mrauls.6519 Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 For example, dragonhunter's Deflecting Shot will deal damage with a multiplier of .01. Deflecting Shot's damage is currently a decent chunk of DH's DPS. The DPS loss wasn't re-added anywhere. What happens if DH struggles to kill enemies because multiple skills had their multipliers brought down to .01, just because they provide a CC? It does make sense for some skills with CC's to do little to no damage, but some are actually important to the overall rotation. For example, I don't mind Spear of Justice having a .01 multiplier. It provides great functionality.What do you guys think?Edit: A great example I continuously see brought up is Warrior's hammer. 3/5 skills will have a multiplier of .01!Edit #2: A better choice would have been to reduce those skills' damage by 50%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeikeNz.3526 Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 I think thats good but they need to give sometrade off, lower cast or cd, some skills life reaper 5 have huge cast because of the dmg and cc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrauls.6519 Posted February 5, 2020 Author Share Posted February 5, 2020 @SeikeNz.3526 said:I think thats good but they need to give sometrade off, lowef cast or cdYeah, I wouldn't mind a lower CD or added functionality! I realize how important certain skills are for their damage. DPS is already being brought down by ~33% profession wide. Removing an entire skill's damage component can be killer. The current Deflecting Shot can knock off ~15% of a player's HP if it crits. If I lose that damage, I need something to help my other skills pump out enough DPS to compensate for it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choovanski.5462 Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 it's a good change. will have to use CC to set up dmg, not just kill someone with bull charge6k deflecting shot killing people is funny, but it's not healthy for the game tbh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrauls.6519 Posted February 5, 2020 Author Share Posted February 5, 2020 @"choovanski.5462" said:it's a good change. will have to use CC to set up dmg, not just kill someone with bull charge6k deflecting shot killing people is funny, but it's not healthy for the game tbhI agree, CC skills shouldn't "1 shot" someone, but for it to do close to 0 damage? If they had buffed True Shot's damage, maybeEdit: I've never seen a 6k deflecting shot in my life. The DH would have to be super glass to achieve that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choovanski.5462 Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 @"mrauls.6519" said:@"choovanski.5462" said:it's a good change. will have to use CC to set up dmg, not just kill someone with bull charge6k deflecting shot killing people is funny, but it's not healthy for the game tbhI agree, CC skills shouldn't "1 shot" someone, but for it to do close to 0 damage? If they had buffed True Shot's damage, maybeeveryone is getting damage reductions, and healing reductions. compared to the multipliers on most skills after patch, true shot still hits really hard. so does the auto, and so do the trapsconsidering you can insta kill with traps still, I think DH can suffer the loss of 6k deflecting shots. I know I'll still play a bit of meditrapper w my warrior post patch, I think it's gonna still be very strong tbhcc skills having big crits has never been a good thing about gw2. skills like hammer 5 on scrapper having any dmg at all has always been stupid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mortrialus.3062 Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 I'm just going to repost what what I said in the main balance thread. But generally speaking if it has a proper large wind up and a cooldown I don't think a big hit that also CC's is remotely a problem in the game mode. I do want to say that I understand the logic in nerfing CC skills heavily in the damage department, I think a lot of this is going too far with it to the point of ruining things like class identity.For example: Prime Light Beam. Prime Light Beam is one of my favorite utility skills to have to play against. It's really cool, it fits with Holosmith really well thematically and gameplay wise. If I dodge it, I always feel like I gained a huge advantage in the fight. If I get tagged with it, there's always a wave of panic.If I had any one complaint about the skill, the only thing I disliked was that it could be cast from stealth and since it has no projectile from stealth it is genuinely unavoidable. I really only wanted to see self revealed applied to the holosmith when they begin casting the skill so if they try to cast it from stealth I get to see the tell anyway.I was fine with the damage. I was fine with the CC. I was fine with the flavor. This applies to other elites like Dragon Maw, Head Butt, ect. ect. Even nonelites like Wild Blow and Big Ol Bomb. I think full on the point of balance patches is a massive increase in build diversity. We want to see MATs and one side might have a Greatsword/Dagger+Shield Spellbreaker on one side, and something that seems impossible with the current balance like a Hammer Berserker running Wild Blow. Hammer on warrior is all about having below average damage, little mobility, no defensive options but making up for it with heavy CC. If you do something like gut all the damage out of all the hammer skills that weapon kit will never be seen in game again. Like all the damage on the kit is gone I straight up think it will be outright impossible to score a single kill on any build ever if you have a weapon kit that literally just does not do damage the way you've done with warrior hammer now.Warrior hammer, especially considering how it's;Melee onlyNo movement skills outside of the modestly ranged burstHas very little range outside of the cripple shockwaveHas mediocre DPSRelies on it's high damage CC skills to actually do a reasonable amount of damageGoes to show how not entirely well thought out the idea of gutting all damage from CC skills is. You'd have to balance it around doing like 6-7k damage auto attacks for it to have any chance of killing any players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Za Shaloc.3908 Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 I think it's a healthy philosophy for weapon skills, but not for elite skills like Maw, PLB, Chilled to the Bone, Jade Winds, etc. I should clarify that this is a generalization, but there should be exceptions when it comes to things like Warrior's hammer that has a kit largely centered around CC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArthurDent.9538 Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 This philosophy is the main reason I think this patch is going to be awful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crepuscular.9047 Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 I certainly agree with where Cohen is going with this, making the skills more focused on its primary abilitybut rather nerf every CC skills' coefficients down to 0.1, i would like to see the base strength of the CC be accounted forthe stronger the CC the lower the coefficient, the weaker the CC the higher the coefficient is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stand The Wall.6987 Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 I don't see how they will recompense all the cc skills with out power creeping them in another way; i.e. increased functionality, lowered cast times, or lowered cds. seems like we will trade one type of broke for another. honestly 1 min stun break cds is kind of ridiculous when strong ccs are 1/2 or even 1/3 that, so maybe they don't change the cc skills at all. dunno man, dunno. