Superior Sigil of Nullification [Merged]

raykor.6723 · October 9, 2018

This situation sets a nasty precedent for future LWS releases as I suspect a number of people will now feel the need to rush through new content to find the next great profiteering opportunity.

mtpelion.4562 · October 9, 2018

@raykor.6723 said:This situation sets a nasty precedent for future LWS releases as I suspect a number of people will now feel the need to rush through new content to find the next great profiteering opportunity.

That's the way it has always been, nothing new about this.

nekretaal.6485 · October 9, 2018

If Halloween has some kind of exotic weapon like a different skin pumpkin smasher with a Nullication Sigil, then that probably solves the issue. The Nullification Sigil shouldn't be 13 gold, but it shouldn't be less than 10 silver either.

Gop.8713 · October 9, 2018

@Tanner Blackfeather.6509 said:
@Talindra.4958 said:The person who hold the supply can play games with you to manipulate the price. He can fake few orders .. you put on top, he put on top of you again .. someone else put on top, he will push it up again, until next person silly enough to place an order of 10 .. he will sell directly.My advice is if you really desperately must buy it now, buy soulshard and grimward to salvage instead. Both weapons drop very frequently in raids. You get genuine supply during raid reset

The likelyhood that anyone

actually

controls supply now is miniscule, given how many sigils that have been used for collections vs how many were on the TP prior to the patch. Anyone trying to buy up new supply to relist higher is bleeding gold with no hope to make it back from this.

Arguably, a few people likely controlled the supply the first few days but once those sigils were spent on collections that control is also gone.

There is still profit to be had in buying and relisting it's just that it now involves risk, which is as it should be . . .

Pirindolo.9427 · October 9, 2018

Well, in case there was someone still hoping for who-knows-what from Anet about the sigil issue, there you have the confirmation. 2000, 2500 or 5000000 posts won't change anything. Sigils, as I said more than a thousand posts ago, are (sadly) working as intended.

Gop.8713 · October 9, 2018

@mtpelion.4562 said:
@raykor.6723 said:This situation sets a nasty precedent for future LWS releases as I suspect a number of people will now feel the need to rush through new content to find the next great profiteering opportunity.

That's the way it has always been, nothing new about this.

That is true, and there's nothing wrong with it. Ppl enjoy the game differently and that's great. What's different here is that that playstyle actually created a barrier for ppl who played through the content at an average pace and while I doubt that anet will make that error again, the precedent -- and particularly the lack of a solution -- does create concern that they could and that could cause ppl to rush through the content just to avoid getting screwed over, and that is a negative outcome . . .

Gop.8713 · October 9, 2018

@nekretaal.6485 said:If Halloween has some kind of exotic weapon like a different skin pumpkin smasher with a Nullication Sigil, then that probably solves the issue. The Nullification Sigil shouldn't be 13 gold, but it shouldn't be less than 10 silver either.

That would be a really neat and convenient solution since it would introduce a burst of supply but wouldn't be available indefinitely. I'm just not sure they would have had time to implement it into that content that was likely finalized before the problem arose. Given that we haven't heard anything on the issue yet, I'm not sure they are really concerned with a fix at all at this point . . .

Ayrilana.1396 · October 9, 2018

It can be added as a daily reward for completing the JP although I’m not entirely sure if that would end up producing too many.

maddoctor.2738 · October 9, 2018

@"nekretaal.6485" said:If Halloween has some kind of exotic weapon like a different skin pumpkin smasher with a Nullication Sigil, then that probably solves the issue. The Nullification Sigil shouldn't be 13 gold, but it shouldn't be less than 10 silver either.

There are 3 new weapons.

Three new weapons are also on the way! These took inspiration from real-world horror tropes: a syringe that functions as a dagger called The Cure, a lightning rod players can wield as a sword called Soul Conductor, and a butcher knife players can use as an axe called Revenge.

