Strike wont make me raid

[reative.4093]

They shoulf > @otto.5684 said:

@"reative.4093" said:If You want raid play in WoW. GW2 have superb other things that WoW don't have. GW2 is not raiding game and never will be.

I really wish Anet understood this a while back. I used to play SWToR and do raids. I specifically started playing GW2 cuz it does not have emphasis on such content. It is not designed for 10 minutes encounters. In my opinion all these resources poured in raids and strike mission is absolutely wasted resources, that would have been much better used in developing more open world content.

They should focus on optimization, pvp, story, graphic update (not needed too much), and dungeons - but not dungeons like in WoW - something like in ESO, You have enter to complex dungeons in open world, dungeons that scaling between 1 to 5 players, they come randomly like events (dunno, portal or some npc come to you and say, "hey! They open enter to that dungeon was close before, I hear it something strange there, maybe You and friends should check?". Just god focus on this few aspect, and make dungeons more in GW2 style (style of events) then WoW, add a little more progress (this carrot that player want... like... dunno... some new form of masteries, some paragon or champions levels - but not they give your character power so after time someone can kill You just looking at you, some paragons level in GW2 style - dunno, housing system? More paragons/champions/superduperlevelos give you possible to buy better houses or just give you simple ranking, thath you can see yourself on the top list, maybe some npc start talking about you so other people can see this? Maybe use for paragons levels a capes? More champions levels then you capes look more fabulous? Just something special, not just unlock some new skins or some items but something that really make You feel special.

[Alyster.9470]

@"otto.5684" Can you please explain why "its not designed" for raids? I am a raider and the reason why I play this game is raids and I think they are so much fun and very well made. Dont I deserve new content to enjoy this game? Lets say I dont do living world, then should I just go like "living world is waste of resources stop doing them make more raids"? No, because I know many other people enjoy it and I have nothing against them. Please stop trying to bash raids just because you dont do them or its not your thing, let people enjoy their own things.

[wrathmagik.3518]

I will never raid in this game. I left wow because I was sick and tired of raiding. I came here for something different.

[Diak Atoli.2085]

I'll start raiding if ArenaNet introduces a scaling mechanic so that I don't need a ten-person squad.

[Krzysztof.5973]

@"Elden Arnaas.4870" said:re: Some people will never press more than AA on their main character and refuse to learn basic 3-button rotation too. Should every single one of them make a thread as well so they feel more special? - The other threads about strikes are about strikes being used to gate achievements and story. This thread is about strikes being used to get more people to do raids - which ANet has explicttly said is the purpose of strikes.(under the raids heading, second paragraph)https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/97028/a-message-from-andrew-graySo this thread is different from those others - it is not redundant. And it is quite relevant. Other posters have agreed with the OP. And there are those who have disagreed with the OP. That's what these forums are for - discussion.And thanks for the cheap shot where you assert that anyone who doesn't want to raid only wants to auto attack, and refuses to learn the simplest rotations. Players who want to get into strikes and maybe raids need to know the hardships that they're going to face - and toxic l33tists are certainly one of them.

There is no room for discussion from OP's side. Let me quote OP here:

@Makuragee.3058 said:You know they arent listening XDAnd the "basic 3-button rotation" has nothing to do with raids. I've met more toxic casuals since 2015 than actual toxic " l33tist raiders" as you call them.XD

[otto.5684]

@Alyster.9470 said:@"otto.5684" Can you please explain why "its not designed" for raids? I am a raider and the reason why I play this game is raids and I think they are so much fun and very well made. Dont I deserve new content to enjoy this game? Lets say I dont do living world, then should I just go like "living world is waste of resources stop doing them make more raids"? No, because I know many other people enjoy it and I have nothing against them. Please stop trying to bash raids just because you dont do them or its not your thing, let people enjoy their own things.

I dunno if it was a good business decision or not. There is always the question of should MMOs specialize or be a scatter shot. The core of GW2 is open world. I surely not saying there should not be other content. But I personally think that Anet stretched their resources thin.