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crab Fear.1624 Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 Yes The biggest offenders will always chain these skills and boom no counter play.Good fucking riddance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jobber.6348 Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 Because this is literally how SB Hammer is played right now.Bull Charge, Hammer 4, Hammer Burst, Hammer 5This CC chain does so much damage its obnoxious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevor Boyer.6524 Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 @"mrauls.6519" said:For example, dragonhunter's Deflecting Shot will deal damage with a multiplier of .01. Deflecting Shot's damage is currently a decent chunk of DH's DPS. The DPS loss wasn't re-added anywhere. What happens if DH struggles to kill enemies because multiple skills had their multipliers brought down to .01, just because they provide a CC? It does make sense for some skills with CC's to do little to no damage, but some are actually important to the overall rotation. For example, I don't mind Spear of Justice having a .01 multiplier. It provides great functionality.What do you guys think?I think that starting their new baseline balance point with hard CCs dealing 50% of the damage they deal now, would be a lot better than nuking all hard CCs into no damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blocki.4931 Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 @mortrialus.3062 said:snip100% with you on the Hammer build. It's also weird that they emphasize that Hammer 5 -> 2 combo by also allowing the 5 to refresh the 2 with the upcoming changes, while everything, including the Hammer 2, just lost all of the damage on it.I propose: GIve it a finisher! We need more of those. Finish downstates instantly, single target. Fits the theme too. I'll never stop saying this, but more big hit finishers that don't involve pressing F, but actual gameplay and choice of either using a skill during a fight or finishing it to literally finish somebody off needs to become more of a thing while we are at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quadox.7834 Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 But does hammer need so many CCs? Cant we change hanmer 4 to a spin that does damage (similar to scrapper hammer 2) and gives protection for successful hit? Or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrauls.6519 Posted February 6, 2020 Author Share Posted February 6, 2020 @Quadox.7834 said:But does hammer need so many CCs? Cant we change hanmer 4 to a spin that does damage (similar to scrapper hammer 2) and gives protection for successful hit? Or something.Warrior hammer does have a ton of CC's. Still, I think it's crazy for 3/5 of the weapon skills to have a multiplier of .01. I wouldn't even want to use that weapon in PvP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddbopkins.2630 Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 I'm totally fine with this. Considering what bulls charge is capable of(massive damage, long cc, gap closer, leap combo) it doesn't need the damage or the leap combo imo. And nearly all hard cc moves do massive damage. Cc moves should be a set up for bigger combos not the finisher or as a damage contributor, but a setup/utilities.As far as hammer goes it already had no play time in PvP so nothing will change there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tayga.3192 Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 Rework hammer, buff elitesCya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
otto.5684 Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 Talking about DS, the skill already requires aiming and setup. It’s damage was buffed recently by 80% cuz the risk and the reward of the skill we’re completely out of whack. To an extent it is still a bit under powered. Now Anet removes the damage and adds and additional 0.5 sec cast time. I gurantee you whoever made the change to this skill (as they majority of the balance changes) had no idea what the skill is or does. You would be an absolute moron if you ever even attempt to use this skill in sPvP.This goes to many of these weapon changes. Like warrior hammer and mace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zexanima.7851 Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 No, but it’s just a start on balancing. They are just establishing a base line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tharan.9085 Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 The change isnt that bad considering everything got nerfed and test of faith dmg got buffed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alin.2468 Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 When it comes to PvP, I consider crowd control the most delicate subject. This is because many people love to disable enemies, and hate to be disabled then demolished. Removing all damage from crowd control is the greatest and most awesome modification Anet made to PvP in the last 7 years (since release). If a player just comes to match to apply crowd controls in chains, then that player should deal no damage, and instead his partners should do that for him, creating coordination. This is actually great tactic; now if we only had teams.Thank you Arenanet for keeping crowd controls under surveillance, and for removing damage from CC abilities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonidrex.5649 Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 they could have made CC skills never crit and go from there.there is nothing wrong for being hit for 2k with CC skill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthernRedStar.3054 Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 @otto.5684 said:Talking about DS, the skill already requires aiming and setup. It’s damage was buffed recently by 80% cuz the risk and the reward of the skill we’re completely out of whack. To an extent it is still a bit under powered. Now Anet removes the damage and adds and additional 0.5 sec cast time. I gurantee you whoever made the change to this skill (as they majority of the balance changes) had no idea what the skill is or does. You would be an absolute moron if you ever even attempt to use this skill in sPvP.This goes to many of these weapon changes. Like warrior hammer and mace. Agreed. While the reasoning behind their attempted changes are 'cute', the skill itself will be completely out of competitive viability until it's reverted or changed further in the unforeseeable future. DH's bow damage is low as it stands, and their missile speed is, correct me if I'm wrong, lower than ranger's longbow. With all of their skills more telegraphed than any of warrior's, how on earth are they supposed to deal damage outside trap cheese? None of the traits will be able to save this clunky mess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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