Superior Sigil of Nullification [Merged]

[Cyninja.2954]

@Hyper Cutter.9376 said:

@"Cyninja.2954" said:Suprisingly there is people who are fine with markets taking their course and not having everything handed out for free.What about the people who got all the sigils they needed for a token amount of silver, is that not "handed out for free"?

That falls under markets taking their course. I'm fine with accepting that some were faster than myself and get to reap the benefits.

Unfortunate and unfair, yet I personally still don't mind.

The only thing I care about is my personal desire to get the collection done or not depending on what I can affect or not.

I find it interesting that people are envious here but don't mind others getting presursors to drop or getting very rare black lion chest rewards (or maybe some do). I've explained why I think the approach to being envious (especially in a video game) is counter productive to enjoyment (in my opinion) but that is up to every one for them selves to decide.

[Hanth.2978]

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Tyson.5160 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Tyson.5160 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Blanche Neige.7241 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:> Demand at 20 gold per Sigil will not hold for long. Both because it locks out a huge quantity of the player base who can not afford it or do not want to afford it. Ergo the price will fall faster than 6 months. How far time will tell.

You are so active on this subject, and so against the solution to add a crafting recipe to make this sigil that I am seriously suspecting you are one of the few who bought a good chunk of the supply when it was cheap and are now reselling them at inflated prices.

Make sure to renew your tinfoil hat subscription end of this month.

Suprisingly there is people who are fine with markets taking their course and not having everything handed out for free.

And yet for some, they got it practically for free. Others didn’t.

Yes and? Again, I'm not an envious person.

Why should I care if someone else was lucky for once and I was not?

Some people are acting as though this was the only issue they ever cared about. Yes, some people got the materials insanely cheap, others made a killing flipping the Sigils, and?

My personal choice and the value I give this collection is almost not affected by this. If all you care about is if others are luckier, faster, more successful, etc. in a video game, you don't have your priorities strait, imo.

Please don’t open that topic about priorities being straight or not. We are all discussing a video game here. We are all putting in energy toward GW2.

I did not argue the validity of getting enjoyment out of a video game.

I was criticizing the vast amount of negative hyperbole and over dramatization people enjoy putting on 1 issue of a set of skins and the fact that some one else might have beaten them to the punch as far as acquisition goes.

How do you know people "enjoy" coming on the forums and venting these concerns? sounds a bit rich to assume that by anyone. You also said earlier in a post that people wanted these skins for "free", again that's a reach. I have seen more post then not asking for crafting recipes, event rewards, rewards tracks etc as other options to getting a Sigil.

One could argue that you enjoy coming on here and being overly dramatic yourself but that's neither here nor there, point is at the end of the day it's just skins. Legendary weapons are just skins and if people want them bad enough they farm for them or open up the wallets, same thing for these.

[Bloodstealer.5978]

@jcgreece.6870 said:Can someone guarantee that specific players/accounts are not notified before these types of new recipes are released so they can profit from the TP by buying the crafting materials right after the update is released? What is the purpose of adding a recipe that is so specific that is 100% certain that is going to increase the price of its crafting materials more than 60000%?

Gem sales.. there is no other real defence for this .. it's simply a cashgrab using known data of current supply and forecasting supply over x period of time against forecasted demand.The only other cog in the wheel is the market overlords and how quickly they could flip the available stock and inflate the prices to catch the whales in the firrst throws of the net, then trickle feed the market for as long as possible to keep those prices high, safe in he knowledge that even on a good toilet day in game supply wont be enough to quell the demand anytime soon.

So pick an arbitrary item considered predominantly vendor trash and with no real reliable source to supply the expected demand in the market, then sit back and watch the TP overlords do their thing, whilst milking them gems sales as hard and fast as possible for as long as possible, whilst ignoring the issues it has thrown up... WORKING AS INTENDED.

[Eliphas.4862]

@Cyninja.2954 said:I did not argue the validity of getting enjoyment out of a video game.

I was criticizing the vast amount of negative hyperbole and over dramatization people enjoy putting on 1 issue of a set of skins and the fact that some one else might have beaten them to the punch as far as acquisition goes.If you don't want to discuss it then just leave, there are people here who would like to legitimately comment about the unfairness (or not) of the situation without someone telling them they are envious or pity.

[Drecien.4508]

@Mewcifer.5198 said:

@"MachineManXX.9746" said:Everyone keeps talking about how the "TP barons" are manipulating and controlling the market. The price is only this high because people are willing to pay it. They don't control anything because new sigils will constantly be created. When people are no longer willing to pay the current price, then they will come down. In all honesty, the current gold cost for THREE sets of desirable skins is quite reasonable.

