Season 1 missions NOT playable without icebrood saga = very bad for new comers

[Eloc Freidon.5692]

Integrating it to the Scrying Pool will be an immense mistake in the long run. A bandaid to just letting us go to the location where the mission is and just doing it there. Unless they want to add daily rewards to them for crystals. I'd prefer that as an alt method to farm this stuff to Strike missions.

[Stelawrat.6589]

A bit off topic, but for anyone interested in some background information for LW Season 1, awhile ago I found a reference to a YouTube video regarding that here in the forum:

I recently leveled a character to 80 & prior to speaking to the NPC for the in game "intro", I watched that video. I'm warning you now that it's long, over 3 hours, but if the story line, the lore is important to you, then I feel that it's worth it. It definitely made subsequent game play more meaningful.

[Obtena.7952]

Just being frank here ... why does a game that's 8 YO care about new players? Do people honestly think there are a huge influx of new players waiting in the wings here ... just waiting for ... SOMETHING to pick up the game and dump dollars into purchasing gems? ... and that they would even care about not being able to play this very specific content when they did adopt the game?

Um .. I don't see it.

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

@Obtena.7952 said:Just being frank here ... why does a game that's 8 YO care about new players? Do people honestly think there are a huge influx of new players waiting in the wings here ... just waiting for ... SOMETHING to pick up the game and dump dollars into purchasing gems? ... and that they would even care about not being able to play this very specific content when they did adopt the game?

Um .. I don't see it.

They literally just did a second New Player Experience update a few weeks ago.

[Obtena.7952]

@Hannelore.8153 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:Just being frank here ... why does a game that's 8 YO care about new players? Do people honestly think there are a huge influx of new players waiting in the wings here ... just waiting for ... SOMETHING to pick up the game and dump dollars into purchasing gems? ... and that they would even care about not being able to play this very specific content when they did adopt the game?

Um .. I don't see it.

They literally just did a second New Player Experience update a few weeks ago.

OK and? That doesn't change my post or the questions in it, at all. If Anet thinks the future of this game is the horde of new players waiting to adopt the game because of something it doesn't already have to make them join now, I would be REALLY interested in hearing how that logic works. Pretty sure the barrier wasn't fixing a NPE that anyone with 2 brain cells could zip through in 10 minutes.

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

As for people saying it was low content in those missions; I disagree. Remember, these aren't meant to be stand-alone; there's also a whole bunch of Fractals that go with them, the summary of Scarlet's War from the NPC, lots of exposition in LS2, etc.

The only thing that was really missing is meeting the characters, and while that could've been done better, this is acceptible. Most of their character development happens in later seasons, its just that not knowing who they were created a very abrupt transition from Personal Story to Living World Season 2, and having these missions (which I assume is just half of them, since it didn't cover everyone), helps alot.

I am very happy that ArenaNet made the effort for such dated content!

The only thing I would change and (and I know its unlikely due to man-hours), would be to combine the Scrying Pool instances, the Fractal instances, and all the other tidbits of LS1 into a streamlined Story Journal entry, because right now its all over the place.

[Durzlla.6295]

I had assumed they would have just tied the LW1 missions straight into the NPC that gives the recap, so new players can at the very least get a short little lore blurb and then do a few missions so they can see where Destiny's Orphans all came from.

Hopefully they change it to not be exclusively from the scrying pool.

[Boogiepop Void.6473]

Season 1 needs top be put in the story journal where it is supposed to go, not this way. The awkward way this is incorporated is not only not fixing up the story journal, it's off in the side where people won't even notice it later on.

[Substance E.4852]

@ShroomOneUp.6913 said:

@"Substance E.4852" said:I really don't get the whole obsession with experiencing S1's story

It's just one giant plot explaining how Scarlet built a huge drill to poke a ley line and wake up Mordremoth. Much of the combat gameplay is just us dealing with the shenanigans of the races she worked with to form her plan. The tower of nightmares had nothing to do with Mord or the rest of the story and was just a cool set piece that the krait built so scarlet could get their toxins for her LA siege. Same for all the dredge stuff.