I am all for all sorts of content. I do not like it when devs try to over advertise something, by creating a less interesting version of it. It does not work. Would not you, as raider, think that strike missions are a waste of content, which would have been better used for more raids. I do not raid and I think so too. It is content that does not appeal to anyone. It is not for open world/LS or for raiders.

[robertthebard.8150]

@Krzysztof.5973 said:

@"Elden Arnaas.4870" said:re: Some people will never press more than AA on their main character and refuse to learn basic 3-button rotation too. Should every single one of them make a thread as well so they feel more special? - The other threads about strikes are about strikes being used to gate achievements and story.

This

thread is about strikes being used to get more people to do raids - which ANet has explicttly said is the purpose of strikes.(under the raids heading, second paragraph)

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/97028/a-message-from-andrew-gray

So this thread is different from those others - it is not redundant. And it is quite relevant. Other posters have agreed with the OP. And there are those who have disagreed with the OP. That's what these forums are for - discussion.And thanks for the cheap shot where you assert that anyone who doesn't want to raid only wants to auto attack, and refuses to learn the simplest rotations. Players who want to get into strikes and maybe raids need to know the hardships that they're going to face - and toxic l33tists are certainly one of them.

There is no room for discussion from OP's side. Let me quote OP here:

@Makuragee.3058 said:You know they arent listening XDAnd the "basic 3-button rotation" has nothing to do with raids. I've met more toxic casuals since 2015 than actual toxic " l33tist raiders" as you call them.XD

Yeah, I'm sure most wouldn't consider their behavior to be toxic when they can justify it with "but I'm just trying to make you into a better player" or "but you're doing it wrong, and I can teach you how to do it right". There are, after all, people that believe that the best way to get their message across is to beat people over the head with it, figuratively and literally. I'm sure they don't think they're being all that toxic, just insistent? I don't know about anyone else, but from where I'm sitting there's not much difference between a three button rotation and mashing auto-attack. Maybe because there's more mashing? Did some Awakened stuff in Ashford this morning, and I had about 14 keys that I was using constantly, or as they went off of CD. I guess I should have been paying more attention, so I could catch out and call out those 3 button rotation guys/gals for not playing properly? I'm glad that toon was only in the 6x range, or maybe I'd have had a lot more buttons to keep track of.

I do know that complaining about these 3 button rotations doesn't give me a lot of confidence in someone's raiding ability. It's easy to be a top tier raider on the forums after all. But I have boons to keep track of, and CC, and depending on the class maybe some healing abilities to throw out. That's a lot more than just three buttons, and I'm not even a raider, so I guess this guy that's running around with "everyone that's not doing the stuff I'm doing is a scrub" is full of shit?

[fehyra.2764]

I like strikes and find them very cool and super engaging. I think arenanet got it right for people like me that like fun mechanics, need for some a bit decent build and knowledge of how to play your class, a bit of challenge and group activity - "raid lite" experience. I play them every single day and I like the rewards. I usually don't encounter super salty people that whine and kick others - maybe once every 20-25 strikes and only on harder ones. So "community experience" I got is very positive. And I'm very glad they are very popular and I can't wait to see more of them.

I liked raids. I played them a lot before, now not that much. Raids did have more sour community. I want to say that I got into raids long time after they got out and without any friends or guildies that carried me or guided me. I watched and read online guides and was joining easiest raids training pugs each week. Most of the time it was a fail and I lost a lot of time and gold for food, but I got a lot of experience and knowledge of classes I play. And I got my first 50 LI that way. It took me a long time to get that. After that it was much easier. But man, these first 50 LIs... without guild or friends it was very hard. And sometimes depressing. I wanted to play them, they were hot stuff, exciting, but... I couldn't because a) I didn't have my group and b) I missed inital LI/kp run.

And I still kinda like raids now - but not nearly as much as strikes. I believe strikes won't make me raid again. I'll definitely try out new ones when they come out, but I believe I won't stick to pugging them. I am sure that the fun encounter by itself is not enough for me to make me stick.

