Fashion wars is becoming unblanced.

[LucianDK.8615]

And people is still going on with the fallacy of P2W. You dont buy anything that gives you an advantage in competitive play.

[Trise.2865]

"I worked hard for a thing, it should be better than everything always forever. I personally like something else better, so I feel cheated!"

You can "work hard" for gemstore items too, so the point is moot. Scaling feels a little off sometimes, but that's what happens in a flexible economy.

[Tsakhi.8124]

Is it weird that I read the original post as almost satirical?

[whoeverxwins.1279]

@Danikat.8537 said:

@"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said:What are we winning when everyone has their own idea of what is most unique, most fashionable, most cool?

That's where my thinking on these topics always goes. It reminds me of when the 7th birthday rock 'chair' was released and a bunch of the first people to get it (people who had created their characters on the first day of headstart) were all lined up in LA posing with them. Someone came along, took one look at the line-up and said "hardly any infusions, disappointing". It's a pretty safe bet the people there all had plenty of time to make their characters look however they wanted and it was true, hardly any of them were using infusions, or many shiny skins. They weren't even all using legendary weapons (or gem store/black lion weapons).

Tastes vary and you could never get a consensus on which are the best skins or how to 'win' at fasion wars, so even if they wanted to there's no way Anet could make sure all the best skins are in the gem store.

I was really looking forward to previewing the new Mythic Weapons after hearing all the talk about them, but when I finally got to see them in-game for myself I was disappointed. They're certainly shiny, and could go with some of my characters more over-the-top looks, but I don't think they're better than stuff I've already got and even if I could buy them directly for 500 gems or so I'm not sure I would.

(Although I recognise that a lot of people do really like them. This is actually the third weapon set to be released this way, and the fact that so many people are only just noticing there are unique weapon skins only available in bundles and acting like this is something Anet has never done before goes to show much much more attention this version is getting,)

But for what it's worth I'm one of the people who likes to look at other people's characters, I have a whole folder of screenshots of characters I think look really cool, and it's never because of 1 skin, or even because they have lots of flashy/expensive skins. It's the

combinations

which interest me. When someone has put together a look with a clear theme, or really good use of colour or something novel I've not seen before that impresses me. I don't even think about what the skins are or where they got them, unless I'm trying to figure out how they did it.

The character I've gotten the most whispered comments on is a Norn necromancer with a pretty simple outfit. Arah armor set, dyed black and gold with a bit of white on the pearls. The shoulders are gold and give her a certain fallen angel look. Head piece is one of the Norn cultural bands. The only 'flashy' thing is her Mad Realm greatsword, which I got from saving ticket scraps.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

I guess if this game was sub based we wouldn't have to worry about peoples grind becoming "invalidated" by someone elses wallet.

[casualkenny.9817]

@Zexanima.7851 said:

@Raknar.4735 said:

@Zexanima.7851 said:Screw me for drawing parallels I guess. Here is my refactored argument:

"Providing buyable skins that become on par with skins locked behind in game rewards invalidates the player effort required to obtain those in-game skins. This also chips away at the idea of prestige in the game as form of a progression ladder and curbs the idea of 'fashion' as a form of accomplishment."

You're implying that "fashion" can only be accomplished if you're using expensive or "prestige" skins. That's just not true. Flashy =/= good looking/fashionable

Ugghhhhhh.

insert "here we go again" meme

I'm not implying that

You're "technically" right that fashion doesn't have to be flashy, but that's not my meaning behind the use of the word in this case. I'm trying to say that looking flashy, having high poly count skins that look (and I'll be murdered for using this word) "cool" with good detail and vibrant colors in a multi-player game is generally viewed as prestigious. When you start giving out this same quality of gear to who ever has a dollar the prestige of those items starts to go out the window. There is no "fashion ladder" if I may be so bold as make up a term.

Please don't murder me I know that's not a real thing

you can't quote the player-wiki's statement about fashion wars, then switch to your own personal definition of fashion wars midway.

you're prolly referring to the prestige wars meta instead, which can be considered to be changing towards p2w, but prestige war builds tend not to be meta-viable in fashion wars. different game mode

[Brycar.2651]

@Dante.1763 said:You can just buy gen 2 legendaries as well. Sure you still have to make the thing, but outside of OBI shards everything else can be purchased with gold or gems.

