Superior Sigil of Nullification [Merged]

[Holykitten.3064]

@Just a flesh wound.3589 said:

@GinsuChef.3765 said:From Gw2efficicency, about 17,000 have finished Elegy. Of those, about 2,000 have finished Requiem. If the other 15,000 want to finish Requiem, they need a supply of 375,000 sigils.

This ^

It’s not so much the price but the supply. The incoming supply is insufficient to handle the number of players that are stalled and can’t finish this collection. And the numbers there are the tip of the iceberg as only a small fraction of players have an account on gw2efficiency. The actual number of sigils needed to supply the playerbase is much higher.

We don't know how many sigils are generated per day that DO NOT enter the Trading Post. Players that are aware they need this Sigil, will know to BLKit Salvage the common Exotic drops that has it slotted in. Assuming that you absolutly MUST use the TP is ridiculous. This 'problem' is only a 'problem' for people wanting instant gratification. People that do not even know of this collections existence, let alone it's requirements, don't currently have a problem.Arc, is a common Exotic drop, so much so, that it's value only increased because of this collection. Literally the day before this weapon was 1g on the TP. it's that common. and it's not the only Exotic that has the Sigil of Nullification slotted in it.

[Just a flesh wound.3589]

@Haleydawn.3764 said:

@Just a flesh wound.3589 said:

@GinsuChef.3765 said:From Gw2efficicency, about 17,000 have finished Elegy. Of those, about 2,000 have finished Requiem. If the other 15,000 want to finish Requiem, they need a supply of 375,000 sigils.

This ^

It’s not so much the price but the supply. The incoming supply is insufficient to handle the number of players that are stalled and can’t finish this collection. And the numbers there are the tip of the iceberg as only a small fraction of players have an account on gw2efficiency. The actual number of sigils needed to supply the playerbase is much higher.

We don't know how many sigils are generated per day that DO NOT enter the Trading Post

. Players that are

aware

they need this Sigil, will know to BLKit Salvage the common Exotic drops that has it slotted in. Assuming that you absolutly MUST use the TP is ridiculous. This 'problem' is only a 'problem' for people wanting intant gratification. People that do not even know of this collections existance, let alone it's requirements, don't currently have a problem.Arc, is a common Exotic drop, so much so, that it's value only increased because of this collection. Literally the day before this weapon was 1g on the TP.

it's that common

. and it's not the only Exotic that has the Sigil of Nullification slotted in it.

If that many are entering the market and collections were being finished then we would be able to see it reflected in gw2efficiency as a noticeable increase over time as people get it done.

I guess check back in a few days and see if the numbers have budged.

Edit: as of this timeThe Convergence of Sorrow II: Requiem. 2,225 of 182,695 (1.218%)

[Holykitten.3064]

@"Just a flesh wound.3589" said:If that many are entering the market and collections were being finished then we would be able to see it reflected in gw2efficiency as a noticeable increase over time as people get it done.I guess check back in a few days and see if the numbers have budged.

5 days ago;https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/698314#Comment_698314

According to gw2efficiency, in 5 days;The Convergence of Sorrow I: Elegy had been completed by 15,212. It has now been completed by 17,273 (2061 accounts in 5 days)The Convergence of Sorrow II: Requiem had been completed by 1,679. It has now been completed by 2,225. (546 accounts in 5 days, or 13,650 sigils worth)13,650 sigils is pretty noticeable imo.

PS: Only 153,316 (75.75%) accounts on gw2efficiency own Path of Fire, ergo, even have access to this collection.

