Thief still hitting for 5k

[Bunny.9834]

whats next 1k crit?

[Burnfall.9573]

@DeceiverX.8361 said:

@Burnfall.9573 said:

@"appelflap.8310" said:I was a mesmer main since day 1 and im tired of thiefs still dominating in wvw roaming, so now i play thief myself.

I would suggest to just make a thief and play it, its way easier to play then mesmer have been

. I mean how can you die with 3 dodges, sig of agility, roll for initiative, withdraw and on top of that you can permastealth. Oh dont forget you heal, remove condis when you evade an attack. Get even more condi cleanse and healing when in stealth if you traited shadow arts wich all thiefs do anyways to get perma stealth. All this while backstabbing mesmers or zerk specs for 10-13k (sometimes even more) lol. Want an even easier time? Go play deadeye, even after patch this build is broken. There is a reason why you only see thieves in wvw roaming..

yet anet seems to dont care.

+1

(+1 shotting included...yes even after recent 'balance' patch)

-

current build variations included

-

-Bad Design Can Not Be Balanced-

Redesign Is The Only Way

I cringe at some of the play by the opponents in that video to be honest.

That last reaper may actually take the spot for the single worst reaper I've ever seen.

i never blame players but the profession itself. Thief Profession Toxic Design is to be blamed because a non-condition base profession shouldn't never outperform a pure condition base profession...reaper or not...Necromancer Profession is its base core.

it is like putting a bicycle against a motorcycle and having it outperform the motorcycle speed.....that would be unheard in a competitive scenery but in the world of Guild Wars 2 'competitive' scenery, Everything is true=possible!!

BAD DESIGN IS BAD DESIGN!!

---

-Necromancer Should Be The Strongest Condition Damage Dealer Profession In The Game Because That Is Their Root Core!!!!-

Nor Thief, Elementalist, Ranger, Warrior, Engineer Profession should ever be capable to resist their conditions

Guardian/Monk being the only Profession who is capable of cleaning all of Necromancer Professions conditions and Mesmer being the only Profession having the power to stop Necromancer conditions from ever casting

Restore Condition'Removes all conditions. Removal effect: heals for 10...58...70 for each condition removed.'https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Restore_Condition

Blackout'You can use this skill as an interrupt, since any skill being activated by the target when he is blacked out will fail at the end of the skill's activation time'https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Blackout

[Qaju.2058]

It's like you're stuck in gw1 and never accepted gw2. It's 2020 and some of us even moved on from gw2.Why do you constantly feel the need to deny the right for arenanet to have the freedom to design the gw2 game as they see fit?

[Burnfall.9573]

@"aleron.1438" said:It's like you're stuck in gw1 and never accepted gw2. It's 2020 and some of us even moved on from gw2.Why do you constantly feel the need to deny the right for arenanet to have the freedom to design the gw2 game as they see fit?

It all begins here

[Sobx.1758]

@Burnfall.9573 said:

@DeceiverX.8361 said:

@Burnfall.9573 said:

@"appelflap.8310" said:I was a mesmer main since day 1 and im tired of thiefs still dominating in wvw roaming, so now i play thief myself.

I would suggest to just make a thief and play it, its way easier to play then mesmer have been

. I mean how can you die with 3 dodges, sig of agility, roll for initiative, withdraw and on top of that you can permastealth. Oh dont forget you heal, remove condis when you evade an attack. Get even more condi cleanse and healing when in stealth if you traited shadow arts wich all thiefs do anyways to get perma stealth. All this while backstabbing mesmers or zerk specs for 10-13k (sometimes even more) lol. Want an even easier time? Go play deadeye, even after patch this build is broken. There is a reason why you only see thieves in wvw roaming..

yet anet seems to dont care.

+1

(+1 shotting included...yes even after recent 'balance' patch)

-

current build variations included

-

-Bad Design Can Not Be Balanced-

Redesign Is The Only Way

I cringe at some of the play by the opponents in that video to be honest.

That last reaper may actually take the spot for the single worst reaper I've ever seen.

i never blame players but the profession itself. Thief Profession Toxic Design is to be blamed because a non-condition base profession shouldn't never outperform a pure condition base profession...reaper or not...Necromancer Profession is its base core.

it is like putting a bicycle against a motorcycle and having it outperform the motorcycle speed.....that would be unheard in a competitive scenery but in the world of Guild Wars 2 '

competitive

' scenery, Everything is true=possible!!

BAD DESIGN IS BAD DESIGN!!