I just ground out gift of battle in wvw. I could have bought that? Ugh

[Obtena.7952]

@Zexanima.7851 said:

@Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:What are we winning when everyone has their own idea of what is most unique, most fashionable, most cool?

What was suppose to be prestige. Also, what is considered fashionable and cool is surprisingly not all that unique across people. Things like color theory and shape design can be pretty well agreed upon in art. That's why there is good and bad art, good and bad fashion.

You're going to have to define what you mean about things supposed to be prestigious ... because from where I sit, NOTHING in this game was ever going to prevent any player from getting access to these skins. In otherwords, prestigious is certainly not an indication of limited access. So what is prestigious mean here?

Not only that but is there anything in this game that implies Anet intended them to be prestigious? I don't see it that way. They are just hard to get (relative to other skins). Frankly, I think people don't care about some notion of fashionable either. People simply want a large range of options to customize their look ... even if that look is 'bad' or common. Trust me ... I've seen some REALLY awful things people do to their looks ... but just the fact they can do it is why they play this game.

[Fueki.4753]

To me, Fashion Wars died once they stopped making armours and focused on one-piece outfits.To me, mixing and matching pieces is the lifeblood of Fashion Wars. Not even the vast colours selection can save it anymore.

[kharmin.7683]

@Fueki.4753 said:To me, Fashion Wars died once they stopped making armours and focused on one-piece outfits.To me, mixing and matching pieces is the lifeblood of Fashion Wars. Not even the vast colours selection can save it anymore.

Hear! Hear! Outfits do not interest me in the least because of the lack of ability to mix/match pieces. This prevents me from spending anything in the gem store for fashion.

[Lambent.6375]

@Fueki.4753 said:To me, Fashion Wars died once they stopped making armours and focused on one-piece outfits.To me, mixing and matching pieces is the lifeblood of Fashion Wars. Not even the vast colours selection can save it anymore.

They didn't stop making armors, it just takes a while for them to make. Didn't we just get a new set in Dragonfall?

[Dante.1763]

@Brycar.2651 said:

@Dante.1763 said:You can just buy gen 2 legendaries as well. Sure you still have to make the thing, but outside of OBI shards everything else can be purchased with gold or gems.

I just ground out gift of battle in wvw. I could have bought that? Ugh

Oh. Sorry. The one other item that you have to grind out. 95% of the weapon can be bought, as compared to Gen1 Legendaries where 100% of the weapon can be. But Mah prestigeeeee

[ugrakarma.9416]

with flashy spam and visual problems i wonder if even we really call fashion a "end game", in a zerg fighting boss no matter how "style" u have, u gotta literally invisible.

[Syrus.2174]

There has, for quite some time now, been a trend with new content added to the game.I feel like the reward from actually playing the game is falling quite short of the amount of things, be it gimmicks, skins, upgrades, etc., being added to the gem shop. Now, I know one can excuse that by pointing out how gems can be acquired through gold, but that pretty much turns the game into nothing more than a mindless farming simulator, as that's the best way to gain gold in good numbers (except for using trading post magic). It would mean only the most "profitable" content is the one played - until people get bored till their mind is dulled or the content is nerfed and, after a great outcry, makes people switch to other content or stop playing all together.

My main problem is, this does not encourage people to play the actual game. At best it makes them farm some content until the beforementioned happens. Indirect reward - through gold - just is not as fun as direct reward, in my opinion. But of course, Anet's main goal does not lie in making people farm gold for gems, it lies in people buying gems for money. I can understand that they want to make money, but lately it felt more and more like that is their only thought behind Guild Wars 2. Low maintainance mode, throwing in a shiny or two for the gem shop and little regard for the actual game, its story or whether it is fun to play. Often times even weapon or class breaking bugs are not fixed for months - looking at CoR on revenant hammers for example.

At the same time, convenience mechanics, available for free with much more usability in other games - and previously also available for free with more usability through a third party addon in Guild Wars 2 - like templates are massively limited, annoyingly and unnecessarily, just to make more money by putting the extension of them yet again behind the gem-wall.

