For the love of God, Nerf Mesmer already!

[Avatar.3568]

@Tayga.3192 said:

@"Luthan.5236" said:I'd like to see a "no pet" mode. With pet I actually mean - besides the ranger pet - all summonable stuff. Mesmer is the most annoying. Imagine having 2 enemy mesmers in a team. Then a necro that uses full set of minions (luckily not many do that) and ranger. Then maybe some guardian also summoning some (temporary) weapons flying around.

Sometimes it just feels too much. There should be a limit of 1 summoned thing per player in PvP (besides the ranger pet).

Yeah why play a summoner class? It's easy to just summon stuff and /sleep on the ground.Limit mesmer to 1 clones, necro and ele to 1 minions, ranger to 1 spirit, guardian to 1 spirit weapon, thief to 1 thieves guild member, renegade to 1 warband member and engineer to 1 turret.

Very high IQ

Pve ai is to hard for Pve players

[Heika.5403]

@rng.1024 said:

@Roarshack.4902 said:

@rng.1024 said:Step 1: Give them their dodge back

Step 2: Take distortion away (give it to Chrono, since chaining mirrors already replace this mechanic)

Step 3: Make Ambushes only available when using mirrors (NOT on dodge, Infinite Horizon should only be given to clones on dodge if the trait is picked)

Step 4: Remove any Vigor application from the mirage trait line and give it back to core lines.

Step 1: I agree

Step 2: Mirrors are a kitten mechanic. You would have to give up all your utility slots to make this viable, at which point it wouldn't be viable. Not to mention mirage cloak last for 1 sec, where distort can protect to the mirage for 4 sec at the cost of 3 clones. This is also on a 50sec CD. The only way mirrors replace distort effectively is if they change how you generate a mirror.

Step 3: This wouldn't work well, see the explanation to Step 2. The problem with IH is that the clones apply the damage, giving Mirage the ability to attack around corners and kite for days. IH should instead empower the Mirage ambush based on how many clones are up, similar to a shatter, but ONLY the Mirage ambush applies the damage. That would mean no more attacking around corners or doing damage while cc'd + Mirage Cloak, the Mirage would need LOS on the target for it to take effect. The clones should still do the animation, since that plays into the Mesmer fantasy of being confusing.

Step 4: Vigor up time makes sense in the Mirage line since the whole spec relies on Ambush as a core mechanic. The issue is that Mirage needs dodge for both Offense and Defense, the whole design would need to change to justify reducing Vigor up time without crippling the spec. It's why giving them only one dodge was such a huge nerf. My suggestion for IH would probably solve this to a certain degree, being able to dodge defensively even while CC'd and still apply damage via IH clone ambush is too strong. Its essentially getting a two for one special.

I'm not sure you are getting the intent of the first 2 bullet points:

To take away Distortion as a

defensive

mechanic which can:

• Be cast while stunned
• Be cast while standing still
• Last for up to 4 seconds
• No counterplay

And replace it with Mirrors as an

offensive

mechanic which can:

• Be walked over
• Lasts longer than a dodge
• Can't be used when stunned
• Requires preparation
• Lots of counterplay.

Now I'm not saying we shouldn't increase ways to make mirrors, and god forbid you actually have to take an

elite spec skill

to improve your

elite spec mechanic

.

But if you still think a spec with 2 dodges (who can still use other traitlines for vigor uptime) and 4 mirrors (equivalent to 5,25 dodges, can have more) require more vigor AND a 4 second distort on top.. there's no point discussing balance with you.

Our main mechanics are the dodges and ambushes. Now 50% nerfed. Mirrors are a bad mechanic, are traps for you as your enemy will focus on them. Mirrors encourage a wrong habit in a lot of players trying to reach them believing that they'll help them while in reality is the opposite. The best direction to run is blink out or run far from them or where you are not focused. And a Mirror are a clear zone to focus so you'll suffer trying to use them and often die instead of choose the right decision.