I wouldn't phrase it like that, I would say the price is high because people feel like they have no other option. They can't craft it, they can't reliably farm it. So yes they are "willing" but its not the same as if someone was just lazy and "willing" to pay the money instead of crafting it themselves or something.

I bought the first ten I needed when they were 3-5 gold each, I still need 15 more. I have a couple waiting in my bank that friends gave me because they knew I was a little upset over the cost going so high. So I have to either hope I get lucky, or kiss goodbye to 180 gold if I want to complete the collection anytime soon.

I feel like if the collection was intended to be pricey, they should have just chosen an item already known for being pricey that has a reliable source. It would have boosted the price up a little bit, but not this much. Instead it was an item that was really cheap right up until it was needed for this collection.

There is a lot of speculation as to why anet chosen this sigil.Was it chosen because they wanted to make this particular sigil worth more?Was it chosen because it fit a certain theme?Was it chosen because it's rarity?We can't say for certain unless anet makes a statement on it.

To me, the issue isn't the price. I never complained about the cost for the griffon. And neither is the issue the TP flippers, at least not directly, they only made the issue more apparent.To me the issue is that this was a cheap item, so cheap people would often vendor it instead of putting it on the TP. People who could speed through the new content and get to the collection quickly were able to complete it for practically pennies.

Anyone who couldn't play the new content day one are now staring at a huge paywall that the "early birds" didn't even have to try to step over.

Had to work? Had a family event like a wedding or funeral to go to? Did a storm knock out your power? Any number of other things that hold the potential to keep you from playing the new living story day one?Now you have to pay 300+ gold for something that other people were able to grab for 6 silver.Don't have 300 gold? Well maybe in six months the price will have dropped back down. But then again, maybe it won't have. Who knows.

Don't forget all the people who tell other people not to play on release day due to the "kourna" fiasco.

[Obtena.7952]

@Tyson.5160 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Blanche Neige.7241 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:> Demand at 20 gold per Sigil will not hold for long. Both because it locks out a huge quantity of the player base who can not afford it or do not want to afford it. Ergo the price will fall faster than 6 months. How far time will tell.

You are so active on this subject, and so against the solution to add a crafting recipe to make this sigil that I am seriously suspecting you are one of the few who bought a good chunk of the supply when it was cheap and are now reselling them at inflated prices.

Make sure to renew your tinfoil hat subscription end of this month.

Suprisingly there is people who are fine with markets taking their course and not having everything handed out for free.

And yet for some, they got it practically for free. Others didn’t.

That's not a problem ... why would anyone commit to a game and think everything is equal for all people? The fact there is a market is a sure indication (or should be) to every player in this game that it's not designed for equality. Heck, just the fact that some people can play more than others is creating massive inequality between players; nothing a game dev could do can address that.

[Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582]

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Blanche Neige.7241 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:> Demand at 20 gold per Sigil will not hold for long. Both because it locks out a huge quantity of the player base who can not afford it or do not want to afford it. Ergo the price will fall faster than 6 months. How far time will tell.

You are so active on this subject, and so against the solution to add a crafting recipe to make this sigil that I am seriously suspecting you are one of the few who bought a good chunk of the supply when it was cheap and are now reselling them at inflated prices.

Make sure to renew your tinfoil hat subscription end of this month.

Suprisingly there is people who are fine with markets taking their course and not having everything handed out for free.

Nobody is asking for handouts of free stuff, just a reliable method of acquisition for everyone that's not reliant on RNG or the TP which by nature is not a free market.

[Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582]

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Tyson.5160 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Blanche Neige.7241 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:> Demand at 20 gold per Sigil will not hold for long. Both because it locks out a huge quantity of the player base who can not afford it or do not want to afford it. Ergo the price will fall faster than 6 months. How far time will tell.

You are so active on this subject, and so against the solution to add a crafting recipe to make this sigil that I am seriously suspecting you are one of the few who bought a good chunk of the supply when it was cheap and are now reselling them at inflated prices.

Make sure to renew your tinfoil hat subscription end of this month.

Suprisingly there is people who are fine with markets taking their course and not having everything handed out for free.

And yet for some, they got it practically for free. Others didn’t.

Yes and? Again, I'm not an envious person.

Why should I care if someone else was lucky for once and I was not?

Some people are acting as though this was the only issue they ever cared about. Yes, some people got the materials insanely cheap, others made a killing flipping the Sigils, and?