What would make me play them often again them is a better connected community - with active, meaningful guilds. More people generally willing to group up and talk - not just for raids, but for anything. If guilds and in-game communication would matter. I find strikes great because I enjoy super fun and engaging stuff without needed extra coordination between people... In this game most kind of coordination in challenging group content with total random people is many times not nice - it's harder to "chew" it the harder the encounter is. When people do these encounters in guild environment, with people they care just a little bit, they cooperate, communicate and stick to the content a lot more. I was in a very active guild and everyone was much more engaging with any kind of content - new, permanent, old, seasonal. Grouping up more, talking more. I played - and wanted to play - a lot more of stuff than today. Even today - people with their in-game friend groups play much more content - all kinds of it. I recently joined wvw guild to play more wvw - and I am playing a lot more wvw. If I had friends that do swiss and need me to fill up party - I would do that even though I don't play pvp often, if not at all. And same with raids. If I find some group to play with, I would play them again, maybe even more than before. But now... I really have no want for that.

[Super Hayes.6890]

I wonder if the PvP amulet system would benefit Raids... Eliminate the idea that you have to show up with the right gear by leveling the playing field so it can be about skill and mechanics only. I personally don't raid much because of the time necessary to look up builds, set up gear then sit there and wait for the team to get all the right builds BEFORE even being able to attempt the content (which is not short as it is.) It is rare that I can set aside the time. Strikes, at least, I have time for and if they fail I haven't lost a significant portion of my soul.

[Ashantara.8731]

Unfortunately, the opposite is happening: raiders are taking over strike missions. Soon, no non-raider will be doing strikes anymore because of the LI requirements. :s I don't think that's what ANet had in mind when they introduced the EotN strike mission hub. :/

[Jilora.9524]

@Ashantara.8731 said:Unfortunately, the opposite is happening: raiders are taking over strike missions. Soon, no non-raider will be doing strikes anymore because of the LI requirements. :s I don't think that's what ANet had in mind when they introduced the EotN strike mission hub. :/

Plz stop with the miss info. There are LI reqs in very few lfg so don't get all dramatic and join/start one's with no reqs and yes I know you got kicked from one for not linking so don't need that story

[sevenDEADLY.5281]

@Ashantara.8731 said:Unfortunately, the opposite is happening: raiders are taking over strike missions. Soon, no non-raider will be doing strikes anymore because of the LI requirements. :s I don't think that's what ANet had in mind when they introduced the EotN strike mission hub. :/

Literally fake news. I've been doing pug strikes every day and NEVER once seen an LI requirement.

[Aridon.8362]

@sevenDEADLY.5281 said:

@Ashantara.8731 said:Unfortunately, the opposite is happening: raiders are taking over strike missions. Soon, no non-raider will be doing strikes anymore because of the LI requirements. :s I don't think

that's

what ANet had in mind when they introduced the EotN strike mission hub. :/

Literally fake news. I've been doing pug strikes every day and NEVER once seen an LI requirement.

Same.

[XatraZaytrax.2601]

@"Super Hayes.6890" said:I wonder if the PvP amulet system would benefit Raids... Eliminate the idea that you have to show up with the right gear by leveling the playing field so it can be about skill and mechanics only. I personally don't raid much because of the time necessary to look up builds, set up gear then sit there and wait for the team to get all the right builds BEFORE even being able to attempt the content (which is not short as it is.) It is rare that I can set aside the time. Strikes, at least, I have time for and if they fail I haven't lost a significant portion of my soul.

I agree with this. I like to play all aspects of the game and it is annoying to have to spend time grinding for the "right" only yo have metas change and then you need something else. I just want to play, not study. I have precious little time as it is and already spend too much farming.

I would also add an expanded example build list, like they have in pvp, so you could get an idea of builds that fit needed group members -- like dps or healer.

[Comus.7365]

raids seem popular among mmo devs.. i'm guessing they're just fun to create. but seeing how they need to be justified even in a huge game like WoW they aren't as exciting from a player PoV.

[Ashantara.8731]

@sevenDEADLY.5281 said:

@"Ashantara.8731" said:Unfortunately, the opposite is happening: raiders are taking over strike missions. Soon, no non-raider will be doing strikes anymore because of the LI requirements. :s I don't think

that's

what ANet had in mind when they introduced the EotN strike mission hub. :/

Literally fake news. I've been doing pug strikes every day and NEVER once seen an LI requirement.

