Quests in GW2

[Chingalling.1208]

Could gw2 benefit from "traditional" quests? Quests that take longer than hearts and take you all around the zone or in between neighboring zones keeping you there with a sense of purpose. Either in place of or alongside hearts. Maybe have quest specific rewards instead of the usual little bump of karma and silver. I personally think so, and think it would be a worthwhile resource investment. I find myself craving that type of loop in guild wars even though I was never a wow player or anything like that. Want to know what people think.

[mindcircus.1506]

I find Collections fill this need nicely.

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

They're called collections in GW2, but unfortunately it mostly lacks sub-lv80 collections since they're treated as horizontal progression.

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

That, and dynamic event chains. Not Renown Hearts, though.

[Donutdude.9582]

Nope. I am more than happy to never see traditional quests added to the game. I really enjoy the setup as it is and adding traditional quests would be a waste of time. Also, bear in mind that the removable of traditional, unimpactful quests was one of the core design concepts for Guild Wars 2.

[Chingalling.1208]

@mindcircus.1506 said:I find Collections fill this need nicely.

I'm thinking smaller scale and much more numerous edit, I misread that as coalescence, diagnosed dyslexic, how do I delete lol

[Chingalling.1208]

@Hannelore.8153 said:They're called collections in GW2, but unfortunately it mostly lacks sub-lv80 collections since they're treated as horizontal progression.

Yeah collections sometimes scratch that itch for me but I don't find the ui to be very well suited for quests, especially since often I find myself leaving the game and going to a guide because the tips in the collection are too vague, path of least resistance and all.

[Chingalling.1208]

@Donutdude.9582 said:Nope. I am more than happy to never see traditional quests added to the game. I really enjoy the setup as it is and adding traditional quests would be a waste of time. Also, bear in mind that the removable of traditional, unimpactful quests was one of the core design concepts for Guild Wars 2.

I remember that, and i'm honestly glad to see someone still appreciative of their commitment to that. I just see a need for something more in between fast repeatable hearts and long term self made goals. In retrospect, the personal story is kind of this (among other things), but I just wish there was more keeping players running around the zones with a sense of purpose and progression, and the personal story being instance based obviously doesn't provide that.

[Vayne.8563]

@Chingalling.1208 said:

@Donutdude.9582 said:Nope. I am more than happy to never see traditional quests added to the game. I really enjoy the setup as it is and adding traditional quests would be a waste of time. Also, bear in mind that the removable of traditional, unimpactful quests was one of the core design concepts for Guild Wars 2.

I remember that, and i'm honestly glad to see someone still appreciative of their commitment to that. I just see a need for something more in between fast repeatable hearts and long term self made goals. In retrospect, the personal story is kind of this (among other things), but I just wish there was more keeping players running around the zones with a sense of purpose and progression, and the personal story being instance based obviously doesn't provide that.

The story does provide that for me, if I want all the achievements out of it. In fact, I've done the story and completed every zone in the game on 13 characters so far, and I have finished Season 3 on about 30 characters (both zones and stories).

If you're going for achievements you have to spend a fair whack of time in each zone and later achievements drive you back to those same zones.

Hearts are not the quests in this game, dynamic events are. I really wish people would stop referring to hearts as the quests. They were only added to keep people in areas where dynamic events spawned, because people from other games needed marks on their maps. There are 303 hearts in the open world, but the game launched with over 1500 dynamic events in the same area.

On the topic of collections filling that role, there are easier collections and harder ones. Not all of them require a wiki to complete and because people don't take the time to think about it, because it's easier to run to a website, they miss the actual problem solving involved. Sure there are some that are longer/more difficult, but you can pick and choose which ones you do, or which you look up.

The roller beetle collection was pretty easy to do without using the wiki for example.

[Chingalling.1208]

@Vayne.8563 said:

@Chingalling.1208 said:

@"Donutdude.9582" said:Nope. I am more than happy to never see traditional quests added to the game. I really enjoy the setup as it is and adding traditional quests would be a waste of time. Also, bear in mind that the removable of traditional, unimpactful quests was one of the core design concepts for Guild Wars 2.

I remember that, and i'm honestly glad to see someone still appreciative of their commitment to that. I just see a need for something more in between fast repeatable hearts and long term self made goals. In retrospect, the personal story is kind of this (among other things), but I just wish there was more keeping players running around the zones with a sense of purpose and progression, and the personal story being instance based obviously doesn't provide that.

