We Need More Expansive End-Game Content

[wickedkae.4980]

Lack of interesting in depth end game content is why I now play ESO far more. ESO allows your character to progress and gain power while you out in the world doing all kinds of things. We do not have this in the GW2. Once you max out your HP and MP, you are stuck.

[Dante.1763]

@Danikat.8537 said:

@kharmin.7683 said:

@"Xstein.2187" said:For example, the episode "A Star to Guide Us" contained 9 new minis. Who wants to jump through those hoops? Who on gods green Earth wants to collect another 9 new minis when they can only equip ONE.

Summoning @Danikat.8537

You are correct. :)

I'm not the only one either. There are quite a few other mini pet collectors in the game, although we can be hard to spot...unless it's me in which case I keep going on about it. And of course there's people who will get any mini pet which appeals to them, even if they're not aiming for a full set.

I love collecting minis!! But the karma cost! D;

@wickedkae.4980 said:Lack of interesting in depth end game content is why I now play ESO far more. ESO allows your character to progress and gain power while you out in the world doing all kinds of things. We do not have this in the GW2. Once you max out your HP and MP, you are stuck.

Yes. As the game was designed and marketed.

[Danikat.8537]

@wickedkae.4980 said:Lack of interesting in depth end game content is why I now play ESO far more. ESO allows your character to progress and gain power while you out in the world doing all kinds of things. We do not have this in the GW2. Once you max out your HP and MP, you are stuck.

I prefer that to the ESO system where once you earn and apply enough champion points it makes everything except veteran trials stupidly easy and boring. I only apply CP on my crafter and thief, and then only to compensate for all their skill points going to non-combat skills. Otherwise it just gradually removes any challenge from combat.

Admittedly I don't think it has to be one or the other but it's a difficult balancing act to keep the people who want constant power progression happy without making older/easier content irrelevant and I'm not sure any game has actually managed it yet. And if I have to choose I much prefer a game where I can play all of the content without it feeling trivial over one where I get to see bigger numbers in the combat log periodically but all the fights are boring.

[OrcasWorld.3271]

@Vayne.8563 said:

@zealex.9410 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:I can see what the OP is asking for and you know, I wouldn't mind more ways to play the game. However, I doubt t hat would necessarily solve anything big scale. Someone that's played a game for five years and is bored sounds like every single other MMO I've ever played. I've seen these threads on WoW forums. I've seen these threads on FF XIV forums. Once you do the stuff the game is designed for, of course there's going to be less to do. It's just logical. All MMOs end up like this because development takes time and developing one thing means slacking on something else.

That said, the Living World maps that are coming out now are far more interesting to me than any kind of instanced content or any kind of PvP, so I'm not so sure what adding that stuff will accomplish to the playerbase as a whole. What would happen however is this. There'd be an entirely different game type to screw up balancing, to making it harder to make changes moving into the future.

Guild missions have existed in this game for ages, and I can't remember the last time they were updated. My guild still runs them, but it's just another type of content that was left behind. I'd rather see existing content updated than adding new types.

Diff is in ff14 said content gets added much more often.

But it's focused on content I don't want or care about, dungeons and raids. And you pay $15 a month for that content, but maybe it is. I can't say because I don't play it. I did try. Out of all the popular MMOs, it was my least favorite over all...and yes, I know it's quite popular.

Sorry, Vayne, ol' buddy, but you're wrong: as someone who spends FAR too much time playing FFXIV, I can tell you that each patch release (about every 4 months) has an amazing amount of content. Yes, there are more dungeons and raids. There are also additions and extensions to the main story quest; often new jobs or classes; new areas to explore; new weapons and armor; new dynamic events. I'm consistently impressed with the amount of new content SE cranks out, and it's across the board. The game has a far greater breadth than any other I've seen.I won't claim it's perfect; it's not, by a long way. It's certainly less casual-friendly than GW2. And it does cost $15 a month, though I find I spend less money on FFXIV than I did on GW2, since I don't have to constantly buy stuff to succeed.But the bottom line is that from personal experience I can tell you that FFXIV gets a great deal more content of every sort added on a regular basis than I ever saw in my time on GW2.

[maddoctor.2738]

If you take a look at the list of things we got in 2018 (direct comparison) we got very very little compared to 2017 and that's without counting Path of Fire.We got more episodes in 2017, more Raids, more fractals, more new zones, more new legendary items, more of nearly everything, and again without counting what we got in the expansion, if we count Path of Fire too, the difference between 2017 and 2018 is gigantic.

What I'm trying to say here, since we won't get an expansion after Season 4, is that Season 5 and maybe the end episodes of Season 4 will be way bigger than what we've seen so far. I hope for 2019 to have more than double the content of 2018, in all areas of the game, to match (or surpass) what we got in 2017. So more content is coming.If in 2019 we get the same small amount of content we got in 2018 then I'd be really disappointed.

[Gehenna.3625]

@"cletiscake.9173" said:I've been feeling very detached from the game for the past couple of years and don't really play that much at all anymore. I feel like there's no point to anything I do. I've got a few Legendaries, got my Fractal backpack, played the story, pvp'ed a little. But what else is there to do? All those things that i've accomplished required me to do extremely mundane things, like repeating the same content over and over, farming maps over and over. And for what? An arbitrary amount of currency so I could buy that one thing I want. There's no rewards in between. Nothing else to get me excited. Nothing else to save me from the drudgery of yet another time and money sink to acquire a "skin".