Your experience does not equal mine. That doesn't make my statement "fake news". It would only be fake news if I was lying about it, which I am not. Whenever I have been doing strikes for the past week, over 50% of the LFG entries were listing LI requirements.

@Cyninja.2954 said:First: no one can take over content which is open to everyone. You are free to make your own group at any time.

That wasn't my point. My point it that I have seen an increase in raid squads for strikes, which I think will scare off your average PvE player, which I think is not what ANet's intention was when they introduced strike missions.

Second: the vast majority of LFG tags on EU are without any requirements.

You must be playing at different times than I do...

[Linken.6345]

@Ashantara.8731 said:

@sevenDEADLY.5281 said:

@Ashantara.8731 said:Unfortunately, the opposite is happening: raiders are taking over strike missions. Soon, no non-raider will be doing strikes anymore because of the LI requirements. :s I don't think

that's

what ANet had in mind when they introduced the EotN strike mission hub. :/

Literally fake news. I've been doing pug strikes every day and NEVER once seen an LI requirement.

Your experience does not equal mine. That doesn't make my statement "fake news". It would only be fake news if I was lying about it, which I am not. Whenever I have been doing strikes for the past week, over 50% of the LFG entries were listing LI requirements.

@Cyninja.2954 said:

First

: no one can take over content which is open to everyone. You are free to make your own group at any time.

That wasn't my point. My point it that I have seen an increase in raid squads for strikes, which I think will scare off your average PvE player, which I think is not what ANet's intention was when they introduced strike missions.

Second

: the vast majority of LFG tags on EU are without any requirements.

You must be playing at different times than I do...

It might also be that the li asking lfg take longer to fill and you dont see the quickly filled all welcome , some exp and chill etc squads.

[yann.1946]

@sevenDEADLY.5281 said:

@Josiah.2967 said:

@sevenDEADLY.5281 said:How would you propose a queue system in this game work? Other MMOs have the regular Tank, Healer, DPS trinity to role queue. Here we don't have that but we do have a soft group subset. While not 100% required, things like alacrity support, quickness support, healers, banner warrior, and the appropriate tank make raids 10x more manageable than not having any of those. If you just throw 10 randos into a raid queue you could end up with literally none of those things.

Easy.. . You Que for a dungeon.40% more health40% more dps40% more healing received

You should have no problem healing yourself or getting a few AOE heals from the group to be able to handle any dungeon. Maybe add 20% damage reduction to if you need to.

Those numbers are extremely unrealistic. Why not just make it so when you enter, all the bosses just die instantly? That's taking "challenging group content (Arenanet's purposeful design)" and turning it into a joke simply because some people can't be bothered to better themselves. Even WoW's dungeon queue only added 5% - 15% to the things you're describing and that already turns the dungeons into a walking simulator.

Actually in the context of gw2 these numbers are probably to small.

[Bladestrom.6425]

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@"Ashantara.8731" said:Unfortunately, the opposite is happening: raiders are taking over strike missions. Soon, no non-raider will be doing strikes anymore because of the LI requirements. :s I don't think

that's

what ANet had in mind when they introduced the EotN strike mission hub. :/

You seem to be slightly confused here.

First

: no one can take over content which is open to everyone. You are free to make your own group at any time. I do so daily with guild members from some of my guilds.

Second

: the vast majority of LFG tags on EU are without any requirements. How do I know? I actually spend quite a lot of time checking the LFG daily since I run all strikes multiple times. Most casual groups skip Boneskinner, some Boneskinner and Whisper, but many groups do the easy 3 strikes daily.

Third

: what you are perceiving is more dedicated players sticking to the content, even creating farm runs, while less dedicated players are slowly dropping out of the content after having seen it 2-3 times. That's not "raiders taking over", that's casual players dropping out. Those two might have a similar effect, but the cause is a vastly different one, as would be the place to put blame. If you want to blame someone, blame other casual players who decide to not stick with the content.

If casual player are 'dropping out' then strikes will become a niche like raids are, and therefore fail as the point of strikes is to attract the mjority/casual players.

Broadly speaking there are 2 types of raid/strike consumer:

The majority, that want 10 man content. But not the baggage of tight tuned content while playing builds they enjoy.