The story does provide that for me, if I want all the achievements out of it. In fact, I've done the story and completed every zone in the game on 13 characters so far, and I have finished Season 3 on about 30 characters (both zones and stories).

If you're going for achievements you have to spend a fair whack of time in each zone and later achievements drive you back to those same zones.

Hearts are not the quests in this game, dynamic events are. I really wish people would stop referring to hearts as the quests. They were only added to keep people in areas where dynamic events spawned, because people from other games needed marks on their maps. There are 303 hearts in the open world, but the game launched with over 1500 dynamic events in the same area.

On the topic of collections filling that role, there are easier collections and harder ones. Not all of them require a wiki to complete and because people don't take the time to think about it, because it's easier to run to a website, they miss the actual problem solving involved. Sure there are some that are longer/more difficult, but you can pick and choose which ones you do, or which you look up.

The roller beetle collection was pretty easy to do without using the wiki for example.

My point was that with the story being instance based, it can't provide that, you literally aren't on the actual open world map with other players.

I believe hearts were the "replacement" for the traditional quests in that those are the tasks you complete for npcs on each map, but I agree in that the dynamic events resemble quests much more. I personally really like dynamic events and stick around to do them when I see them just for the experience of it. But nothing is driving players to these, their start triggers are a mystery to most players and you don't get anything valuable out of them unless you saught it out specifically in pursuit of an achievement that requires it's completion. Even then, most dynamic events that I see, in core Tyria primarily, are happening and failing with no participants or being done by a single over leveled player.

I would disagree that the beetle collection didn't require, or at least incentivise players to end up on dulfy, I didn't know where any of the timed spawn boss monsters were, and I wasn't going to spend 45 minutes looking for it when I could just look up where it was. It's possible it was easy for you because you seem to spend a ton of time thoroughly completing these areas, which is impressive by the way, that represents a lot of time invested, I'd be curious to hear what drives you to do it over and over.

I would distinguish between collections that are difficult to complete and those that are tedious and who's vague hints prompt players to consult a guide. There seem to be many of the former and few of the latter.

Chukka and Chumpa though, that I just started, I am having fun with and am making a point to not really use a guide for.

[Vayne.8563]

@Chingalling.1208 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@Chingalling.1208 said:

@"Donutdude.9582" said:Nope. I am more than happy to never see traditional quests added to the game. I really enjoy the setup as it is and adding traditional quests would be a waste of time. Also, bear in mind that the removable of traditional, unimpactful quests was one of the core design concepts for Guild Wars 2.

I remember that, and i'm honestly glad to see someone still appreciative of their commitment to that. I just see a need for something more in between fast repeatable hearts and long term self made goals. In retrospect, the personal story is kind of this (among other things), but I just wish there was more keeping players running around the zones with a sense of purpose and progression, and the personal story being instance based obviously doesn't provide that.

The story does provide that for me, if I want all the achievements out of it. In fact, I've done the story and completed every zone in the game on 13 characters so far, and I have finished Season 3 on about 30 characters (both zones and stories).

If you're going for achievements you have to spend a fair whack of time in each zone and later achievements drive you back to those same zones.

Hearts are not the quests in this game, dynamic events are. I really wish people would stop referring to hearts as the quests. They were only added to keep people in areas where dynamic events spawned, because people from other games needed marks on their maps. There are 303 hearts in the open world, but the game launched with over 1500 dynamic events in the same area.

On the topic of collections filling that role, there are easier collections and harder ones. Not all of them require a wiki to complete and because people don't take the time to think about it, because it's easier to run to a website, they miss the actual problem solving involved. Sure there are some that are longer/more difficult, but you can pick and choose which ones you do, or which you look up.

The roller beetle collection was pretty easy to do without using the wiki for example.

My point was that with the story being instance based, it can't provide that, you literally aren't on the actual open world map with other players.

I believe hearts were the "replacement" for the traditional quests in that those are the tasks you complete for npcs on each map, but I agree in that the dynamic events resemble quests much more. I personally really like dynamic events and stick around to do them when I see them just for the experience of it. But nothing is driving players to these, their start triggers are a mystery to most players and you don't get anything valuable out of them unless you saught it out specifically in pursuit of an achievement that requires it's completion. Even then, most dynamic events that I see, in core Tyria primarily, are happening and failing with no participants or being done by a single over leveled player.