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1183212/#Comment_1183212

So you've made a similar post in another thread yesterday, including the irrelevant, illogical and inadequate metaphor (except you've used "mach6/1 aircraft" instead of "bicycle/motorcycle"), but after getting asked in what way it makes any sense in your mind, you decide to drop that thread and come to this one instead to write... pretty much the same thing again?

You're trying to claim a condi build should win over a power build simply based on the type of damage they deal -that makes no sense in the slightest. Apparently you just want to have untouchable tank condi builds that are unable to lose a fight. And you try to claim it's a bad design because something like that didn't happen in the vid you've posted? :lol:Obviously saying "bad design is bad design" is true by definition, the problem here is that you don't understand what "bad design" actually is.

And by what logic exactly are you calling condi build "a motorcycle", while power build "a bicycle"?

[Yasai.3549]

Thief needs to be given Rev's Energy system and feel the pain of using a few skills and basically having everything on yur loadout go onto a global cooldown because yu went totally dry.

Let's increase all of Thief's Ini costs by 3.

Oh and all their Utilities cost 2 Ini too.

[Sobx.1758]

@"Yasai.3549" said:Thief needs to be given Rev's Energy system and feel the pain of using a few skills and basically having everything on yur loadout go onto a global cooldown because yu went totally dry.

Let's increase all of Thief's Ini costs by 3.

You might want to check the patch history for thief ini skills. Not just the latest one.

Oh and all their Utilities cost 2 Ini too.

No problem, just don't forget to give it an additional button that flips the whole bar while refilling said "ini".It's almost as if both of these energy systems have their own pros and cons.

[Yasai.3549]

@"Sobx.1758" said:-snip-

I was totally joking lol.But if yu want my actual opinion : Ini system is pretty busted given the amount of traits that exist that can basically trivialize the Ini "ammo system" as a limiting mechanic.

I think the best way to balance Thief's Ini system is a straight nerf bat to all traits that help regenerate Ini.I think Ini utilities are fine though.

If I were to nerf things I'll probably target stuff like :

• Shadow's Rejuvenation
• Kleptomaniac
• Upper Hand (maybe not, but then again, DD has plenty of evades)

[UNOwen.7132]

@Yasai.3549 said:Thief needs to be given Rev's Energy system and feel the pain of using a few skills and basically having everything on yur loadout go onto a global cooldown because yu went totally dry.

Yes. Because that totally isnt already how Thief works. With proportionally much higher resource costs, and slower resource regeneration (rev regenerates half his bar in 10 seconds, thief in 10.5-13 seconds), and without the ability to instantly refresh energy just by swapping Legends.

Let's increase all of Thief's Ini costs by 3.

Thieves initiative costs are already too high to the point that thief is forced to pick Trickery or M7 in every single build. If anything, thieves initiative costs need to be reduced right now.

Oh and all their Utilities cost 2 Ini too.

[UNOwen.7132]

@Yasai.3549 said:

@"Sobx.1758" said:-snip-

I was totally joking lol.But if yu want my actual opinion : Ini system is pretty busted given the amount of traits that exist that can basically trivialize the Ini "ammo system" as a limiting mechanic.

None of them trivialise it. They at best mitigate it, but even then they really dont. Its not like Rev where you just swap Legends and your energy is refilled.

I think the best way to balance Thief's Ini system is a straight nerf bat to all traits that help regenerate Ini.I think Ini utilities are fine though.

If I were to nerf things I'll probably target stuff like :

• Shadow's Rejuvenation
• Kleptomaniac
• Upper Hand (maybe not, but then again, DD has plenty of evades)

Noone uses the first, the second is basically mandatory due to how high initiative costs are (though I wouldnt mind it or Trickery as a whole being changed if initiative costs go down to compensate), and the third one is not really being used either.

[KrHome.1920]

15k DJ yesterday in wvw. I was on marauder gear... 1 malice for the mark, not more... no vulnerability on me... a bit too much for my taste. On max toughness that DJ would still have hit for 8k and the target would hit like a wet noodle and not be able to seriously fight back.

That deadeye should die from a sneeze, when you are not a bunker yourself. The problem is when you eat such an opener you have better things to do than fighting back and die from his second random hit.

My health pool and running away with speed rune saved me in that specific situation. Fighting back would have been pointless.

[kash.9213]

@KrHome.1920 said:15k DJ yesterday in wvw. I was on marauder gear... 1 malice for the mark, not more... no vulnerability on me... a bit too much for my taste. On max toughness that DJ would still have hit for 8k and the target would hit like a wet noodle and not be able to seriously fight back.