The minority. That want tightly tuned content that requires some form minmaxing/build selection, sustained time commitment, vc ideally etc.

Both are valid and should get content, the majority more so obviously.

[Cyninja.2954]

@Ashantara.8731 said:

@sevenDEADLY.5281 said:

@Ashantara.8731 said:Unfortunately, the opposite is happening: raiders are taking over strike missions. Soon, no non-raider will be doing strikes anymore because of the LI requirements. :s I don't think

that's

what ANet had in mind when they introduced the EotN strike mission hub. :/

Literally fake news. I've been doing pug strikes every day and NEVER once seen an LI requirement.

Your experience does not equal mine. That doesn't make my statement "fake news". It would only be fake news if I was lying about it, which I am not. Whenever I have been doing strikes for the past week, over 50% of the LFG entries were listing LI requirements.

@Cyninja.2954 said:

First

: no one can take over content which is open to everyone. You are free to make your own group at any time.

That wasn't my point. My point it that I have seen an increase in raid squads for strikes, which I think will scare off your average PvE player, which I think is not what ANet's intention was when they introduced strike missions.

That does not make sense. If one considers that on average content will see less play across all player groups as time passes, it is easy to assume that even raiders will stop playing the content. Thus the overall raid players playing strikes is decreasing. The only question is: is it decreasing at the same rate as more casual players. Which one can make educated assumptions on.

Strikes have an auto-group feature. It makes sense to assume that players who are less organized use that approach, while players who are more organized or intend to clear the difficult strikes, use the LFG. Meanwhile, and this is very clearly observable, LFG listings with more requirements take longer to fill. This is not a new concept and has been well known, even as far back as dungeons.

Again, your claim that:"raiders are taking over strike missions. Soon, no non-raider will be doing strikes anymore because of the LI requirements." is plain incorrect since this content is equally accessible to all players. What you are essentially complaining about is that players who put in less effort to group, will have a harder time than players who put in more effort to group, but you decided to blame the completely incorrect players here. That's what I take offense to since it's nothing but playing the toxic blame game.

@Ashantara.8731 said:

@sevenDEADLY.5281 said:

Second

: the vast majority of LFG tags on EU are without any requirements.

You must be playing at different times than I do...

Yes, as do the other 5 people who disagreed with your statement. But you are correct, this is a subjective issue.

All we know is: Arenanet and the developers will have the metrics on how and how much play this content sees. Everything else is pure speculation.

@vesica tempestas.1563 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Ashantara.8731 said:Unfortunately, the opposite is happening: raiders are taking over strike missions. Soon, no non-raider will be doing strikes anymore because of the LI requirements. :s I don't think

that's

what ANet had in mind when they introduced the EotN strike mission hub. :/

You seem to be slightly confused here.

First

: no one can take over content which is open to everyone. You are free to make your own group at any time. I do so daily with guild members from some of my guilds.

Second

: the vast majority of LFG tags on EU are without any requirements. How do I know? I actually spend quite a lot of time checking the LFG daily since I run all strikes multiple times. Most casual groups skip Boneskinner, some Boneskinner and Whisper, but many groups do the easy 3 strikes daily.

Third

: what you are perceiving is more dedicated players sticking to the content, even creating farm runs, while less dedicated players are slowly dropping out of the content after having seen it 2-3 times. That's not "raiders taking over", that's casual players dropping out. Those two might have a similar effect, but the cause is a vastly different one, as would be the place to put blame. If you want to blame someone, blame other casual players who decide to not stick with the content.

If casual player are 'dropping out' then strikes will become a niche like raids are, and therefore fail as the point of strikes is to attract the mjority/casual players.

Sure, that might be very well possible. If not enough players enjoy the content, then they will leave. That is hardly the fault of dedicated players who organize to clear content. If players stop playing the content, that is completely on them.

@vesica tempestas.1563 said:Broadly speaking there are 2 types of raid/strike consumer:

The majority, that want 10 man content. But not the baggage of tight tuned content while playing builds they enjoy.

The minority. That want tightly tuned content that requires some form minmaxing/build selection, sustained time commitment, vc ideally etc.