I would disagree that the beetle collection didn't require, or at least incentivise players to end up on dulfy, I didn't know where any of the timed spawn boss monsters were, and I wasn't going to spend 45 minutes looking for it when I could just look up where it was. It's possible it was easy for you because you seem to spend a ton of time thoroughly completing these areas, which is impressive by the way, that represents a lot of time invested, I'd be curious to hear what drives you to do it over and over.

I would distinguish between collections that are difficult to complete and those that are tedious and who's vague hints prompt players to consult a guide. There seem to be many of the former and few of the latter.

Chukka and Chumpa though, that I just started, I am having fun with and am making a point to not really use a guide for.

My point is that the story instance can provide quest like material, ,because single player games do. When I quest in most MMOs I quest solo anyway. When I quest in story mode here, I can take people with me and usually do, so I'm not sure what your point is.

[Ashantara.8731]

@"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said:That, and dynamic event chains. Not Renown Hearts, though.

We've already discussed this in an older thread a year or two ago: dynamic event chains are not quests. Quests send you on a journey "across the globe", so to speak, they are not lame "follow NPC X from A to B, kill mobs, defeat boss Y" and the like.

If anything in GW2 comes close to quests, it has been side stories like Caladbolg, hence my signature (requesting frequent quest-like side story content).

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

Funny, an NPC flags me down and asks me to help them with 'x'. Seems like a quest to me.

[Mushuchalaka.9437]

I don't think quest/collections are the problem. As everyone mentioned, there's collections,stories, etc. It's the rewards. It's a matter of reward/difficulty ratio. Anet is really stuck in a rut unfortunately , as they must cater to their main audience(casuals). Whenever they try to add some difficulty there's complaints. It's not easy to please everyone. I don't mind not being able to get everything or having hard to obtain items with prestige. Perhaps it's the minority that complains but there's usually a thread complaining that something is too time consuming/hard every time content is released.

[mercury ranique.2170]

As said by others, Collections are there and do what you want. However, they are somewhat limited in the dialogue and format. I do not see the need to introduce a new element, but the presentation and flow could be improved to make it feel more like an adventure.As an example I'll use the Skyscale collection. there are 5 main collections, with a specific flow in it maintained by locked items and several sub collections. The downside of quests was that it was ridiculious to have a house in the middle of a cornfield with seamingless peacefull fireflies. When you approach the NPC he tells you that the fireflies are attacking his farm (while they are clearly not) and you need to to destroy them. You then do this before his eyes to walk up to him again to tell him that you did destroy them (which he saw).However, with the skyskale, you need to get back to Gorrik and there is a specific flow.I would solve this with hiding the main collections, but only have the smaller ones. Collect something and this collections rewards an item. To prevent going back to Gorrik all the time, make the item double clickable (double click the skyskale medicin to sent it to Gorrik, after which you get a mail from him telling you the next step).

[zealex.9410]

@"Chingalling.1208" said:Could gw2 benefit from "traditional" quests? Quests that take longer than hearts and take you all around the zone or in between neighboring zones keeping you there with a sense of purpose. Either in place of or alongside hearts. Maybe have quest specific rewards instead of the usual little bump of karma and silver. I personally think so, and think it would be a worthwhile resource investment. I find myself craving that type of loop in guild wars even though I was never a wow player or anything like that. Want to know what people think.

They had done a couple of those, they were heavily tied to the collection system and were quite fun.

[mortrialus.3062]

Guild Wars 2 was always lessened by the fact that there wasn't some kind of traditional questing system as far as I'm concerned. In many ways I consider it Guild Wars 2 PvE's original sin. Guild Wars 2 often wanted to be so groundbreaking it would frequently throw the baby out with the bathwater

While there are collections that effectively feel like quests, and dynamic events are good for the general moment to moment wandering about and game play as well as providing daily rewards and things to do, and Renown Hearts are a thing I guess, there is something truly lost by at least not having a handful of thought out well made traditional quests in each zone.