You also forget one important thing about use them offensive. You have to run into them... so almost always, you are heading yourself in the wrong direction, not against your enemy, so your ambush fails, because your enemy will be at your sides or back most of the times making them useless and not practical as an offensive tool for ambushes. That will make you have to think each time how to reach each Mirror while the only thing your enemy have to think/do is zone the area of your mirrors while attacking you. Also the slower side and reverse movement also cripple you using them in a effective way. All too predictable and avoidable as Mirage can't even bait the use or not of a Mirror. Can't stay there receiving damage as don't have enough sustain to do that in its actual single role, Mirage need to be all time in movement and that makes using Mirrors effectively even more complicated.

So yes, as a countereable mechanic works well, as an offensive tool are bad. The way they work now is better as they have some small AoE and defensive component too. And even now, i will exchange them with what others have in their professions every day. Remove them and give us something more useful. In a game with lines in a single plane, like Smite, LoL, etc. Mirrors could work well and if you can always position yourself with your mirrors between you and your enemy thanks to the walls and limits, in Gw2, that is not possible most of the time.

[Woltarion.6829]

When I saw the title of the post, I thought it was an out of season april fool joke.

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

@Woltarion.6829 said:When I saw the title of the post, I thought it was an out of season april fool joke.

It actually is.

[Vancho.8750]

Mesmers need full rework from the ground up. They are either broken OP or pointless, no middle ground. They need to make the elites have a purpose and make them good at it but not overbearing. The whole clone mechanic needs really deep reworking, "clones don't do damage, but they apply conditions if you pick this and that, which makes them do damage", "killing the clone counters the mesmers resource, but they gave them the ability to be spammed and another to make them dodge, but if not used the clones die really fast", the clones are supposed to be for mind games and what not but you can clearly see that no one is using them for that.The AI minion classes in any game always end up in the not fun category, spawn bunch of stuff to do your job, win by doing nothing or on the other side when it is noticed that is too overbearing they are made useless.The only working type of character i have seen in a game is probably Samuro from HoTS.

[rng.1024]

@mortrialus.3062Good eye :p

Thing is even with hyperbole the conclusion stands. You said mirrors equal 1 dodge in evade uptime. You have the trait, you have the heal.

That is effectively 6 dodges (if you get 2 regular), and because of the nature of shatters you can chain 3 of them (with f3) easily.

Given you have such an easy time avoiding condition application, it seems only fair you lose Distortion as a tradeoff.

Offense over defense - the rest of the mesmer kit can clear conditions, no elite spec should be a do-all.

If you play mirage after being reduced to 1 dodge roll without using mirrors, you are greatly missing out on free sustain - but then I'd rather advocate elite spec mechanics to feel worth picking, and the mirror mechanic is more than enough for mirage if they just make it synergize more.

It's not supposed to be optimal. The loss of distortion is supposed to be a tradeoff for your massively increased evade uptime.

[rng.1024]

@Heika.5403 said:

@rng.1024 said:

@Roarshack.4902 said:

@rng.1024 said:Step 1: Give them their dodge back

Step 2: Take distortion away (give it to Chrono, since chaining mirrors already replace this mechanic)

Step 3: Make Ambushes only available when using mirrors (NOT on dodge, Infinite Horizon should only be given to clones on dodge if the trait is picked)

Step 4: Remove any Vigor application from the mirage trait line and give it back to core lines.

Step 1: I agree

Step 2: Mirrors are a kitten mechanic. You would have to give up all your utility slots to make this viable, at which point it wouldn't be viable. Not to mention mirage cloak last for 1 sec, where distort can protect to the mirage for 4 sec at the cost of 3 clones. This is also on a 50sec CD. The only way mirrors replace distort effectively is if they change how you generate a mirror.

Step 3: This wouldn't work well, see the explanation to Step 2. The problem with IH is that the clones apply the damage, giving Mirage the ability to attack around corners and kite for days. IH should instead empower the Mirage ambush based on how many clones are up, similar to a shatter, but ONLY the Mirage ambush applies the damage. That would mean no more attacking around corners or doing damage while cc'd + Mirage Cloak, the Mirage would need LOS on the target for it to take effect. The clones should still do the animation, since that plays into the Mesmer fantasy of being confusing.