Skins for gliders and mounts which would make for great ingame rewards are either put behind legendary lines at the greatest expense and a lot of work needed - in the case of gliders - or only available through the gem shop - and even worse, either overpriced - 15€ or even 25€ for a skin?! - or through gambling via "adoption licenses" - it is still 5€ of a random skin. While I do like the availability of legendary skins, and do endorse them to be hard to get, the lack of any other skins for gliders or mounts through non-money related sources, like rewards from content, be it achievements, living world story or currency, WvW, PvP, Raids, Fractals, you name it, is just straight up disheartening. The question arises, why play the content, when there is no reward for it? The game is called "Fashion Wars" by many for a reason, because there is no item progression - which is an interesting way to handle such a game btw., and not at all to my disliking! -, the only way to distinguish yourself from other players and to show that you earned something in the game is through visuals, a.k.a. skins. Just like any other animal, almost always a human aims to be, or at least feel, rewarded for what they do. Anyone can insert their credit card and buy a skin in the gem shop. It just shows who is more willing to waste their money on polygons and pixels, instead of putting in "hard work" in the form of skill and/or time.I straight up get the feeling that the "best looking" skins are put into the gem shop, while the few skins that are made available through normal gameplay are those of less interesting looks, just to be able to say "but look, you DO get rewards". There are some gem-walled (weapon) skins which look well enough, they could have just as well be made into legendaries.

But even at that, it would be much better if the things were at least available at all time. If you want something, you have to be lucky (?) for it to be available in the gem shop before you lose your interest in it again or find something better or different to replace it with.

Not to mention the abhorrent use of gambling in the form of black lion chests, which I do not think I need to further elaborate on, as we all know how many keys one can waste and not get anything of value. Things like these should really be outlawed, and I applaud those countries which did so. If only more governments acted against this, maybe game companies would end this practice.

The feeling that the game is only being kept alive longer for monetary gain, instead of because the developers enjoy creating the story and the content around it is creeping in more and more. The thought alone drains the fun every time it pops in my mind. Again, I do understand that the company wants to make profit off the game, but at point does it go too far?At what point outweighs the apathy in regard to balance, fixing and modernizing the game, and the lack of rewarding content and the lack of expansion and improvement of existing major game modes (WvW, anyone?), the ever-increasing focus on the gem shop and the ever more present issue of paywalling things that should have been in the game for free from the beginning (like templates...)?

I also understand that opinions may differ, that people may disagree. But I ask you to just take a step back for a moment and look at what is added to the gem store compared to what is added into the game directly, as rewards or improvements, before you put down your argument for why what Anet does is not wrong, for why it is not harming the game in the long run.

A new year has begun, and I know the game is not the youngest, but Anet has a choice to make - put energy into the game and make it feel like they do this for not just monetary, money-grabbing, reasons, or continue down the road they have been on and not wonder that the game slowly but surely dies more and more with each passing disappointing update.Put value into the actual game and not just into the gem shop. Improve and expand on the gameplay, add new features and so on. Keep the amount of gem shop stuff in balance with the things added to the game itself.

(I'm fully well aware that the issue has likely been brought up before, that there are more threads similar to this. Quantity is a quality of its own, as some say, and it is important to not let a major issue rest. I still care for the game enough, I still enjoy WvW too much to let go, but this has just been nagging in the back of my mind for the last few days, and I felt it worth my time to put down my thoughts in hopes that maybe, just maybe, someone at Anet might take it to heart and change the current course, as unlikely at that would be.)

[Brycar.2651]

@Dante.1763 said:

@Brycar.2651 said:

@Dante.1763 said:You can just buy gen 2 legendaries as well. Sure you still have to make the thing, but outside of OBI shards everything else can be purchased with gold or gems.

I just ground out gift of battle in wvw. I could have bought that? Ugh

Oh. Sorry. The one other item that you have to grind out. 95% of the weapon can be bought, as compared to Gen1 Legendaries where 100% of the weapon can be. But Mah prestigeeeee

Ha! Whew I thought I had researched it but could have mixed up. I am not the biggest fan of WVW but I do like that the developers get me to play WVW if I want the leggy. I realize I like it more than I thought I would.

[Dante.1763]

@Brycar.2651 said:

@Dante.1763 said:

@Brycar.2651 said:

@Dante.1763 said:You can just buy gen 2 legendaries as well. Sure you still have to make the thing, but outside of OBI shards everything else can be purchased with gold or gems.

I just ground out gift of battle in wvw. I could have bought that? Ugh

Oh. Sorry. The one other item that you have to grind out. 95% of the weapon can be bought, as compared to Gen1 Legendaries where 100% of the weapon can be. But Mah prestigeeeee

Ha! Whew I thought I had researched it but could have mixed up. I am not the biggest fan of WVW but I do like that the developers get me to play WVW if I want the leggy. I realize I like it more than I thought I would.