That's GW2 in a nutshell and it still surprise me to this day that people didn't see through that from the start.Why not create more open world bosses? Open-world raids? Battlegrounds for pvp, like in WoW? Can you imagine how fun it would be to have something like Alterac Valley in GW2? It would certainly get me excited to PvP. Let's face it, we haven't had any new ways to play the game, or new things to do in this game in a very long time. New maps with living world releases don't count. I can go have the same experience in any other living world map, and receive the same non-existent rewards. There needs to be more group content with more "tangible" rewards, not just currency. I feel like all repeatable group or solo content in the game can be summed up into one sentence: "What is the most profitable?" It shouldn't be like this. Players should be able to pick and choose their content based on the unique rewards that content provides. We are playing an RPG after all.

You need to distinguish between group content and structured group content more clearly. Open world bosses currently may be seen as group content but it's not structured. Everybody gets there when they do and just joins in the zerg. Very very few world bosses have mechanics that have any depth. I don't think that there are enough people to warrant a lot of structured group content to be added because it seems the game is aimed at casual play more than anything. So I fully expect most players to be too casual for a lot of your ideas. Also I doubt they want to mess too much with existing maps.

The thing is that ArenaNet does use the same patterns over and over again. So even when it looks different, it's still the same. Now to a degree that cannot be avoided, but it's become more and more obvious over time I suppose.

This means creating rewards for players like unique skins for different areas. Create a Dungeon set armour that you need to craft, not just buy with tokens. Create a Fractals set of armour to craft. Give us Legendary armor for non-raiders, even if it means we just obtain the functionality, but not the look. Give us more of a reason to explore the world you created. Make gear drops a thing. Let cool armour and weapons drop from bosses. Give players a reason to group up together and have fun and get rewards.

This makes sense to me but they do need to keep the gem store turning with cosmetic sales so they prefer to limit the skins in game.Don't make us continue to farm fractals everyday, for zero rewards other than currency. That is just a job with extra steps. I'm playing an MMO-RPG. I'm here to adventure with people, kill monsters, and get cool stuff to show for it. I'm not here to work for currency so I can save up and buy something.

Basically, make this game an MMO-RPG again. Thanks.Well it's never been anything but what you've described so I'm not sure why you say "again". It's not like it stopped being what it was...it was always this, from day one.

The only reason I play the game is because I haven't for most of the past years and I just decided to treat it like a solo casual game where I run into people that happen to be there and from time to time jump into events and world bosses. That keeps my sanity. Basically I'm saying that your expectations don't really match what this game offers. It is mostly a mundane grind game. Mundane because it's aimed at more casual gameplay and hopes that people will want to skip the grind and buy gems. And for those with a lot of time, it's grinding for what you want. You have some legendaries? I couldn't do that to my brain. I actually like the new bow that's coming (first time I liked a legendary anyways) but I know I'm not going to do all that's required for it. That would make my brain freak out and die from the mundane repetition.

[Eddy Law.2874]

@"cletiscake.9173" said:I guess the point i'm trying to make is that it feels like the game hasn't really added anything "new" in terms of end-game PvE content. Raids are very exclusive, and i don't have the time to commit to that kind of community, and that can probably be said about 90% of the playerbase. So if the majority can't or won't raid, then we have fractals or open world maps. That's it. Now i'm not saying we should have more challenging content, nor does it need to be instanced content. Fractals are good instanced content and is challenging for the casual player. We just need different kinds of content. Something to connect the world together. To encourage the dynamic grouping of people to go out and do things and get rewards. Open world bosses and Metas are a great example of this. But please, we need unique rewards for this type of stuff. Like small chances of dropping Ascended gear? Mounts? Toys? literally anything.

HoT maps were actually much better than PoF maps when you think about progression and doing something for more rewards. The open-world "raid" style Metas in HoT maps encouraged people to group up and play together for pretty decent rewards. And not only that, but the Masteries in those maps made you more well equipped to deal with those maps and their design. It felt like leveling up, even though there weren't actually any levels. All of that tied together made it worthwhile to go back and spend time in those maps after you've moved on from them from a "story line" perspective. In PoF, you play the story, unlock a new map, but then what? There's really no reason to stay in that map any longer. And there's no reason to get a whole bunch of players in that one map either. LS3 was great because it introduced Aurora, but at the same time, it felt like an afterthought. Aurora was introduced way further down the line. Why don't we have something similar for LS4, but with a reason to work on these new maps now, and not in between expansions?

I want to like WvW, but I feel like it doesn't really serve a purpose. I feel like i'm a hamster on a wheel when I WvW. "Cap a base, rinse and repeat". What's the point of capping bases? Or even losing bases? It feels like there's absolutely zero stakes to WvW. You don't really get rewarded for taking control of a map, and you dont really get penalized for losing control. It's a zero stakes, zero sum game. So it seems like the only reason to play WvW is to flex on the opposing team, and roam around and kill people? There aren't any real rewards, except some extremely time gated ascended/legendary armour. Some people may enjoy this type of game mode, but i'm not one of them, and i'm okay with that.

And speaking in terms of PvP, why has there been only one game mode and practically zero new maps for the past 6 years? Isn't it about time we get more ways to enjoy PvP content? 10 or 15 man battlegrounds? 40 man battlegrounds? These kinds of game modes encourage the community to participate in PvP because it's more approachable and accessible than the super-serious 5 man arenas we have now. If you're bad at PvP, you're gunna get wrecked in arenas. But if you're bad at PvP, you can still join in on the fun of a larger scale fight because there's more room for error, as there's more room for error on the opposing team as well.