EDIT:https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/695374#Comment_695374September 25th, 8 days ago.Intermediary stages of Requiem;Requiem: Experiment 1- 6,354. Now completed by 8,741Requiem: Experiment 2 -5,313. Now completed by 7,684Requiem: Experiment 3 - 2,518 (10 sigils needed). Now completed by 3,481 (963 accounts in 8 days x 10 sigils= 9,630 Sigils)Requiem: Experiment 4 - 1,933 (5 Sigils needed) Now completed by 2,877 (944 accounts in 8 days x 5 sigils = 4720 Sigils)Requiem: Experiment 5 - 1,550 (5 Sigils needed) Now completed by 2,495 (945 accounts in 8 days x 5 sigils = 4725 Sigils)Requiem: Experiment 6 - 1,289 (5 Sigils needed) Now completed by 2,225 (936 accounts in 8 days x 5 Sigils = 4680 Sigils)

Total sigils used in 8 days = 23,755.

[crepuscular.9047]

It's things like this happening to TP why I like BDO system, and the only thing i like BDO, prices do not skyrocket or fall off a cliff in matters of few hours like bitcoin; item cannot be sold above a % of the lowest listing price, and vice versa cannot be sold under a % of the highest listing price

[Astralporing.1957]

@Hanth.2978 said:There is no way Anet will put in a fix so that these sigils can be crafted or obtained on the cheap, too many people have already spent 5g 10g or even 15g to finish these collections. For Anet to do that now would just be a slap in the face to those people who grinded that gold in order to buy them.Adding halloween skins to forge results probably was a slap to the face to anyone that bought one for 1000s of gold when TP was their only source. And that's only one example. Consider birthday dye kits, or nodes+recent black lion tokens, for some others. They also had no compulsion to introducing new, easier sources for named exotics for PoF specialization weapon collections (that made the prices of those tank on TP).

So, you were saying?

[EmeraldNight.4307]

@Hanth.2978 said:There is no way Anet will put in a fix so that these sigils can be crafted or obtained on the cheap, too many people have already spent 5g 10g or even 15g to finish these collections. For Anet to do that now would just be a slap in the face to those people who grinded that gold in order to buy them.

they have already slapped people who want to get this armor skin real hard. what's the big deal to slap those who already made it once again?

[Vyrulisse.1246]

It's very telling that their new gem store item had a bug and was addressed within hours but we can't even get a comment on this issue. It was even asked in the "forum chat" and ignored.

[Genesis.8572]

I am not upset with the Superior Sigil of Nullification fiasco because I want "instant gratification." I am upset because this entire situation has created an in-game paywall that has deterred me from actually playing the relevant A Star to Guide Us content. In comparison, the Staff of Palawa Joko weapon skin does encourage you to play patch-related content to acquire it. You work though story and map achievements and content to gather the associated pieces. One piece requires that you unlock 38 achievements. That's satisfiying to achieve that step, especially as a casual player. That's a Play-to-Win skin.

But the Sigil of Nullifications in the Requiem collection feels disconnected from what feels like the gradual flow of its collection steps. You do the first two (boots and pants) with little difficulty. There is a gradual increased higher demand between boots and pants. If you have done the story and explored the map, you probably have naturally acquired enough Mistonium for the first few pieces. You expect that it will likewise be slightly more requirements between piece two and three. What more will I need? But instead, you are suddently faced with a vertical pay-wall midway through the research. Not at the end. Not at the beginning before you acquire, but suddenly at the point where you attempt to make anything above your waist. It no longer feels like a gradually increasing difficulty. It makes you feel like you have to Buy-to-Win. I don't feel like I have won anything buy paying these Robber Barons. They are the ones who have won from these armor skins.

And so I just stopped. I want the armor. I want to actually earn the armor in a reasonable manner. It does not need to be instant gratification. Those who managed to buy Sigils of Nullification prior to the launch got their instant gratification. I don't need that. I have been around since Beta Weekend, but I did not finish crafting my first legendary until a few years ago. I do not, however, want to support a broken economic system. I do not want to reward the exploitation of the market by the select few. And I am dissatisfied with how ArenaNet's poor decision making with designing the collection steps for this armor led us to this megathread.

