Are we getting lazy?

[Riku.4821]

Welcome to MMO's in 2017. Or even games in 2017. Where they need to handhold casual players so they don't quit. Every player offers the same 100% income (game purchase). So they will cater to the larger audience (casuals). There are exceptions but its kind of obvious games are getting "easy" and a portion of the game player base is also getting lazy.

[Spurnshadow.3678]

I agree. The squeeky wheel in this game are the folks who want to get their achievements, collections, loot as fast as possible. They just want to get to objective, kill, loot, move to the next objective as fast as possible. They are forgetting the journey and only focusing on the destination.

[Rouven.7409]

How does the gate for legendary armour fit in here? Compared to legendary weapons is that "lazier"?

[Ashen.2907]

I dont think that seeking the ability to skip what one doesnt want in order to get to what one does want is laziness.

I dont want the experience of a 22 mile walk to work, with all of tbe exciting side adventures that could accompany a lone walk through a high crime area in order to get to what I do want....my job.

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

When exactly was it when people weren't lazy?

[Omar Aschi Popp.7496]

I now know who is making my ho-ho list this winter.

[IndigoSundown.5419]

Convenience is a major driving force for large segments of the MMO player-base. That's why in-game stores sell so many convenience features. That's why we see so many convenience demands. Developers provide that convenience as a way of keeping players playing, and to make money. I'ts only going to continue, if not become a greater issues as games compete for market share.

[keyokku.5412]

I don't think it's about making things easier. This naturally happened because there is now more end game content and more harder end game content. As we progress we will regularly receive new and harder end game content and entire systems like the masteries and navigational abilities etc that require effort. This is progress.

The older content is obviously less of the goal now and it's natural to have more convenient ways to clear or go over the old content to catch up with the new. This also enables old players to focus on what's upcoming and on new accomplishments.

It used to be pure luck or gold farming to get precursors or legendaries.but now there are systems in place to make it possible goals. Is this not progress? Is it "easier"? There are mounts now and it makes navigating old maps easier but is it easier in POF maps? POF maps are huge and not many wp.

This is progress. Stop looking back. Look forward

[flog.3485]

Gaming in general as of today pretty much feels like this imo: "let me consume the game as fast as possible so that I can move on to consume as fast as possible the next hyped game so that I can move on to the next hyped game to consume as fast as possible so that...."

Hence why you get these wild complaints in this game which I personally don't understand, saying: "chef mastery is too annoying, please nerf, eater of souls is too difficult, please nerf" because strangely enough you kinda need to spend a little time to understand what is going on your screen.

[The Revenant.4970]

If we're being honest here, playing video games is the epitome of lazy. The degree of 'laziness' within the video games themselves is irrelevant. Doesn't matter if you 'walked uphill both ways in freezing snow' to get your video game achievement versus someone who played for 5 minutes and achieved the same. They are still simply video game achievements.

[Taygus.4571]

@Omar Aschi Popp.7496 said:

@Kheldorn.5123 said:I'm lazy, I want my rewards easy to forget about real life difficulties. And this is why I chose this game. I'm not going to tryhard over pixel items, wasting hours of my life farming single boss to get what I want. This is not a tryhard game and I'm happy with it.

For "us old gamers" as you try to present yourself, there are many other titles where your tryhard nature can be satisfied.

And the same applies tonyou, there are many titles on Facebook where your nature can be satisfied.

A facebook MMORPG? Not even close.What a rediculous suggestion.

I would love to know of a more casual MMORPG than guild wars?Im the kind of player who loved Fable. .GW2 is the closest mmo to that. Especially with the action cam.

At the OP, I don't think it's fair to call it laziness. ..more so, people have life commitments. Gaming was something that teenagers and college students did..and They had the time to grind etc...but those teenagers now have families and jobs that take priority over gaming, but they still play games. They don't want to spend it running around just to finally get to what they want to do.

[Theocraft.6053]

This is a game and as such must satisfy us which means different things for different people.