For starters Renown Hearts are universally considered some of the worst content in the game. They were overall very half baked, a bandaid because players needed some direction to guide them to the dynamic events themselves. They're the worst parts of traditional questing, feeling like busy work but providing some of the worst context for why you are doing things, for home, what this says about the world itself. This is especially the case in Core Tyria. You just wander around, you see the heart ping when you find with with a laundry list of various tasks and do them without talking to anyone. Without any interesting content that might add a bit

A big problem with lack of traditional quests is that it leaves the game world feeling considerably more hollow feeling. There's rarely any incentive to talk around and talk to NPC's most of the time. There's never any excitement of talking to an NPC and realizing your about to start a personal journey most of the time. A lot of the flavor, of digging through the far off reaches of the world, just isn't there. And when are "Once per character forever" type of affairs the rewards could have been made a lot more interesting as well.

Now in many ways, some of the better parts of questing are in the game, albeit in the form of collections. While some collections are extremely cool especially Caladbolg, Griffon, Skyscale, Chuka and Chumpawat, I feel these collections would be GREATLY better served and delivered through an actual questing UI and character bound rather than having them buried in the semi-4th wall breaking Achievement panel which often requires you to dig through 4-5 pieces of UI to actually get to the directions you wan to go. And the whole thing feels very artificial, instead of a more interesting Journal feature that allows you to relook over the dialogue you previously received, or an in-character journal like Morrowind.

There's so much more to traditional quests than "Bring my X bear bottoms. Not all bears have bottoms."

Secret World, while often feeling very primitively and poorly put together, had some of the best questing I have ever seen in video games. Period. MMORPG or otherwise.

And to be honest, even basic "Kill X enemies" quests can be satisfying with an increasingly interesting difficulty curve and sense of escalation. Even to this day and my time on a private server I think there is a charming but satisfying simplicity to Vanilla WoW's questing (That would escalate into globe spanning adventures by the end of it) and I think that is why so many people are particularly hyped for it.

In conclusion, I think in many ways the complete and 100% rejection of traditional questing was a huge detriment to Guild Wars 2 that just ending up leaving a lot of the game's PvE feeling hollow. While it is likely too late to actually fix this, a better Guild Wars 2 would have had a number of traditional quests in each zone to augment the Dynamic Events system and the depth of the game world.

[ugrakarma.9416]

@mortrialus.3062 said:Guild Wars 2 was always lessened by the fact that there wasn't some kind of traditional questing system as far as I'm concerned. In many ways I consider it Guild Wars 2 PvE's original sin. Guild Wars 2 often wanted to be so groundbreaking it would frequently throw the baby out with the bathwater

tons of GW2 problemas are tied to poor UI, the architeture of the system is good and had a room to improvment, but the UI area is neglected.

[Chingalling.1208]

@Vayne.8563 said:

@Chingalling.1208 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@Chingalling.1208 said:

@"Donutdude.9582" said:Nope. I am more than happy to never see traditional quests added to the game. I really enjoy the setup as it is and adding traditional quests would be a waste of time. Also, bear in mind that the removable of traditional, unimpactful quests was one of the core design concepts for Guild Wars 2.

I remember that, and i'm honestly glad to see someone still appreciative of their commitment to that. I just see a need for something more in between fast repeatable hearts and long term self made goals. In retrospect, the personal story is kind of this (among other things), but I just wish there was more keeping players running around the zones with a sense of purpose and progression, and the personal story being instance based obviously doesn't provide that.

The story does provide that for me, if I want all the achievements out of it. In fact, I've done the story and completed every zone in the game on 13 characters so far, and I have finished Season 3 on about 30 characters (both zones and stories).

If you're going for achievements you have to spend a fair whack of time in each zone and later achievements drive you back to those same zones.

Hearts are not the quests in this game, dynamic events are. I really wish people would stop referring to hearts as the quests. They were only added to keep people in areas where dynamic events spawned, because people from other games needed marks on their maps. There are 303 hearts in the open world, but the game launched with over 1500 dynamic events in the same area.

On the topic of collections filling that role, there are easier collections and harder ones. Not all of them require a wiki to complete and because people don't take the time to think about it, because it's easier to run to a website, they miss the actual problem solving involved. Sure there are some that are longer/more difficult, but you can pick and choose which ones you do, or which you look up.

The roller beetle collection was pretty easy to do without using the wiki for example.

My point was that with the story being instance based, it can't provide that, you literally aren't on the actual open world map with other players.

