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New Generation Roamers lack the Bravery of the Old Guards


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For the past few weeks, I have logged into WvW to see Tier 3 enemy supply camps in EBG and Borderlands.

This would have been a rare sight in the past when roamers would have gone deep into enemy lands to take their camps.It wasn't easy to tier up a supply camp.

Now? Tier 3 Supply Camps are everywhere.We got them, enemies got them, everyone got them.

And the reason is because our new generation roamers lack the bravery to roam in enemy lands.Whether solo, duo or party, they mostly roam in home owned territories only.Enter the enemy lands? Rare.

I even once offered and paid a roamer 2 gold to flip an enemy T3 camp that was supplying SMC with speed yaks that we were trying to take.

This is just sad.

Just earlier I watched an old guard roaming guild QQ bravely roaming in enemy territories and fighting outnumbered.This is what it means to roam bravely and freely.

New Generation roamers need to learn this from the old guards.

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I agree most players are not willing to commit to even or outnumbered fights these days, but I do still see players running around at the north end of enemy bls. I would agree that those players are less successful than they used to be, but I'm not sure I can put my finger on a reason for that . . .

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@XECOR.2814 said:Roamers? You mean tankers?

That or playing very forwarding carry builds.

Game working as intended, game was mostly designed for cowards and bad player that need easy gimmicks to get carried.

Broken vs broken = balanced game in Anet lamer eyes.

I doubt they will have ever a game more towards player skill rather than pick one of the most broken builds and see how much u can get carried against non meta gimmicks.

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@"Holland.9351" said:It's probably because of the watchtower upgrade on towers and the "marked" of sentries. Which I both love.

Camp flippers can only go so many routes unnoticed and the defenders only have to watch the routes the sentries/watchtowers don't cover.

To add to that, the camp flippers were never brave. They needed to flip a camp fast enough before anyone had time to react and fight them over it. Then they'd disappear in stealth to go to the next camp.

edit: Let's also not forget the Target Painter Trap. All great additions to the game.

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Well i go around looking for fights but when a iget outnumbered not using a broken class that can get in and out at will like thief mesmer rangers warrior and holo my skill means nothing against these classes with better tools.

I still do it and am happy when i win against other bad players since the same lvl of skill ones will win most times due to the class they have.

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@EremiteAngel.9765 said:And the reason is because our new generation roamers lack the bravery to roam in enemy lands.

It's a nice attempt at framing, but bravery is not a factor when a player has nothing to lose by putting themselves in a risky situation...otherwise the player behind Leeroy Jenkins is woefully overdue to receive an MMORPGMOH (Massively Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game Medal of Honor)

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The problem on EBG at least is the very high (IMO) coverage of watchtowers that turn what could be a reasonable attempt on a camp into basically a suicide mission. I know the routes into, say Rogue's Quarry, without detection, but you need to weave in between towers and swim right in front of the keep and hope and pray that nobody sees you. It is possible during off hours or shoulder hours, but during prime time you're not likely to pull it off without being seen. And then you have mounts, which means that if you don't nuke the camp instantly and have ring up before swords pop you're going to get a response from multiple foes. Without mounts, it might not have been possible for the opposing force to get to you to save the camp. WIth mounts and friendly territory speed boost it is trivial.

And screw that random dolyak that always spawns when you have the camp 90% capped and you see the opposing warclaw racing towards you.

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And screw that random dolyak that always spawns when you have the camp 90% capped and you see the opposing warclaw racing towards you.

Or the second one spawning like right after you killed the first and you see 6 Guys running towards you

All the bravery in the worldAnd you getting killed by 6 dismount skills(That last one is the real reason people quit)

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@"Mikhael.2391" said:Well i go around looking for fights but when a iget outnumbered not using a broken class that can get in and out at will like thief mesmer rangers warrior and holo my skill means nothing against these classes with better tools.

I still do it and am happy when i win against other bad players since the same lvl of skill ones will win most times due to the class they have.

Don't you love this logic? If I win, it's because I'm better! But if I lose, it's because you play easier/better class. At this point I'd advice playing "the better class" and stop making excuses when you happen to lose. :Dbonus tip! You're not limited to playing a single class and you can swap them depending on what you want to do :open_mouth:

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As stated above, everything auto upgrades now, in the past to get T3 took work, as the population was MUCH higher for roamers, which are very rare these days. Not only did upgrades require someone to be there to upgrade it, but it consumed all of the supply AND cost gold. And at the start of the game, there was also no T3 camps, they maxed at T2 with additional guards and level 82 NPCs. And no speed buffs to yaks, so it took longer, also, say it's a well trafficed camp, back then, it could be impossible to upgrade because people would keep taking supply, resulting in not enough supply being in the depot to start the upgrade.

People forget how easy, I mean super easy it is to upgrade anything today vs back then. It's all passive now and depends on yaks, it's also part of why it's AC heaven today, as you had to make a choice back then, upgrade keep, or build siege, do you paper WP the keep, or add structure reinforcements? People would often run supply from garri or the like to the other keeps to build siege, however with all of the passives and watch tower etc, scouts almost don't exist anymore, no less people willing to run back and forth to garri/camp 300 times to build siege, all the while yelling at the rando running through picking up supply delaying your upgrade by yet another yak.

Also, being that you are on the map looking at T3 camps, why are you not taking them? Is this another case of "this is a problem!!.....For someone else to fix"?