[Bloodstealer.5978]

@Alurazle.5430 said:

@Bloodstealer.5978 said:If ANET perceived that the issues being seen were unintended and a fix reqd, they would of already disabled the content pending any fix otherwise the fix becomes unfair to those who already bought gems or burned through tomes and bought lvl up tokens etc.The fact nothing has happened, not even a single worded uttered kinda suggests that all is working as they intended it to.Until an anet dev makes an actual statement and posts that it is intended to be this way, then everyone saying it's intended are just spitting out opinions. There have been so many bugs with traits, skill, events, and instances that were fixed because they weren't working as intended and weren't disabled at all and just took awhile to patch.

Of course it is all speculation and opinion, as is you posting.. no one knows the anything for sure here except it has caused an very mixed reaction amongst those on here and within game.But the facts are glaringly obvious to anyone with a smidgen of common sense.. . arbitrary item, unreliable supply, front centre release promo to stir the excitement, very obvious market manipulation almost immediately after release and not a word at least to say they were keeping an eye of the situation.

Nah I stick to my opinion that this was absolutely intended and intended for one purpose only.It's already gone past the point of fixing imo, the market has already been manipulated too long, pushing players to buy gems and convert or burn through their tomes and tokens, bought extra toons to keep rerolling, bought insta level tokens etc.... to fix now would make it just as unfair to those players.As I said previously, science and economics religion can be thrown at this as much as some players would like, but I personally believe the reasonings are much simpler otherwise the collection would of been implemented in a way that was fair to all, not the few.But yes it's all about opinion and now just comes down to a choice.. do you bite the bullet and make the armour while the sigils are silly prices or wait until it becomes less relevant or less impactful to you over time... or pass on it entirely of course.

[Cyninja.2954]

@Bloodstealer.5978 said:But yes it's all about opinion and now just comes down to a choice.. do you make the armour or wait until it becomes less relevant or less impactful to you over time... or pass on it entirely of course.

That was always the choice which it came down to. Some people are simply unsatisfied with having to make that choice.

[Bloodstealer.5978]

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Bloodstealer.5978 said:But yes it's all about opinion and now just comes down to a choice.. do you make the armour or wait until it becomes less relevant or less impactful to you over time... or pass on it entirely of course.

That was always the choice which it came down to. Some people are simply unsatisfied with having to make that choice.

Of course it was hence why you hype the item up in an effort to tug on players desire and sway choice.. that is not rocket science either, that is just business.

[Etterwyn.5263]

@Heibi.4251 said:

@"Blanche Neige.7241" said:After 27 pages, Anet should at least tell us something on this matter.

I have the feeling that if they are actually working on it they want to make sure the "fix" stays secret so as not affect the market as a whole.

I'm going to leak the insider info I have obtained: Drooburt will be selling them during the Halloween festival, for the low, low price of 250 Mystic Coins apiece. And you'll get a 5AP achievement and the "Nullified" title if you buy 25 of them.

[Etterwyn.5263]

@Scalpels.2809 said:

@"Atticus.7194" said:I can not fathom why they can't just have Gaile drop by and say "we're looking into a solution hold tight" and calm things down, just ya know SOMETHING.

Speculation on my part, but I suspect with the Halloween event right around the corner, all manpower is probably dedicated to that. A fix for this debacle might require more effort than just a few lines of code.

Whatever happens behind the scenes, I too got up to the point where I saw the price of the sigils and bowed out. As has been mentioned, I too refuse to give a dime to some bloke who's buddies with the right people to know ahead of time and/or data-miner.

It didn't happen that way though. The sigils sat on the TP at garbage price until the first people reached that point in the content. Someone then realized that the sigil for the collection couldn't be crafted and made a killer investment.

The TP buyout occurred hours after patch release. If it had been immediate then yes it would have been suspicious.

[Blanche Neige.7241]

@Atticus.7194 said:What really bothers me and prevents me from buying them at this price is that the only people benefitting from this anet mistake are those who were early enough to see and react to buy it all out.

And I think that is what annoy most players. It's not the cost itself, it's the fact that a few players are making tons of money on the back of the whole community because of this.