I believe hearts were the "replacement" for the traditional quests in that those are the tasks you complete for npcs on each map, but I agree in that the dynamic events resemble quests much more. I personally really like dynamic events and stick around to do them when I see them just for the experience of it. But nothing is driving players to these, their start triggers are a mystery to most players and you don't get anything valuable out of them unless you saught it out specifically in pursuit of an achievement that requires it's completion. Even then, most dynamic events that I see, in core Tyria primarily, are happening and failing with no participants or being done by a single over leveled player.

I would disagree that the beetle collection didn't require, or at least incentivise players to end up on dulfy, I didn't know where any of the timed spawn boss monsters were, and I wasn't going to spend 45 minutes looking for it when I could just look up where it was. It's possible it was easy for you because you seem to spend a ton of time thoroughly completing these areas, which is impressive by the way, that represents a lot of time invested, I'd be curious to hear what drives you to do it over and over.

I would distinguish between collections that are difficult to complete and those that are tedious and who's vague hints prompt players to consult a guide. There seem to be many of the former and few of the latter.

Chukka and Chumpa though, that I just started, I am having fun with and am making a point to not really use a guide for.

My point is that the story instance can provide quest like material, ,because single player games do. When I quest in most MMOs I quest solo anyway. When I quest in story mode here, I can take people with me and usually do, so I'm not sure what your point is.

I said I wish there was something keeping players running around the open world maps, I also mentioned that the personal story was like the quests I wished there were but they were instance based they can't/don't provide the first part. Just taking one or two friends into the story is not what i'm talking about. Mmo's are not single player by design.

[Ototo.3214]

I hate most traditional quests in other MMOs, you just run around and do chores for people. Often going back and forth top the same places just cause. Hearts are already annoying, please don't add more. Collections are enough.

[AliamRationem.5172]

I think it depends which part of GW2 you're talking about. While events > traditional quests, in my opinion, the core game and PoF don't really guide the player much with their event design. Much of it consists of random one-off events that don't make the player feel involved in the larger story of what is happening in the zone, although PoF does a better job of this than core. In my opinion, it's HoT event design that really nailed it. Chain events that tell the story of the particular location and tie it not only into the larger picture of map-wide events, but also relating to the entire story arc. Bonus points for ending each cycle with a large scale boss event! And there are plenty of one-off events and mini-bosses thrown in to keep the action moving between story-related events.

Compared to the tired fetch/kill quest filler WoW introduced us to, I really feel GW2 does a much better job. I will admit that ESO questing is pretty solid as that is a decidedly story-driven game, much moreso than WoW. They also have events like GW2. However, I still prefer the HoT style even to ESO. But fetch/kill quests? Please, no. They just add nothing but boring grind, imo.

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

@Ashantara.8731 said:

@"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said:That, and dynamic event chains. Not Renown Hearts, though.

We've already discussed this in an older thread a year or two ago: dynamic event chains are

not

quests.They are to me.

Quests send you on a journey "across the globe", so to speak,Some do; some do not.

they are not lame "follow NPC X from A to B, kill mobs, defeat boss Y" and the like.In point of fact: there just aren't that many types of quests. They all include elements of "kill 10 things" or "bring me the head of alfredo garcia" or "DHL" etc. They do include following NPCs, killing mobs, defeating bosses, and the like.

If anything in GW2 comes close to quests, it has been

side stories

like Caladbolg, hence my signature (requesting frequent quest-like side story content).Caladbolg ... the quest, in fact, requires killing mobs, killing bosses, and tracking down NPCs.

[Aaralyna.3104]

I used to be obsessed with traditional questlines in other mmo's but I actually like the way GW2 handles the game. Renowned hearts are fine as its not do just this 1 thing but do anything you like from a collection of actions to do to complete it. For the rest there's collections. Personal story sends me throughout all zones. And for the rest its open for what I want to play and do at any given time (I am mostly in open world). Traditional quests are way too repetitive (npc 1: kill 10 boars, npc 2: kill 20 deers)...

[Trise.2865]

@Ashantara.8731 said:

@"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said:That, and dynamic event chains. Not Renown Hearts, though.

We've already discussed this in an older thread a year or two ago: dynamic event chains are

not

quests. Quests send you on a journey "across the globe", so to speak, they are not lame "follow NPC X from A to B, kill mobs, defeat boss Y" and the like.

If anything in GW2 comes close to quests, it has been

side stories

like Caladbolg, hence my signature (requesting frequent quest-like side story content).

Actually, the "closest" GW2 comes to "traditional" questing is the Personal Story. And you hated that, so... are you sure that's what you want?

