Death Penalty (GW1) or Armor Damage (GW2)

[Blocki.4931]

You should lose all gold you carry on death, leaving behind a bloodstain. Dying again means you lose all your sou- gold.

[Michram.6853]

GW1 system was very unfair. GW2 makes it more player friendly when it comes to die...

[Calvsie.3675]

Sheesh, need to teach people how to make unbiased polls grumbles like the man with a marketing degree he is

Both have their Pros and Cons

[Edelweiss.4261]

I honestly don't feel that either are necessary. Especially the armor damage in GW2. It just makes me take a stop at an anvil every so often.

[crepuscular.9047]

@Ayakaru.6583 said:The armour damage doesn't really occur until you die 6 times. And after that you can repair it for free.So punishment is almost completely absent in gw2

yeah, agree, feels like the devs are too scared to punish players to play terribly and unwilling to learn the game mechanics; GW1's DP system actually makes you to learn about the mob mechanics, team building theory, and actually becoming a better player

 

 

the game needs more punishments so players are forced to learn the mechanics of mobs to stay alive in fights rather than just keep on spamming 1, and just laid dead for people to ress them

the changes i would like to see for open world PvE

• repair bill slowly increase before L50, and starts to massively increase the repair bills for L50+ contents, this will also help drain more liquid gold out of the economy
• your allies have 35 secs to ress you if you are dead, or you will be automatically ported to the nearest wp (this will also help clear those annoying dead bots at malchor's tree farm); the reward tiers in events are based on a participation system, the longer you don't participate, i.e. laid dead, the worse your reward tier will be at the end, which could eventually deteriorate to no reward at all

the only exception would be in dungeon, fractals, raid, and wvw; i feel these game mode can benefit from having armor damage system removed

... and just as a side note, with the above, I think we can also look into remove the outdated WP's payment system

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

tl;dr I see no value in punishing people for dying. The current mechanics are sufficient to remind people it's undesirable (as if they didn't know).Death already punishes the party/player; no reason to top it off with penalties.

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GW2 has a death penalty. It reduces your health when you're rez'd (not when you're up) and if you end up dying too often (e.g. in attempt to "death rush"), your next 0 health moment skips downed and takes you to defeated, instantly. DP in GW2 expires with time.

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DP and gear-destruction is largely a holdover from pencil/paper gaming, when there were good reasons for forcing people to be super-cautious. It continued the tradition through single-player games. And the first co-op and MMOs adopted it. (With so many sorts of exceptions, of course.)

On the whole, I think it's a waste of everyone's time. People who care about gaming don't want their characters to die, regardless of the penalties. Highly-skilled players will use death as another tool in their belt, up to any limits in the game. Simply-skilled players will avoid death almost all the time. And low-skilled players will find it a barrier to learning.

While it's true that a lot of people learn with negative reinforcement, positive reinforcement is generally more effective in the long run.

[Ashantara.8731]

I liked the GW1 death penalty, but then again I like GW1's system better altogether.

[crepuscular.9047]

@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:On the whole, I think it's a waste of everyone's time. People who care about gaming don't want their characters to die, regardless of the penalties. Highly-skilled players will use death as another tool in their belt, up to any limits in the game. Simply-skilled players will avoid death almost all the time. And low-skilled players will find it a barrier to learning.

i remember back in the old days GW1's Survivor title before they changed it to 'reset', you had to delete your toon and restart again; felt so profoundly proud when i got my 1st one during prophecy, i then kept on going doing it for every class and new classes with factions and nightfall

[Westenev.5289]

Gw1's death punishments worked back in 2009, but any modern gamer has far too many creature comforts to consider working around any on-death limitations. Hell, some people think armour breaking after 7 consecutive deaths is too much to deal with.

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

@crepuscular.9047 said:

@"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:On the whole, I think it's a waste of everyone's time. People who care about gaming don't want their characters to die, regardless of the penalties. Highly-skilled players will use death as another tool in their belt, up to any limits in the game. Simply-skilled players will avoid death almost all the time. And low-skilled players will find it a barrier to learning.

i remember back in the old days GW1's Survivor title before they changed it to 'reset', you had to delete your toon and restart again; felt so profoundly proud when i got my 1st one during prophecy, i then kept on going doing it for every class and new classes with factions and nightfall

Survivor was fun, definitely. I re-rolled a few new toons just to repeat, too.

Still, "Survivor" has nothing to do with "DP;" a game can have either or both or neither. Survivor is the closest most MMOs have to "Iron Man."(Technically, GW2 also has "Survivor;" it's just trivial because you can get it by crafting.)

[lare.5129]

if we make/return Death Penalty we can very very hurt players who try/want make old or not popular content with more less player count because no activity. There is no any point do that.

[Game of Bones.8975]

@"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:Still, "Survivor" has nothing to do with "DP;" a game can have either or both or neither. Survivor is the closest most MMOs have to "Iron Man."(Technically, GW2 also has "Survivor;" it's just trivial because you can get it by crafting.)