**For each of us there is different ratio of challenge to reward that makes us happy.

About nerfing everything... it is just a shame that people often don't even want to get better. How the heck are they dealing with life? The feeling of achievement after you finished some more difficult boss is worth it! After all GW2 is already soooooo casual. Just hunting some better skin or doing some story or achievs, no racing, chill... and yet people want nerfs for everything they need to repeat... Keep those small cuts without nerfs. Otherwise soon you will experience too easy, boring game.

Me?I love pets (and gliders earlier) because of a true joy of movement and reducing boring time in-between encounters. Riding mounts is fun in itself and more often having to fight, collect something is fun. Running towards something? Definitely not fun.

I like "difficult" soloable content (up to elites, champions are for specific classes rather)!! Or masteries like the one with the chef - loved it!

I don't like difficult group content like Serpent's Ire. It is annoying to try your best but still fail because somebody else didn't care. (I didn't even try raids)

[Omar Aschi Popp.7496]

@Taygus.4571 said:

@Omar Aschi Popp.7496 said:

@Kheldorn.5123 said:I'm lazy, I want my rewards easy to forget about real life difficulties. And this is why I chose this game. I'm not going to tryhard over pixel items, wasting hours of my life farming single boss to get what I want. This is not a tryhard game and I'm happy with it.

For "us old gamers" as you try to present yourself, there are many other titles where your tryhard nature can be satisfied.

And the same applies tonyou, there are many titles on Facebook where your nature can be satisfied.

A facebook MMORPG? Not even close.What a rediculous suggestion.

I would love to know of a more casual MMORPG than guild wars?Im the kind of player who loved Fable. .GW2 is the closest mmo to that. Especially with the action cam.

At the OP, I don't think it's fair to call it laziness. ..more so, people have life commitments. Gaming was something that teenagers and college students did..and They had the time to grind etc...but those teenagers now have families and jobs that take priority over gaming, but they still play games. They don't want to spend it running around just to finally get to what they want to do.

Let me throw away all pretense...He shouldGo.Play.Farmville.

Again I have 2 kids, work 50hr weeks, this and that, and gw2 gets mayyybe 8 hrs a week TOPS. I am casual. I am so casual I make a habit of giving away precursor drops. Again all the loot I have I earned at a slow pace but I was happy with the way I was able to get it.

Now everyone ones everything now and in top of that they want what is no longer here to get.

See my sbux example above and refute it.

Why can't people buy the the game and enjoy it as it is? And for people who say "well Omar you don't " that's because my gripe is only with the taking away of townclothes and personality system.

I mean seriously, do you people go through life resenting your neighbours and friends because they own things you Don't?

[Dante.1763]

@Just a flesh wound.3589 said:I keep hearing the theory that WvW was removed because of complaints. They removed it at the time that a new map was added. They were also taking about rotating between maps.

Can you imagine trying to get map completion, get partway through a map and it’s replaced by another map so you have to start over? . How about the people who hadn’t finished the WvW maps when they were replaced with the new Desert Borderlands and would have to start over? Keeping WvW in map completion causes problems with their wish to rotate between different maps and people who hadn’t finished the old maps and now have to redo the maps, having to do twice the work as everyone else.

They removed it earlier than that, you can look up the patches that added the new map and when WvW was removed as a requirement, March of 2015 they removed the requirement of map completion in WvW, October of 2015 they added the new map to WvW.

[Just a flesh wound.3589]

@Dante.1763 said:

@"Just a flesh wound.3589" said:I keep hearing the theory that WvW was removed because of complaints. They removed it at the time that a new map was added. They were also taking about rotating between maps.

Can you imagine trying to get map completion, get partway through a map and it’s replaced by another map so you have to start over? . How about the people who hadn’t finished the WvW maps when they were replaced with the new Desert Borderlands and would have to start over? Keeping WvW in map completion causes problems with their wish to rotate between different maps and people who hadn’t finished the old maps and now have to redo the maps, having to do twice the work as everyone else.

They removed it earlier than that, you can look up the patches that added the new map and when WvW was removed as a requirement, March of 2015 they removed the requirement of map completion in WvW, October of 2015 they added the new map to WvW.

Close enough. They obviously knew at that time that there was a new map replacing the old borderlands and that there would be people who would be working on the old set when the new set was put in and would have to start over. I expect by that time they also had their plans to rotate between new maps periodically.

