Scrapper is an immortal

[UNOwen.7132]

@Odik.4587 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Odik.4587 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:Power Mes actually is good vs thief. Like, unbelievably good.

Dangerously inaccurate.

Even Condi Mes doesn't struggle vs thief

Closer to the truth. Condi Mirages (at least as of the patch before the most recent) yes, Condi Core, -maybe-. But, depending on the thief spec they can eat condi mesmers too. The problem is it takes too much time to consider unless you NEED the point the mesmer is on. You don't realistically fight a class that can just -leave- on thief unless you're absolutely sure you're getting that kill or the objective.

Nah, Power Mirage eats thieves for breakfast. Its really hard to lose that 1v1 as the Mirage. Condi Mirage has trouble because of resistance, but even then its usually a lopsided matchup. Assuming you play tiered Mesmer builds, of course.

L O LThe delusions are too strong in this one . I'm having a heart attack here ! Someone help!

Ah, yes, the classic "I have no argument, and know he is right, but I cant admit that, so I just go for ad hominems". Nevermind that even Power Mirage players (few though they may be) will tell you that thief is an easy matchup. Not that its very surprising, when you do more damage and survive better than a thief, its hard to lose the matchup. Especially when one plays a build where cleave would be the central weakness. Something thieves are rather ineffective at. Perhaps you had heard that Condi Mirage was countered by thieves (which was true, before they swapped over to the current chaos Staff builds), and thought that all mirages are countered by thieves?

Sounds like a terrible thief trying to make look power mirage (even worse with 0.75s dodge) almighy while poor thief is weak and defenseless .Another crybaby theif with victim syndrome :joy:So far as I know Azure is thief main and he alrdy said you are absurdly wrong .Each time you lose to pmirage,consider to uninstall lad

The response to being called out on your ad hominem in the face of no argument isnt to double down on your lie. Seriously. Power Mirage isnt almighty, noone ever claimed that. But it beats thief easily. I should know. I play Power Mirage. Oh no, whats this? Is your argument falling apart because you misunderstood who the other player was? Is even your argument of "this guy is a thief main, so he must know about the matchup" suddenly useless? Oh what a shame, isnt it? Perhaps now is the time to admit you are wrong.

[storm.3120]

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Odik.4587 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Odik.4587 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:Power Mes actually is good vs thief. Like, unbelievably good.

Dangerously inaccurate.

Even Condi Mes doesn't struggle vs thief

Closer to the truth. Condi Mirages (at least as of the patch before the most recent) yes, Condi Core, -maybe-. But, depending on the thief spec they can eat condi mesmers too. The problem is it takes too much time to consider unless you NEED the point the mesmer is on. You don't realistically fight a class that can just -leave- on thief unless you're absolutely sure you're getting that kill or the objective.

Nah, Power Mirage eats thieves for breakfast. Its really hard to lose that 1v1 as the Mirage. Condi Mirage has trouble because of resistance, but even then its usually a lopsided matchup. Assuming you play tiered Mesmer builds, of course.

L O LThe delusions are too strong in this one . I'm having a heart attack here ! Someone help!

Ah, yes, the classic "I have no argument, and know he is right, but I cant admit that, so I just go for ad hominems". Nevermind that even Power Mirage players (few though they may be) will tell you that thief is an easy matchup. Not that its very surprising, when you do more damage and survive better than a thief, its hard to lose the matchup. Especially when one plays a build where cleave would be the central weakness. Something thieves are rather ineffective at. Perhaps you had heard that Condi Mirage was countered by thieves (which was true, before they swapped over to the current chaos Staff builds), and thought that all mirages are countered by thieves?

