Remove reveal from Marked

[ComeAndGetThem.3152]

Hi,Could we remove the "Entering stealth while marked will place the Detected! effect on you for 2 seconds." in Marked? I mean it totally destroys thief gameplay and i cant see a good reason for it to exist anyways.Ty.

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

Then you have no idea what Marked is used for. Mesmers and Thieves both have portals, which means that if you don't get Marked and Revealed after an objective is captured, you will just port all of your allies back in and bypass all the walls and gates.

Its literally a counter to stealth (along with Sniff), because that plagued the game mode for so long.

And you say it destroys stealth gameplay, but I haven't seen this happen. Instead I've still seen Mesmers and Thieves porting people in when no one searches enough, or in open field where they just destroy the Sentry causing Marked ,etc. It just means you have to actually be creative, hide properly and kill anyone who finds you instead of staying perma-stealth until everyone goes away.

[Blocki.4931]

They made it this way for a reason you know

[Justine.6351]

They could increase the timer to > 3 seconds so standard one-off durations are not affected.

[Bunny.9834]

No.

Infact put sentries in SMC on the 2nd and 3rd Floor

Permastealth is ridiculous.

[schokelmei.8271]

Give reveal to all professions (except those with access to stealth) instead and take away reveal removal from DE.

[Dawdler.8521]

"Totally destroys thief gameplay"

I have literally fought thieves in just capped keeps with permamarked and they just stealthed and restealthed with impunity.

[schokelmei.8271]

Everything destroys thief gameplay when you ask thief players. The best thing is to ignore their sad attempts to argue.

[bluberblasen.9684]

Remove reveal thiefs ~~from Marked ~~from the game.ftfy

[Svarty.8019]

@"Hannelore.8153" said:Its literally a counter to stealth (along with Sniff), because that plagued the game mode for so long.

"plagued" is a bit strong - I enjoyed the Mesmer Sweep and removing the necessity for it automated yet another of the WvW minigames.

[Klypto.1703]

@bluberblasen.9684 said:Remove reveal thiefs ~~from Marked ~~from the game.ftfy

Yeah imagine all the trash that would pile up if we thieves and mesmers were not here to clean it up and keep it beautiful.

[ComeAndGetThem.3152]

@"Hannelore.8153" said:Then you have no idea what Marked is used for. Mesmers and Thieves both have portals, which means that if you don't get Marked and Revealed after an objective is captured, you will just port all of your allies back in and bypass all the walls and gates.

Its literally a counter to stealth (along with Sniff), because that plagued the game mode for so long.

And you say it destroys stealth gameplay, but I haven't seen this happen. Instead I've still seen Mesmers and Thieves porting people in when no one searches enough, or in open field where they just destroy the Sentry causing Marked ,etc. It just means you have to actually be creative, hide properly and kill anyone who finds you instead of staying perma-stealth until everyone goes away.

What you are saying does make sense and i have no argue to not keep it inside towers, keeps and sm but, the sentry reveal is just too much. I know that logic says "just kill the sentry then" but if you say that then you obviously haven't played thief at all. If there is at least one enemy player near the sentry, killing it with no stealth will get you downed state, or in best case scenario it will force you to use most of your utility skills, making it impossible to fight that opponent player after. I 'm not gonna mention cases where there are more than one enemy players near the sentry...

In regard to towers, keeps and sm i still think it can be constrained withing the structure's walls only. Yesterday i was fighting another thief just outside Wildcreek. He had plenty of access to stealth where i, not only couldn't stealth for more than 2 secs, but i was revealed after that. This resulted to me having to disengage all the way north, the enemy thief didnt follow and the fight was pretty much over. Because of that reveal.

I can understand that thief gameplay can be annoying to non-thieves players. But keep in mind that this is how the class was designed. Keeping marked strictly withing an objective's walls is fine by me, but if you say it is correct staying like it is now where it has open-field consequences, is just thief hating.

You have a right to feel frustrated with thief gameplay, but we thieves have a right to play the way our class was built to play.

