Rallying off NPCs

[inubasiri.8745]

So I downed 2 people and they BOTH rallied off a dolyak that went on the camp they flipped and died in there they didn't even kill it.Maybe this shouldn't happen?

[aspirine.6852]

There is no maybe here. No rally on all npc should have been a thing long ago.

[Sobx.1758]

True, also no downstate.

[Dinas Dragonbane.2978]

You can't rally off dolyaks because they are not veterans. They also must have killed two guards because only one will rally off of a kill, player or npc

[Turkeyspit.3965]

@"Dinas Dragonbane.2978" said:You can't rally off dolyaks because they are not veterans. They also must have killed two guards because only one will rally off of a kill, player or npc

Not sure where you got the idea that NPCs had to be veteran (though that's not a bad idea in of itself), but the WIKI disagrees with you:https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Rally

In World vs World, the defeat of a player will only rally one other player, and only NPCs that are part of an event such as guards and dolyaks will rally players.

[Ovalkvadratcylinder.9365]

@Turkeyspit.3965 said:

@"Dinas Dragonbane.2978" said:You can't rally off dolyaks because they are not veterans. They also must have killed two guards because only one will rally off of a kill, player or npc

Not sure where you got the idea that NPCs had to be veteran (though that's not a bad idea in of itself), but the WIKI disagrees with you:

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Rally

In World vs World, the defeat of a player will only rally one other player, and only NPCs that are part of an event such as

guards

and

dolyaks

will rally players.

You can rally of of the tree spirits in EBG too. Anet made all vet creatures able to rally players years ago.

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

I don't understand these attitudes, the game mode is already death-centric, consisting of little more than running back from waypoints half the time, and the Warclaw nerf already increased that, and you still want less fighting and more death?

Exploding in fights is already bad enough without not being able to rally or being instantly dead from no downstate. Its a war game and people need to be able to fight the other players, there has to be some degree of challenge, of struggle, of either side winning and not just one side, it can't just be about who has the biggest guns or the most players or the best coordination.

Both side have to be able to put up a fight no matter how much they "deserve" it, always. That's the whole point.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

Carry wars 2, things like this existing shouldn't surprise anyone lol

[Dawdler.8521]

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:Carry wars 2, things like this existing shouldn't surprise anyone lolYeah dollies always carry me. They are the unsung heros of WvW.

Well except that one that always get stuck in the garri door.

He can go eat a bag of kittens.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

The solution to this frequent and annoying problem is really quite simple and elementary.

Remove downstate.

[Virdo.1540]

rally makes no sense at all.If im about to die from a gunshot, but a friend manages do kill the one who shot me, so i feel perfectly fine afterwards ? NO

[Psycoprophet.8107]

Downstate is fine in pve but in pvp modes a carry mechanic that should be removed. The devs have enough balance issues on their plate and downstate just adds more balancing issues.

[Dawdler.8521]

@"Virdo.1540" said:rally makes no sense at all.If im about to die from a gunshot, but a friend manages do kill the one who shot me, so i feel perfectly fine afterwards ? NOThe friend doesnt try to save you? The friend doesnt do first aid? The friend doesnt get a doctor so that you may have a chance to live?

Well that just sound like a shitty friend.

Rallying is actually a perfectly sensible approximation of how a battle ends. Even in ye olde days with nowhere near the medical capabilities of what we have today, there usually wasnt that many casulties and a large part of them was "only" wounded. Take Waterloo and look at Wellingtons army - 68000 strong, with 17000 casualties. But of them, 10200 was wounded. Only 3500 was confirmed killed, the remaining missing.

[Virdo.1540]

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@Virdo.1540 said:rally makes no sense at all.If im about to die from a gunshot, but a friend manages do kill the one who shot me, so i feel perfectly fine afterwards ? NOThe friend doesnt try to save you? The friend doesnt do first aid? The friend doesnt get a doctor so that you may have a chance to live?

Well that just sound like a kitten friend.

Interacting with a downed player to help him is equal to a friend doing first aid

but just being perfectly fine without the friend even have to help, this is stupid

[Len.1879]

@Virdo.1540 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@Virdo.1540 said:rally makes no sense at all.If im about to die from a gunshot, but a friend manages do kill the one who shot me, so i feel perfectly fine afterwards ? NOThe friend doesnt try to save you? The friend doesnt do first aid? The friend doesnt get a doctor so that you may have a chance to live?

Well that just sound like a kitten friend.

Interacting with a downed player to help him is equal to a friend doing first aid

but just being perfectly fine without the friend even have to help, this is stupid

Seeing that fiend fall stricken down by the mighty warhammer of a trusty ally is an invigorating sight to behold, imbueing even the weakest with hope and second wind.

Makes perfect sense.

[TinkTinkPOOF.9201]

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:Downstate is fine in pve but in pvp modes a carry mechanic that should be removed. The devs have enough balance issues on their plate and downstate just adds more balancing issues.

I am fine with downstate in sPvP, but can do without it in WvW. PvP feels ok, because of even numbers, keep in mind however I am not going to cry if they removed it from PvP either. The biggest issue I have now is reviving, post patch it's much stronger, it's almost always the right choice (for now) to try and res someone in the middle of a fight, with dmg being reduced so much, cleaving just can't keep up with res speed. Downed HP was already to much before the patch, and after it's even worse.

If we are keeping down state, we need some reductions in downed HP and revive speed in combat, or leave downstate, remove rally and remove resing while in combat.