Sounds like a terrible thief trying to make look power mirage (even worse with 0.75s dodge) almighy while poor thief is weak and defenseless .Another crybaby theif with victim syndrome :joy:So far as I know Azure is thief main and he alrdy said you are absurdly wrong .Each time you lose to pmirage,consider to uninstall lad

The response to being called out on your ad hominem in the face of no argument isnt to double down on your lie. Seriously. Power Mirage isnt almighty, noone ever claimed that. But it beats thief easily. I should know. I

play

Power Mirage. Oh no, whats this? Is your argument falling apart because you misunderstood who the other player was? Is even your argument of "this guy is a thief main, so he must know about the matchup" suddenly useless? Oh what a shame, isnt it? Perhaps now is the time to admit you are wrong.

Lie? Thats what you do all the time here .Thief countered mesmers since forever ,not my problem you kill npc in the mists and think you are too good at power mirage and thief ez MU ekdseeeeeeeeeeeI have zero experience on thief but i'm more than sure I would win if not every time then 80-90%I'm wrong because some forum pleb calling me liar... Oh well ...

[UNOwen.7132]

@Odik.4587 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Odik.4587 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Odik.4587 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:Power Mes actually is good vs thief. Like, unbelievably good.

Dangerously inaccurate.

Even Condi Mes doesn't struggle vs thief

Closer to the truth. Condi Mirages (at least as of the patch before the most recent) yes, Condi Core, -maybe-. But, depending on the thief spec they can eat condi mesmers too. The problem is it takes too much time to consider unless you NEED the point the mesmer is on. You don't realistically fight a class that can just -leave- on thief unless you're absolutely sure you're getting that kill or the objective.

Nah, Power Mirage eats thieves for breakfast. Its really hard to lose that 1v1 as the Mirage. Condi Mirage has trouble because of resistance, but even then its usually a lopsided matchup. Assuming you play tiered Mesmer builds, of course.

L O LThe delusions are too strong in this one . I'm having a heart attack here ! Someone help!

Ah, yes, the classic "I have no argument, and know he is right, but I cant admit that, so I just go for ad hominems". Nevermind that even Power Mirage players (few though they may be) will tell you that thief is an easy matchup. Not that its very surprising, when you do more damage and survive better than a thief, its hard to lose the matchup. Especially when one plays a build where cleave would be the central weakness. Something thieves are rather ineffective at. Perhaps you had heard that Condi Mirage was countered by thieves (which was true, before they swapped over to the current chaos Staff builds), and thought that all mirages are countered by thieves?

Sounds like a terrible thief trying to make look power mirage (even worse with 0.75s dodge) almighy while poor thief is weak and defenseless .Another crybaby theif with victim syndrome :joy:So far as I know Azure is thief main and he alrdy said you are absurdly wrong .Each time you lose to pmirage,consider to uninstall lad

The response to being called out on your ad hominem in the face of no argument isnt to double down on your lie. Seriously. Power Mirage isnt almighty, noone ever claimed that. But it beats thief easily. I should know. I

play

Power Mirage. Oh no, whats this? Is your argument falling apart because you misunderstood who the other player was? Is even your argument of "this guy is a thief main, so he must know about the matchup" suddenly useless? Oh what a shame, isnt it? Perhaps now is the time to admit you are wrong.

Lie? Thats what you do all the time here .Thief countered mesmers since forever ,not my problem you kill npc in the mists and think you are too good at power mirage and thief ez MU ekdseeeeeeeeeeeI have zero experience on thief but i'm more than sure I would win if not every time then 80-90%I'm wrong because some forum pleb calling me liar... Oh well ...

No, everything Ive said was quite true. But hey, its clear that you dont care. Even after being called out twice, you triple down. Instead of admitting that you are wrong, you just keep spouting your nonsense, even accidentally admitting that you have no experience on thief and, as a result, admitted that you straight up have no clue and are just talking out your ass. And youre wrong because you make uninformed statements that end up being so blatantly wrong its hilarious.