Step 4: Vigor up time makes sense in the Mirage line since the whole spec relies on Ambush as a core mechanic. The issue is that Mirage needs dodge for both Offense and Defense, the whole design would need to change to justify reducing Vigor up time without crippling the spec. It's why giving them only one dodge was such a huge nerf. My suggestion for IH would probably solve this to a certain degree, being able to dodge defensively even while CC'd and still apply damage via IH clone ambush is too strong. Its essentially getting a two for one special.

I'm not sure you are getting the intent of the first 2 bullet points:

To take away Distortion as a

defensive

mechanic which can:

• Be cast while stunned
• Be cast while standing still
• Last for up to 4 seconds
• No counterplay

And replace it with Mirrors as an

offensive

mechanic which can:

• Be walked over
• Lasts longer than a dodge
• Can't be used when stunned
• Requires preparation
• Lots of counterplay.

Now I'm not saying we shouldn't increase ways to make mirrors, and god forbid you actually have to take an

elite spec skill

to improve your

elite spec mechanic

.

But if you still think a spec with 2 dodges (who can still use other traitlines for vigor uptime) and 4 mirrors (equivalent to 5,25 dodges, can have more) require more vigor AND a 4 second distort on top.. there's no point discussing balance with you.

Our main mechanics are the dodges and ambushes. Now 50% nerfed. Mirrors are a bad mechanic, are traps for you as your enemy will focus on them. Mirrors encourage a wrong habit in a lot of players trying to reach them believing that they'll help them while in reality is the opposite. The best direction to run is blink out or run far from them or where you are not focused. And a Mirror are a clear zone to focus so you'll suffer trying to use them and often die instead of choose the right decision.

You also forget one important thing about use them offensive. You have to run into them... so almost always, you are heading yourself in the wrong direction, not against your enemy, so your ambush fails, because your enemy will be at your sides or back most of the times making them useless and not practical as an offensive tool for ambushes. That will make you have to think each time how to reach each Mirror while the only thing your enemy have to think/do is zone the area of your mirrors while attacking you. Also the slower side and reverse movement also cripple you using them in a effective way. All too predictable and avoidable as Mirage can't even bait the use or not of a Mirror. Can't stay there receiving damage as don't have enough sustain to do that in its actual single role, Mirage need to be all time in movement and that makes using Mirrors effectively even more complicated.

So yes, as a countereable mechanic works well, as an offensive tool are bad. The way they work now is better as they have some small AoE and defensive component too. And even now, i will exchange them with what others have in their professions every day. Remove them and give us something more useful. In a game with lines in a single plane, like Smite, LoL, etc. Mirrors could work well and if you can always position yourself with your mirrors between you and your enemy thanks to the walls and limits, in Gw2, that is not possible most of the time.

Ofc you should be rewarded for when and where you place them - running sword gives you an easy kite. There should be a skill floor in my opinion, and this gives alot more counter play than dodge, dodge, distort, f3, mirror, mirror, mirror, heal, mirror.

But remember the thread was about balancing mirage as a spec, and my main point was give 2 dodges and remove Distort - the rest can be buffed if you want.

[ArlAlt.1630]

Mesmer right now is Rick Astley. It can rick roll you, but that’s all it can really do.

[bravan.3876]

@rng.1024 said:@mortrialus.3062Good eye :p

Thing is even with hyperbole the conclusion stands. You said mirrors equal 1 dodge in evade uptime. You have the trait, you have the heal.

That is effectively 6 dodges (if you get 2 regular), and because of the nature of shatters you can chain 3 of them (with f3) easily.

Given you have such an easy time avoiding condition application, it seems only fair you lose Distortion as a tradeoff.

Offense over defense - the rest of the mesmer kit can clear conditions, no elite spec should be a do-all.

If you play mirage after being reduced to 1 dodge roll without using mirrors, you are greatly missing out on free sustain - but then I'd rather advocate elite spec mechanics to feel worth picking, and the mirror mechanic is more than enough for mirage if they just make it synergize more.