[ArchonWing.9480]

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@Virdo.1540 said:rally makes no sense at all.If im about to die from a gunshot, but a friend manages do kill the one who shot me, so i feel perfectly fine afterwards ? NOThe friend doesnt try to save you? The friend doesnt do first aid? The friend doesnt get a doctor so that you may have a chance to live?

Well that just sound like a kitten friend.

Sounds like most teammates.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

Quite the medic ur teammates would be seeing as how they can patch u up while ur being actively cleaved lol wish I was half the medic they are. How about if u take damage while being revived it automatically cancels the revive attempt and puts revive on a 5 sec cd.

[KrHome.1920]

So I downed 2 people and they BOTH rallied off a dolyak that went on the camp they flipped and died in there they didn't even kill it. Maybe this shouldn't happen?Let's assume this really happened (two players rallied on one target), then you learned something. Before you down a player, kill all the NPCs first or make sure they have enough health that you can finish or stomp before the player can kill the NPC!

And you can use that mechanic to your advantage. When I want to flip a camp that is defended by a player, I damage one NPC to about 5% health and then fight the player. If he downs me I kill the NPC and then I am back with 75% health. Epic moment when you do this while he is dropping siege or jumping on you and you then kill him.

Besides that: When we remove that rally mechanic, can we please remove the teleport to ambient creature and NPC stuff too then? That's a lot more annoying. Classes that have teleports and leaps that require a target get a mechanic they should not intentionally have. Shiro revenants, guardians and sword thieves get an insane amount of mobility because of that.

In general: I vote for a complete downstate removal. The two (?) no-downstate events we had, have been great!

[Aeolus.3615]

@KrHome.1920 said:

So I downed 2 people and they BOTH rallied off a dolyak that went on the camp they flipped and died in there they didn't even kill it. Maybe this shouldn't happen?Let's assume this really happened (two players rallied on one target), then you learned something. Before you down a player, kill all the NPCs first or make sure they have enough health that you can finish or stomp before the player can kill the NPC!

And you can use that mechanic to your advantage. When I want to flip a camp that is defended by a player, I damage one NPC to about 5% health and then fight the player. If he downs me I kill the NPC and then I am back with 75% health. Epic moment when you do this while he is dropping siege or jumping on you and you then kill him.

Besides that: When we remove that rally mechanic, can we please remove the teleport to ambient creature and NPC stuff too then? That's a lot more annoying. Classes that have teleports and leaps that require a target get a mechanic they should not intentionally have. Shiro revenants, guardians and sword thieves get an insane amount of mobility because of that.

In general: I vote for a complete downstate removal. The two (?) no-downstate events we had, have been great!

i cant rally on npcs :\ , ive tryed actually when theres a npc nearby does that really works????I really tough was a PVE thing and would only work on strutures veterans on the ring :\

i dont mind the downstate... but it should have more rules and interaction to recover from downstate than a tag or certain damage into a npc :\No more than 1 person could rez the down state would be a good start, reduce the healing done by alot.....Tune some skills to help playrs in downstate with minor effects, add a skill to rez targets like we had in gw1, fully dead targets would have to respawn or would put the designated rez skill effect on a heavyer ICD...

Mount 1 should be used to make rez more dificult not insta kill down players as well :.

Some balanced(o.O) hybrid version between gw1 and gw2 mechanics.

[inubasiri.8745]

It does work. Ever notice people you down in camps trying desperately to kill the vet guards in order to rally? You can't rally off quartermaster though or ogres or such.I don't mind downstate since it adds some extra tactics. No downstate also promotes burst builds I think.I also don't mind Warclaw #1 skill, but it shouldn't be as easy to run off to deaggro, mount and stomp.Thing is what happened to me was that the enemies hit a yak before I got there, I fought them, I downed them. In the meantime the yak reached the flipped camp and died there and then they rallied. It was really silly, because it seemed like they rallied out of thin air.

[Sovereign.1093]

@inubasiri.8745 said:So I downed 2 people and they BOTH rallied off a dolyak that went on the camp they flipped and died in there they didn't even kill it.Maybe this shouldn't happen?

Downstate is a feature since the beginning. To please no down state, the warclaw pounce was introduced. Tis like no downstate with extra steps.

It's even harder to rally now.

[inubasiri.8745]

The point is more like they both rallied off something they didn't even kill during a fight with another player.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

@Sovereign.1093 said:

@inubasiri.8745 said:So I downed 2 people and they BOTH rallied off a dolyak that went on the camp they flipped and died in there they didn't even kill it.Maybe this shouldn't happen?

Downstate is a feature since the beginning. To please no down state, the warclaw pounce was introduced. Tis like no downstate with extra steps.

It's even harder to rally now.

Remove downstate and then remove Pounce. Everyone is happy then.

[Sovereign.1093]

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@Sovereign.1093 said:

@inubasiri.8745 said:So I downed 2 people and they BOTH rallied off a dolyak that went on the camp they flipped and died in there they didn't even kill it.Maybe this shouldn't happen?

Downstate is a feature since the beginning. To please no down state, the warclaw pounce was introduced. Tis like no downstate with extra steps.

It's even harder to rally now.

Remove downstate and then remove Pounce. Everyone is happy then.

If ppl hate pounce of warclaw. They will not like no downstate.

Or maybe they might but it's part of the game.

If remove something, should be dragon banner x bloodlust and stat upgrade on. Keeps etc.,