Maybe they all have sigils of nullification!

source: https://mmohuts.com/news/guild-wars-2s-shadow-mad-king-returns-october/

Gop.8713 · October 9, 2018

@Ayrilana.1396 said:It can be added as a daily reward for completing the JP although I’m not entirely sure if that would end up producing too many.

Oh yes pls. Oh god pls yes . . .

Pinstripe.4915 · October 9, 2018

How about for new collections and whatnot we don't abuse unrelated items and instead re-evaluate existing items which are currently in a bad spot?

Heibi.4251 · October 9, 2018

@Pirindolo.9427 said:Well, in case there was someone still hoping for who-knows-what from Anet about the sigil issue, there you have the confirmation. 2000, 2500 or 5000000 posts won't change anything. Sigils, as I said more than a thousand posts ago, are (sadly) working as intended.

Since ANeT has not responded I would say they aren't working as intended. They just can't tell us what they're going to do. They most likely wouldn't want to give the same people who drove the cost up to go out and start fixing the price of the new item or material. So, no, I'll wait to see if they put in a fix or finally grace us with an answer. To let a thread got this far without answering is not what they usually do. They tend to respond. I'm sure they're watching the thread.

Talindra.4958 · October 9, 2018

Half a year later the price will go down ?

I put an order at 9 g 20s for 7 (to get first piece) and there were so many ppl above my order on the weekends, guess what i woke up next morning and I got it all. I was very surprised. Someone is definitely playing in the tp. And to get to my order, its either removing his own fake orders and or selling couple others order to get to me, bcos the highest order were above 12g.The day after I got it for 9.2g, the price gone to 13g+ up and ~ 12g .. it's crazy.. Im not going to buy anymore directly. This person must have many many stacks stocked up to play this. I will order for grimward and soulshard to salv insteadAm doing pieces by pieces slowly

Checking spidy data, 19 sep listing volume were 22,431 at 2.57s. Day after listing vulome become 2282. You can see daily buying volume as well.

Bazs.1470 · October 9, 2018

The fact that no developer touched the forum thread sends a clear message that the devs do not care about this problem. Every time they had an intention to fix something, someone from the devs come and left at least a single sentecte that "We're working on the fix" or something like that.

Not fixing this mess is not that bad on their side: they had one more sigil that have value in the game, they have something that people can farm and sink their gold into while they can't drop new content for another 3-4 months, they can tell that the game have more "prestigious rewards" for dedicated players. After all, people will eventually move on and forget that a bunch of exotic armor skins are more expensive than a full set of ascended armor. The only shame is the game fell this low on what is considered to be interesting long-term content: farm gold, that is not even connected to any of the new content, because you run raid, fractal or other stuff to get money, not running around the new map.

If this will be the method of giving the playerbase interesting rewards is the future, then the game might have some issues.

Super Hayes.6890 · October 10, 2018

Congrats on 31 pages OP! You are popular :)

Is this the point where we create many new threads as an attention grab? Joking everyone, calm down. Seriously though, if I want this sigil for it's functionality in the game I have to pay what now? If the sigil's actual intended function is worth the trading post price then there is no problem. Since we all know it isn't the collection requirement needs to be changed to some junk item that can also be sold on the TP so that this sigil can serve it's intended purpose. Simple fact is that this sigil price is not okay since it is not being purchased to use in weapons.

Obtena.7952 · October 10, 2018

@Super Hayes.6890 said:Congrats on 31 pages OP! You are popular :)
Is this the point where we create many new threads as an attention grab? Joking everyone, calm down. Seriously though, if I want this sigil for it's functionality in the game I have to pay what now? If the sigil's actual intended function is worth the trading post price then there is no problem. Since we all know it isn't the collection requirement needs to be changed to some junk item that can also be sold on the TP so that this sigil can serve it's intended purpose. Simple fact is that this sigil price is not okay since it is not being purchased to use in weapons.