But hey, if even someone who has played that matchup countless times and is very well experienced with it telling you, who has never played it and hasnt got the faintest clue, isnt enough to convince you, then youre a lost cause.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

@"Odik.4587" said:Thief countered mesmers since forever ,not my problem you kill npc in the mists and think you are too good at power mirage and thief ez MU ekdseeeeeeeeeee

Outside of Chronobunker, they were draws, leaning based on whoever got the drop. Condi mesmers hard countered any thief spec that didnt lean into condition removal as a priority, and probably still do. I don't have enough data on specifically power MIRAGE vs my particular flavor of thief to know about how that goes outside of "too long to pursue", but that being said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:But it beats thief easily. I should know. I play Power Mirage.

I'm still skeptical and require data, duel me when you get a chance~

[Megametzler.5729]

@Azure The Heartless.3261 said:(...)

@UNOwen.7132 said:But it beats thief easily. I should know. I

play

Power Mirage.

I'm still skeptical and require data, duel me when you get a chance~

Alternatively - and I am very sorry to ask for that - tell us in which rating range? Since CS got nerfed, I really struggle. And with thief, I never had issues.

[UNOwen.7132]

@Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

@"Odik.4587" said:Thief countered mesmers since forever ,not my problem you kill npc in the mists and think you are too good at power mirage and thief ez MU ekdseeeeeeeeeee

Outside of Chronobunker, they were draws, leaning based on whoever got the drop. Condi mesmers hard countered any thief spec that didnt lean into condition removal as a priority, and probably still do. I don't have enough data on specifically power MIRAGE vs my particular flavor of thief to know about how that goes outside of "too long to pursue", but that being said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:But it beats thief easily. I should know. I

play

Power Mirage.

I'm still skeptical and require data, duel me when you get a chance~

Judging by context, you appear to be NA. Im from EU, so that wont be possible.

[storm.3120]

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Odik.4587 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Odik.4587 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Odik.4587 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Odik.4587 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:Power Mes actually is good vs thief. Like, unbelievably good.

Dangerously inaccurate.

Even Condi Mes doesn't struggle vs thief

Closer to the truth. Condi Mirages (at least as of the patch before the most recent) yes, Condi Core, -maybe-. But, depending on the thief spec they can eat condi mesmers too. The problem is it takes too much time to consider unless you NEED the point the mesmer is on. You don't realistically fight a class that can just -leave- on thief unless you're absolutely sure you're getting that kill or the objective.

Nah, Power Mirage eats thieves for breakfast. Its really hard to lose that 1v1 as the Mirage. Condi Mirage has trouble because of resistance, but even then its usually a lopsided matchup. Assuming you play tiered Mesmer builds, of course.

L O LThe delusions are too strong in this one . I'm having a heart attack here ! Someone help!

Ah, yes, the classic "I have no argument, and know he is right, but I cant admit that, so I just go for ad hominems". Nevermind that even Power Mirage players (few though they may be) will tell you that thief is an easy matchup. Not that its very surprising, when you do more damage and survive better than a thief, its hard to lose the matchup. Especially when one plays a build where cleave would be the central weakness. Something thieves are rather ineffective at. Perhaps you had heard that Condi Mirage was countered by thieves (which was true, before they swapped over to the current chaos Staff builds), and thought that all mirages are countered by thieves?

Sounds like a terrible thief trying to make look power mirage (even worse with 0.75s dodge) almighy while poor thief is weak and defenseless .Another crybaby theif with victim syndrome :joy:So far as I know Azure is thief main and he alrdy said you are absurdly wrong .Each time you lose to pmirage,consider to uninstall lad

The response to being called out on your ad hominem in the face of no argument isnt to double down on your lie. Seriously. Power Mirage isnt almighty, noone ever claimed that. But it beats thief easily. I should know. I

play

Power Mirage. Oh no, whats this? Is your argument falling apart because you misunderstood who the other player was? Is even your argument of "this guy is a thief main, so he must know about the matchup" suddenly useless? Oh what a shame, isnt it? Perhaps now is the time to admit you are wrong.

Lie? Thats what you do all the time here .Thief countered mesmers since forever ,not my problem you kill npc in the mists and think you are too good at power mirage and thief ez MU ekdseeeeeeeeeeeI have zero experience on thief but i'm more than sure I would win if not every time then 80-90%I'm wrong because some forum pleb calling me liar... Oh well ...