Edit:Removal of map completion announced March 13thNew Borderlands announced March 26th

Only 13 days difference.

[Dante.1763]

@Just a flesh wound.3589 said:

@Dante.1763 said:

@Just a flesh wound.3589 said:I keep hearing the theory that WvW was removed because of complaints. They removed it at the time that a new map was added. They were also taking about rotating between maps.

Can you imagine trying to get map completion, get partway through a map and it’s replaced by another map so you have to start over? . How about the people who hadn’t finished the WvW maps when they were replaced with the new Desert Borderlands and would have to start over? Keeping WvW in map completion causes problems with their wish to rotate between different maps and people who hadn’t finished the old maps and now have to redo the maps, having to do twice the work as everyone else.

They removed it earlier than that, you can look up the patches that added the new map and when WvW was removed as a requirement, March of 2015 they removed the requirement of map completion in WvW, October of 2015 they added the new map to WvW.

Close enough. They obviously knew at that time that there was a new map replacing the old borderlands and that there would be people who would be working on the old set when the new set was put in and would have to start over. I expect by that time they also had their plans to rotate between new maps periodically.

True true!

On topic: i still dont believe players are getting lazy. I just want to be able to get something accomplished in the time i have to play, which isnt much if i have something else to do IRL considering i work long hours. So when i play its much more fun if i can just /go/ to the content. i dont have an opinion overly on the waypoint package..but it is nice and i am looking at buying at least one on my brand new guardian.

[Just a flesh wound.3589]

@Dante.1763 said:

@Just a flesh wound.3589 said:

@Dante.1763 said:

@Just a flesh wound.3589 said:I keep hearing the theory that WvW was removed because of complaints. They removed it at the time that a new map was added. They were also taking about rotating between maps.

Can you imagine trying to get map completion, get partway through a map and it’s replaced by another map so you have to start over? . How about the people who hadn’t finished the WvW maps when they were replaced with the new Desert Borderlands and would have to start over? Keeping WvW in map completion causes problems with their wish to rotate between different maps and people who hadn’t finished the old maps and now have to redo the maps, having to do twice the work as everyone else.

They removed it earlier than that, you can look up the patches that added the new map and when WvW was removed as a requirement, March of 2015 they removed the requirement of map completion in WvW, October of 2015 they added the new map to WvW.

Close enough. They obviously knew at that time that there was a new map replacing the old borderlands and that there would be people who would be working on the old set when the new set was put in and would have to start over. I expect by that time they also had their plans to rotate between new maps periodically.

True true!

On topic: i still dont believe players are getting lazy. I just want to be able to get something accomplished in the time i have to play, which isnt much if i have something else to do IRL considering i work long hours. So when i play its much more fun if i can just /go/ to the content. i dont have an opinion overly on the waypoint package..but it is nice and i am looking at buying at least one on my brand new guardian.

Yah. It’s just annoying seeing posts such as the OP’s blaming PvE players complaints for the removal of WvW in map completion. There was only 13 days between the two announcements in the blog posts (links in post above) and if the people who point fingers at PvE players would only stop and think a bit they’d see that switching the maps would cause problems for map completion as people would get caught with maps not finished when the new maps were put in and if they started rotating between maps.

[Dante.1763]

@Just a flesh wound.3589 said:

@Dante.1763 said:

@Just a flesh wound.3589 said:

@Dante.1763 said:

@Just a flesh wound.3589 said:I keep hearing the theory that WvW was removed because of complaints. They removed it at the time that a new map was added. They were also taking about rotating between maps.

Can you imagine trying to get map completion, get partway through a map and it’s replaced by another map so you have to start over? . How about the people who hadn’t finished the WvW maps when they were replaced with the new Desert Borderlands and would have to start over? Keeping WvW in map completion causes problems with their wish to rotate between different maps and people who hadn’t finished the old maps and now have to redo the maps, having to do twice the work as everyone else.

They removed it earlier than that, you can look up the patches that added the new map and when WvW was removed as a requirement, March of 2015 they removed the requirement of map completion in WvW, October of 2015 they added the new map to WvW.