Wait ... that doesn't make sense here. Where the sigil is used as a mat is irrelevant to if the price is OK or not (which in most scenarios is completely subjective based on the player to begin with). That's not how the market works at all. I'm also pretty sure that if the sigil was being used in weapons, it would be irrelevant to the people complaining about it as well. It's just not a factor.

Pirindolo.9427 · October 10, 2018

@Heibi.4251 said:
@Pirindolo.9427 said:Well, in case there was someone still hoping for who-knows-what from Anet about the sigil issue, there you have the confirmation. 2000, 2500 or 5000000 posts won't change anything. Sigils, as I said more than a thousand posts ago, are (sadly) working as intended.

Since ANeT has not responded I would say they aren't working as intended. They just can't tell us what they're going to do. They most likely wouldn't want to give the same people who drove the cost up to go out and start fixing the price of the new item or material. So, no, I'll wait to see if they put in a fix or finally grace us with an answer. To let a thread got this far without answering is not what they usually do. They tend to respond. I'm sure they're watching the thread.

Of course they are, but they won't say anything (I said this 1,500 posts ago also), because they simply prefer to let the thread die.If they had a single doubt about the sigil problem, they would have shared it already with the community. They haven't any.

Glider.5792 · October 10, 2018

@Pirindolo.9427 said:
@Heibi.4251 said:
@Pirindolo.9427 said:Well, in case there was someone still hoping for who-knows-what from Anet about the sigil issue, there you have the confirmation. 2000, 2500 or 5000000 posts won't change anything. Sigils, as I said more than a thousand posts ago, are (sadly) working as intended.

Since ANeT has not responded I would say they aren't working as intended. They just can't tell us what they're going to do. They most likely wouldn't want to give the same people who drove the cost up to go out and start fixing the price of the new item or material. So, no, I'll wait to see if they put in a fix or finally grace us with an answer. To let a thread got this far without answering is not what they usually do. They tend to respond. I'm sure they're watching the thread.

Of course they are, but they won't say anything (I said this 1,500 posts ago also), because they simply prefer to let the thread die.If they had a single doubt about the sigil problem, they would have shared it already with the community. They haven't any.

Not realy. I also would state nothing in their case regarding this issue.If they suddenly say that they are implementing a new source, every hoarder would insta-sell all of their sigils they have left. The demand for sigils would suddenly fall, and some people that couldnt take their orders off would yet again feel cheated. If they release it with a new patch, and tell about the new source in the patchnotes everything i described would only happen once the patch would hit. Most people don't read the forums, but many more do actualy check the patchnotes.If they would tell us that sigil aint getting a new source, nothing would change regarding the economy imo, but they would get a ton of direct complaint towards them on the forum.

Lambent.6375 · October 10, 2018

@"Bazs.1470" said:The fact that no developer touched the forum thread sends a clear message that the devs do not care about this problem. Every time they had an intention to fix something, someone from the devs come and left at least a single sentecte that "We're working on the fix" or something like that.
Not fixing this mess is not that bad on their side: they had one more sigil that have value in the game, they have something that people can farm and sink their gold into while they can't drop new content for another 3-4 months, they can tell that the game have more "prestigious rewards" for dedicated players. After all, people will eventually move on and forget that a bunch of exotic armor skins are more expensive than a full set of ascended armor. The only shame is the game fell this low on what is considered to be interesting long-term content: farm gold, that is not even connected to any of the new content, because you run raid, fractal or other stuff to get money, not running around the new map.
If this will be the method of giving the playerbase interesting rewards is the future, then the game might have some issues.

Working as intended it, fits the "grind for skins, not stats" ideal.