I like this line of thinking.

[zealex.9410]

@maddoctor.2738 said:If you take a look at the list of things we got in 2018 (direct comparison) we got very very little compared to 2017 and that's without counting Path of Fire.We got more episodes in 2017, more Raids, more fractals, more new zones, more new legendary items, more of nearly everything, and again without counting what we got in the expansion, if we count Path of Fire too, the difference between 2017 and 2018 is gigantic.

What I'm trying to say here, since we won't get an expansion after Season 4, is that Season 5 and maybe the end episodes of Season 4 will be way bigger than what we've seen so far. I hope for 2019 to have more than double the content of 2018, in all areas of the game, to match (or surpass) what we got in 2017. So more content is coming.If in 2019 we get the same small amount of content we got in 2018 then I'd be really disappointed.

^

[zealex.9410]

@OrcasWorld.3271 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@zealex.9410 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:I can see what the OP is asking for and you know, I wouldn't mind more ways to play the game. However, I doubt t hat would necessarily solve anything big scale. Someone that's played a game for five years and is bored sounds like every single other MMO I've ever played. I've seen these threads on WoW forums. I've seen these threads on FF XIV forums. Once you do the stuff the game is designed for, of course there's going to be less to do. It's just logical. All MMOs end up like this because development takes time and developing one thing means slacking on something else.

That said, the Living World maps that are coming out now are far more interesting to me than any kind of instanced content or any kind of PvP, so I'm not so sure what adding that stuff will accomplish to the playerbase as a whole. What would happen however is this. There'd be an entirely different game type to screw up balancing, to making it harder to make changes moving into the future.

Guild missions have existed in this game for ages, and I can't remember the last time they were updated. My guild still runs them, but it's just another type of content that was left behind. I'd rather see existing content updated than adding new types.

Diff is in ff14 said content gets added much more often.

But it's focused on content I don't want or care about, dungeons and raids. And you pay $15 a month for that content, but maybe it is. I can't say because I don't play it. I did try. Out of all the popular MMOs, it was my least favorite over all...and yes, I know it's quite popular.

Sorry, Vayne, ol' buddy, but you're wrong: as someone who spends FAR too much time playing FFXIV, I can tell you that each patch release (about every 4 months) has an amazing amount of content. Yes, there are more dungeons and raids. There are also additions and extensions to the main story quest; often new jobs or classes; new areas to explore; new weapons and armor; new dynamic events. I'm consistently impressed with the amount of new content SE cranks out, and it's across the board. The game has a far greater breadth than any other I've seen.I won't claim it's perfect; it's not, by a long way. It's certainly less casual-friendly than GW2. And it does cost $15 a month, though I find I spend less money on FFXIV than I did on GW2, since I don't have to constantly buy stuff to succeed.But the bottom line is that from personal experience I can tell you that FFXIV gets a great deal more content of every sort added on a regular basis than I ever saw in my time on GW2.

And this ^

[Mazreal Blackknight.1564]

Legendary armor is an option in WvW and sPvP not as flashy as the raid armor but its there.

[Vayne.8563]

@OrcasWorld.3271 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@zealex.9410 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:I can see what the OP is asking for and you know, I wouldn't mind more ways to play the game. However, I doubt t hat would necessarily solve anything big scale. Someone that's played a game for five years and is bored sounds like every single other MMO I've ever played. I've seen these threads on WoW forums. I've seen these threads on FF XIV forums. Once you do the stuff the game is designed for, of course there's going to be less to do. It's just logical. All MMOs end up like this because development takes time and developing one thing means slacking on something else.

That said, the Living World maps that are coming out now are far more interesting to me than any kind of instanced content or any kind of PvP, so I'm not so sure what adding that stuff will accomplish to the playerbase as a whole. What would happen however is this. There'd be an entirely different game type to screw up balancing, to making it harder to make changes moving into the future.

Guild missions have existed in this game for ages, and I can't remember the last time they were updated. My guild still runs them, but it's just another type of content that was left behind. I'd rather see existing content updated than adding new types.

Diff is in ff14 said content gets added much more often.

But it's focused on content I don't want or care about, dungeons and raids. And you pay $15 a month for that content, but maybe it is. I can't say because I don't play it. I did try. Out of all the popular MMOs, it was my least favorite over all...and yes, I know it's quite popular.

Sorry, Vayne, ol' buddy, but you're wrong: as someone who spends FAR too much time playing FFXIV, I can tell you that each patch release (about every 4 months) has an amazing amount of content. Yes, there are more dungeons and raids. There are also additions and extensions to the main story quest; often new jobs or classes; new areas to explore; new weapons and armor; new dynamic events. I'm consistently impressed with the amount of new content SE cranks out, and it's across the board. The game has a far greater breadth than any other I've seen.I won't claim it's perfect; it's not, by a long way. It's certainly less casual-friendly than GW2. And it does cost $15 a month, though I find I spend less money on FFXIV than I did on GW2, since I don't have to constantly buy stuff to succeed.But the bottom line is that from personal experience I can tell you that FFXIV gets a great deal more content of every sort added on a regular basis than I ever saw in my time on GW2.