I got my first "Survivor" by turning in a bunch of Hard Mode Storybooks at the same time. I don't know if it was overlooked, but exp didn't have to come from killing monsters or quests alone.

[Game of Bones.8975]

@"crepuscular.9047" said:i remember back in the old days GW1's Survivor title before they changed it to 'reset', you had to delete your toon and restart again; felt so profoundly proud when i got my 1st one during prophecy, i then kept on going doing it for every class and new classes with factions and nightfall

The closest I came to actually getting "Survivor" by fighting alone was Lvl 18 with my Dervish/Ritualist. I almost had Lvl 19, was soloing (with mercs) MTSC on a Faction Bonus week and one of my mercs pulled aggro on the elementalist boss Arbor Earthcall calling all of his people to pop up. We couldn't regroup.

I can still remember the frustration and wanting to throw my computer through something really solid.

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

@Game of Bones.8975 said:

@"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:Still, "Survivor" has nothing to do with "DP;" a game can have either or both or neither. Survivor is the closest most MMOs have to "Iron Man."(Technically, GW2 also has "Survivor;" it's just trivial because you can get it by crafting.)

I got my first "Survivor" by turning in a bunch of Hard Mode Storybooks at the same time. I don't know if it was overlooked, but exp didn't have to come from killing monsters or quests alone.

That's true. In GW1, there were work arounds that you could use 1x, maybe 2x. Largely, though, you'd have to actual do something risking death to earn it.https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Survivor

[Ayakaru.6583]

@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:tl;dr I see no value in punishing people for dying. The current mechanics are sufficient to remind people it's undesirable (as if they didn't know).Death already punishes the party/player; no reason to top it off with penalties.

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Without punishment, what happens are the world bosses and Balthazar.People will just run in, spam 1 until they die, and run back from the nearest spawn point. Since repairing armour is free you can eventually fight in your underwear.

This completely nullifies any challenge, AND makes even just the death itself no longer a punishment

[Andy.5981]

If you want to talk Death penalties you had to experience the pain of dying in Everquest circa 1999, where if you died you spawned back at your bind point. You then had to run across possibly multiple hostile zones with no armour, no weapons. To add to this your corpse had a decay timer on it, so if you didn't reach it, it disappeared forever taking all your armour and inventory items with it.

Oh and when you died, you lost experience, if you had just gained a level it was likely you dropped back to your old level due to the amount of experience lost.

So all in all both GW1 and GW2 systems are fluffy care bear systems with absolutely nothing to lose or worry about to be honest.

[ProtoGunner.4953]

The harshest mechanic was in most elite areas where you got ported out of the map if everyone died, losing all progress. And it happened not rarely.

[Xanadrine.4352]

I never played gw1, but i have played games with death penalties and it wasnt nice. I much prefer the repair on armor than having a death penalty. I think its nostalgia that makes people wistful for the good ole days of gw1 is why they prefer the death penalty. Rose colored glasses and all that.

[Luthan.5236]

That survivor title from GW1 seems more like a very horrible game design. Some might find it cool to get such a title. Cause it is "hard". But in my opinion it is just horrible grind while being slow and overly cautious. And minor little mistakes could ruin everything - forcing you to start over. (Even disconnects or stuff like that.)

Don't see any difficuilty and/or fun in making the game longer and more annoying for a player. Harder is good - yes. But not longer/annoying. Better to do it in a fun way.

(JPs here are fun. But they even devalued those by allowing mesmers and portals for the easy ones. Then again you can still decide to do them your own way without help.)

There is some stuff where the game tries to avoid multiple people WPing constantly (while always some are at the boss to keep him in combat preventing him from resetting). Soloing already is prevented when bosses health resets when out of combat.

Those legendary bandit executioners ... dome-like thing appears and when I tried to walk back from WP it wasn't possible to re-join the fight. Such things are good ideas. (Still doesn't prevent you from just gathering a zerg to try making it easier.)

[Tommo Chocolate.5870]

I do think the armour damage in GW2 is superfluous, but I like both penalty systems, and I think they both work very well in their respective games. I don't think GW1 death penalty would work well in GW2 or vice versa - they're quite different games, and the penalties serve different purposes (aside from communicating to you that dying is bad).

My favourite RPG death mechanic is in Diablo II (not on hardcore mode), where you have to retrieve your corpse to get your items back - but again, that wouldn't work well in either GW game (and I'm not so keen on losing gold or experience).

@Zuldari.3940 said:I think its nostalgia that makes people wistful for the good ole days of gw1 is why they prefer the death penalty. Rose colored glasses and all that.

I wouldn't make that assumption. I didn't get into GW1 until 2013, after I'd already played GW2 extensively - but in spite of that, there are many things that I think it does better, even though in some sense my nostalgia should be for GW2.