[Clownmug.8357]

No stealth gets you downed? All the sword/dagger and sword/pistol users I see lately must have godlike skill then.

[TinkTinkPOOF.9201]

Marked function was a horrible idea, it shows that some builds stealth was absolutely broken on, and still is on some, however it's another passive that we don't need. perma stealth builds still exist and need to be looked at and fixed, and remove the marked function. Which is mostly so people don't have to slow down on their ktrain to sweep anymore. It dumbs things down and removes tactics from game play. Someone else mentioned "sniff", which is something else that can also go away, want to stack inside or behind a wall for a sneak attack, portal bomb or ANYTHING that involves some sort of tactics other than running head long into a sea of red, is killed off by sniff. All you have to do is mount, get close to the wall or gate and use the skill and "oh, look, they are stacked inside on the left", it's like anet saw the cheating programs for ESP and was like "HEY!!, lets actually add it to the game!!". GG anet.

[ComeAndGetThem.3152]

@Clownmug.8357 said:No stealth gets you downed? All the sword/dagger and sword/pistol users I see lately must have godlike skill then.

Ty for your comment. Proves exactly how little ppl know about thieves and yet they have a pretty strong opinion on how the class should be played. I play many thief builds. I enjoy all. The ones you mentioned, require no stealth whatsoever. But since i use sd or sp in pvp, i like to use something else when roaming in wvw. So i like dp with dash or bound variation. In these builds stealth is mandatory for surviving. Do not assume i stand here to defend perma stealth builds. But from wanting to nurf perma stealth to completely destroying all the builds that actually have some use of stealth are two different things.

[kash.9213]

Help a tag or some havoc group soften up a piece of their corner for a bit to add it to your route for the night.

[Clownmug.8357]

@ComeAndGetThem.3152 said:

@Clownmug.8357 said:No stealth gets you downed? All the sword/dagger and sword/pistol users I see lately must have godlike skill then.

Ty for your comment. Proves exactly how little ppl know about thieves and yet they have a pretty strong opinion on how the class should be played. I play many thief builds. I enjoy all. The ones you mentioned, require no stealth whatsoever. But since i use sd or sp in pvp, i like to use something else when roaming in wvw. So i like dp with dash or bound variation. In these builds stealth is mandatory for surviving. Do not assume i stand here to defend perma stealth builds. But from wanting to nurf perma stealth to completely destroying all the builds that actually have some use of stealth are two different things.

My only opinion is that builds where you don't need to avoid damage re-actively aren't worth preserving. What's wrong with that?

[Bigpapasmurf.5623]

Hard counter to perma stealth thieves. It was necessary

[Jables.4659]

@Clownmug.8357 said:No stealth gets you downed? All the sword/dagger and sword/pistol users I see lately must have godlike skill then.

That's kind of the issue though. Adding marked to WvW objectives didn't kill thief, it just hurt build diversity (which has been a common theme in the past 6 months) That being said, Permastealth is horseshit so I understand why it was added, I just wish the range wouldn't extend outside of the keep itself, and I wish it would allow 3 second stealth skills to go unmolested.

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

@ComeAndGetThem.3152 said:

@"Hannelore.8153" said:Then you have no idea what Marked is used for. Mesmers and Thieves both have portals, which means that if you don't get Marked and Revealed after an objective is captured, you will just port all of your allies back in and bypass all the walls and gates.

Its literally a counter to stealth (along with Sniff), because that plagued the game mode for so long.

And you say it destroys stealth gameplay, but I haven't seen this happen. Instead I've still seen Mesmers and Thieves porting people in when no one searches enough, or in open field where they just destroy the Sentry causing Marked ,etc. It just means you have to actually be creative, hide properly and kill anyone who finds you instead of staying perma-stealth until everyone goes away.