I couldn't get interested enough to level with the old quest hub system period. Yes, I know it has fates, but there weren't enough of them and they weren't interesting enough for me to care. I didn't enjoy the world. I didn't enjoy the lore. I honestly felt like I was playing at 15 year old game. I've done the quest hub thing to death. I will never do it again.

[googel.3278]

expansive content in the future = more kitten races across every map, and showing off the pixel skins!

[cletiscake.9173]

@Eddy Law.2874 said:

@"cletiscake.9173" said:I guess the point i'm trying to make is that it feels like the game hasn't really added anything "new" in terms of end-game PvE content. Raids are very exclusive, and i don't have the time to commit to that kind of community, and that can probably be said about 90% of the playerbase. So if the majority can't or won't raid, then we have fractals or open world maps. That's it. Now i'm not saying we should have more challenging content, nor does it need to be instanced content. Fractals are good instanced content and is challenging for the casual player. We just need different kinds of content. Something to connect the world together. To encourage the dynamic grouping of people to go out and do things and get rewards. Open world bosses and Metas are a great example of this. But please, we need unique rewards for this type of stuff. Like small chances of dropping Ascended gear? Mounts? Toys? literally anything.

HoT maps were actually much better than PoF maps when you think about progression and doing something for more rewards. The open-world "raid" style Metas in HoT maps encouraged people to group up and play together for pretty decent rewards. And not only that, but the Masteries in those maps made you more well equipped to deal with those maps and their design. It felt like leveling up, even though there weren't actually any levels. All of that tied together made it worthwhile to go back and spend time in those maps after you've moved on from them from a "story line" perspective. In PoF, you play the story, unlock a new map, but then what? There's really no reason to stay in that map any longer. And there's no reason to get a whole bunch of players in that one map either. LS3 was great because it introduced Aurora, but at the same time, it felt like an afterthought. Aurora was introduced way further down the line. Why don't we have something similar for LS4, but with a reason to work on these new maps now, and not in between expansions?

I want to like WvW, but I feel like it doesn't really serve a purpose. I feel like i'm a hamster on a wheel when I WvW. "Cap a base, rinse and repeat". What's the point of capping bases? Or even losing bases? It feels like there's absolutely zero stakes to WvW. You don't really get rewarded for taking control of a map, and you dont really get penalized for losing control. It's a zero stakes, zero sum game. So it seems like the only reason to play WvW is to flex on the opposing team, and roam around and kill people? There aren't any real rewards, except some extremely time gated ascended/legendary armour. Some people may enjoy this type of game mode, but i'm not one of them, and i'm okay with that.

And speaking in terms of PvP, why has there been only one game mode and practically zero new maps for the past 6 years? Isn't it about time we get more ways to enjoy PvP content? 10 or 15 man battlegrounds? 40 man battlegrounds? These kinds of game modes encourage the community to participate in PvP because it's more approachable and accessible than the super-serious 5 man arenas we have now. If you're bad at PvP, you're gunna get wrecked in arenas. But if you're bad at PvP, you can still join in on the fun of a larger scale fight because there's more room for error, as there's more room for error on the opposing team as well.

I like this line of thinking.

Me too. hahaha

[OrcasWorld.3271]

@Vayne.8563 said:

@OrcasWorld.3271 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@zealex.9410 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:I can see what the OP is asking for and you know, I wouldn't mind more ways to play the game. However, I doubt t hat would necessarily solve anything big scale. Someone that's played a game for five years and is bored sounds like every single other MMO I've ever played. I've seen these threads on WoW forums. I've seen these threads on FF XIV forums. Once you do the stuff the game is designed for, of course there's going to be less to do. It's just logical. All MMOs end up like this because development takes time and developing one thing means slacking on something else.

That said, the Living World maps that are coming out now are far more interesting to me than any kind of instanced content or any kind of PvP, so I'm not so sure what adding that stuff will accomplish to the playerbase as a whole. What would happen however is this. There'd be an entirely different game type to screw up balancing, to making it harder to make changes moving into the future.

Guild missions have existed in this game for ages, and I can't remember the last time they were updated. My guild still runs them, but it's just another type of content that was left behind. I'd rather see existing content updated than adding new types.

Diff is in ff14 said content gets added much more often.

But it's focused on content I don't want or care about, dungeons and raids. And you pay $15 a month for that content, but maybe it is. I can't say because I don't play it. I did try. Out of all the popular MMOs, it was my least favorite over all...and yes, I know it's quite popular.

Sorry, Vayne, ol' buddy, but you're wrong: as someone who spends FAR too much time playing FFXIV, I can tell you that each patch release (about every 4 months) has an amazing amount of content. Yes, there are more dungeons and raids. There are also additions and extensions to the main story quest; often new jobs or classes; new areas to explore; new weapons and armor; new dynamic events. I'm consistently impressed with the amount of new content SE cranks out, and it's across the board. The game has a far greater breadth than any other I've seen.I won't claim it's perfect; it's not, by a long way. It's certainly less casual-friendly than GW2. And it does cost $15 a month, though I find I spend less money on FFXIV than I did on GW2, since I don't have to constantly buy stuff to succeed.But the bottom line is that from personal experience I can tell you that FFXIV gets a great deal more content of every sort added on a regular basis than I ever saw in my time on GW2.

I couldn't get interested enough to level with the old quest hub system period. Yes, I know it has fates, but there weren't enough of them and they weren't interesting enough for me to care. I didn't enjoy the world. I didn't enjoy the lore. I honestly felt like I was playing at 15 year old game. I've done the quest hub thing to death. I will never do it again.