[Vayne.8563]

@Chingalling.1208 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@Chingalling.1208 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@Chingalling.1208 said:

@"Donutdude.9582" said:Nope. I am more than happy to never see traditional quests added to the game. I really enjoy the setup as it is and adding traditional quests would be a waste of time. Also, bear in mind that the removable of traditional, unimpactful quests was one of the core design concepts for Guild Wars 2.

I remember that, and i'm honestly glad to see someone still appreciative of their commitment to that. I just see a need for something more in between fast repeatable hearts and long term self made goals. In retrospect, the personal story is kind of this (among other things), but I just wish there was more keeping players running around the zones with a sense of purpose and progression, and the personal story being instance based obviously doesn't provide that.

The story does provide that for me, if I want all the achievements out of it. In fact, I've done the story and completed every zone in the game on 13 characters so far, and I have finished Season 3 on about 30 characters (both zones and stories).

If you're going for achievements you have to spend a fair whack of time in each zone and later achievements drive you back to those same zones.

Hearts are not the quests in this game, dynamic events are. I really wish people would stop referring to hearts as the quests. They were only added to keep people in areas where dynamic events spawned, because people from other games needed marks on their maps. There are 303 hearts in the open world, but the game launched with over 1500 dynamic events in the same area.

On the topic of collections filling that role, there are easier collections and harder ones. Not all of them require a wiki to complete and because people don't take the time to think about it, because it's easier to run to a website, they miss the actual problem solving involved. Sure there are some that are longer/more difficult, but you can pick and choose which ones you do, or which you look up.

The roller beetle collection was pretty easy to do without using the wiki for example.

My point was that with the story being instance based, it can't provide that, you literally aren't on the actual open world map with other players.

I believe hearts were the "replacement" for the traditional quests in that those are the tasks you complete for npcs on each map, but I agree in that the dynamic events resemble quests much more. I personally really like dynamic events and stick around to do them when I see them just for the experience of it. But nothing is driving players to these, their start triggers are a mystery to most players and you don't get anything valuable out of them unless you saught it out specifically in pursuit of an achievement that requires it's completion. Even then, most dynamic events that I see, in core Tyria primarily, are happening and failing with no participants or being done by a single over leveled player.

I would disagree that the beetle collection didn't require, or at least incentivise players to end up on dulfy, I didn't know where any of the timed spawn boss monsters were, and I wasn't going to spend 45 minutes looking for it when I could just look up where it was. It's possible it was easy for you because you seem to spend a ton of time thoroughly completing these areas, which is impressive by the way, that represents a lot of time invested, I'd be curious to hear what drives you to do it over and over.

I would distinguish between collections that are difficult to complete and those that are tedious and who's vague hints prompt players to consult a guide. There seem to be many of the former and few of the latter.

Chukka and Chumpa though, that I just started, I am having fun with and am making a point to not really use a guide for.

My point is that the story instance can provide quest like material, ,because single player games do. When I quest in most MMOs I quest solo anyway. When I quest in story mode here, I can take people with me and usually do, so I'm not sure what your point is.

I said I wish there was something keeping players running around the open world maps, I also mentioned that the personal story was like the quests I wished there were but they were instance based they can't/don't provide the first part. Just taking one or two friends into the story is not what i'm talking about. Mmo's are not single player by design.

But when you're doing story, a good part of it is in the open world too. Take the Ember Bay story. I've done that on 30 characters and each charcater I bring through has to do stuff in the open world. I run it with new guildies doing it, and show them the zone. The fact is, I've gotten all my "farming" done for everything I need by zone completing on multiple characters and running the events in those zones, often while I was doing the story. The story in Ember Bay requires you to do every single event area on the map. The story in Siren's Landing requires you to do every heart on the map where events spawn. Naturally while I'm in those zone, I do metas too and I'm not alone. If you think this isn't already happening,you're not paying attention.

This week I took an alt account to get my roller beetle in Kourna. I had to do a number of things in Kourna, including a bounty. I popped a mentor tag, called out some stuff in map chat, and there were people there to do everything. I ended up doing the Kourna meta several times, a bounty, and a few other odds and ends I needed. Just like when I got to kessex hills and pop a tag and call out the spider queen I get help. I'm honestly not sure what you're on about, because I'm playing these zones all the time and I get content done. If you dont' believe me, I'd be happy to show you.