That deadeye should die from a sneeze, when you are not a bunker yourself. The problem is when you eat such an opener you have better things to do than fighting back and die from his second random hit.

My health pool and running away with speed rune saved me in that specific situation. Fighting back would have been pointless.

Sounds like things worked out. I'm sure they're glad you didn't hit back but that probably was the right time to hit back with something big.

[Turkeyspit.3965]

@UNOwen.7132 said:thats why you see so many Mesmers and not nearly as many thieves.

No, damage isn't the reason for that...hueueue

[Enduronex.4865]

I think it's more so the damage modifiers deadeye has access to that synergy way too much with their access to stealth.

[Klypto.1703]

There is one thing that makes people come up with these nerf thief, balance thief, rework thief, etc. Thief player is one that usually at the mercy of being greatly outnumbered and always forced to adapt to a situation. As per the person complaining they never adapt and they never learn anything except on how quickly anet caves in to their demands. I've killed players with this new meta that they are so tanky that I might can do like 2k damage to them with AA chain attack and if I backstab them I'll do something amusing like 300 damage and that as a malicious attack. So if you cannot survive with near or over 100% damage mitigation in this meta this just isn't the game for you.

[UNOwen.7132]

@KrHome.1920 said:15k DJ yesterday in wvw. I was on marauder gear... 1 malice for the mark, not more... no vulnerability on me... a bit too much for my taste. On max toughness that DJ would still have hit for 8k and the target would hit like a wet noodle and not be able to seriously fight back.

That deadeye should die from a sneeze, when you are not a bunker yourself. The problem is when you eat such an opener you have better things to do than fighting back and die from his second random hit.

My health pool and running away with speed rune saved me in that specific situation. Fighting back would have been pointless.

Thats ... simply not possible. That DJ wouldve had a damage scaling of 1.28. That means you wouldve taken more damage from a Warriors Rush. Either they had much more than 1 malice, you had a ton of vulnerability, or your gear wasnt up to snuff. Even with the glassiest DE build, with all the modifiers stacked perfectly, against the glassiest Ele build, with no toughness, defense or anything, fully stacked Sigil of Bloodlust and assassins signet, I could not get it higher than 11k. And that even required you already being below 50% for both Executioner and Rune of the Eagle to kick in.

[XenesisII.1540]

@Safandula.8723 said:I love all the mesmers taking voice in thief threads <3

I love all the other 8 classes taking voice in thief threads <3

[Andy.5981]

Only 5k you say? Pfft

I was in the process of capturing a sentry point near O'Del Academy on DBL yesterday afternoon when I got struck with a15k and a 11K hit out of stealth. With the other 'add on' damage I dropped instantly and died to their F skill.

Not 100% sure which way around they were but one was a Heartseeker and one a Malcious Backstab.

Absolutely no view of the Thief approaching and bam.

This on a SB with full ascended Marauder armour and trinkets. Equipment and runes etc are as per the standard Metabattle 'Sic em' Roamer, so Superior rune of durability.

Not particularly bothered tbh, went back to spawn and continued my roaming. Am I complaining? - nope, its down to Anet to decide whether or not this is acceptable or not.

[kash.9213]

@Andy.5981 said:Only 5k you say? Pfft

I was in the process of capturing a sentry point near O'Del Academy on DBL yesterday afternoon when I got struck with a15k and a 11K hit out of stealth. With the other 'add on' damage I dropped instantly and died to their F skill.

Not 100% sure which way around they were but one was a Heartseeker and one a Malcious Backstab.

Absolutely no view of the Thief approaching and bam.

This on a SB with full ascended Marauder armour and trinkets. Equipment and runes etc are as per the standard Metabattle 'Sic em' Roamer, so Superior rune of durability.

Not particularly bothered tbh, went back to spawn and continued my roaming. Am I complaining? - nope, its down to Anet to decide whether or not this is acceptable or not.

Your combat log should show you which order it was, but both are bringing them out of stealth so likely the Malicious backstab would hit you first, but that's 15k, sadly no combat log for you to show, for an MBS with no malice buildup and no other hits, not even Steal, to make sure you're opened up for everything they want to hit you with. If that thief really did come out of nowhere with no chance to build malice but still tagged you for 15k, again out of nowhere, that would definitely be a problem.

[Andy.5981]

@kash.9213 said:

@Andy.5981 said:Only 5k you say? Pfft

I was in the process of capturing a sentry point near O'Del Academy on DBL yesterday afternoon when I got struck with a15k and a 11K hit out of stealth. With the other 'add on' damage I dropped instantly and died to their F skill.

