered in GW2 😕

[QueenKeriti.5176]

9 minutes ago, Blur.3465 said:

They have neither confirmed nor denied anything -- it is a very generic answer, as you said and at this point I don't think they want to confirm it given GW2 still has some expansions to roll with.
"As an active game studio we are always doing internal exploratory work for possible future titles we’d want to create, however we have nothing to confirm right now"

The quote stated their main focus is on more GW2 expansions, but it's either I can't read or understand well because I don't see anywhere they denied GW3 being in early stages of development. I'm either misreading or badly understanding it so correct me in case I'm wrong.

Business Post Korea’s article this evening includes a quote from NCsoft issued after the meeting; NCsoft says, “The Guild Wars 3 project is in the review stage and the start of development has not been finalized.” (Cheers, Wccftech!) ArenaNet itself gave a similar non-denial to MMORPG.com, saying, “”As an active game studio we are always doing internal exploratory work for possible future titles we’d want to create, however we have nothing to confirm right now. The team’s focus is on Guild Wars 2 development, including the game’s next expansion, which we’re excited to talk about soon.”

https://massivelyop.com/2024/03/28/hostile-ncsoft-shareholder-meeting-reveals-arenanet-is-working-on-guild-wars-3/

[Blur.3465]

20 minutes ago, QueenKeriti.5176 said:

Business Post Korea’s article this evening includes a quote from NCsoft issued after the meeting; NCsoft says, “The Guild Wars 3 project is in the review stage and the start of development has not been finalized.” (Cheers, Wccftech!)

Thank you QueenKeriti! 

[Izzy.2951]

Guys stop thinking that a company is your old honest friend from your city. They will announce GW3 when the game is closer to launch. We know they have been working on an unnanounced MMORPG project since 2022 by loads of position openned, now we also know they have said they are working on GW3. Thats it, your legendaries wont carry over in any posible universe, thats insane copium that has no logic at all. For 5k players that would be disapointed and probably still try out GW3, there are gonna be another 1 million fresh players that will try GW3.

Edited April 3 by Izzy.2951

[Cyninja.2954]

48 minutes ago, Izzy.2951 said:

Guys stop thinking that a company is your old honest friend from your city. They will announce GW3 when the game is closer to launch. We know they have been working on an unnanounced MMORPG project since 2022 by loads of position openned, now we also know they have said they are working on GW3. Thats it, your legendaries wont carry over in any posible universe, thats insane copium that has no logic at all. For 5k players that would be disapointed and probably still try out GW3, there are gonna be another 1 million fresh players that will try GW3.

Over 1 million players tried out New World (more actually, given the game was at peak 930k concurrent players at launch, so probably around 2-3 million players or more actually tried it). The game is close to shutting down.

Just an FYI since some people like to throw around big numbers without taking a moment to think of how much value those might be.

Edited April 3 by Cyninja.2954

[Sobx.1758]

On 4/1/2024 at 11:46 PM, SloRules.3560 said:

I asked how many proper MMOs were even released, well it was only New World for your information. Under that you have Lost Ark and Albion online which are isometric, but probably had the most work done on them after New World and are actually labeled MMOs. Other than that you have blatant cash grabs.

Before these 10 years you have ESO, FFXIV and GW2 with Wildstart probably the biggest game that failed in that time period, although i still wouldn't call it as big as those 3. Other than that you again get mediocrity.

Oh yeah Black Desert also has seen success released in 2016 in the west and 2014 in Korea.

No, you asked "How many AAA western MMOs have actually failed in last 10 years?". But if your attempted point is supposed to be "none were even released!" then it still makes your "just make a good one and retain players" recipe for success rather ridiculous, because if it's just that then why aren't they popping up all the time?

 

23 minutes ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

Over 1 million players tried out New World (more actually, given the game was at peak 930k concurrent players at launch, so probably around 2-3 million players or more actually tried it). The game is close to shutting down.

But big number for 2 weeks after release, you just don't get it!

Spoiler

...and neither do I

Edited April 3 by Sobx.1758

[ShatteredStars.6548]

Of course, as a game studio, they would consider it, who wouldn't, but shame on the people making youtube videos claiming it's offical.

[Izzy.2951]

1 hour ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

Over 1 million players tried out New World (more actually, given the game was at peak 930k concurrent players at launch, so probably around 2-3 million players or more actually tried it). The game is close to shutting down.

Just an FYI since some people like to throw around big numbers without taking a moment to think of how much value those might be.

Yeah over 1 million tried New World, a game that had no fanbase behind it, all by potential new players and streamers. A big difference is that Guild Wars franchise has a lot of fanbase (20+ years) appart of all the new players and streamers that will try it, same happened with GW2 btw, the game flopped hard at launch in every aspect, but it was held cos it had the name Guild Wars on it. And it has been 12 years selling nostalgia content from GW1 also.