And I don't claim that it's the game for everybody. I'm just saying that when it comes to adding content with each patch release, SE puts out far more content across a wider range of game-play with each patch release of FFXIV than ANet does with GW2, based on my couple of years' experience with each.If you don't like the basic structure of FFXIV, or WoW, or ESO, or whatever, then no amount of content is likely to change that. But zealex.9410's comment about FFXIV getting more content more frequently is correct, in my observation.

[Vayne.8563]

@OrcasWorld.3271 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@OrcasWorld.3271 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@zealex.9410 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:I can see what the OP is asking for and you know, I wouldn't mind more ways to play the game. However, I doubt t hat would necessarily solve anything big scale. Someone that's played a game for five years and is bored sounds like every single other MMO I've ever played. I've seen these threads on WoW forums. I've seen these threads on FF XIV forums. Once you do the stuff the game is designed for, of course there's going to be less to do. It's just logical. All MMOs end up like this because development takes time and developing one thing means slacking on something else.

That said, the Living World maps that are coming out now are far more interesting to me than any kind of instanced content or any kind of PvP, so I'm not so sure what adding that stuff will accomplish to the playerbase as a whole. What would happen however is this. There'd be an entirely different game type to screw up balancing, to making it harder to make changes moving into the future.

Guild missions have existed in this game for ages, and I can't remember the last time they were updated. My guild still runs them, but it's just another type of content that was left behind. I'd rather see existing content updated than adding new types.

Diff is in ff14 said content gets added much more often.

But it's focused on content I don't want or care about, dungeons and raids. And you pay $15 a month for that content, but maybe it is. I can't say because I don't play it. I did try. Out of all the popular MMOs, it was my least favorite over all...and yes, I know it's quite popular.

Sorry, Vayne, ol' buddy, but you're wrong: as someone who spends FAR too much time playing FFXIV, I can tell you that each patch release (about every 4 months) has an amazing amount of content. Yes, there are more dungeons and raids. There are also additions and extensions to the main story quest; often new jobs or classes; new areas to explore; new weapons and armor; new dynamic events. I'm consistently impressed with the amount of new content SE cranks out, and it's across the board. The game has a far greater breadth than any other I've seen.I won't claim it's perfect; it's not, by a long way. It's certainly less casual-friendly than GW2. And it does cost $15 a month, though I find I spend less money on FFXIV than I did on GW2, since I don't have to constantly buy stuff to succeed.But the bottom line is that from personal experience I can tell you that FFXIV gets a great deal more content of every sort added on a regular basis than I ever saw in my time on GW2.

I couldn't get interested enough to level with the old quest hub system period. Yes, I know it has fates, but there weren't enough of them and they weren't interesting enough for me to care. I didn't enjoy the world. I didn't enjoy the lore. I honestly felt like I was playing at 15 year old game. I've done the quest hub thing to death. I will never do it again.

And I don't claim that it's the game for everybody. I'm just saying that when it comes to adding content with each patch release, SE puts out far more content across a wider range of game-play with each patch release of FFXIV than ANet does with GW2, based on my couple of years' experience with each.If you don't like the basic structure of FFXIV, or WoW, or ESO, or whatever, then no amount of content is likely to change that. But zealex.9410's comment about FFXIV getting more content more frequently is correct, in my observation.

But my comment didn't mention the amount of content. It mentioned the focus of the game. That even if they gave me infinite content,. if it was infinite content I don't enjoy, or if the focus of the game is something I don't enjoy, it's a whole different thing. The type of content I get with this game is greater than the type of content I'd enjoy in a game that continually came out with raids as an example.

Part of the equation is how much content, part of it is what type of content. I'm relatively sure that it takes longer to create a new zone in this game than most games, because you need 3 times the amount of dynamic events than you need static quests. Which means it takes longer to make content for this game based on the way the content was designed in the first place. In theory you could make a standard zone in most MMOs faster than you could design a Guild Wars 2 zone. But the type of gameplay offered by the quest hub system tends to leave me cold. I like the zones with dynamic events, and I don't enjoy the quest hub system.

Comparing those two there's no contest for me. Those games may put out MORE, but they're putting out more instanced content. Are they putting out more zones with dynamic events? Zones without quest hubs? I find that unlikely.

That was my point, and it's all I said.

[Obtena.7952]

@ProverbsofHell.2307 said:

@TheOrlyFactor.8341 said:

@ProverbsofHell.2307 said:I agree OP, and @Xstein.2187 had some good suggestions too.

Sadly nobody here will agree with us - we are at odds with the casual audience who make up 60% of the game and 95% of this forum.

If it isn't player housing or a new chair idea I wouldn't advise suggesting the idea on here.

Calling people who don't agree with you the "casual audience" is really gonna change the direction of this game for the better and won't backfire spectacularly at all. :+1:

But the people who don't want more substantial content and that are happy with the current "sushi buffet" style of content ARE part of the casual audience. Even if you play daily, that kind of "pick-and-choose" playstyle IS casual. Nothing is wrong with being a casual player, it's just a fact that it puts you at odds (in terms of what we want) with more hardcore players who enjoy things like grinding and content that requires a big time investment.