Close enough. They obviously knew at that time that there was a new map replacing the old borderlands and that there would be people who would be working on the old set when the new set was put in and would have to start over. I expect by that time they also had their plans to rotate between new maps periodically.

True true!

On topic: i still dont believe players are getting lazy. I just want to be able to get something accomplished in the time i have to play, which isnt much if i have something else to do IRL considering i work long hours. So when i play its much more fun if i can just /go/ to the content. i dont have an opinion overly on the waypoint package..but it is nice and i am looking at buying at least one on my brand new guardian.

Yah. It’s just annoying seeing posts such as the OP’s blaming PvE players complaints for the removal of WvW in map completion. There was only 13 days between the two announcements in the blog posts (links in post above) and if the people who point fingers at PvE players would only stop and think a bit they’d see that switching the maps would cause problems for map completion as people would get caught with maps not finished when the new maps were put in and if they started rotating between maps.

I dont think its blaming them, so much as.....so many people asked/complained about it(ill admit i was one of them) that it seems that way in the end. No matter what the real reasoning was for adding them, like mounts. Yes alot of people asked for them, but theyve been in the works for a very long time. Anet clearly has long term goals for the game, and im kinda happy they dont share them sometimes.

[Neural.1824]

waypoints, recalls, etc. throughout various games are product of the game industry wanting to accommodate players who do not have all day to do things. On top of this, teleportation things can be traced back to the same source as instant top level boosts, mounts, and similar things: People want to join a game that their friends have been involved with for a long time, and experience the things their friends are excited about.Dungeons and Raids attributed to this also, as even if you have a level 80 character, you may be in Town A while the raid entrance is in mountain rainge B. Having ways to teleport to the raid location allow for players to quickly group together for their night of fun, when otherwise several may have too many life responsibilities to allow them to first spend an hour fighting their way to where the raid starts. A big part of this is player retention, as well as attracting new players from the career/working class individuals who don't normally have so many extra hours a day to play like college students and so on.Have people gotten lazy? yes and no. Game companies wanted to capture a larger market for players, so they had to accommodate their time schedule in order to attract their money. This along with the power of "but my friend who wants to join.." has resulted in games being focused around fast paced content (regardless of difficulty).. Mounts almost always involve an increase in movement speed (get to the action faster).
We live in a fast paced impatient world (at least most of the target demographics do). Patience is a forgotten trait.At the start of it all, back in the days where RNG was literally based on the roll of physical dice, and your guild was comprised of people you would argue with over which pizza toppings to get that night and who got to sit in the recliner, patience was a huge deal. You didn't start a campaign with a brand new character and end the night 4 hours later at level 80. Leveling, in the beginning, was something that was a big deal, no matter what level it was. Game "content" wasn't just provided by the dungeon master, but also by the players, who could make decisions that would affect the story that DM had planned, and thus cause them to need to adjust.In the long run, one of the reasons people miss those days so much, is that we developed life time friendships that transcended the game itself. I know that in the five years that GW2 has been out, there are people who have met, fell in love, and gotten married, and are happy. I get that. We've seen players have children, lose parents, and we've lost players. I know people who started table top gaming when they were just married, and who still game with the same group of friends, while talking about their high school aged kids. These are people who are not separated by a vast ocean of optical fiber, switches, and servers. They live in the same apartment complexes, or the same town, and their friendships are rock solid.
This is not to say that such friendships can't be formed in today's MMO's, but this is what has been lost in the digital age, and part of that loss has been the need for game companies to cater to the time schedule of millions of players. It's not Arenanet's fault (yes, I actually said that :P), nor is it Blizzard's fault, etc. They are making a game for millions of players, not just a group of 5 to 10 friends.I personally cannot stand the level 80 boost, and it really saddens me how fast you can level a character from 1 to 80 even without XP boosters, etc. And this whole "end game" content stuff. In the past, the game itself was the content, and the "end game" content was there to keep people subscribed and give them something to do that only they could do. Now? Now it's 95% about end game, and all the new players have it in their heads that they aren't really playing the game until they get to the end game content.This is a change that has happened somewhat recently as well. The first MMO I ever played was Vanguard: Saga of Heroes. I spent months playing just one character, and the highest level in Adventuring that I got to was just 19. The fact that I got to level 32 in the Crafting sphere might have a little effect on that, but that's besides the point, the point is that even with so much time running around, I never fully explored what the map had to offer, and I enjoyed the game for months on end not caring that I wasn't top level. If Vanguard had any "end game" content, I didn't even know it existed.The same could be said of City of Heroes. The top level I reached in that game over the years was around 32 or so, and to many of my friends, it was a big deal to hit 50. Because it took time. But on the same token it also took time commitment.Are the players of today lazy? Most certainly, but it's not that they were lazy and went looking for something to be lazy at. The game industry shifted to cater to a lifestyle of people who were not lazy, but busy, and in the long run, those who are not busy, adapted to that casual style of game play that we now see as lazy.I think overall people need to learn to accept that Guild Wars 2 has a lot to offer those who have a casual playstyle, as well as to those who have limited time in game, because Arenanet has determined that those two groups are going to be the most profitable. Much as I want level 80 boosts to die in a fire, they are probably here to stay. The same can be said of mounts, waypoint packages, etc.The most positive I can say out of all of this, is that sooner or later, some one out there that has the money, connections, and time, is going to get fed up with instant progress, and instant satisfaction, and they are going to step out on their own and create an MMORPG that captures the essence of what made table top gaming so memorable and popular. Will it be a WoW level of success? likely not, but I believe if done right, a game can be created that will be so enchanting and immersive, that people who get a taste of it will not even bat an eye at paying a $15/month subscription fee. They will log in on their favorite character, and focus on getting that stolen trinket the King was going to gift to his daughter, not caring that they are only level 2 and are weeks from level 3, because it won't be about the XP and the leveling anymore. It will be about being part of a story, and enjoying the journey with your friends.