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I play Kodash [EU], and for last 3 days i got killed by asura condi trapper abount ~20 times, wherever i go i meet this small ****r, i even cant get out from our keep. Shall i know when finally these condi builds get a nerf ??? Because almost all roamers i meet are thiefs or condi mesmers/ condi rangers....

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@Sobx.1758 said:

@"Mikhael.2391" said:Well i go around looking for fights but when a iget outnumbered not using a broken class that can get in and out at will like thief mesmer rangers warrior and holo my skill means nothing against these classes with better tools.

I still do it and am happy when i win against other bad players since the same lvl of skill ones will win most times due to the class they have.

Don't you love this logic? If I win, it's because I'm better! But if I lose, it's because you play easier/better class. At this point I'd advice playing "the better class" and stop making excuses when you happen to lose. :Dbonus tip! You're not limited to playing a single class and you can swap them depending on what you want to do :open_mouth:

I might loose ofc. But unlike a mesmer that has the tools to fend off a guardian and necro players at same time that have the same skill level because of the class mechanichs and invulns damage denials WHILE dealling damage works better and can be more bursty from a safe distance the other way around will not happen. A guardian cannot disengage at will and successfully run away to get cds back nor a necro.

And that is not up to discussion .

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@Mikhael.2391 said:

@Mikhael.2391 said:Well i go around looking for fights but when a iget outnumbered not using a broken class that can get in and out at will like thief mesmer rangers warrior and holo my skill means nothing against these classes with better tools.

I still do it and am happy when i win against other bad players since the same lvl of skill ones will win most times due to the class they have.

Don't you love this logic? If I win, it's because I'm better! But if I lose, it's because you play easier/better class. At this point I'd advice playing "the better class" and stop making excuses when you happen to lose. :Dbonus tip! You're not limited to playing a single class and you can swap them depending on what you want to do :open_mouth:

I might loose ofc. But unlike a mesmer that has the tools to fend off a guardian and necro players at same time that have the same skill level because of the class mechanichs and invulns damage denials WHILE dealling damage works better and can be more bursty from a safe distance the other way around will not happen. A guardian cannot disengage at will and successfully run away to get cds back nor a necro.

And that is not up to discussion .

Then why arent you playing those classes? Im sure you're playing necro/guard because they're so bad :DTbh it seems you're just making excuses whenever you fail.

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@Sobx.1758 said:

@Mikhael.2391 said:Well i go around looking for fights but when a iget outnumbered not using a broken class that can get in and out at will like thief mesmer rangers warrior and holo my skill means nothing against these classes with better tools.

I still do it and am happy when i win against other bad players since the same lvl of skill ones will win most times due to the class they have.

Don't you love this logic? If I win, it's because I'm better! But if I lose, it's because you play easier/better class. At this point I'd advice playing "the better class" and stop making excuses when you happen to lose. :Dbonus tip! You're not limited to playing a single class and you can swap them depending on what you want to do :open_mouth:

I might loose ofc. But unlike a mesmer that has the tools to fend off a guardian and necro players at same time that have the same skill level because of the class mechanichs and invulns damage denials WHILE dealling damage works better and can be more bursty from a safe distance the other way around will not happen. A guardian cannot disengage at will and successfully run away to get cds back nor a necro.

And that is not up to discussion .

Then why arent you playing those classes? Im sure you're playing necro/guard because they're so bad :DTbh it seems you're just making excuses whenever you fail.

I play them because they are more fun and were the first 2 i played at launch.

Not making excuses but any necro that wins against a thief means the thief was bad.

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@"TinkTinkPOOF.9201" said:As stated above, everything auto upgrades now, in the past to get T3 took work, as the population was MUCH higher for roamers, which are very rare these days. Not only did upgrades require someone to be there to upgrade it, but it consumed all of the supply AND cost gold. And at the start of the game, there was also no T3 camps, they maxed at T2 with additional guards and level 82 NPCs. And no speed buffs to yaks, so it took longer, also, say it's a well trafficed camp, back then, it could be impossible to upgrade because people would keep taking supply, resulting in not enough supply being in the depot to start the upgrade.

People forget how easy, I mean super easy it is to upgrade anything today vs back then. It's all passive now and depends on yaks, it's also part of why it's AC heaven today, as you had to make a choice back then, upgrade keep, or build siege, do you paper WP the keep, or add structure reinforcements? People would often run supply from garri or the like to the other keeps to build siege, however with all of the passives and watch tower etc, scouts almost don't exist anymore, no less people willing to run back and forth to garri/camp 300 times to build siege, all the while yelling at the rando running through picking up supply delaying your upgrade by yet another yak.

Also, being that you are on the map looking at T3 camps, why are you not taking them? Is this another case of "this is a problem!!.....For someone else to fix"?

This.Also i miss the beef in chat between ppl trying to upgrade stuff and ppl taking supplies to build siege. Good times.

Also, watchtower everywhere, groups of ppl running around, and warclaw being so fast to defend.I mostly roam solo and often times you just cant flip a camp Alone without 2+ppl shwoing up, and even if you fight outnumbered and kill one, he will just respawn and with the warclaws help be back before you stomped the other guy, getting you stuck in an endless loop of killing them, running out of cooldowns, or until more ppl show up to kill you, even better, chase you across half the map, because they get ooc mount up, while others with more mobility keep you in fight.

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