Does anyone else feel like this game is still in alpha?

[Wakthor Thorwak.2819]

@Kzlbob.8104 said:Snopes.

You has a potato PC? Or hamster powered internet? Honest question.

sadly i have a potato pc and have to wait until agust until i can upgrade :(

[Lord Kreegan.8123]

Having been here at release and having been a developer (long retired), I have no qualms at all about saying the game was in an excellent state at release. Way, way past Alpha; way past Beta; in a better state than most games I've seen released since EQ first came on the scene (a long time ago). GW2 had good graphics for the time; good animations; good net-code; etc. I think it still does.However, the game has regressed a bit.Various issues have been INTRODUCED as the game has evolved... none of which should happen in a well-managed game. There are bugs that don't get fixed or are reintroduced over time as patches come out (poor configuration management); there is inadequate testing of bug fixes, new code, and new functionality; there is a lack of player testing leading to playing mode/style (solo, small group, large group, and zerg) imbalances, and a lack of player testing leading to sometimes severe class imbalances (e.g., ranged versus melee; single target versus AoE).I think a lot of the problems began with the "New Player Experience", which doesn't surprise me; NPE modifications have killed more MMORPGs than I can count. It's unfortunate, but usually an NPE signals that the management team, the coding team, and the level design team that were originally with the game have "moved on" and been replaced with cheaper labor, so quality goes downhill. A brand new set of egos drives the design changes.So we end up with HoT (which I despise) and PoF (which is only barely tolerable) and the idiotic Mastery Point system...

[Elva.6372]

Does anyone else feel like this game is still in alpha?

In "asking" this question, I can only surmise that the OP has not been gaming for very long or has a very limited sample batch of experience to draw upon.

ANet does a lot of things in ways I do not prefer, but they do many things very well, one of which is server performance and stability.

I am an outlier, I play from the fringe on a seven year-old machine running Linux and a 65 dollar GPU that operates off my stock 265 watt Dell PSU.

The game does well for me, as in smoothly and respectable FPS even in WvW and huge zone events.

ANet has been pulling off this magic since the days of the original GW which even allowed MODEM connected players to experience and actually enjoy the game.

Doesn't mean that things can't be improved upon, but suggesting this is "alpha - like" is a laughably ignorant thing to say.

[Zedek.8932]

The optimazion is terrible which can cause frustration. Yes, a Western Digital Red is not the fastest disk, but that does not matter. The GAME is it that throws me into an empty skybox, with textureless NPC and players and invisible buildings that I run into my mount until it builds up in front of me, not my harddrive. A GTX1080 can't get over 40fps on FullHD with no Anti-Alias and reflections and an optimization that focusses on less cores with high clock frequency is rather BS. I have no, literally NO other game or program that is so bad utilizing 8 cores á 3.6 GHz and a graphic card that handles 4K easily.

Design-wise, the game is fully featured. Yes, it looks kinda dated in general compared to let's say Final Fantasy 14 which runs smooth on a GTX670 (!). But especially the designers, the writers and animators are top notch and I would not want it to be handled differently or by other people. When I saw how great the raptor looked with his reflecting shards and the high-polygone model and the physics and all that, I knew there is a team behind this game that's well-skilled.

The problem of this thread is just similar to the League of Legends problem: Both games lack features that shold be there since 5 years and both companies come up with "spaghetti code" and these things where I often think "are they programmers or not"? Right now, aNet (and RIOT) seem to just built up on a bad codebase and that prevents them from adding stuff in the future. And no, I am not talking about DirectX that, to some players, always seem their ticket for shiny next-generation graphics.

So, the game itself is really in a bad state and incredibly poorly optimized with loading screens that end when I am just done 30% of the loading necessary. Also, when I Alt+Tab out of the game and get back in, I need to rate the camera by 360°. If I don't do that, it feels like stuff is gone from the memory and I have massive framerate issues when turning a few centimetres.

However, I never disconnect or lag. The creative part of the game is top notch and superior to almost every MMO right there.

Excelsior.

[aspirine.6852]

Clearly you have never played an alpha or for that matter the beta of a game.

[Brother.1504]

If I could snap my finger and half the forum post in the universe would disappear. You should have aimed for the head.

[TheQuickFox.3826]

No. If you ever really played a game in its alpha state you know why.

Sure, things can be optimized and redesigned, but this is not as easy as it may seem. Especially when you want to keep the current level of customization (fashion wars). In general: CPUs can do complex tasks relatively slowly, GPUs can do simple tasks really fast. You cannot simply put over all complicated, customized, dyed, transmuted, animated character/item rendering to the GPU-only to gain FPS.

[DarthFurby.3970]

Makes me wonfer if OP actually ever played games in alpha / beta or games that needed more times in those states. Fiesta online for instance never felt done, though it claimed to be. You could literally break a transport station (like the hawk in sab world 2) from its path and use it as a mount, and it was really fast to. Though your screen went black and you needed to use the mini map to do it. Still, it worked and happened. Though that game was also riddled with bugs, broken textures, and a slew of other issues.

Even during massive meta events or boss battles neither me nor my partner on our computers rarely experience lags, or lag as bad as it could be compared to other games.