People didn't want vertical progression, so they replace the grind with skins instead, trying to appeal to the mmo players that prefer the grind, and now people even want to get rid of even that. :/

Moira Shalaar.5620 · October 10, 2018

@Lambent.6375 said:
@"Bazs.1470" said:The fact that no developer touched the forum thread sends a clear message that the devs do not care about this problem. Every time they had an intention to fix something, someone from the devs come and left at least a single sentecte that "We're working on the fix" or something like that.
Not fixing this mess is not that bad on their side: they had one more sigil that have value in the game, they have something that people can farm and sink their gold into while they can't drop new content for another 3-4 months, they can tell that the game have more "prestigious rewards" for dedicated players. After all, people will eventually move on and forget that a
bunch of exotic armor skins are more expensive than a full set of ascended armor
. The only shame is the game fell this low on what is considered to be interesting long-term content: farm gold, that is not even connected to any of the new content, because you run raid, fractal or other stuff to get money, not running around the new map.
If this will be the method of giving the playerbase interesting rewards is the future, then the game might have some issues.

Working as intended it, fits the "grind for skins, not stats" ideal.

People didn't want vertical progression, so they replace the grind with skins instead, trying to appeal to the mmo players that prefer the grind, and now people even want to get rid of even that. :/

I think you mistake “pay egregious profiteers” with “grind for skins”. I farm mats rather than buy them. I do events, etc. for collections. I am willing to play the content, even tedious content repeatedly if necessary. However here there is no way to play and directly earn the skins. If we want the ascended armor, We are stuck with literally 2 options: buy a slot and burn leveling tomes until they are gone and then level up agonizingly slowly (at least slowly in the context of 25x) or pay some players who burned through the story fast and then bought up most of the supply so they could hold these skins ransom.

I had not intended to buy any more character slots, I am happy with the number of chars I have, so who do I reward? Do I buy gems and pay Anet for this design that lends itself to this sort of greedy, unethical abuse for a slot so I can “grind for skins” as you so cavalierly put it? Or do I reward the profiteering manipulators directly who know that there are enough high gold gamers to support the high prices and don’t care if they screw the rest of the player base? Either option is unpalatable. There are a few who win at the expense of everyone else. For a company that is so progressive in other areas, this scenario comes up depressingly often.

“Grinding for skins” is fine, just don’t lock it behind opportunistic profiteers.

Cyninja.2954 · October 10, 2018

@Moira Shalaar.5620 said:
@Lambent.6375 said:
@"Bazs.1470" said:The fact that no developer touched the forum thread sends a clear message that the devs do not care about this problem. Every time they had an intention to fix something, someone from the devs come and left at least a single sentecte that "We're working on the fix" or something like that.
Not fixing this mess is not that bad on their side: they had one more sigil that have value in the game, they have something that people can farm and sink their gold into while they can't drop new content for another 3-4 months, they can tell that the game have more "prestigious rewards" for dedicated players. After all, people will eventually move on and forget that a
bunch of exotic armor skins are more expensive than a full set of ascended armor
. The only shame is the game fell this low on what is considered to be interesting long-term content: farm gold, that is not even connected to any of the new content, because you run raid, fractal or other stuff to get money, not running around the new map.
If this will be the method of giving the playerbase interesting rewards is the future, then the game might have some issues.

Working as intended it, fits the "grind for skins, not stats" ideal.

People didn't want vertical progression, so they replace the grind with skins instead, trying to appeal to the mmo players that prefer the grind, and now people even want to get rid of even that. :/

I think you mistake “pay egregious profiteers” with “grind for skins”. I farm mats rather than buy them. I do events, etc. for collections. I am willing to play the content, even tedious content repeatedly if necessary. However here there is no way to play and directly earn the skins. If we want the ascended armor, We are stuck with literally 2 options: buy a slot and burn leveling tomes until they are gone and then level up agonizingly slowly (at least slowly in the context of 25x) or pay some players who burned through the story fast and then bought up most of the supply so they could hold these skins ransom.