My personal choice and the value I give this collection is almost not affected by this. If all you care about is if others are luckier, faster, more successful, etc. in a video game, you don't have your priorities strait, imo.

It's not lucky. This happens everytime a patch is released. Some people rush the content, find an item that everyone will need, buy the entire stock. While those that just want to play along at their own pace are then held hostage to those that rushed the content. It's just bad design.

[Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582]

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Tyson.5160 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Blanche Neige.7241 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:> Demand at 20 gold per Sigil will not hold for long. Both because it locks out a huge quantity of the player base who can not afford it or do not want to afford it. Ergo the price will fall faster than 6 months. How far time will tell.

You are so active on this subject, and so against the solution to add a crafting recipe to make this sigil that I am seriously suspecting you are one of the few who bought a good chunk of the supply when it was cheap and are now reselling them at inflated prices.

Make sure to renew your tinfoil hat subscription end of this month.

Suprisingly there is people who are fine with markets taking their course and not having everything handed out for free.

And yet for some, they got it practically for free. Others didn’t.

That's not a problem ... why would anyone commit to a game and think everything is equal for all people? The fact there is a market is a sure indication (or should be) to every player in this game that it's not designed for equality. Heck, just the fact that some people can play more than others is creating massive inequality between players; nothing a game dev could do can address that.

They could just make it a collection, or add a recipe, or an NPC that will exchange ANY superior sigil for the one needed, or one that exchanges Tomes of Knowledge for them. Or any number of other solutions that make the armor recipe achievable without paying hundreds of gold through the TP, waiting for a month for the price to come down or levelling 25 alts to 64. Having a TP is fine, but it only affects equality of the game when you REQUIRE people to use it to complete content.

[Tyson.5160]

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Tyson.5160 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Blanche Neige.7241 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:> Demand at 20 gold per Sigil will not hold for long. Both because it locks out a huge quantity of the player base who can not afford it or do not want to afford it. Ergo the price will fall faster than 6 months. How far time will tell.

You are so active on this subject, and so against the solution to add a crafting recipe to make this sigil that I am seriously suspecting you are one of the few who bought a good chunk of the supply when it was cheap and are now reselling them at inflated prices.

Make sure to renew your tinfoil hat subscription end of this month.

Suprisingly there is people who are fine with markets taking their course and not having everything handed out for free.

And yet for some, they got it practically for free. Others didn’t.

That's not a problem ... why would anyone commit to a game and think everything is equal for all people? The fact there is a market is a sure indication (or should be) to every player in this game that it's not designed for equality. Heck, just the fact that some people can play more than others is creating massive inequality between players; nothing a game dev could do can address that.

Unfortunately this is a different situation.

[Eliphas.4862]

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Tyson.5160 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Blanche Neige.7241 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:> Demand at 20 gold per Sigil will not hold for long. Both because it locks out a huge quantity of the player base who can not afford it or do not want to afford it. Ergo the price will fall faster than 6 months. How far time will tell.

You are so active on this subject, and so against the solution to add a crafting recipe to make this sigil that I am seriously suspecting you are one of the few who bought a good chunk of the supply when it was cheap and are now reselling them at inflated prices.

Make sure to renew your tinfoil hat subscription end of this month.

Suprisingly there is people who are fine with markets taking their course and not having everything handed out for free.

And yet for some, they got it practically for free. Others didn’t.

That's not a problem ... why would anyone commit to a game and think everything is equal for all people? The fact there is a market is a sure indication (or should be) to every player in this game that it's not designed for equality. Heck, just the fact that some people can play more than others is creating massive inequality between players; nothing a game dev could do can address that.No one here is asking for that.Like IRL you don't want equality of outcome, meaning everyone getting their sets otherwise it wouldn't be especial, but you want equality of opportunity so everyone get the same chance to get it with the same effort, not that just people who rushed the content on day 1 getting it and leaving the rest with no chance at all to get it at a reasonable price/way.

[Ayrilana.1396]

If they were to add an additional way, they could just add it to the Serpents Ire meta’s daily choice chest.

[Hyper Cutter.9376]

@Obtena.7952 said:That's not a problem ... why would anyone commit to a game and think everything is equal for all people? The fact there is a market is a sure indication (or should be) to every player in this game that it's not designed for equality. Heck, just the fact that some people can play more than others is creating massive inequality between players; nothing a game dev could do can address that.Actually, there's tons of things they could have done: add sigils of nullification to a vendor, add a recipe to craft them, make the armor recipe require a more common superior sigil, or allow any superior sigil to work with it.