Not 100% sure which way around they were but one was a Heartseeker and one a Malcious Backstab.

Absolutely no view of the Thief approaching and bam.

This on a SB with full ascended Marauder armour and trinkets. Equipment and runes etc are as per the standard Metabattle 'Sic em' Roamer, so Superior rune of durability.

Not particularly bothered tbh, went back to spawn and continued my roaming. Am I complaining? - nope, its down to Anet to decide whether or not this is acceptable or not.

Your combat log should show you which order it was, but both are bringing them out of stealth so likely the Malicious backstab would hit you first, but that's 15k, sadly no combat log for you to show, for an MBS with no malice buildup and no other hits, not even Steal, to make sure you're opened up for everything they want to hit you with. If that thief really did come out of nowhere with no chance to build malice but still tagged you for 15k, again out of nowhere, that would definitely be a problem.

Yes sorry no screenshot, not really in the habit of doing that. I couldn't say for certain which was which, but they were both definitely a MBS and a HS. Genuinely didn't see them coming since I'd been through the NW corner capturing supply camp and had then headed to the Sentry near O'Dels and had no sighting of any thief. As I said, not for me to say if this is right or wrong, that's Anet's problem, but it is possible to do.

[KrHome.1920]

@Klypto.1703 said:There is one thing that makes people come up with these nerf thief, balance thief, rework thief, etc. Thief player is one that usually at the mercy of being greatly outnumbered and always forced to adapt to a situation. As per the person complaining they never adapt and they never learn anything except on how quickly anet caves in to their demands. I've killed players with this new meta that they are so tanky that I might can do like 2k damage to them with AA chain attack and if I backstab them I'll do something amusing like 300 damage and that as a malicious attack. So if you cannot survive with near or over 100% damage mitigation in this meta this just isn't the game for you.Thieves are favored in this state of the game because they can ignore counter attacks of targets that are tanky. So there is less risk for the reward than before. That's what I was talking about in my posting above.

You go either full glass to be able to pressure the thief, but then nothing changed for the thief compared to before the patch. He can still one- or two-shot. 15k DJ now, 25k DJ before the patch... it's still enough. If you gear for defense you will never be able to kill the thief because then your own burst can barely hit for 5k and he can play mindgames with you forever. The worst thing for him is that you outheal his damage. But no way that he might lose the fight.

Did you actually notice how much the damage of most burst skills was nerfed? Grave Digger: 3 to 5k critical hit - huge cast time and telegraph. A full Soul Spiral: 6 to 8k - over a 2s duration. These values are for marauder gear, which eats 15k DJs from range while being immobilized.

Thief bursts are exceptions that have to be looked at, just like some ranger skills. Both classes have tons of multipliers that break certain skills.

[Sobx.1758]

@KrHome.1920 said:

@Klypto.1703 said:There is one thing that makes people come up with these nerf thief, balance thief, rework thief, etc. Thief player is one that usually at the mercy of being greatly outnumbered and always forced to adapt to a situation. As per the person complaining they never adapt and they never learn anything except on how quickly anet caves in to their demands. I've killed players with this new meta that they are so tanky that I might can do like 2k damage to them with AA chain attack and if I backstab them I'll do something amusing like 300 damage and that as a malicious attack. So if you cannot survive with near or over 100% damage mitigation in this meta this just isn't the game for you.Thieves are favored in this state of the game because they can ignore counter attacks of targets that are tanky. So there is less risk for the reward than before. That's what I was talking about in my posting above.

You go either full glass to be able to pressure the thief, but then nothing changed for the thief compared to before the patch. He can still one- or two-shot. 15k DJ now, 25k DJ before the patch... it's still enough. If you gear for defense you will never be able to kill the thief because then your own burst can barely hit for 5k and he can play mindgames with you forever. The worst thing for him is that you outheal his damage. But no way that he might lose the fight.

Did you actually notice how much the damage of most burst skills was nerfed? Grave Digger: 3 to 5k critical hit - huge cast time and telegraph. A full Soul Spiral: 6 to 8k - over a 2s duration. These values are for marauder gear, which eats 15k DJs from range while being immobilized.

Thief bursts are exceptions that have to be looked at, just like some ranger skills. Both classes have tons of multipliers that break certain skills.

They're not really exceptions, they got nerfed like other skills did. The thief wasn't isolated in those dmg numbers before the patch and if he can still do it, then so can those other classes.