It wasn't very engaging and ultimately felt like a waste of time when she succeeds, dies in the end, and we just end up progressing to the real "boss" with much of the explanation of what the kitten was happening occurring in s2 when we find out about the sylvari's true nature

It also features a lot of Rox who just ends up being largely written out of the story anyway

it serves as basis to even know who brahm taimi and rox and co are. most new players get shot into season two barely knowing who those weirdos are and are expected to accept and tolerate those to follow you almost every step of your way

Braham doesn't have any real character development until HoT, Taimi just hangs around until S2, and Rox isn't a full character

You can't miss out on what isn't there.

You can also just read the wiki for a quick rundown on the events if you want. You might think that's not enough but keep in mind that we're supposed to care about who Snaff was and the events with Logan prior to the game and those all only exist in a novel

[Artenyx.1602]

I was expecting s1 stuff to be available right after personal story as well :anguished: I still have no idea who kasmeer is other than she is a noble? or marjory (is she kasmeer's lover)? I trudged through season 2 feeling like I'm missing something and right now I stopped playing story in the middle of HoT XD

[Xynxycs.6718]

Season 1 should come after the personal story and after season 2. New players will be turned off by this bizarre decision, plus putting the next step of their story RIGHT NEXT TO THE BIGGEST PoF SPOILER? Why are they even bothering to make a story oriented game?

[Merrex.5384]

I do not understand why I have to purchase the POF expansion to play Season 1 story which was pre-expansion content.

[ShroomOneUp.6913]

@"Substance E.4852" said:

Braham doesn't have any real character development until HoT, Taimi just hangs around until S2, and Rox isn't a full character

You can't miss out on what isn't there.

You can also just read the wiki for a quick rundown on the events if you want. You might think that's not enough but keep in mind that we're supposed to care about who Snaff was and the events with Logan prior to the game and those all only exist in a novel

its not about character development but more about " WHO THE FUDGE ARE THESE GUYS?"

and "just reading it up" comes way to close to disney fixing the "rise fo skywalker" post mortem

which is faulty analogy as destinies edges adventures happened without "the commander" and thus do not need to be fully detailed in the games story, however we get enough information naturally through game play (and yes i know some of it is part of dungeons but back then you got messaged to go to the story paths of them before they implemented the first " new player experience")season one is literally what the commander went through so it should be playable as such

[Danikat.8537]

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Hannelore.8153 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:Just being frank here ... why does a game that's 8 YO care about new players? Do people honestly think there are a huge influx of new players waiting in the wings here ... just waiting for ... SOMETHING to pick up the game and dump dollars into purchasing gems? ... and that they would even care about not being able to play this very specific content when they did adopt the game?

Um .. I don't see it.

They literally just did a second New Player Experience update a few weeks ago.

OK and? That doesn't change my post or the questions in it, at all. If Anet thinks the future of this game is the horde of new players waiting to adopt the game because of something it doesn't already have to make them join now, I would be REALLY interested in hearing how that logic works. Pretty sure the barrier wasn't fixing a NPE that anyone with 2 brain cells could zip through in 10 minutes.

No, I don't think they're waiting to start playing. The Players Helping Players section fairly regularly gets posts and topics from people saying they're new to the game and need help with something or other, and it's not uncommon to see people in the starter maps and cities who say they're new to the game. So I don't think it's a matter of trying to attract potential new players (who are unlikely to understand or care about technicalities like the chronological order of releases or where to get new equipment until after they've started playing), I think it's an effort to address problems faced by the ones who are already here. And in the case of Season 1, an effort to give existing players something many of us have been asking for since about a month after launch - as soon as Anet announced their plan was for lots of tempoary releases which wouldn't stick around players started asking them to make it permanently available instead.

For what it's worth my impression is that the MMO market has gotten a lot quieter over the last few years. It used to be that people were always talking about the next 'big' MMO to come out (usually in the context of how all the others must rush out a big release to beat it or everyone would quit for the new game, which of course never happened), now we can go for months without that coming up.