No, everything Ive said was quite true. But hey, its clear that you dont care. Even after being called out twice, you triple down. Instead of admitting that you are wrong, you just keep spouting your nonsense, even accidentally admitting that you have no experience on thief and, as a result, admitted that you straight up have no clue and are just talking out your kitten. And youre wrong because you make uninformed statements that end up being so blatantly wrong its hilarious.

But hey, if even someone who has played that matchup countless times and is very well experienced with it telling you, who has never played it and hasnt got the faintest clue, isnt enough to convince you, then youre a lost cause.

Learn to read . I said despite of having zero experience I would farm you entire day , not even talking about mediocre/good thieves that will do the same .Uninformed and wrong after 6 years ... this lad gone mental

@Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

@Odik.4587 said:Thief countered mesmers since forever ,not my problem you kill npc in the mists and think you are too good at power mirage and thief ez MU ekdseeeeeeeeeee

Outside of Chronobunker, they were draws, leaning based on whoever got the drop. Condi mesmers hard countered any thief spec that didnt lean into condition removal as a priority, and probably still do. I don't have enough data on specifically power MIRAGE vs my particular flavor of thief to know about how that goes outside of "too long to pursue", but that being said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:But it beats thief easily. I should know. I

play

Power Mirage.

I'm still skeptical and require data, duel me when you get a chance~

As we talk about POWER spec ,its never had a chance against equally good thief . Feel free to make a toast out of him if he is on NA (If he wont chicken out) :joy:

Correct, thats what you said. Uninformed drivel as you yourself admitted. You may believe that you would, but you would in actuality lose horribly. Like most thieves do.

Arent done with your nonsense ? You refuse ? I got it right ?

[apharma.3741]

@Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

@Odik.4587 said:As we talk about POWER spec ,its never had a chance against equally good thief . Feel free to make a toast out of him if he is on NA (If he wont chicken out) :joy:

It's not even that serious, I just have never actually had that matchup at a reasonably high level, because condi was always a better option for the mes.

There was a really good vod where Helseth was playing power chrono in WvW against a power DrD (was a duel spot) and the thief completely destroyed him over and over again because ecto. It wasn't even close, the thief camps stealth and with no node and no port spot it was free farm. He switched to condi chrono and obliterated the thief over and over again as if a chimp had suddenly taken over the controls of the thief.

This was back in the day when Helseth was at almost the top of his game. DP power thief vs power mesmer has nearly always been in favour of thief if they land steal and I dare say SD is no different. Now there's been changes on both sides but in general it all comes down to if the mesmer can land a burst on thief, if they can't the thief will win almost always and now mantra of distraction no longer stuns it's harder to lock a thief down.

Condi it's kinda weird, condi mes vs power thief the condi mes always wins. Condi mes vs condi thief the thief always wins....except if the mes runs inspiration or the cleanse mantra where it becomes stalemate.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

Lol typical thief hate bias,u guys go on telling people that say thief is weak as delusional while stating it’s a strong 1v1 spec etc which proves u guys kno jack about the game and other professions other than the few ur biased towards. When u guys spew ur crap about thiefs being so strong in dueling etc and literally speak of the thief class in a way that’s literally the exact of how the class is u guys become so transparent it’s hilarious. Not one of u guys saying thief is a strong 1v1 could do jack kitten with a thief and are only but hurt cuz time and time again uve got out skilled by one on ur probably very carrying specs lmao lincolnbeards in so many threads bashing thieves when he can like a little baby lmao learn to play and learn a bit about the game before posting ur utter biased transparent garbage.some people children!lolPeople in this community need to actual give a shit about their other players who enjoy other classes other than themselves and stop alway trying to get any build that gives them any difficulty nerfed to the ground with zero regards for the players of the class cuz no what thief as an example through a lot of nerfs has made a lot of people leave this game. I’m not even a thief main for crap sakes but I defend them cuz man the biased bs is so transparent lmao and their not the only class that’s gotten nerfs cuz cry babies, wonder how many Elle’s have left or barely play? If the community keeps it up their literally just pushing long time players out and killing their game they soposedly want to keep going in a healthy populated state.almost every third post in the forums these days is whinnying that a spec is op like Whinny children lol