[kash.9213]

@Andy.5981 said:

@kash.9213 said:

@Andy.5981 said:Only 5k you say? Pfft

I was in the process of capturing a sentry point near O'Del Academy on DBL yesterday afternoon when I got struck with a15k and a 11K hit out of stealth. With the other 'add on' damage I dropped instantly and died to their F skill.

Not 100% sure which way around they were but one was a Heartseeker and one a Malcious Backstab.

Absolutely no view of the Thief approaching and bam.

This on a SB with full ascended Marauder armour and trinkets. Equipment and runes etc are as per the standard Metabattle 'Sic em' Roamer, so Superior rune of durability.

Not particularly bothered tbh, went back to spawn and continued my roaming. Am I complaining? - nope, its down to Anet to decide whether or not this is acceptable or not.

Your combat log should show you which order it was, but both are bringing them out of stealth so likely the Malicious backstab would hit you first, but that's 15k, sadly no combat log for you to show, for an MBS with no malice buildup and no other hits, not even Steal, to make sure you're opened up for everything they want to hit you with. If that thief really did come out of nowhere with no chance to build malice but still tagged you for 15k, again out of nowhere, that would definitely be a problem.

Yes sorry no screenshot, not really in the habit of doing that. I couldn't say for certain which was which, but they were both definitely a MBS and a HS. Genuinely didn't see them coming since I'd been through the NW corner capturing supply camp and had then headed to the Sentry near O'Dels and had no sighting of any thief. As I said,

not for me to say

if this is right or wrong, that's Anet's problem, but it is possible to do.

It is for you to say though, you claim they came out of stealth and hit instantly with a 15k MBS with no modifiers or actions leading it like boon steal or anything. Given, I know sometimes so much is hitting me at the same time the combat log doesn't pick up everything. If that actually happened like you say then MBS needs to be dealt with, hopefully normal Backstab doesn't take the heat for it this time around.

[Andy.5981]

@kash.9213 said:

@Andy.5981 said:

@kash.9213 said:

@Andy.5981 said:Only 5k you say? Pfft

I was in the process of capturing a sentry point near O'Del Academy on DBL yesterday afternoon when I got struck with a15k and a 11K hit out of stealth. With the other 'add on' damage I dropped instantly and died to their F skill.

Not 100% sure which way around they were but one was a Heartseeker and one a Malcious Backstab.

Absolutely no view of the Thief approaching and bam.

This on a SB with full ascended Marauder armour and trinkets. Equipment and runes etc are as per the standard Metabattle 'Sic em' Roamer, so Superior rune of durability.

Not particularly bothered tbh, went back to spawn and continued my roaming. Am I complaining? - nope, its down to Anet to decide whether or not this is acceptable or not.

Your combat log should show you which order it was, but both are bringing them out of stealth so likely the Malicious backstab would hit you first, but that's 15k, sadly no combat log for you to show, for an MBS with no malice buildup and no other hits, not even Steal, to make sure you're opened up for everything they want to hit you with. If that thief really did come out of nowhere with no chance to build malice but still tagged you for 15k, again out of nowhere, that would definitely be a problem.

Yes sorry no screenshot, not really in the habit of doing that. I couldn't say for certain which was which, but they were both definitely a MBS and a HS. Genuinely didn't see them coming since I'd been through the NW corner capturing supply camp and had then headed to the Sentry near O'Dels and had no sighting of any thief. As I said,

not for me to say

if this is right or wrong, that's Anet's problem, but it is possible to do.

It is for you to say though, you claim they came out of stealth and hit instantly with a 15k MBS with no modifiers or actions leading it like boon steal or anything. Given, I know sometimes so much is hitting me at the same time the combat log doesn't pick up everything. If that actually happened like you say then MBS needs to be dealt with, hopefully normal Backstab doesn't take the heat for it this time around.

Not a claim. It happened. I'm sure if a passing Balance Dev wanted to inspect my combat logs for the 10th March they could do and would see what happened. It was out of stealth and it was 15k and 11k.

I dont think you understand what I was saying with regard to "not for me to say if this is right or wrong". I really couldn't care less what people are hitting for, that's Anet's problem not mine. I have no control over what they want classes to do. It's a game, I just play it. I dont play the "nerf it/buff it game". My post was purely to illustrate that the OP's 5k is really peanuts compared to what can still happen.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

I'm not sure what the DE's doing to pop those numbers but on a zerk/eagle CS/trickery/dd with steal and assassin sig popped I usually get numbers in the 5600 range and have got close to 9k while boon'd up from teammates and using DA/CS/DD with executioner but being ini starved the loss of the preparedness trait isn't worth it for me. I'd love those numbers tho, I'm jelly.