And some aren't ... I don't think the direction of the game has anything to do with a casual or not-casual player, who ever the hell those people are. It really doesn't make sense to just have two buckets to define players, then put all the players that don't want what you want into the casual bucket. Honestly, if the game doesn't deliver things you like, that's not the game, it's you. GW2 has its market already, established after 6 years. You really think that regardless of how you label it's players, Anet is just going to change a direction to appeal to the fringe people you define as not the majority of the game's players?

I sort of feel for the OP, but it doesn't seem like the game lacks something here. If I think about other games I've played, they pretty much have the same kinds of content across the same types of environments; what seems to me is that there is a proven MMO formula that will appeal to a segment of the market; the fringe players looking for something 'else' should perhaps be looking at less mainstream games or just aren't part of the market GW2 is trying to appeal to.

[Opopanax.1803]

I agree with the op. I'd be more about PvP with a bigger team based game with actual win scenarios.I'd be more about dungeons, raids, and fractals of they interesting weapon drops with unique sigils, etc.

There is so much of this game to love, but the loot/drop system really washes the fun of earning rewards through accomplishment out. The joy of getting a drop is all but removed from this game because it is either RNG or grind it out.

[Magnus Godrik.5841]

This is a problem with all MMOs. But it not really a problem from the developers part. The problem is the player. The player just wants specific content that they like and feel the devs are obligated to serve his/her own needs, not caring about anyone elses style of play. It takes far longer to make something then it is to play thru it. These outrageous demands form players are ridiculous and very much selfish. You know there are 3 modes of play and to say there is absolutely nothing to do is not true or fair to say. And if it is then perhaps GW2 is not for you. But be warned even the heavy hitters such as WOW and FF14 have the same EXACT "problem".

[zealex.9410]

@Opopanax.1803 said:I agree with the op. I'd be more about PvP with a bigger team based game with actual win scenarios.I'd be more about dungeons, raids, and fractals of they interesting weapon drops with unique sigils, etc.

There is so much of this game to love, but the loot/drop system really washes the fun of earning rewards through accomplishment out. The joy of getting a drop is all but removed from this game because it is either RNG or grind it out.

Runes that work like tiersets in other mmos would be neat imho. they are a reason to play the raids, alter your gameplay in cool ways and its not a new armor with statistical upgrades to whwre it would be a gear threadmill.

[kharmin.7683]

@Magnus Godrik.5841 said:This is a problem with all MMOs. But it not really a problem from the developers part. The problem is the player. The player just wants specific content that they like and feel the devs are obligated to serve his/her own needs, not caring about anyone elses style of play.Yes, this. This is why I play GW2 and not the other popular MMOs. GW2 has the content and style that suits my ability and time. I don't feel that the devs are obligated to serve my needs; however, I do believe that they should continue down the path(s) that they set upon when the game was first founded and not change mid-stream to fill the needs of other players who can find their preferred content in other MMOs.

[Klipso.8653]

Adding rewards doesn't fix anything long term, you'll go right back to being bored once you have it.

Look how many people clogged up the WvW ques when tickets became a thing, where are they now?

[phys.7689]

@Klipso.8653 said:Adding rewards doesn't fix anything long term, you'll go right back to being bored once you have it.

Look how many people clogged up the WvW ques when tickets became a thing, where are they now?

it got people to play it, it might have got people to enjoy it, if the reward system incentivised interesting gameplay more. WvW is an unsolvable problem, because the people who like it dont want it to be that different, and the people who don't play it need it to be different.

regardless, interesting rewards can motivate people.

[OrcasWorld.3271]

@Vayne.8563 said:

@OrcasWorld.3271 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@OrcasWorld.3271 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@zealex.9410 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:I can see what the OP is asking for and you know, I wouldn't mind more ways to play the game. However, I doubt t hat would necessarily solve anything big scale. Someone that's played a game for five years and is bored sounds like every single other MMO I've ever played. I've seen these threads on WoW forums. I've seen these threads on FF XIV forums. Once you do the stuff the game is designed for, of course there's going to be less to do. It's just logical. All MMOs end up like this because development takes time and developing one thing means slacking on something else.

That said, the Living World maps that are coming out now are far more interesting to me than any kind of instanced content or any kind of PvP, so I'm not so sure what adding that stuff will accomplish to the playerbase as a whole. What would happen however is this. There'd be an entirely different game type to screw up balancing, to making it harder to make changes moving into the future.

Guild missions have existed in this game for ages, and I can't remember the last time they were updated. My guild still runs them, but it's just another type of content that was left behind. I'd rather see existing content updated than adding new types.

Diff is in ff14 said content gets added much more often.

But it's focused on content I don't want or care about, dungeons and raids. And you pay $15 a month for that content, but maybe it is. I can't say because I don't play it. I did try. Out of all the popular MMOs, it was my least favorite over all...and yes, I know it's quite popular.

Sorry, Vayne, ol' buddy, but you're wrong: as someone who spends FAR too much time playing FFXIV, I can tell you that each patch release (about every 4 months) has an amazing amount of content. Yes, there are more dungeons and raids. There are also additions and extensions to the main story quest; often new jobs or classes; new areas to explore; new weapons and armor; new dynamic events. I'm consistently impressed with the amount of new content SE cranks out, and it's across the board. The game has a far greater breadth than any other I've seen.I won't claim it's perfect; it's not, by a long way. It's certainly less casual-friendly than GW2. And it does cost $15 a month, though I find I spend less money on FFXIV than I did on GW2, since I don't have to constantly buy stuff to succeed.But the bottom line is that from personal experience I can tell you that FFXIV gets a great deal more content of every sort added on a regular basis than I ever saw in my time on GW2.