[LucianDK.8615]

Price gougers will be price gougers once they realize a new hot commodity

[Tanner Blackfeather.6509]

@Blanche Neige.7241 said:

@Atticus.7194 said:What really bothers me and prevents me from buying them at this price is that the only people benefitting from this anet mistake are those who were early enough to see and react to buy it all out.

And I think that is what annoy most players. It's not the cost itself, it's the fact that a few players are making tons of money on the back of the whole community because of this.

The people bothered by this can relax now, as those sigils are almost certainly gone.

Initial TP supply prior to patch was approx 22.5kDuring only the last 8 days, users of gw2efficiency have used just under 24k sigils. (See quoted post below)

@"Haleydawn.3764" said:

EDIT:https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/695374#Comment_695374September 25th, 8 days ago.Intermediary stages of Requiem;Requiem: Experiment 1- 6,354. Now completed by 8,741Requiem: Experiment 2 -5,313. Now completed by 7,684Requiem: Experiment 3 - 2,518 (10 sigils needed). Now completed by 3,481 (963 accounts in 8 days x 10 sigils= 9,630 Sigils)Requiem: Experiment 4 - 1,933 (5 Sigils needed) Now completed by 2,877 (944 accounts in 8 days x 5 sigils = 4720 Sigils)Requiem: Experiment 5 - 1,550 (5 Sigils needed) Now completed by 2,495 (945 accounts in 8 days x 5 sigils = 4725 Sigils)Requiem: Experiment 6 - 1,289 (5 Sigils needed) Now completed by 2,225 (936 accounts in 8 days x 5 Sigils = 4680 Sigils)

Total sigils used in 8 days = 23,755.

This means that a subset of players have removed a number if sigils surpassing the inital TP supply from the game during the second half of the time the collection have been out.

I'm not engaged enough to count how many sigils have been spent in total by gw2eff users, but this proves that one of two things much be true:Either the supply of the early-opportunity flippers are out and the sigils now being added come from widely across the player baseOr The inflow of new sigils have been big enough to match the flippers, meaning any purchase now is at least as likely to come from a "regular player" as from a "tp baron".In neither of these scenarios is the playerbase "held hostage" by those who bought up the existing supply.

[Hyper Cutter.9376]

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Bloodstealer.5978 said:But yes it's all about opinion and now just comes down to a choice.. do you make the armour or wait until it becomes less relevant or less impactful to you over time... or pass on it entirely of course.

That was always the choice which it came down to. Some people are simply unsatisfied with having to make that choice.And rightfully so! Allowing the robber barons to hold their new content hostage is a literally insane thing to do!

@Blanche Neige.7241 said:And I think that is what annoy most players. It's not the cost itself, it's the fact that a few players are making tons of money on the back of the whole community because of this.That, and that the whole thing is ridiculously unfair, with early adopters paying a fraction of what you have to pay now (compare that to, say, the griffin, which has a fixed cost everyone must pay equally).

[Gop.8713]

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Bloodstealer.5978 said:But yes it's all about opinion and now just comes down to a choice.. do you make the armour or wait until it becomes less relevant or less impactful to you over time... or pass on it entirely of course.

That was always the choice which it came down to. Some people are simply unsatisfied with having to make that choice.

And some ppl are incapable of understanding that the choice is anet's to control . . .

[Gop.8713]

@Tanner Blackfeather.6509 said:

@Blanche Neige.7241 said:

@Atticus.7194 said:What really bothers me and prevents me from buying them at this price is that the only people benefitting from this anet mistake are those who were early enough to see and react to buy it all out.

And I think that is what annoy most players. It's not the cost itself, it's the fact that a few players are making tons of money on the back of the whole community because of this.

The people bothered by this can relax now, as those sigils are almost certainly

gone

.

This is true, the flippers have made their gold by now and moved on. The only reason to resist now is to keep anet from profiting from and thereby encouraging this behavior . . .