I had not intended to buy any more character slots, I am happy with the number of chars I have, so who do I reward? Do I buy gems and pay Anet for this design that lends itself to this sort of greedy, unethical abuse for a slot so I can “grind for skins” as you so cavalierly put it? Or do I reward the profiteering manipulators directly who know that there are enough high gold gamers to support the high prices and don’t care if they screw the rest of the player base? Either option is unpalatable. There are a few who win at the expense of everyone else. For a company that is so progressive in other areas, this scenario comes up depressingly often.

“Grinding for skins” is fine, just don’t lock it behind opportunistic profiteers.

Assuming that all or most (or even any) supply on the trading post currently is from pre patch stock. Which it is not. The math would not even add up. The pre patch stock on the TP was around 25k Sigils , at over 100k Sigils used by now (for only GW2efficiancy registered accounts, actual used up amount will be higher unlike stock on the TP since that is tracked), that is less than 1/4 of all Sigils used on this collection so far.

If you do not want to spend gold on the TP for other players Sigils that's fine. Please don't blame flippers 2 weeks in for this though, that is beyond silly.

Moira Shalaar.5620 · October 10, 2018

@"Cyninja.2954" said:Assuming that all or most (or even any) supply on the trading post currently is from pre patch stock. Which it is not. The math would not even add up. The pre patch stock on the TP was around 25k Sigils , at over 100k Sigils used by now (for only GW2efficiancy registered accounts, actual used up amount will be higher unlike stock on the TP since that is tracked), that is less than 1/4 of all Sigils used on this collection so far.
If you do not want to spend gold on the TP for other players Sigils that's fine. Please don't blame flippers 2 weeks in for this though, that is beyond silly.

I will readily admit that I am lacking data, primarily the rate of inflow of these sigils into the market. You are absolutely right that the number of sigils removed far exceeds the initial supply, however, I think you are making an assumption on time that may not be entirely accurate. I assume that anybody left grumping here has a fair idea of how flipping works, but for those who deny market manipulation is a thing, here is a little data, straight from gw2tp.com. Times may change depending on your timezone. Prices are gold.silver.copper.

18 Sept 9:01pm-->10:00pmSupply: 21957-->4785sell: 0.2.55-->0:25:80

19 SeptSupply: 632sell: 1.97.95

21 Sept 5;00am-->11:00amSupply: 193-->1761sell: 9.0.0-->4.89.48

22 Sept 9:04pm-->23 Sept 7:02pmSupply: 89-->1910sell: 13.49.99-->7.88.91

28 Sept 9:03am-->3:04pmSupply: 63-->360sell: 18.84.98-->14:61:97

5 Oct - from 3am --> 5 amSupply: 1226--> 1353sell: 13.77.74-->11:52:48

In the initial hour there, supply went from ~22k to ~4.7k. That is creating an artificial scarcity in the market. 17172 sigils were purchased in that hour. Now if you watch over that next couple days prices begin to rise as players become aware of their need for the sigil and its lack on the TP, the only "reliable" way of obtaining it with ease. But by 21 Sept you see flippers starting to test the waters releasing part of their supply back in, recouping their initial investment. The supply increases by 1568 in 6 hours. That is on a Friday, before the weekend rush. I contrast that with the 22-23 Sept data which shows another peak & slow decline over the weekend that is more likely players playing and bringing sigils into the game, as well as consuming them for the collection. There is another bottoming out of supply and peak of price on 28 Sept where the supply goes up 297 over 6 hours, again on a Friday before the weekend rush. The final clearly discernible peak is on 5 Oct.

Flipping + manipulation works by creating that artificial scarcity, then waiting a bit while demand goes up then slowly trickling out that supply to maintain a constant price that is beneficial to the person flipping. there is a balance between recouping their initial expense and profiting off the highest price they can push it to. They dump slowly so they don't cause the prices to drop too quickly, too far, so they can sustain their profits as long as possible, with the overall goal ofc is to sell as many as possible at the highest possible price.