Can this game see improvements in some areas? Sure, what game couldn't?

But is this game really polished and feels complete? Without a doubt.

[Battledoll.1803]

No. It is an Omega.Time to make GW3.

[IndigoSundown.5419]

I believe that, during development, ANet made decisions on how the game's underpinnings would be coded in ways which made many upgrades requested by players too problematic to pursue. Often have I seen ANet explanations that X was not going to happen because of technical limitations. I've also seen ANet explanations about the game's issues with multi-core technology.

That's not the game being in an alpha state. It's engineers and management making decisions early on that did not fully anticipate the need to grow/adapt the game over time. Maybe this is just me. However, I've often wondered if there has been too much, "Gee, that would be awesome!" and not enough, "How will this bite us on the kitten if we run with it?" in ANet development meetings.

As to lag and loading times, it's amazing that spending ~$1K US on a far-from-maxed system reduced loading times dramatically and reduced lag to only a little in the worst situations (e.g., an all-hands-on-deck 3-way battle in Stonemist).

[Martimus.6027]

I have also been around as a beta tester of this game and i have never ever heard those terms. It sounds made up. Also you're wrong.

[BunjiKugashira.9754]

I see many people in this thread claim that the game is way past Alpha and Beta state. But what about all the half-implemented content and placeholders? Next week ANet is finally going to overhaul underwater combat, something that has been left in an unfinished state since launch! The legendary weapons we were promised many years ago are in the middle of being released. What about all the chat commands that are recognized by the game, but have no animation associated? What about all the portals that are inaccessible or lead nowhere since launch? What about Polymock, Mina's Target Shooting and Headwaiter Gallim in the Busted Flagon? What about Malyck and all the other loose ends? What about the half-finished puzzle in Caledon Forest?

GW2 might still be in a state that I consider to be Beta, but ANet has moved the game towards a finished state during the last couple years. The personal story was restructured (even though it was a total mess for some time), the fight against Zhaitan was overhauled and some other features, that players have asked for since release, have finally been implemented. Considering the state GW2 was in during the open Beta, I'd say we're 2/3 on our way towards a finished product. Sometimes I wonder what will happen first: The last feature that should've been in the game at launch finally finding its way into the game or the elder dragon crysis getting resolved.

[SlippyCheeze.5483]

@"BunjiKugashira.9754" said:I see many people in this thread claim that the game is way past Alpha and Beta state. But what about all the half-implemented content and placeholders?

Those are what would be called "plot hooks" in terms of writing, say, a tabletop RPG. They are places where things can be added in the future, or foreshadowing of what is to come, without fleshing them out. Then, in future expansions ANet can add things to the game attached to them. For example, that bridge in the Brisbane Wildlands, or that door to the (other part of the) desert in Ebonhawke.

Next week ANet is finally going to overhaul underwater combat, something that has been left in an unfinished state since launch!

My prediction: you will still consider underwater combat unfinished, after that update, and you will be extremely dissatisfied with the result.

Not because ANet are bad at this, but because you have unrealistic expectations. Underwater combat was finished, and complete. It is being updated to make it more fun, sure, but ... that is "improve the completed thing", not "finish what we started."

The legendary weapons we were promised many years ago are in the middle of being released. What about all the chat commands that are recognized by the game, but have no animation associated? What about all the portals that are inaccessible or lead nowhere since launch? What about Polymock, Mina's Target Shooting and Headwaiter Gallim in the Busted Flagon? What about Malyck and all the other loose ends? What about the half-finished puzzle in Caledon Forest?

Many of those are "plot hooks." Some of them are things that are ongoing, or that were added because they could be done in a low cost way - where they high cost version couldn't be justified. I mean, would you say that WoW was "beta" because it didn't have animations for all the emotes?

GW2 might still be in a state that I consider to be Beta, but ANet has moved the game towards a finished state during the last couple years. The personal story was restructured (even though it was a total mess for some time), the fight against Zhaitan was overhauled and some other features, that players have asked for since release, have finally been implemented. Considering the state GW2 was in during the open Beta, I'd say we're 2/3 on our way towards a finished product. Sometimes I wonder what will happen first: The last feature that should've been in the game at launch finally finding its way into the game or the elder dragon crysis getting resolved.

I'm reminded of the old joke: Biologists have a specialized term for "stable": dead.

One day, indeed, by your definition GW2 will be "finished." It will also be describable as "dead" on that very same day.

[sorudo.9054]

yep, the game is more on beta status with missing parts but not live.

[Ayrilana.1396]

How many people here, who understand what a game in beta actually entails, truly believe that the game is like it’s in beta and are not simply using this as an opportunity to bash the game for something they don’t like?

[SlippyCheeze.5483]

@"Ayrilana.1396" said:How many people here, who understand what a game in beta actually entails, truly believe that the game is like it’s in beta and are not simply using this as an opportunity to bash the game for something they don’t like?

Literally zero. Not that it matters, people with unreasonable complaints will find a way to make them sound as if the other party is at fault no matter what you do; close one door, and they will just invent "alternate facts" to counteract the obvious anti-them bias of plain old regular facts.