It's not supposed to be optimal. The loss of distortion is supposed to be a tradeoff for your massively increased evade uptime.

No clue where you see massive increased evade uptime when pre patch most classes (inlcuding classes with way more passive facetank sustain in addition, like Warrior or Ele) have more dodges (more defensive rotation uptime) than a 2 dodge Mirage. Post patch all classes outdodge a Mirage even when being way more tanky and/ or having more dmg on their dodges. Not to mention that Mirrors are no equal comparision for on demand dodges from endurance or on skills (some classes even still have stunbreak dodges on demand like Ele,Thief and Ranger). And those other classes are not even build around by basic mechanic and for that not in need to use dodges for anything else than just evading attacks. Means your whole basic premise is already wrong.

The one dodge change also was not a trade off, Mirage had one since PoF release by losing the normal dodge. The one dodge change was a PvP/WvW orientated nerf to MC, which wasn't needed at all anymore after all nerfs pre patch. The only problem was (and still is!!) IH Condimirage and all what is needed to solve the issues, is a rework of the condi ambushes (make them more about effects/ utilities and then fine adjust how much condi dmg on Mesmers and clones ambushes are balanced post patch with 2 dodges). And based on 2 dodges back maybe a little nerf to Mesmers own greatsword ambush (in dmg, maybe a little might/vulnstack reduction but very little), i would delete the clone generation on the Mesmers own sword ambush and i would exclude f4 reset from Signet of Illusion (not because of Mirage only but because f4 on nearly half its cd is just too good, even on core).

Only condi ambushes made it op to be able to dodge while being stunned because of the still high passive condi dmg from clones neutralizing the reward for a well timed cc to almost zero, only the passive design of the condi ambushes and the op clone dmg on normal autoattacks and clone ambushes made Condimirage not having any opportunitycosts/ harder decision making in dodge management (no need and no incentive to dodge pure offensive for well timed ambush rewards). IH Condimirage was the only op, easy and passive playstyle. And neither f4, nor MC, nor IH were the reasons.And because Powermirage never was an issue it is just logical to search for possible nerfs that ONLY affect IH Condimirage first. Those nerfs are possible, they just need a bit more effort from Anet than the nonsense and low effort one dodge change. What is just an overnerf pressuring Mirages out of IH (what should be a minor trait instead overnerfed), nerfing around the real issues of the bad condi ambush design and kills not op powerplaystyle as a spin off for no good reason.

No clue what you talk about f3, that has nothing to do with the dodge uptime as far as i know.

While Anets trade off agenda is an insane mess, it can even be that, even though Mirage does have a mechanical trade off already, it doesn't mean it cannot get a second trade off (like Daredevil got a second one even though his normal dodges are replaced too, what is a mechanical trade off already). I will die laughing when Mirage gets another trade off aside from the original one and on top of that nonsense one dodge overnerf xD

[mortrialus.3062]

@rng.1024 said:@mortrialus.3062Good eye :p

Thing is even with hyperbole the conclusion stands. You said mirrors equal 1 dodge in evade uptime. You have the trait, you have the heal.

That is effectively 6 dodges (if you get 2 regular), and because of the nature of shatters you can chain 3 of them (with f3) easily.

Desert Distortion isn't even run on the one mirage build that's actually good right now. Mirrors are not a replacement for distortion.

Even in previous iterations of meta mirage builds, Desert Distortion is taken frequently less than Desert Mantle and Mirrored Axes. Right now Mirrored Axes are taken because Axes are meta. Simple as that.

Given you have such an easy time avoiding condition application, it seems only fair you lose Distortion as a tradeoff.

Maybe through positioning and kiting. But Mesmer including Mirage both has for a year before been below average in active evasion/channeled block frames. Weaver was higher, thief was higher, spellbreaker was higher, ranger was higher, glint+shiro was higher. This is still largely true. Everyone's evade frame up time have gone down since the patch, but Mirage has gone down the most.

Look at Chronomancer right now and see what mesmer it's performance looks like without distortion. It's been completely dead since then despite literally every mesmer main trying to make it work, it has been among the least viable builds in the game. And your suggestion would dumpster Mirage too.