Or require account-bound items sold at a vendor instead of something the robber barons can hold for ransom, kind of like the griffin does.

[Voltekka.2375]

After 700+ posts, it amazes me as to how some people choose to support the whole sigil price topic - or downright troll others. A simple fact remains, one you just cannot ignore. That fact is how a minority of players got huge profit from something that should be widely accessible, via recipe at the very least. I know a fella who had bought 2k+ sigils, another made 16k. It is those people who slowly release what they still have in stock, and regulate the price. The feeling of unfairness is what this is about. People would have no issues paying 200g to the heart vendors for parts of the collection. Nuh-uh. They see it as grossly unfair that some make huge profit just cause they... Finished a collection first. And i agree with them. I can understand them. It is an exploit. This shouldnt be like it is, now.And before you start with the "finish the collection in 6 months, 2 years etc, when the sigil will be 5g-ish", I farmed my own sigils from tomes.

[raykor.6723]

ANET should have used several of the sigils or runes that come from the classic dungeons. At least that would have been something people could make regular progress towards and I think it would have been interesting to bring people back to dungeons that many haven't played for years.

[actarus.8319]

@raykor.6723 said:ANET should have used several of the sigils or runes that come from the classic dungeons. At least that would have been something people could make regular progress towards and I think it would have been interesting to bring people back to dungeons that many haven't played for years.

I think same as you. For me, the trouble about the sigil of nullification is a game design failure, I don't understand why Anet didn't anticipate it. Buying this sigil (or another) with dungeon tokens is a good idea.

[Obtena.7952]

@Hyper Cutter.9376 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:That's not a problem ... why would anyone commit to a game and think everything is equal for all people? The fact there is a market is a sure indication (or should be) to every player in this game that it's not designed for equality. Heck, just the fact that some people can play more than others is creating massive inequality between players; nothing a game dev could do can address that.Actually, there's tons of things they could have done: add sigils of nullification to a vendor, add a recipe to craft them, make the armor recipe require a more common superior sigil, or allow any superior sigil to work with it.

Or require account-bound items sold at a vendor instead of something the robber barons can hold for ransom, kind of like the griffin does.

Sure ... they could have done tons of things. That's not for debate. We can imagine all sorts of things that could have been. But they didn't ... they did THIS thing. They did it for a reason. I don't know what that reason is. If it doesn't work out, we know they will address it because of past actions they have done on similar issues.

@Voltekka.2375 said:After 700+ posts, it amazes me as to how some people choose to support the whole sigil price topic - or downright troll others. A simple fact remains, one you just cannot ignore. That fact is how a minority of players got huge profit ....

Except that isn't a problem ... if it was, the market would have never been structured the way it is. Look, you play a game with a player driven market where that is going to happen. Get over it.

[jcgreece.6870]

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Hyper Cutter.9376 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:That's not a problem ... why would anyone commit to a game and think everything is equal for all people? The fact there is a market is a sure indication (or should be) to every player in this game that it's not designed for equality. Heck, just the fact that some people can play more than others is creating massive inequality between players; nothing a game dev could do can address that.Actually, there's tons of things they could have done: add sigils of nullification to a vendor, add a recipe to craft them, make the armor recipe require a more common superior sigil, or allow any superior sigil to work with it.

Or require account-bound items sold at a vendor instead of something the robber barons can hold for ransom, kind of like the griffin does.

Sure ... they could have done tons of things. That's not for debate. We can imagine all sorts of things that could have been. But they didn't ... they did THIS thing. They did it for a reason. I don't know what that reason is. If it doesn't work out, we know they will address it because of past actions they have done on similar issues.

After 6 years of developing GW2 we would expect them to listen to their playerbase and know what we like. Sometimes they act like they listen (eg when they added the precursor recipes), but did they really learn from it? They keep making bad decisions and we keep hoping for them to fix them. Noone likes farming gold in Istan for 10 hours to buy an item from the trading post. Give us something "unique" to do and a "unique" reward for that... Farming gold to play the "trading post game" is boring...

[Obtena.7952]

@jcgreece.6870 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Hyper Cutter.9376 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:That's not a problem ... why would anyone commit to a game and think everything is equal for all people? The fact there is a market is a sure indication (or should be) to every player in this game that it's not designed for equality. Heck, just the fact that some people can play more than others is creating massive inequality between players; nothing a game dev could do can address that.Actually, there's tons of things they could have done: add sigils of nullification to a vendor, add a recipe to craft them, make the armor recipe require a more common superior sigil, or allow any superior sigil to work with it.