[Drew.1865]

Why would I care how other players play the game as long as I have the freedom to chose how I play? I wish more players would focus on what they find fun and not on what other players find fun.

[Lord Kreegan.8123]

I played at release, then left after getting all five characters to 80... and getting banned from the forums for some minor offense. That always pisses me off...I came back, much like I have with other games: WoW, Rift, SWToR, ESO, LotRO, EQ2, on and on and on for games whose names I don't even recall; you name it, I've played it, left, and gone back, only to leave again... and the same thing is true every time, especially for games that have gone free-to-play. The devs [management team] make the game ridiculously easy to level so the little twelve-year olds in grandma's basement with mommy's filched credit card will use whatever sort of game store is provided to buy all kinds of stuff, especially expansions. Gotta' level to max to want expansions; right?I have one character right now who is close to 70 -- and I haven't been playing again all that long. All my other characters are 50-60-ish. That one character, however, has gotten so many XP tomes that it is ridiculous. Yeah, I don't have to use them; I also don't have to breathe, eat, defecate, drink, or think... especially in GW2 in its current state.The first thing I noticed when I started playing again is that it's ridiculously easy to level now... heart quests are simple to complete, sometimes without even knowing you're doing them; events don't fire because they might distract you from lazily "exploring" [that's a joke] the map; XP and gear gets handed out like its candy. The stories are nothing more than time-sinks, sending a character halfway across the world to complete impossible-to-fail tasks.The biggest problem (other than sheer boredom) is that crafting and gear don't keep up with the accelerated leveling process.As with other games I've gone back to, I suspect I will leave this game [again] once all my characters reach 80. There's no way I'm going to buy the expansions. The game is boring now, not challenging, and the scam approach to encourage little twelve-year old kids to use mommy's filched credit card only suffices to piss off an old dog like me.Oh... kitten kitten kitten kitten...I like cats.