So even if GW3 comes so unfinished as GW2 came, it will still have at least the niche playerbase that GW2 holds.

PD: And btw what makes you wonder that if New World has had 10k concurrent players (players connected at the same time, not total players btw), that Guild Wars 2 hasnt had around that in many shadow periods? cos GW2 right now is not much bigger than new world belive me. I dont think this game has more than 20/25k concurrent players. And the top was a bit more than 500k after launch (half as New World top) stated by anet.

Edited April 3 by Izzy.2951

[Sobx.1758]

49 minutes ago, Izzy.2951 said:

cos GW2 right now is not much bigger than new world belive me.

I'm not even really concerned about the specific numbers here, but I'll bite: people are supposed to believe you based on what exactly?

Edited April 3 by Sobx.1758

[ScottBroChill.3254]

So apparently I'm late to the party but just found out about throne and liberty. That game looks like what I was envisioning gw3 to be and it's also under NCsoft.

Edit: visually

Edited April 3 by ScottBroChill.3254

[hellsmachine.4085]

11 minutes ago, ScottBroChill.3254 said:

So apparently I'm late to the party but just found out about throne and liberty. That game looks like what I was envisioning gw3 to be and it's also under NCsoft.

It's also pay to win and is full of bots.

[ScottBroChill.3254]

9 minutes ago, hellsmachine.4085 said:

It's also pay to win and is full of bots.

So i've heard. But don't throw the baby out with the bath water. Pay to win and bots aren't really an aspect of the gameplay and content, though. But yeah that ruins the game as a whole despite how good a game is. 

[TheQuickFox.3826]

My main thought is: If only if ArenaNet would have put all their effort, money, devs and resources they have invested into "Unannounced projects" into their main game, namely Guild Wars 2 instead year after year, what an amazing game we could have had today.

What could they have achieved with game engine improvements? how could sPvP have looked? What would expansions have looked like? How quick WvW alliances could have been finished? How would the Icebrood Saga have been? How would the story of Primordus and Jormag have been ended?

I sill love every bit of GW2, it is my favorite game, but I believe that it has been a mistake from ArenaNet to divert much resources away from their main and successful MMO.

 

[Ashen.2907]

22 hours ago, Vayne.8563 said:

they'd already announced an expansion

No they hadn't. Utopia was not announced.

The point stands that even if we change the statement that I originally quoted to be, "only one company," rather than, "no company," we are talking about the only game company to ever do so. Now this means that the one specific company that we are discussing has done what is being discussed and dismissed. 

Personally I dont particularly care. If GW2 continues I will continue to play (depending on the direction of the game). If GW3 comes out I will at least check it out. 

[Cyninja.2954]

3 hours ago, ScottBroChill.3254 said:

So i've heard. But don't throw the baby out with the bath water. Pay to win and bots aren't really an aspect of the gameplay and content, though. But yeah that ruins the game as a whole despite how good a game is. 

Except from all that we can see and hear, the game isn't good and is not even mentioned in the recent NCSoft share holder meeting (which says a lot about a game which just released).

It does look pretty though on its new engine and all, which seems to be the only thing some here care about.

[TheGrimm.5624]

OMG peeps! lol, a board member is going to try and sell stock and hold market value. None of this is real to gamers till its out. Don't read into this, save yourself your grief. Play and have fun. If GW3 is in works we might be looking at 3-20 years out. If you are having fun, do so. If you aren't, move along and come back in a decade. 

[mercury ranique.2170]

Ok, what do we know?
NCSoft said that they are considering (in an advanced stage) to start developing GW3. They said this to investors.
This last part is important. Investors are a different audiance then we are. They want revenue. They do not care about genre's or titles. Saying we are going for GW3 means we are thinking bout starting development of a game by Arenanet that gives the same revenue as GW3.
(why Arenanet, for the simple reason that they are calling it GW3, it is Arenanet who does that)
This means that Arenanet will start working on a new title. It might be called GW3, but as developement hasn't started yet, it might not.
It might be a MO, but I somehow doubt it considering the current market.

In the end, Arenanet shook up the industry with GW1 and they did so with GW2. The only thing I expect is that they might do the same with this "GW3"

[ShatteredStars.6548]

7 hours ago, TheQuickFox.3826 said:

My main thought is: If only if ArenaNet would have put all their effort, money, devs and resources they have invested into "Unannounced projects" into their main game, namely Guild Wars 2 instead year after year, what an amazing game we could have had today.

What could they have achieved with game engine improvements? how could sPvP have looked? What would expansions have looked like? How quick WvW alliances could have been finished? How would the Icebrood Saga have been? How would the story of Primordus and Jormag have been ended?

I sill love every bit of GW2, it is my favorite game, but I believe that it has been a mistake from ArenaNet to divert much resources away from their main and successful MMO.

 

This all sounds good but it’s not based in reality, on a 12 year old game engine or whatever age it is.