[Cyninja.2954]

@Gop.8713 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Bloodstealer.5978 said:But yes it's all about opinion and now just comes down to a choice.. do you make the armour or wait until it becomes less relevant or less impactful to you over time... or pass on it entirely of course.

That was always the choice which it came down to. Some people are simply unsatisfied with having to make that choice.

And some ppl are incapable of understanding that the choice is anet's to control . . .

No it is not, Arenanet can affect the parameters but the choice is and always has been a persons personal one unless Arenanet changes the parameters to literally make it impossible or close to impossible to achieve a desired result. Affecting choice =/= making it, unless as mentioned the choice given is a farce, which it is not in this case.

An expensive (and not even most expensive at that) choice is not impossible, far from it. So it comes down to personal choice IF you want to spend the required amount of gold.

By now price has been quite stable and the flipped stock will likely have been consumed (actually a few days ago probably) so players can now decide: do they want to spend x amount of gold on these skins or not. This choice was always available at every point in time at different price points. The fact that no hot fix was implemented indicates that Arenanet are fine with the total price, at least enough to not address it. Now live with that fact and deal with it, it's not going to change in the near future.

[Astralporing.1957]

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Gop.8713 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Bloodstealer.5978 said:But yes it's all about opinion and now just comes down to a choice.. do you make the armour or wait until it becomes less relevant or less impactful to you over time... or pass on it entirely of course.

That was always the choice which it came down to. Some people are simply unsatisfied with having to make that choice.

And some ppl are incapable of understanding that the choice is anet's to control . . .

No it is not, Arenanet can affect the parameters but the choice is and always has been a persons personal one unless Arenanet changes the parameters to literally make it impossible or close to impossible to achieve a desired result. Affecting choice =/= making it, unless as mentioned the choice given is a farce, which it is not in this case.Well, in this case the choice offered is bad regardless on what you decide upon, so it

is

a farce.

And it's not on players, because players are not capable of changing those parameters they are offered. If there's no good choice, then there's no good choice, no matter your decision.

[Cyninja.2954]

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Gop.8713 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@"Bloodstealer.5978" said:But yes it's all about opinion and now just comes down to a choice.. do you make the armour or wait until it becomes less relevant or less impactful to you over time... or pass on it entirely of course.

That was always the choice which it came down to. Some people are simply unsatisfied with having to make that choice.

And some ppl are incapable of understanding that the choice is anet's to control . . .

No it is not, Arenanet can affect the parameters but the choice is and always has been a persons personal one unless Arenanet changes the parameters to literally make it impossible or close to impossible to achieve a desired result. Affecting choice =/= making it, unless as mentioned the choice given is a farce, which it is not in this case.Well, in this case the choice offered is bad regardless on what you decide upon, so it

is

a farce.

And it's not on players, because players are not capable of changing those parameters they are offered. If there's no good choice, then there's no good choice, no matter your decision.

That is up to how you define a "good choice". Even a bad choice is choice. I never said Arenanet made this a great choice or an amazing beneficial choice, I said the player has THE CHOICE in this case spending 300 gold (approximately), waiting to see if the price drops or not ever completing the collection.

Arguing that 300 gold is a bad choice in a game where there is tons of more exclusive items seems weird to me but I will not try to persuade people to change their mind on this. Still to equate a subjective bad choice with a farce is stretching it imo.

EDIT: and just to put this in perspective, there is a video of how to make gold in this game with up to 200 gold per day right on the front page. Now even with a fraction of the play time, we are looking at up to a week of gold farming for people who do not make a lot of gold daily. That's to much already? In a MMO? For optional not required skins which remain available and are not time restricted? I don't see the farce.

[Turkeyspit.3965]

@"Obtena.7952" said:

Availability ... and NO data we have access to will tell you if that's in a good place or not.

Then in the absence of data we must resort to extrapolation.

Sigils that can be crafted from harvestable/salvageable mats, or mats purchased off the TP + Sigils available for purchase from NPC vendors.vs.Sigil that can only be obtained by hitting LV 64, random result from putting 4 sigils in the Mystic Forge, or salvageable from Exotic weapons that drop randomly in game.