[Dante.1763]

@"Lord Kreegan.8123" said:I played at release, then left after getting all five characters to 80... and getting banned from the forums for some minor offense. That always pisses me off...I came back, much like I have with other games: WoW, Rift, SWToR, ESO, LotRO, EQ2, on and on and on for games whose names I don't even recall; you name it, I've played it, left, and gone back, only to leave again... and the same thing is true every time, especially for games that have gone free-to-play. The devs [management team] make the game ridiculously easy to level so the little twelve-year olds in grandma's basement with mommy's filched credit card will use whatever sort of game store is provided to buy all kinds of stuff, especially expansions. Gotta' level to max to want expansions; right?I have one character right now who is close to 70 -- and I haven't been playing again all that long. All my other characters are 50-60-ish. That one character, however, has gotten so many XP tomes that it is ridiculous. Yeah, I don't have to use them; I also don't have to breathe, eat, defecate, drink, or think... especially in GW2 in its current state.The first thing I noticed when I started playing again is that it's ridiculously easy to level now... heart quests are simple to complete, sometimes without even knowing you're doing them; events don't fire because they might distract you from lazily "exploring" [that's a joke] the map; XP and gear gets handed out like its candy. The stories are nothing more than time-sinks, sending a character halfway across the world to complete impossible-to-fail tasks.The biggest problem (other than sheer boredom) is that crafting and gear don't keep up with the accelerated leveling process.As with other games I've gone back to, I suspect I will leave this game [again] once all my characters reach 80. There's no way I'm going to buy the expansions. The game is boring now, not challenging, and the scam approach to encourage little twelve-year old kids to use mommy's filched credit card only suffices to kitten off an old dog like me.Oh... kitten kitten kitten kitten...I like cats.

Except...core tyria with the exception of Orr was always stupid easy, and Orr itself wasnt to hard, just annoying to get around in. The hearts have always been quick to complete, the events with the exception of some champions and world bosses have always been easy to do, quite a few the few events have always needed you to talk to someone to trigger to them, the drops you get are typically garbage, so while you seem to be getting alot you really arent.Crafting requires you to either purchase materials from the trading post or harvest them in mass, or more reasonably a mix of the two. Gear does keep up with the leveling process(with the exception of ascended, you have to craft it or do fractals and even then its not guaranteed.)As for the expansions(HoT doesnt have hearts, and alot of the events are decently challenging when solo, especially if you are in subpar gear or a not very effective build.) PoF does have hearts and they take forever and you have to redo them, otherwise its a tad bit easier than HoT and much larger. thats about it.

[usnedward.9023]

The game is getting large with all the new areas: HoT, LS3 and now PoF. I saw it happen in a few other MMOs where the content get so huge that it is necessary to dumb down old content and offer faster ways to get to 80 so players can jump right in and not do what we veterans did and go through each content. It is a business model. Would you start an MMO such as GW2 where you would have to start level 1 and have to get do certain content before you can do the max content? I would say no.

With that being said I don't really see it as a bad idea because the newb can jump in and enjoy the latest content. However they must go back to old for certain things such as the masteries for auto loot, gliding and such.

I am however a little disturbed by the recent update that has already nerfed a story line. I usually main new content with my Necro but this time took it easy, went map by map and storyline by storyline with my spongy Thief and really found nothing hard about any encounters. Having done that on that toon I see NO problems with my Necro at all.

[AstralDusk.1670]

It's a game. Be lazy if you want to be lazy. Take the fastest route to find your fun. No one gets extra points for doing things the hard way (True in real life, but doubly so in-game.)

[Torolan.5816]

1 Thumbs up to the bologna hunter. You made my day, good sir.^^

Playing is NOT a waste of time just because you do not get paid for it. I work with children and where I work, we except the children to play in any fashion they want as it is their job to be creative and find out what they like. In the dark ages of kindergarten education, children were forced to sit around in a quiet fashion and play the games the kindergarten teacher forced upon them. Laughing by commando so to say, a practice that created numerous zombie yesmen over the years. Some of the children prefer the thrill of high adrenaline games and chases, others are pleased just to quietly build towers and roads with roadblocks.

I see no problem in people looking for shortcuts or convenience. As Tachenon already laid out, progress eases both work and gaming. I am pretty sure people would not have raged when the truck replaced the horse because of its sheer capacibility to do so because a long drawn out procedure was more than halfed. It is widely accepted because it saves time and money. Why should it be bad in games?