Offense over defense - the rest of the mesmer kit can clear conditions, no elite spec should be a do-all.

Mirage has neither offense or defense. Right now it has self mobility, team mobility through Portal, and massive boon rip. Mesmer is the lowest damage class in PvP right now, it has lack luster evasion. What's keeping mesmer / mirage competitive is Blink+Portal+Mirage thrust and double Distortion through Signet of Illusions.

If you play mirage after being reduced to 1 dodge roll without using mirrors, you are greatly missing out on free sustain - but then I'd rather advocate elite spec mechanics to feel worth picking, and the mirror mechanic is more than enough for mirage if they just make it synergize more.

Axe is the strongest weapon right now alongside MH Sword. You take Mirrored Axes. Simple as that. That's what is meta right now. Acting like 2.25s of evasion on one trait when properly set up, using a 50 second cooldown and three clones is this game breaking this is a joke when stuff like Pre-Megabalance Meta Fire Weaver were hitting something 39s of Evade+Invulnerability uptime during the first minute of combat compared to Pre-Megabalance Meta Mirage hitting 22 seconds during the first minute of combat.

Mirrors are not the elite spec mechanic. Mirage Cloak allowing you to cast while evading and ambushes when you activate Mirage Cloak are. Mirrors are just the way some utilities and traits give you a unique way to dodge, the way Withdraw gives Thieves an evade. Mirrors are the least emphasized thing Mirage ever brought to gameplay. It's like calling Magebane Tether the Spellbreaker mechanic. It's a thing that's a small part of the Elite Specialization. But it's not The Elite Specialization Mechanic.

[Heika.5403]

@rng.1024 said:@"mortrialus.3062"Good eye :p

Thing is even with hyperbole the conclusion stands. You said mirrors equal 1 dodge in evade uptime. You have the trait, you have the heal.

That is effectively 6 dodges (if you get 2 regular), and because of the nature of shatters you can chain 3 of them (with f3) easily.

Given you have such an easy time avoiding condition application, it seems only fair you lose Distortion as a tradeoff.

Oh wait, what easy time? Conditions are spammed everywhere today. And is you don't know the distortion-like effect in Mirage Cloack is not Distortion. Only give you evade, you still suffer the ticks of conditions already applied to you. Conditions last a lot, are reaplied easily and today even burst you down, like we see not only with Firebrand, Mirage, Necro, Rev, Berserker, even a DH rightly traited can do that. That evade only grants you to avoid new ones for a short time, which compared with the condition fest today means nothing. Obviously that we have clean options, like every one. For that reason you are forced to run Inspiration and be more defensive, with is a tradeoff for gain a better cleanse. No more no less than other have to do with the difference that our sustain is a lot lower and now even a joke so kill Mirage at this point is really easy for the professions and specializations that are dominating. For a reason they are going to nerf the sustain in a future balance patch. And not sure if we will suffer it too in some way.

Ofc you should be rewarded for when and where you place them - running sword gives you an easy kite. There should be a skill floor in my opinion, and this gives alot >more counter play than dodge, dodge, distort, f3, mirror, mirror, mirror, heal, mirror.

But remember the thread was about balancing mirage as a spec, and my main point was give 2 dodges and remove Distort - the rest can be buffed if you want.

Oh i see, what you want is nerf Mirage more and send it directly to the trash. The lose of Distortion can't be replaced by recovering the single dodge we lost because Mirage Cloak is not comparable defensively with distortion. You use Distortion only when things are really bad for you, as other use their invulnerabilities. No all builds are using the same traits or the same weapons. The single hybrid build used today is a consequency of the nerfs we suffered, not tradeoff. The "single dodge man" is a nerf not a tradeoff, he is still there in PvE and remove Distortion from Mirage will be another nerf too. Mirage Cloak can't save you from conditions when you are out of resources, for that reason inlvulnerabilities exist as the ultimate thing against the worst situation. And what is sad, now that you mention the easy kite with the sword, is the use of your single ambush to kite 90% of times actually because you don't have other alternative better than try to escape and leave the combat or gain time. So yes, the purpose of use ambush offensively is now almost never used due to be too weak out there against the actual sustain. Need to we used as a tool to kite and give you extra movement. Ironically you'll be chased anyways by revenants, heralds, sb, thiefs, etc, unless if for some reason, you are using a portal and is available. The rest of time you are the target number one today.