What you are saying does make sense and i have no argue to not keep it inside towers, keeps and sm but, the sentry reveal is just too much. I know that logic says "just kill the sentry then" but if you say that then you obviously haven't played thief at all. If there is at least one enemy player near the sentry, killing it with no stealth will get you downed state, or in best case scenario it will force you to use most of your utility skills, making it impossible to fight that opponent player after. I 'm not gonna mention cases where there are more than one enemy players near the sentry...

In regard to towers, keeps and sm i still think it can be constrained withing the structure's walls only. Yesterday i was fighting another thief just outside Wildcreek. He had plenty of access to stealth where i, not only couldn't stealth for more than 2 secs, but i was revealed after that. This resulted to me having to disengage all the way north, the enemy thief didnt follow and the fight was pretty much over. Because of that reveal.

I can understand that thief gameplay can be annoying to non-thieves players. But keep in mind that this is how the class was designed. Keeping marked strictly withing an objective's walls is fine by me, but if you say it is correct staying like it is now where it has open-field consequences, is just thief hating.

You have a right to feel frustrated with thief gameplay, but we thieves have a right to play the way our class was built to play.

I'll admit its probably bad idea on Sentries and traps but it needs to remain on towers, keeps and castles.

[Sobx.1758]

@Bigpapasmurf.5623 said:Hard counter to perma stealth thieves. It was necessary

True, it doesn't destroy thief gameplay and perma stealth is not needed at all.

I agree with @Justine.6351 though, 3 seconds would make sense, because it's still a single stealth application.

[KryTiKaL.3125]

@"Hannelore.8153" said:Then you have no idea what Marked is used for. Mesmers and Thieves both have portals, which means that if you don't get Marked and Revealed after an objective is captured, you will just port all of your allies back in and bypass all the walls and gates.

Its literally a counter to stealth (along with Sniff), because that plagued the game mode for so long.

And you say it destroys stealth gameplay, but I haven't seen this happen. Instead I've still seen Mesmers and Thieves porting people in when no one searches enough, or in open field where they just destroy the Sentry causing Marked ,etc. It just means you have to actually be creative, hide properly and kill anyone who finds you instead of staying perma-stealth until everyone goes away.

I just want to point out that Sniff doesn't actually reveal stealthed players. They said as much when they first introduced the Warclaw, but yes the wording on it is very deceptive in the game.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Sniff

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

@KryTiKaL.3125 said:

@"Hannelore.8153" said:Then you have no idea what Marked is used for. Mesmers and Thieves both have portals, which means that if you don't get Marked and Revealed after an objective is captured, you will just port all of your allies back in and bypass all the walls and gates.

Its literally a counter to stealth (along with Sniff), because that plagued the game mode for so long.

And you say it destroys stealth gameplay, but I haven't seen this happen. Instead I've still seen Mesmers and Thieves porting people in when no one searches enough, or in open field where they just destroy the Sentry causing Marked ,etc. It just means you have to actually be creative, hide properly and kill anyone who finds you instead of staying perma-stealth until everyone goes away.

I just want to point out that Sniff doesn't actually reveal stealthed players. They said as much when they first introduced the Warclaw, but yes the wording on it is very deceptive in the game.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Sniff

Ah, I've never actually taken that mastery so I didn't know how it worked, just assumed it Marked everyone even stealthed since that's literally the way that all other marking works in competitive, but I should've known better.

[Virdo.1540]

it shouldnt be "get revealed if longer than 2 seconds invisible" , since refreshing it every <2sec will restart the countdown (= permastealth)

it should be "not able to stealth" while being marked

[Sobx.1758]

@"Virdo.1540" said:it shouldnt be "get revealed if longer than 2 seconds invisible" , since refreshing it every <2sec will restart the countdown (= permastealth)

Um... what? If you keep re-applying stealth every "less than 2 seconds", you don't get revealed by a "revealed if stealthed for over 2 seconds" debuff? Sounds like you're wrong.

it should be "not able to stealth" while being marked

No, it shouldn't. There's nothing wrong with stealth itself, what's wrong is perma stealth (or anything near that) and that's exactly what's targeted here.