You need 25 sigils in order to complete a collection that is available to any player who engages in the LS content.

Using the info I posted above, which I believe is irrefutable (please supply corrections if I've erred), and being completely objective, is the Sigil of Nullification in a "good place or not"?

[Tyson.5160]

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Gop.8713 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Bloodstealer.5978 said:But yes it's all about opinion and now just comes down to a choice.. do you make the armour or wait until it becomes less relevant or less impactful to you over time... or pass on it entirely of course.

That was always the choice which it came down to. Some people are simply unsatisfied with having to make that choice.

And some ppl are incapable of understanding that the choice is anet's to control . . .

No it is not, Arenanet can affect the parameters but the choice is and always has been a persons personal one unless Arenanet changes the parameters to literally make it impossible or close to impossible to achieve a desired result. Affecting choice =/= making it, unless as mentioned the choice given is a farce, which it is not in this case.

An expensive (and not even most expensive at that) choice is not impossible, far from it. So it comes down to personal choice IF you want to spend the required amount of gold.

By now price has been quite stable and the flipped stock will likely have been consumed (actually a few days ago probably) so players can now decide: do they want to spend x amount of gold on these skins or not. This choice was always available at every point in time at different price points. The fact that no hot fix was implemented indicates that Arenanet are fine with the total price, at least enough to not address it. Now live with that fact and deal with it, it's not going to change in the near future.

Like I said before, it comes to supporting Anet, if this sort of stuff angers you, you have the choice to either buy gems or not by gems.

Personally, I don’t like this sort of behaviour to be supported, hence they won’t be getting my money(which they did before). The players do hold a considerable amount of power. If the community becomes unhappy, they will refuse to spend their hard earned RL money to support these sorts of things. In the long run that hurts Anet.

[Cyninja.2954]

@Tyson.5160 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Gop.8713 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Bloodstealer.5978 said:But yes it's all about opinion and now just comes down to a choice.. do you make the armour or wait until it becomes less relevant or less impactful to you over time... or pass on it entirely of course.

That was always the choice which it came down to. Some people are simply unsatisfied with having to make that choice.

And some ppl are incapable of understanding that the choice is anet's to control . . .

No it is not, Arenanet can affect the parameters but the choice is and always has been a persons personal one unless Arenanet changes the parameters to literally make it impossible or close to impossible to achieve a desired result. Affecting choice =/= making it, unless as mentioned the choice given is a farce, which it is not in this case.

An expensive (and not even most expensive at that) choice is not impossible, far from it. So it comes down to personal choice IF you want to spend the required amount of gold.

By now price has been quite stable and the flipped stock will likely have been consumed (actually a few days ago probably) so players can now decide: do they want to spend x amount of gold on these skins or not. This choice was always available at every point in time at different price points. The fact that no hot fix was implemented indicates that Arenanet are fine with the total price, at least enough to not address it. Now live with that fact and deal with it, it's not going to change in the near future.

Like I said before, it comes to supporting Anet, if this sort of stuff angers you, you have the choice to either buy gems or not by gems.

Personally, I don’t like this sort of behaviour to be supported, hence they won’t be getting my money(which they did before). The players do hold a considerable amount of power. If the community becomes unhappy, they will refuse to spend their hard earned RL money to support these sorts of things. In the long run that hurts Anet.

True, and it makes sense to vote with your wallet. I'm not some one to tell others what to like or dislike, I just don't like having hyperbole thrown around with incorrect use of terminology.

It makes fact checking murkier, understanding what is happening harder and in general leaves less experienced or knowledgeable people at a disadvantage or with an incorrect opinion.

It is fine to be angry or displeased with how this collection was added if you feel that way. It is fine to assume things like Arenanet wanting to encourage gem sales. But please understand the difference between cause and effect and the terminology used (not you specifically but in general).