Or require account-bound items sold at a vendor instead of something the robber barons can hold for ransom, kind of like the griffin does.

Sure ... they could have done tons of things. That's not for debate. We can imagine all sorts of things that could have been. But they didn't ... they did THIS thing. They did it for a reason. I don't know what that reason is. If it doesn't work out, we know they will address it because of past actions they have done on similar issues.

After 6 years of developing GW2 we would expect them to listen to their playerbase and know what we like. Sometimes they act like they listen (eg when they added the precursor recipes), but did they really learn from it? They keep making bad decisions and we keep hoping for them to fix them. Noone likes farming gold in Istan for 10 hours to buy an item from the trading post. Give us something "unique" to do and a "unique" reward for that... Farming gold to play the "trading post game" is boring...

Let me ask you a question ... What makes you think that what players want (which is a very wide range of random stuff) is THE most critical factor in Anet's choices for the game?

You don't seem to understand how the game is designed ... in fact, there are probably very FEW things in this game designed to attempt to make all players happy. I've yet to play an MMO that really does that. Yet you seem to have the expectation that this one should. Maybe you should consider there are OTHER factors in how games are designed that can't make 'what players want' their priority.

I do have to laugh at the 'farming gold' is boring comment. I mean, almost ever single activity in this game gives you gold; it's designed so you can do whatever YOU WANT so you can get gold. So every activity in this game is boring to you? That doesn't sound like an Anet problem.

[Lambent.6375]

I think it's worth waiting a couple months to see how this plays out before asking anet to do anything.

[Jethro.9376]

@Lambent.6375 said:I think it's worth waiting a couple months to see how this plays out before asking anet to do anything.

More like waiting for a response, if anything.Players always ask but it takes a while for something to actually happen.

[Eliphas.4862]

Well if they do something in the near future I just hope they change it to requiere another craftable Sigil or something else, that way those who bought a bunch of them can keep them.

[Gop.8713]

The longer they wait to fix it the more unfair a fix would be. Ppl speculating on sigils of nullification atm are doing so with the understanding that there is a risk anet may decide to fix the problem. If they leave it alone for a couple of months then they've given tacit approval to the market and to yank the rug out from under the ppl invested at that point would be just as harmful as the initial error . . .

[Jumpin Lumpix.6108]

@Lambent.6375 said:I think it's worth waiting a couple months to see how this plays out before asking anet to do anything.

I can already tell u, price will hover around 15-20g for each one and ppl will not craft the armor and keep complaining.

[Voltekka.2375]

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Hyper Cutter.9376 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:That's not a problem ... why would anyone commit to a game and think everything is equal for all people? The fact there is a market is a sure indication (or should be) to every player in this game that it's not designed for equality. Heck, just the fact that some people can play more than others is creating massive inequality between players; nothing a game dev could do can address that.Actually, there's tons of things they could have done: add sigils of nullification to a vendor, add a recipe to craft them, make the armor recipe require a more common superior sigil, or allow any superior sigil to work with it.

Or require account-bound items sold at a vendor instead of something the robber barons can hold for ransom, kind of like the griffin does.

Sure ... they could have done tons of things. That's not for debate. We can imagine all sorts of things that could have been. But they didn't ... they did THIS thing. They did it for a reason. I don't know what that reason is. If it doesn't work out, we know they will address it because of past actions they have done on similar issues.

@Voltekka.2375 said:After 700+ posts, it amazes me as to how some people choose to support the whole sigil price topic - or downright troll others. A simple fact remains, one you just cannot ignore. That fact is how a minority of players got huge profit ....

Except that isn't a problem ... if it was, the market would have never been structured the way it is. Look, you play a game with a player driven market where that is going to happen. Get over it.

Well, let's see: Domain of Kourna had the beetle, easily obtainable (cost-wise) by everyone. You needed certain defense events in Core Tyria, and some events in DoK map.Sandswept isles had the animated backpack thingie, again, no biggie as far as gold investment went. It needed the Serpents Ire meta, which is another thing altogether.Istan has the stellar weapons (no collection for that one, sadly) . Available to everyone, no tp cost attached.Draconis Mons had the Druid backpack. You only needed to do time gated stuff each day (heart vendors) for 14 days. Again, available to everyone.

This time, in living story, Anet choose to use a sigil which isnt available to everyone. This is different. And it was a bad move.