So people who are looking for a new MMO to play are less likely to find one which is genuinely new, more likely just new to them. In that context a game known for minimal level and gear progression might look very appealing because it will be much easier to catch up with long-term players. Also so many of those new MMOs which came out failed relatively quickly that a game which has been going for 8 years and is still releasing new content might seem like a safer choice.

[ShroomOneUp.6913]

@"Stelawrat.6589" said:A bit off topic, but for anyone interested in some background information for LW Season 1, awhile ago I found a reference to a YouTube video regarding that here in the forum:

I recently leveled a character to 80 & prior to speaking to the NPC for the in game "intro", I watched that video. I'm warning you now that it's long, over 3 hours, but if the story line, the lore is important to you, then I feel that it's worth it. It definitely made subsequent game play more meaningful.

as good as the effort is the people, mostly wooden potatoes and CO also wanted and still do want season one to be playable directly after zhaitan. this project was if anything a necessary place holder

[Astralporing.1957]

@Kurrilino.2706 said:Dear OP,

This is the Ice Brood Saga Episode 2.Thechnically, it is Visions of the Past, a separate content that happens to be released in between IBS episodes, but is in itself not an IBS episode or part of one. It is just locked behind Icebrood Saga.

And yes, access to LS1 should not require playing a content that is chronologically placed much later. Because it means that the old problem of players following the story hitting a big storyline continuity hole in between core and LS2 remains completely unchanged.

...and all that was required to do to make those accessible was to enable scrying pool LS1 missions in the original Hall of Monuments instance (that is available to all players, not just those that finished LS5e2), without the unlock mechanic hidden behind LS5 storyline.

I mean, i sometimes imagine, that every single time Anet wanst to introduce something cool and/or useful, they hold a meeting about how to introduce a twist to it that would cripple it on arrival. This is a good example of that.

[zealex.9410]

@Obtena.7952 said:Just being frank here ... why does a game that's 8 YO care about new players? Do people honestly think there are a huge influx of new players waiting in the wings here ... just waiting for ... SOMETHING to pick up the game and dump dollars into purchasing gems? ... and that they would even care about not being able to play this very specific content when they did adopt the game?

Um .. I don't see it.

Because its a live service title and not a sp done and dusted kind of game? they are designed with sustainability and longevity in mind and bringing in new blood, turning them into dedicated and passionate fans in key to a long running, sustaining and succesful product.

Plus its anet's only product.

[Zaklex.6308]

@ShroomOneUp.6913 said:

@Kurrilino.2706 said:Dear OP,

This is the Ice Brood Saga Episode 2. If you want to play the Ice Brood saga you have to play the Ice Brood Saga. What are we supposed to say ??

The whole thing has some flashbacks included that point to season1. The purpose of Ice Brood Saga is not to be Season 1 for some latecomers to enjoy.Did you really think A-Net will cater exclusively to people missing Season1? Of course not. They cater to everyone enjoying the Ice Brood Saga.

Sorry to burst your bubble.

the thing they do NOT cater to everyone as new player who started gw2 still get sling shot with a bare minimum summary of season one into season 2 barely knowing who these weird people are that suddenly follow you as if you had a magnet up your butt.its about allowing people to get to know the characters

Sorry to burst your bubble but those LS1 recaps don't allow you to get to know anyone, just how you met them, nothing more.

[zealex.9410]

@Zaklex.6308 said:

@ShroomOneUp.6913 said:

@Kurrilino.2706 said:Dear OP,

This is the Ice Brood Saga Episode 2. If you want to play the Ice Brood saga you have to play the Ice Brood Saga. What are we supposed to say ??

The whole thing has some flashbacks included that point to season1. The purpose of Ice Brood Saga is not to be Season 1 for some latecomers to enjoy.Did you really think A-Net will cater exclusively to people missing Season1? Of course not. They cater to everyone enjoying the Ice Brood Saga.

Sorry to burst your bubble.

the thing they do NOT cater to everyone as new player who started gw2 still get sling shot with a bare minimum summary of season one into season 2 barely knowing who these weird people are that suddenly follow you as if you had a magnet up your butt.its about allowing people to get to know the characters

Sorry to burst your bubble but those LS1 recaps don't allow you to get to know anyone, just how you met them, nothing more.