The Chronomancer problem is the lose of IP and that the Distortion not increase in duration with the amount of ilusions. If his Distortion even embembed in Continuum Split could increase in time with the amount of ilusions like with Mesmer/Mirage. Chronomancer sure that will have less problems in extrem situations to alive. That is another history of bad balance from Anet.

What is your purpose here? We are already an easy kill, at least for now. And developers already ruin things giving us useless altarnatives and removing core things from our specializations, like the single dodge, distortion, IP, a lot of more in the past years. They don't need help for think new ideas to continue doing that in the future. I want to see what will be the nerf in our sustain in the upcoming patch balance or in the one they'll balance it.

[ArlAlt.1630]

Updated the video link I posted to a working one. Not sure why it got messed up the first time around.

[Leonidrex.5649]

@ArlAlt.1630 said:Updated the video link I posted to a working one. Not sure why it got messed up the first time around.

you might as well place it in this message as well, think about the lazy asses like myself!

[ArlAlt.1630]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@ArlAlt.1630 said:Updated the video link I posted to a working one. Not sure why it got messed up the first time around.

you might as well place it in this message as well, think about the lazy kitten like myself!

@ArlAlt.1630 said:@Khalisto.5780@Roarshack.4902@"Avatar.3568"

I found proof that Mesmer is still OP!

https://youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ

I hope now you understand.

There you go!

P.S. I'm waiting for the "you're evil!" comment.

[storm.3120]

@ArlAlt.1630 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@ArlAlt.1630 said:Updated the video link I posted to a working one. Not sure why it got messed up the first time around.

you might as well place it in this message as well, think about the lazy kitten like myself!

@ArlAlt.1630 said:@Khalisto.5780@Roarshack.4902@"Avatar.3568"

I found proof that Mesmer is still OP!

https://youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ

I hope now you understand.

There you go!

P.S. I'm waiting for the "you're evil!" comment.

[Leonidrex.5649]

d e l e t e d

[ArlAlt.1630]

Deleted for no reason at all.

[Senqu.8054]

Can we please stop talking about improving a pick up item mechanic??? Really no one in this game likes pick up items so why are you now forcing us Mesmers to use it. This is the pure ignorance of this community I always talk about. At the start of HOT the engineer relied on this mechanic and it got deleted because there was no one who enjoyed it.

[Leonidrex.5649]

@Senqu.8054 said:Can we please stop talking about improving a pick up item mechanic??? Really no one in this game likes pick up items so why are you now forcing us Mesmers to use it. This is the pure ignorance of this community I always talk about. At the start of HOT the engineer relied on this mechanic and it got deleted because there was no one who enjoyed it.

thats the point, the less fun and the shittier mesmer is the better, this is the point lol

[ArlAlt.1630]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Senqu.8054 said:Can we please stop talking about improving a pick up item mechanic??? Really no one in this game likes pick up items so why are you now forcing us Mesmers to use it. This is the pure ignorance of this community I always talk about. At the start of HOT the engineer relied on this mechanic and it got deleted because there was no one who enjoyed it.

thats the point, the less fun and the kitten mesmer is the better, this is the point lol

This is the way!

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@pninak.1069 said:I find it funny how you ignore thief. my friend I am playing with just yesterday told me that a thief spiked him for 23k. and most classes got their oneshot ability nerfed hard already.