I couldn't get interested enough to level with the old quest hub system period. Yes, I know it has fates, but there weren't enough of them and they weren't interesting enough for me to care. I didn't enjoy the world. I didn't enjoy the lore. I honestly felt like I was playing at 15 year old game. I've done the quest hub thing to death. I will never do it again.

And I don't claim that it's the game for everybody. I'm just saying that when it comes to adding content with each patch release, SE puts out far more content across a wider range of game-play with each patch release of FFXIV than ANet does with GW2, based on my couple of years' experience with each.If you don't like the basic structure of FFXIV, or WoW, or ESO, or whatever, then no amount of content is likely to change that. But zealex.9410's comment about FFXIV getting more content more frequently is correct, in my observation.

But my comment didn't mention the amount of content. It mentioned the focus of the game. That even if they gave me infinite content,. if it was infinite content I don't enjoy, or if the focus of the game is something I don't enjoy, it's a whole different thing. The type of content I get with this game is greater than the type of content I'd enjoy in a game that continually came out with raids as an example.

Part of the equation is how much content, part of it is what type of content. I'm relatively sure that it takes longer to create a new zone in this game than most games, because you need 3 times the amount of dynamic events than you need static quests. Which means it takes longer to make content for this game based on the way the content was designed in the first place. In theory you could make a standard zone in most MMOs faster than you could design a Guild Wars 2 zone. But the type of gameplay offered by the quest hub system tends to leave me cold. I like the zones with dynamic events, and I don't enjoy the quest hub system.

Comparing those two there's no contest for me. Those games may put out MORE, but they're putting out more instanced content. Are they putting out more zones with dynamic events? Zones without quest hubs? I find that unlikely.

That was my point, and it's all I said.

No, what you said was, "...it's focused on content I don't want or care about, dungeons and raids." That's a direct quote; scroll up to verify. FFXIV is getting a patch update today, just 4 months after the last one. This patch includes additions to the main story quest; a new dungeon; new side quests; a new job class; new weapon upgrades; new mounts; new vendor items; new furnishings for dwellings; and improvements to the UI. It also includes infrastructure to support a new zone with dynamic events that will be out in the next couple of months (the previous patch did include a new zone with dynamic events; the next will be addition to that).As I said, it's far more content than I've seen from ANet in GW2 patches.The bottom line is just what you said in the line I quoted: you don't want or care about this content, because you're not in any way interested in FFXIV. That's fine, it's not for everyone, but don't denigrate it with false statements. It's not just raids and dungeons.

[Deepcuts.9740]

Played Anarchy Online for several years.There was this boss, the END BOSS named The Beast, located in a special PvP area. Special PvP in the sense that in the world there were two factions, Omni and Clans.To get to the boss, you needed a big raid squad of about 100 people. You could kill members of the opposing faction only.The problem was that both OMNI and Clans wanted some very special goodies that dropped only from The Beast, thus for a long time, both sides had to fight each other only to get to this final boss, not taking into account that both sides had to fight scary monsters along the way and in the end, the big bad boss itself.In the end, both sides agreed that each will get a shoot at this boss in turns. One week for one side, then the next week for the other side.All this combined, resulted in a very engaging, fun and social content. Specially since some people from both sides did not agree with this treaty.I never got the most desired item from The Beast in several years of trying, mostly because there was only one piece that dropped, if it dropped. But the idea that one day I could get it kept me interested.If this boss would have given me some sort of currency with which I could have both the desired item, I am sure I would have stopped playing the game sooner. And of course, this would have made the item in question worthless.Oh, forgot to tell you the game had a sub also, which I payed without regrets. Don't get me wrong, I am in favor of pay once, play as long as you want type of MMO.

Another side of Anarchy online that I am missing a lot is the community. The sense of being actually needed and not being just a dps check to beat an enrage timer.You needed your guild and friends for mostly anything you wanted to do. Of course, you could still roam solo and do stuff, but for the important parts, you needed all the help you could get. And I believe that made the community very tight and pleasant.For example, only to equip a better armor or weapon, you needed at least 3 different classes to help you with their specific buffs, or very rare items that could increase various stats of your character. For that, you had to know which guild member is what class, what class can do what exactly, get in touch with them and somehow manage to get 2-3 more at the same time and location to help you. Of course, the roles were reversed also, meaning you had to help your guild mates and friends all the time. And by help I don't mean get there, press 1 and win.

I am rambling too much, but I miss the days when each member of a guild was actually needed for their specific role.Or maybe I am just too old. Or both :)

[Vayne.8563]

@OrcasWorld.3271 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@OrcasWorld.3271 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@OrcasWorld.3271 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@zealex.9410 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:I can see what the OP is asking for and you know, I wouldn't mind more ways to play the game. However, I doubt t hat would necessarily solve anything big scale. Someone that's played a game for five years and is bored sounds like every single other MMO I've ever played. I've seen these threads on WoW forums. I've seen these threads on FF XIV forums. Once you do the stuff the game is designed for, of course there's going to be less to do. It's just logical. All MMOs end up like this because development takes time and developing one thing means slacking on something else.

That said, the Living World maps that are coming out now are far more interesting to me than any kind of instanced content or any kind of PvP, so I'm not so sure what adding that stuff will accomplish to the playerbase as a whole. What would happen however is this. There'd be an entirely different game type to screw up balancing, to making it harder to make changes moving into the future.