It used to be buyable, i miss those days.

Out of all the threads ive seen alot of WVW players get upset when PVE only players go to wvw, but if anyone mentions making the GOB buyable again(the main reason PVE players go to WVW) people freak out to because how else will those PVE players find out if they like wvw. -snort-

[Raknar.4735]

Fashionista Wars 2: Return of the Flashy equals fashionable, clothing boogaloo

There was a very similiar discussion yesterday, still on the frontpage: https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/95227/fashion-wars-is-becoming-unblanced/p1

Yes, it sucks that there aren't any mounts skins, barely any glider and chair skins to be earned ingame.

The template system is usefull for everyone that didn't use Arc Templates. It also increased the Bagspace. Build-bank and templates should be free, since they're just a glorified textfile, Armor-templates are fine, since they do add inventory space (But should be Accountwide in my opinion).

Dark Souls is often called Fashion Souls, because people ignore stats, instead they want to look good ingame and just mix and match items.Similiar thing applies to Guild Wars 2, it's called Fashion Wars 2 because of the many possibilities of creating a good-looking character. Gemstore items are mostly overly flashy and more often than not don't fit a character's theme. If you think stacking infusions and effects to be a walking lightbulb is the high-end of Fashion Wars, then I can see your point about those skins being the "best" skins.I myself am not a fan of overly flashy items, since they destroy a character's aesthetic most of the time. I'm more a fan of the new Dragonrender helmet and the Ebon Vanguard shoulders, which can be earned ingame, than the new BLTC Starborn Wings, which look horrendous on 85% of characters I've seen.

I couldn't care less about the prestige of some items, as long as their character looks good. Stacking celestial infusions, wearing the Dhuum helmet together with non fitting items or similiar things will not make me bat an eye.

The availability of Gem Store items is a marketing strategy called Artificial Scarcity, on one hand bad for the consumer, on the other hand it doesn't bloat the store (comparing this to the PoE store which is plenty bloated).

[IndigoSundown.5419]

@Dante.1763 said:

@Brycar.2651 said:

@Dante.1763 said:

@Brycar.2651 said:

@Dante.1763 said:You can just buy gen 2 legendaries as well. Sure you still have to make the thing, but outside of OBI shards everything else can be purchased with gold or gems.

I just ground out gift of battle in wvw. I could have bought that? Ugh

Oh. Sorry. The one other item that you have to grind out. 95% of the weapon can be bought, as compared to Gen1 Legendaries where 100% of the weapon can be. But Mah prestigeeeee

Ha! Whew I thought I had researched it but could have mixed up. I am not the biggest fan of WVW but I do like that the developers get me to play WVW if I want the leggy. I realize I like it more than I thought I would.

It used to be buyable, i miss those days.

Out of all the threads ive seen alot of WVW players get upset when PVE only players go to wvw, but if anyone mentions making the GOB buyable again(the main reason PVE players go to WVW) people freak out to because how else will those PVE players find out if they like wvw. -snort-

To be fair, new players coming to WvW is not what WvW players are complaining about. They're complaining about players coming to WvW with no intention to participate in WvW any more than they absolutely have to to get the X reward. You know, the players who make no attempt to understand what's going on, and who make no attempt to make anything approaching a meaningful contribution. These players can take up queue space in peak times (yeah, this still happens at reset and at other times mostly on EBG), serve as rally bots for the other side and inflate the enemy war score. Most WvW guilds and players would welcome new WvW players who have made some effort to learn.

Again to be fair, I'm not sure that the desire to keep GoB from being buyable is to entice players to WvW, it may be about keeping some commitment to WvW as a game mode relevant.

[Kaliwenda.3428]

I enjoy putting together my outfits from things I get in the game, it's a nice creative outlet for me.

I don't begrudge players who have store-bought pieces, I like seeing all the different looks and some are truly amazing!

I also don't think they've "won" something or are better than me in any way.

[whoeverxwins.1279]

@Dante.1763 said:

@Brycar.2651 said:

@Dante.1763 said:

@Brycar.2651 said:

@Dante.1763 said:You can just buy gen 2 legendaries as well. Sure you still have to make the thing, but outside of OBI shards everything else can be purchased with gold or gems.