That means that even with a constant flow of sigils into the game with people playing normally, or even madly trying to farm them with tomes all flippers have to do is moderate how many they sell off and the price stays "stable", as long as influx does not completely meet need. Would the prices have reached there anyway? Possibly. But their creation of artificial scarcity sped up that process rapidly. Is it possible that those early profiteers have sold off all their sigils and now all that is left is the high price and the balanced supply and demand? Maybe. But I have no way of determining if what is being sold comes from flippers, who were visibly present at least as recently as 10/5 and what out there comes from other players simply taking advantage of a resource they have while they can. Ultimately Anet is absolutely responsible for creating this situation. But flippers profiteering the way they clearly and demonstrably have, to the extent that they have, exacerbate the issue is egregious. Don't get me wrong, I have no problem in general with people making money off the TP. I have a problem with the extent to which they grotesquely profiteer off of these kinds of situations. 0.2.55-18.84.98 is grotesque.

*edited for clarity of change over time in prices and supply

Lambent.6375 · October 10, 2018

@Moira Shalaar.5620 said:
@Lambent.6375 said:
@"Bazs.1470" said:The fact that no developer touched the forum thread sends a clear message that the devs do not care about this problem. Every time they had an intention to fix something, someone from the devs come and left at least a single sentecte that "We're working on the fix" or something like that.
Not fixing this mess is not that bad on their side: they had one more sigil that have value in the game, they have something that people can farm and sink their gold into while they can't drop new content for another 3-4 months, they can tell that the game have more "prestigious rewards" for dedicated players. After all, people will eventually move on and forget that a
bunch of exotic armor skins are more expensive than a full set of ascended armor
. The only shame is the game fell this low on what is considered to be interesting long-term content: farm gold, that is not even connected to any of the new content, because you run raid, fractal or other stuff to get money, not running around the new map.
If this will be the method of giving the playerbase interesting rewards is the future, then the game might have some issues.

Working as intended it, fits the "grind for skins, not stats" ideal.

People didn't want vertical progression, so they replace the grind with skins instead, trying to appeal to the mmo players that prefer the grind, and now people even want to get rid of even that. :/

I think you mistake “pay egregious profiteers” with “grind for skins”. I farm mats rather than buy them. I do events, etc. for collections. I am willing to play the content, even tedious content repeatedly if necessary. However here there is no way to play and directly earn the skins. If we want the ascended armor, We are stuck with literally 2 options: buy a slot and burn leveling tomes until they are gone and then level up agonizingly slowly (at least slowly in the context of 25x) or pay some players who burned through the story fast and then bought up most of the supply so they could hold these skins ransom.

I had not intended to buy any more character slots, I am happy with the number of chars I have, so who do I reward? Do I buy gems and pay Anet for this design that lends itself to this sort of greedy, unethical abuse for a slot so I can “grind for skins” as you so cavalierly put it? Or do I reward the profiteering manipulators directly who know that there are enough high gold gamers to support the high prices and don’t care if they screw the rest of the player base? Either option is unpalatable. There are a few who win at the expense of everyone else. For a company that is so progressive in other areas, this scenario comes up depressingly often.

“Grinding for skins” is fine, just don’t lock it behind opportunistic profiteers.

I wasn't talking about you, I was referring to a comment Bazs made in his post.

meant to bold it but i messed something up.

It was this

"forget that a bunch of exotic armor skins are more expensive than a full set of ascended armor."

Cyninja.2954 · October 10, 2018

@Moira Shalaar.5620 said:
@"Cyninja.2954" said:Assuming that all or most (or even any) supply on the trading post currently is from pre patch stock. Which it is not. The math would not even add up. The pre patch stock on the TP was around 25k Sigils , at over 100k Sigils used by now (for only GW2efficiancy registered accounts, actual used up amount will be higher unlike stock on the TP since that is tracked), that is less than 1/4 of all Sigils used on this collection so far.
If you do not want to spend gold on the TP for other players Sigils that's fine. Please don't blame flippers 2 weeks in for this though, that is beyond silly.