[storm.3120]

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:The wallWhinny children lolThats about you . Respond to me in another thread plxThat ezthief farmer is gone... whatever

[Apokriphos.7042]

@michelada.2947 said:Reaper must be a good answear to scrappers

Reaper performs terribly against most builds in platinum meta, but ESPECIALLY bad vs the new breed of scrapper. Where once necro would counter engineer in some ways, boon corrupt potential isnt quick enough to counter reapply. Even worse, onreaper, it mostly all happens in melee range.

As with most classes vs reaper, too many disengage kite tools and far superior sustain.

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

@"Odik.4587" said:Thief countered mesmers since forever ,not my problem you kill npc in the mists and think you are too good at power mirage and thief ez MU ekdseeeeeeeeeee

Outside of Chronobunker, they were draws, leaning based on whoever got the drop. Condi mesmers hard countered any thief spec that didnt lean into condition removal as a priority, and probably still do. I don't have enough data on specifically power MIRAGE vs my particular flavor of thief to know about how that goes outside of "too long to pursue", but that being said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:But it beats thief easily. I should know. I

play

Power Mirage.

I'm still skeptical and require data, duel me when you get a chance~

Judging by context, you appear to be NA. Im from EU, so that wont be possible.

Good news then, Odik is from EU!

[Solori.6025]

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

@"Odik.4587" said:Thief countered mesmers since forever ,not my problem you kill npc in the mists and think you are too good at power mirage and thief ez MU ekdseeeeeeeeeee

Outside of Chronobunker, they were draws, leaning based on whoever got the drop. Condi mesmers hard countered any thief spec that didnt lean into condition removal as a priority, and probably still do. I don't have enough data on specifically power MIRAGE vs my particular flavor of thief to know about how that goes outside of "too long to pursue", but that being said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:But it beats thief easily. I should know. I

play

Power Mirage.

I'm still skeptical and require data, duel me when you get a chance~

Judging by context, you appear to be NA. Im from EU, so that wont be possible.

Good news then, Odik is from EU!

Has the duel happened yet or?

[Crab Fear.1624]

lots of scrapper threads, something must be happening

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

@Solori.6025 said:

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

@"Odik.4587" said:Thief countered mesmers since forever ,not my problem you kill npc in the mists and think you are too good at power mirage and thief ez MU ekdseeeeeeeeeee

Outside of Chronobunker, they were draws, leaning based on whoever got the drop. Condi mesmers hard countered any thief spec that didnt lean into condition removal as a priority, and probably still do. I don't have enough data on specifically power MIRAGE vs my particular flavor of thief to know about how that goes outside of "too long to pursue", but that being said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:But it beats thief easily. I should know. I

play

Power Mirage.

I'm still skeptical and require data, duel me when you get a chance~

Judging by context, you appear to be NA. Im from EU, so that wont be possible.

Good news then, Odik is from EU!

Has the duel happened yet or?

Not yet and I don't know if it will happen.

[Shao.7236]

@"Rusty.9348" said:I llllove this community. Before the patch they were like "OMG, the power creep is so awful! Ppl die too fast! Poor scrapper is underpowered!" Now they complain "OMG, we dont wanna fight for too long! Ppl don't wanna die when we press 12345! Scrapper is an immortal!" And you want Anet listen to your demands.

The only real issue is how overdoing this is, Gyro's were clunky but had good skills from the start. Now they are buffed and still low on CD.