Guild missions have existed in this game for ages, and I can't remember the last time they were updated. My guild still runs them, but it's just another type of content that was left behind. I'd rather see existing content updated than adding new types.

Diff is in ff14 said content gets added much more often.

But it's focused on content I don't want or care about, dungeons and raids. And you pay $15 a month for that content, but maybe it is. I can't say because I don't play it. I did try. Out of all the popular MMOs, it was my least favorite over all...and yes, I know it's quite popular.

Sorry, Vayne, ol' buddy, but you're wrong: as someone who spends FAR too much time playing FFXIV, I can tell you that each patch release (about every 4 months) has an amazing amount of content. Yes, there are more dungeons and raids. There are also additions and extensions to the main story quest; often new jobs or classes; new areas to explore; new weapons and armor; new dynamic events. I'm consistently impressed with the amount of new content SE cranks out, and it's across the board. The game has a far greater breadth than any other I've seen.I won't claim it's perfect; it's not, by a long way. It's certainly less casual-friendly than GW2. And it does cost $15 a month, though I find I spend less money on FFXIV than I did on GW2, since I don't have to constantly buy stuff to succeed.But the bottom line is that from personal experience I can tell you that FFXIV gets a great deal more content of every sort added on a regular basis than I ever saw in my time on GW2.

I couldn't get interested enough to level with the old quest hub system period. Yes, I know it has fates, but there weren't enough of them and they weren't interesting enough for me to care. I didn't enjoy the world. I didn't enjoy the lore. I honestly felt like I was playing at 15 year old game. I've done the quest hub thing to death. I will never do it again.

And I don't claim that it's the game for everybody. I'm just saying that when it comes to adding content with each patch release, SE puts out far more content across a wider range of game-play with each patch release of FFXIV than ANet does with GW2, based on my couple of years' experience with each.If you don't like the basic structure of FFXIV, or WoW, or ESO, or whatever, then no amount of content is likely to change that. But zealex.9410's comment about FFXIV getting more content more frequently is correct, in my observation.

But my comment didn't mention the amount of content. It mentioned the focus of the game. That even if they gave me infinite content,. if it was infinite content I don't enjoy, or if the focus of the game is something I don't enjoy, it's a whole different thing. The type of content I get with this game is greater than the type of content I'd enjoy in a game that continually came out with raids as an example.

Part of the equation is how much content, part of it is what type of content. I'm relatively sure that it takes longer to create a new zone in this game than most games, because you need 3 times the amount of dynamic events than you need static quests. Which means it takes longer to make content for this game based on the way the content was designed in the first place. In theory you could make a standard zone in most MMOs faster than you could design a Guild Wars 2 zone. But the type of gameplay offered by the quest hub system tends to leave me cold. I like the zones with dynamic events, and I don't enjoy the quest hub system.

Comparing those two there's no contest for me. Those games may put out MORE, but they're putting out more instanced content. Are they putting out more zones with dynamic events? Zones without quest hubs? I find that unlikely.

That was my point, and it's all I said.

No, what you said was, "...it's focused on content I don't want or care about, dungeons and raids." That's a direct quote; scroll up to verify. FFXIV is getting a patch update today, just 4 months after the last one. This patch includes additions to the main story quest; a new dungeon; new side quests; a new job class; new weapon upgrades; new mounts; new vendor items; new furnishings for dwellings; and improvements to the UI. It also includes infrastructure to support a new zone with dynamic events that will be out in the next couple of months (the previous patch did include a new zone with dynamic events; the next will be addition to that).As I said, it's far more content than I've seen from ANet in GW2 patches.The bottom line is just what you said in the line I quoted: you don't want or care about this content, because you're not in any way interested in FFXIV. That's fine, it's not for everyone, but don't denigrate it with false statements. It's not just raids and dungeons.

Okay, I'll put it another way, in case it wasn't clear enough. The entire game level system made me want to tear my eyes out. I was never going to get to the end of the story because I couldn't play the game because I couldn't level through the game because of the quest hub system. But the game is clearly focused on raids and dungeons anyway, and this is based on people who play it. The fact that they throw a bone to other players who aren't into raids and dungeons, it's fairly clear to me from content releases what the game is actually focused on. It's an old style quest hub system that made me feel like I was playing an old and dated game almost immediately. Let's not forget the lousy global cool down. There is enough about that game that turned me off in addition to the lousy quest hub system and the updates are focused on dungeons and raids.

I've played a lot of MMOs. Not one, not two, not a dozen. I've played a lot of MMOs and watched how they played out as you leveled. I get that the focus of the games are and I know I'm never going to be happy with or play a game that throws a bone to the story crowd while being focused on raids and dungeons. It's not going to happen.

Yes, there may be something else in updates besides raids and dungeons, but I said "focused on content I don't care about, raids and dungeons". My exact words. Focused doesn't mean all it contains. Focused means exactly what I said it means. That's the focus of the game. It's what the game propels you to. It doesn't mean there's nothing else in the game, however. Just what it's focused on.

Now you could disagree. There are people who believe Guild Wars 2 is focused on PvP for example, and they've said so aloud on these very forums. But it's not my belief. And my belief is that FFXIV is focused on raids and dungeons. Instanced content. Which frankly doesn't do it for me. When you combine that with the quest hub system, which I also brought up, I'm happy to stand behind what I said.