[X T D.6458]

@"Radiobiology.6185" said:In these days of early access games it struck me that Guild Wars 2 feels exactly like one of these games that never come out of early access. This game is so poorly optimized its sad, even the gemstore is really poorly optimized even though it feels like this is the feature they put the most of their development time towards. I have been around from the start and i thought that nicknames like "Loading Wars" and "Lag Wars" would fade over time. But i still hear them being used frequently, and i dont disagree with it.

Should Guild Wars 2 be labeled as early access rather than as a finished game?

The engine that the game is built on is outdated for sure, its a heavily modified version of the GW1 engine so yea it needs updating. This seems to be what you are referring to.

But, aside from that GW2 is still light years ahead of every other mmo out there in pretty much every way. I have tried a lot of mmo's and GW2 is hands down the absolute best.

[draconicrose.6213]

No. I think I know where your thoughts come from. GW2 is unpolished at times, causing little frictions in what is otherwise an excellent game. Only, we play this game every day or so and thus those little frictions start chafing.

[Ojyh.9842]

Let's be honnest, the core game wasn't really finished or even polished when it came out.

At some point people thought that GW2 was a vaporware because of the very long development. We know the development of the game had to be partially restarted. We can see remnants of early development everywhere in the game. A lot of things in the core game are not consistent and I'm sure it comes from the somewhat chaotic and long developement. Simple things like interactions with items in the world can trigger bizarre and inconsistent animations throughout the whole game, like they never harmonized the way they work. Or more important things like the final combat against Zhaitan was clearly rushed and unfinished. We can also see a big difference in the visual quality between certain items. It is clear that some of them come from early versions of the game. Even one of the playable races had to be completely redesigned before launch, and we already had several trailers with their old appearance.

I suspect that this chaotic development continued and led to season 1 that we all regret and love now, but people were really salty about it back then. Players felt season 1 wasn't enough and they didn't believe the game could live long if it kept going this way. HoT was also a bit disappointing on some of its aspects.The chaotic development is also the reason why they took so much time to get everything right after launch in my opinion. Just to make an example, the trait system has been reworked like 3 or 4 times.

I don't want to be mean, or to make only one person responsible for all of this, but I feel like everything got better when Colin Johanson left... He was the guy in charge and the person who made tons of promises he didn't keep.

When it comes to the optimization, yes the game was poorly optimized and still is, but 5 years later the computers are now a lot more powerful so the problem slowly faded with time. But it's never been properly adressed.

[SlippyCheeze.5483]

@Ojyh.9842 said:I don't want to be mean, or to make only one person responsible for all of this, but I feel like everything got better when Colin Johanson left... He was the guy in charge and the person who made tons of promises he didn't keep.

I'm not going to argue any of the rest of your comment, but I do want to say this: any discussion about a game that is predicate on one person, regardless of their role, as being responsible for something significant ... is at best built on sand, ready to wash away at the slightest pressure.

Just like Ghostcrawler over in WoW, or Chris Wilson with PoE, none of these people are solely responsible for anything. They are part of a team, typically a large team, and that team makes decisions. No individual is has sole influence over any part of the overall picture, especially once players get to touch the thing and start providing feedback. (Including implicit feedback by just playing the game.)

I'm not arguing about promises being made and not kept, just saying that ... odds are, Colin wasn't solely responsible for either the promises, or the failure to deliver on them. :)

[Ayrilana.1396]

@SlippyCheeze.5483 said:I'm not arguing about promises being made and not kept, just saying that ... odds are, Colin wasn't solely responsible for either the promises, or the failure to deliver on them. :)

Assuming any promises were ever actually made :)

[SlippyCheeze.5483]

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@"SlippyCheeze.5483" said:I'm not arguing about promises being made and not kept, just saying that ... odds are, Colin wasn't solely responsible for either the promises, or the failure to deliver on them. :)

Assuming any promises were ever actually made :)

What, players hearing "we will vaguely consider if we might ever possibly maybe do a thing, if maybe we can" as "ironclad promise"?

Nah, that isn't credible at all. ;)

[Ojyh.9842]

Come on guys let's be real... Colin kept talking about what was coming most of the time with big words and superlatives, and then the releases were nowhere near our expectations, or were simply not there. You make it sound like the unfulfilled promises are just exaggerations from some haters. Well I don't know if you were no there at this time or if you just never realized it, but it's not made up stories

And I know it's not about one person, I don't really want to blame him personally, and it could be a coincidence if both the communication and release of content got better after he left. But still...

[Obtena.7952]

@"Radiobiology.6185" said:In these days of early access games it struck me that Guild Wars 2 feels exactly like one of these games that never come out of early access. This game is so poorly optimized its sad, even the gemstore is really poorly optimized even though it feels like this is the feature they put the most of their development time towards. I have been around from the start and i thought that nicknames like "Loading Wars" and "Lag Wars" would fade over time. But i still hear them being used frequently, and i dont disagree with it.

Should Guild Wars 2 be labeled as early access rather than as a finished game?

Seriously? Wow. I'm calling troll on this one.

[Goettel.4389]

With just a drop in character number and model quality it runs great on my rig.