Both are valid and should get content, the majority more so obviously.

I wouldn't narrow this down to 2 groups, since the performance difference between these 2 groups is far to big. Also this does not account for the fact that certain players will play content a far less set amount of times compared to others. Absolutely unrelated to difficulty.

But yes, if strikes can not keep the attention of enough players, they will stop seeing development.

[Ashantara.8731]

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Ashantara.8731 said:That wasn't my point. My point is that I have seen an increase in raid squads for strikes, which I think will scare off your average PvE player, which I think is not what ANet's intention was when they introduced strike missions.

That does not make sense. If one considers that on average content will see less play across all player groups as time passes, it is easy to assume that even raiders will stop playing the content.

???

I said the increase in LI prerequisite squads will eventually scare off the average PvE player, hence only raiders will remain to play strikes if that happens. (Why would raiders stop playing the content because of this? If anything doesn't make sense, it is your response. Very confusing.)

@Linken.6345 said:It might also be that the li asking lfg take longer to fill and you dont see the quickly filled all welcome , some exp and chill etc squads.

That's possible. :) Whenever I initiate a strike squad, it does indeed quickly fill up since the introduction of the HoM hub.

[Cyninja.2954]

@Ashantara.8731 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Ashantara.8731 said:That wasn't my point. My point is that I have seen an increase in raid squads for strikes, which I think will scare off your average PvE player, which I think is not what ANet's intention was when they introduced strike missions.

That does not make sense. If one considers that on average content will see less play across all player groups as time passes, it is easy to assume that even raiders will stop playing the content.

???

I said the increase in LI prerequisite squads will eventually scare off the average PvE player, hence only raiders will remain to play strikes if that happens. (Why would raiders stop playing the content because of this? If anything doesn't make sense, it is your response. Very confusing.)

That only applies if NO one is willing to create squads without requirements. Which is a sub-function of players putting in effort to group. If you can't find enough players at a ratio of 1 to 10 to create LFGs without requirements, that's not the fault of more organized players who demand LI (without getting into the auto group feature working fine for the easier strikes).

Raiders stop playing the content just as any player does: it's a function of participation over time since the content was added.

So back to what I said: your main complaint is about players who put in less effort not seeing the same accessibility as players who put in more effort to group (and setting up LFGs with higher requirements is more work on top of that).

[sevenDEADLY.5281]

@"Ashantara.8731" said:Your experience does not equal mine. That doesn't make my statement "fake news". It would only be fake news if I was lying about it, which I am not. Whenever I have been doing strikes for the past week, over 50% of the LFG entries were listing LI requirements.

I'm saying I've never once seen an LI requirement and you're saying its taking over all of Strikes. Considering 4 people immediately responded saying they've never once seen an LI requirement and I still day in and day out literally NEVER see an LI requirement in the strike LFG channel, which one of us do you think is stretching the truth?

Edit: just logged on and looked again. Four groups up, one even for CM forging steel, and none of them have LI requirements.

[robertthebard.8150]

@sevenDEADLY.5281 said:

@"Ashantara.8731" said:Your experience does not equal mine. That doesn't make my statement "fake news". It would only be fake news if I was lying about it, which I am not. Whenever I have been doing strikes for the past week, over 50% of the LFG entries were listing LI requirements.

I'm saying I've never once seen an LI requirement and you're saying its taking over all of Strikes. Considering 4 people immediately responded saying they've never once seen an LI requirement and I still day in and day out literally NEVER see an LI requirement in the strike LFG channel, which one of us do you think is stretching the truth?

Edit: just logged on and looked again. Four groups up, one even for CM forging steel, and none of them have LI requirements.

I read: ANet, please don't start making Story content require a group to complete.

You read: ANet, don't make any more group content.

Do you really want me to answer that question?

[sevenDEADLY.5281]

@robertthebard.8150 said:I read: ANet, please don't start making Story content require a group to complete.

You read: ANet, don't make any more group content.

Do you really want me to answer that question?

This post is about someone saying strikes wont make them raid. This post is not about coop story content. Are you in the right place? Also the context of what you quoted has nothing to do with your response.