I just ground out gift of battle in wvw. I could have bought that? Ugh

Oh. Sorry. The one other item that you have to grind out. 95% of the weapon can be bought, as compared to Gen1 Legendaries where 100% of the weapon can be. But Mah prestigeeeee

Ha! Whew I thought I had researched it but could have mixed up. I am not the biggest fan of WVW but I do like that the developers get me to play WVW if I want the leggy. I realize I like it more than I thought I would.

It used to be buyable, i miss those days.

Out of all the threads ive seen alot of WVW players get upset when PVE only players go to wvw, but if anyone mentions making the GOB buyable again(the main reason PVE players go to WVW) people freak out to because how else will those PVE players find out if they like wvw. -snort-

They are on the trading post. I had enough, but they are there.

[Dante.1763]

@whoeverxwins.1279 said:

@Dante.1763 said:

@Brycar.2651 said:

@Dante.1763 said:

@Brycar.2651 said:

@Dante.1763 said:You can just buy gen 2 legendaries as well. Sure you still have to make the thing, but outside of OBI shards everything else can be purchased with gold or gems.

I just ground out gift of battle in wvw. I could have bought that? Ugh

Oh. Sorry. The one other item that you have to grind out. 95% of the weapon can be bought, as compared to Gen1 Legendaries where 100% of the weapon can be. But Mah prestigeeeee

Ha! Whew I thought I had researched it but could have mixed up. I am not the biggest fan of WVW but I do like that the developers get me to play WVW if I want the leggy. I realize I like it more than I thought I would.

It used to be buyable, i miss those days.

Out of all the threads ive seen alot of WVW players get upset when PVE only players go to wvw, but if anyone mentions making the GOB buyable again(the main reason PVE players go to WVW) people freak out to because how else will those PVE players find out if they like wvw. -snort-

They are on the trading post. I had enough, but they are there.

Lol, no they arent. Gifts of Battle arent on the trading post, they are and always have been account bound on acquire.

[MoriMoriMori.5349]

If by "accomplishment" you mean hours of mindless grind invested, then I'm perfectly fine with them devaluating it (as if it had much value from the beginning). That's as much as accomplishment as me vacuuming my carpet 2 times a week. Should we start giving a medal to everybody doing this 3 times a week? Don't think so.

[Hope.6582]

Fashion depends on the eye that sees. Some like cute, some like sexy and some like dark themed fashion. There will never be a true winner. You don’t need gem store skins to create a good outfit.

Mine is a mix of both and I love what I made and thus to me I am the winner. And I know others find my fashion hideous cause I’m too cute. But that does not matter. others who created their fashion and love theirs also are winners. That’s what makes fashion wars great. It is not pay to win it is what you make it to be

[mindcircus.1506]

@"Zexanima.7851" said:Screw me for drawing parallels I guess. Here is my refactored argument:

"Fashion Wars" is a meme. A joke. A saying people used to use to try and be funny. The idea that the only endgame in GW2 is cosmetic is an ignorant statement that does a tremendous disservice to the breadth of content available. It completely invalidates almost 6 years of updates to this game.No one actually takes "Fashion Wars" seriously.Those who pretend to take "Fashion Wars" seriously enough to make a thread arguing about it's "balance" however are self serving. It's not like that they actually beleive the only endgame in GW2 is cosmetic, or that "Fashion Wars" is actually a thing. They are simply attempting to advance a narrative with imbecilic semantics in order to get their shinies for free.

Your refactored argument is, quite simply, trash on an ever-growing heap.

[Zaklex.6308]

@Zexanima.7851 said:

@"Ben K.6238" said:The "fashion wars" thing is a joke. You don't actually win by being more stylish.

If you have to move the goalposts for the argument to make sense, it's not much of an argument.

I'm not trying to argue or convince anyone of anything. Do you see me wearing a suit and standing on a stage trying to convince you to vote for me instead of the other guy because he's had an affair with multiple mistresses? No, this isn't a presidential debate, it's a forum discussion. Here is my refactored argument:

"Providing buyable skins that become on par with skins locked behind in game rewards invalidates the player effort required to obtain those in-game skins. This also chips away at the idea of prestige in the game as form of a progression ladder and curbs the idea of 'fashion' as a form of accomplishment."

You have fallen for the joke hook, line and sinker...the players came up with that joke to troll people, nothing more, nothing less, it's not real "endgame", it's not real at all except in some people's heads...that's all there is to it, don't look for a deeper meaning.