The game would have been in a great position if it wasn't for those buffs. Mirage was toned down greatly and everything else had it's viability set down. People that would actually have complains would have just been L2P issues. Just for the sake of saying I main Mallyx/Glint and Core FA in Plat2, Condi mesmers were the least of my worry and it was rather a matter of making Mirage Cloak finally even with the game, which now it is.

Anet had to create another behemoth of cheese, which is literally taking 0 effort to play. Old scrapper was always viable if you had a brain, as we know from the traits still being the same, Gyro's needed to be self aoe's rather than a stupid NPC. No buffs, that just tilted the balance so hard.

[Vagrant.7206]

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:Come on, not everything is bad for thieves. Thieves are the undisputed kings of qq, arrogance and delusionalism.

I think those traits are shared with mesmer, along with stealth and teleports.

---

Joking aside, thief isn't in that bad a position. I've played S/D builds and D/P builds plenty -- yes, they are very vulnerable when caught off-guard. But when they're set up to pounce, they're exceedingly dangerous in 1v1's or +1's. They are more dependent on timing than other classes, without a doubt, but they aren't that weak when played evasively.

[Burnfall.9573]

@BadMed.3846 said:Anet needs to be quick with scrapper nerfs. Lots of people leave with such garbage in game

Many has and will continue until Anet take serious action to turn this game around. With the latest patch including staffs layoff; nothing changed. Unlearned lessons continues with 6 years+ to back it up.

-have a good day-

[Abazigal.3679]

@Shao.7236 said:Anet had to create another behemoth of cheese, which is literally taking 0 effort to play. Old scrapper was always viable if you had a brain, as we know from the traits still being the same, Gyro's needed to be self aoe's rather than a stupid NPC. No buffs, that just tilted the balance so hard.

That's where the problem is. They shifted the meta, heavily based on condi mirage, to a bunker one based on scrapper. The real issue is that these builds are really taking 0 effort to play, to the point anyone can play it at a correct level. And this was the same with condi mirage or scourge actually.

I do not mind having cheese builds, but i wish these were a bit harder to play.

[xp eke xp.6724]

Well even sindr can't play his build without doing a mistake each game...

And yes bulky builds allow more mistakes, what a wonder.... If you're a compeditive player you will learn to play around it and always play the strongest builds. You also would never play ranked on a competitive way cause it's far away from being competitive.

Ranked = casual,tournaments = the real pvp

If you don't try to get yourself better, it's your fault you struggle against something and you don't tryhard .

[Dawdler.8521]

@Apokriphos.7042 said:

@michelada.2947 said:Reaper must be a good answear to scrappers

Reaper performs terribly against most builds in platinum meta, but ESPECIALLY bad vs the new breed of scrapper. Where once necro would counter engineer in some ways, boon corrupt potential isnt quick enough to counter reapply. Even worse, onreaper, it mostly all happens in melee range.

As with most classes vs reaper, too many disengage kite tools and far superior sustain.If you replace reaper with scrapper and the scrapper with PoF builds in that first sentence, welcome to the world of... well pretty much any class.

The only thing the scrapper changes have done is make it competetive with the rest. Of course everybody cries.

[apharma.3741]

@Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:Power Mes actually is good vs thief. Like, unbelievably good.

Dangerously inaccurate.

Even Condi Mes doesn't struggle vs thief

Closer to the truth. Condi Mirages (at least as of the patch before the most recent) yes, Condi Core, -maybe-. But, depending on the thief spec they can eat condi mesmers too. The problem is it takes too much time to consider unless you NEED the point the mesmer is on. You don't realistically fight a class that can just -leave- on thief unless you're absolutely sure you're getting that kill or the objective.

I wish more people would understand this concept regarding thief. Thief can actually win a lot of 1v1 if you disregard capture points and time taken.

However because of their extreme mobility (Anyone remember Sind going from clock tower to mansion in the same time it took an ele to mistform through a portal the same distance?) you always have to weigh up the time taken to get the kill here vs the time taken to go to neutralise an enemy ticking node or imbalance another fight that could be ended quicker.

Take a free helpful.