All the more reason these missions should be acessible from the get go, not 4 seasons and 2 expansions down the line.

Any self respecting story driven mmo wpuld adress and fix this.

[ShroomOneUp.6913]

@Zaklex.6308 said:

@ShroomOneUp.6913 said:

@Kurrilino.2706 said:Dear OP,

This is the Ice Brood Saga Episode 2. If you want to play the Ice Brood saga you have to play the Ice Brood Saga. What are we supposed to say ??

The whole thing has some flashbacks included that point to season1. The purpose of Ice Brood Saga is not to be Season 1 for some latecomers to enjoy.Did you really think A-Net will cater exclusively to people missing Season1? Of course not. They cater to everyone enjoying the Ice Brood Saga.

Sorry to burst your bubble.

the thing they do NOT cater to everyone as new player who started gw2 still get sling shot with a bare minimum summary of season one into season 2 barely knowing who these weird people are that suddenly follow you as if you had a magnet up your butt.its about allowing people to get to know the characters

Sorry to burst your bubble but those LS1 recaps don't allow you to get to know anyone, just how you met them, nothing more.

of course you do not get up and personal with them in some character study that blows away your mind but you at least know WHY those 5 randoms dudes follow you around and call you boss. specially since in season two they constantly call back to events that have happened and how you and them went through them. anyone who new to game will be confused by it.

[Treacy.4067]

Anet had a chance to implement this in a way that would make a more cohesive story for new players and in the end, make a stronger product. Gating the season 1 stuff behind all this bs and making players spoil themselves in order to do things in order was a terrible decision. I mean it's a real head-scratcher. For a game that invests so strongly into story, this was a boneheaded move.

[Ayrilana.1396]

I personally feel that including these instances for new players wouldn’t really matter as they were pulled out of context from LS1 and wouldn’t make all that much sense as to what is going on.

[Substance E.4852]

@ShroomOneUp.6913 said:

@"Substance E.4852" said:

Braham doesn't have any real character development until HoT, Taimi just hangs around until S2, and Rox isn't a full character

You can't miss out on what isn't there.

You can also just read the wiki for a quick rundown on the events if you want. You might think that's not enough but keep in mind that we're supposed to care about who Snaff was and the events with Logan prior to the game and those all only exist in a novel

its not about character development but more about " WHO THE FUDGE ARE THESE GUYS?"

and "just reading it up" comes way to close to disney fixing the "rise fo skywalker" post mortem

which is faulty analogy as destinies edges adventures happened without "the commander" and thus do not need to be fully detailed in the games story, however we get enough information naturally through game play (and yes i know some of it is part of dungeons but back then you got messaged to go to the story paths of them before they implemented the first " new player experience")season one is literally what the commander went through so it should be playable as such

Reading what happened tells you who they are

If that's not good enough then you can materialize a massive wad of cash to give to anet so they can go and recreate all the events of S1 but in a way that a single player can experience them because they're not gonna make the personal investment on behalf of hypothetical confused newbies

Just making the siege of lions arch and the tower of nightmares work would be nearly an entire LW chapters worth of work on their own

[Bealis.6023]

It is unfortunate, but I believe S1 can eventually make it into the Story Journal while all its parts are made into instanced zones in the future. That I imagine may take alot of effort since big part of S1 happened in the open world + some parts were even remade into fractals. If just these 4 new parts were added, that woudnt make much sense for tying the story together anyway.Truth is I would rather see the purpose of scrying pool and Visions of the Past in general for experiencing the past that is unknown to us. For instance what Caithe does with the Blooms, wheres Laranthir after what happened to Almorra, or even Asgeirs confrontation with Jormag long time ago, or hell, even the Hero (player) from GW1 as he/she was in the Eye.There are players who would like to reccommend the game to their friends for its story, so it would be such a wasted potential to not remake the Season 1, so I still have my hopes.

[arielqueen.6587]

Very disappointed. To be honest I'm not interested in side story of Bangar, but just wanted to replay season 1 again. Hope Anet will fix this to playable from story journal or Lion's Arch.