Ur friend and or u are lying, pretty simple really. U or anyone can simple go into mist and build ur power core build- highest dps burst thief running DA 213,trickery 312 and CS 321 and for kicks add assassin signet and soa to ur utility bar and due ur best back stab on heavy golem or the practice ai guard or war and be amazed at ur 4k-6k back stab after getting boons from ur steal, then heartseeker for 2-4k and enjoy ur 3-400 damage autos except for the 1k hit on final hit of rotation lol compared to the sustain of necro,holo, revs,rangers,guards including their respective specs the thief's burst is pathetic. Try building a non 100% damage build to be bit more useful and go 1v1 vs any of those classes and observe how little dps u do compared to them and how funny it is watching all ur dagger attacks except one skill and a back stab do basically nothing against their hp lol. What's even funnier is thief's burst as it is right now is actually one of the lowest.

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@pninak.1069 said:I find it funny how you ignore thief. my friend I am playing with just yesterday told me that a thief spiked him for 23k. and most classes got their oneshot ability nerfed hard already.

Ur friend and or u are lying, pretty simple really. U or anyone can simple go into mist and build ur power core build- highest dps burst thief running DA 213,trickery 312 and CS 321 and for kicks add assassin signet and soa to ur utility bar and due ur best back stab on heavy golem or the practice ai guard or war and be amazed at ur 4k-6k back stab after getting boons from ur steal, then heartseeker for 2-4k and enjoy ur 3-400 damage autos except for the 1k hit on final hit of rotation lol compared to the sustain of necro,holo, revs,rangers,guards including their respective specs the thief's burst is pathetic. Try building a non 100% damage build to be bit more useful and go 1v1 vs any of those classes and observe how little dps u do compared to them and how funny it is watching all ur dagger attacks except one skill and a back stab do basically nothing against their hp lol. What's even funnier is thief's burst as it is right now is actually one of the lowest.

You can go ~7,5k backstab ez on Heavy. 6k HS (depending on HP), ~600 autos. So yeah thieves' damage is not as low as thieves claim to be.

[kraai.7265]

Hi, IMOStep 1: Restore the second dodge.Step 2: Remove the ability dodge while stunned.Step 2: Remove the ability to apply condis from clones.Removing the most annoying mechanic, then the most broken one, leaving IH only as a good visual distraction.And ofcourse revert the mediocre chrono rework they did a few months ago.Maybe that will make me come back.

[ArlAlt.1630]

@"kraai.7265" said:Hi, IMOStep 1: Restore the second dodge.Step 2: Remove the ability dodge while stunned.Step 2: Remove the ability to apply condis from clones.Removing the most annoying mechanic, then the most broken one, leaving IH only as a good visual distraction.And ofcourse revert the mediocre chrono rework they did a few months ago.Maybe that will make me come back.

Why would anyone pick IH over EM if your suggestion is implemented?I love it when people make "high IQ" suggestions and don't think about ramifications.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@pninak.1069 said:I find it funny how you ignore thief. my friend I am playing with just yesterday told me that a thief spiked him for 23k. and most classes got their oneshot ability nerfed hard already.

Ur friend and or u are lying, pretty simple really. U or anyone can simple go into mist and build ur power core build- highest dps burst thief running DA 213,trickery 312 and CS 321 and for kicks add assassin signet and soa to ur utility bar and due ur best back stab on heavy golem or the practice ai guard or war and be amazed at ur 4k-6k back stab after getting boons from ur steal, then heartseeker for 2-4k and enjoy ur 3-400 damage autos except for the 1k hit on final hit of rotation lol compared to the sustain of necro,holo, revs,rangers,guards including their respective specs the thief's burst is pathetic. Try building a non 100% damage build to be bit more useful and go 1v1 vs any of those classes and observe how little dps u do compared to them and how funny it is watching all ur dagger attacks except one skill and a back stab do basically nothing against their hp lol. What's even funnier is thief's burst as it is right now is actually one of the lowest.

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@pninak.1069 said:I find it funny how you ignore thief. my friend I am playing with just yesterday told me that a thief spiked him for 23k. and most classes got their oneshot ability nerfed hard already.

Ur friend and or u are lying, pretty simple really. U or anyone can simple go into mist and build ur power core build- highest dps burst thief running DA 213,trickery 312 and CS 321 and for kicks add assassin signet and soa to ur utility bar and due ur best back stab on heavy golem or the practice ai guard or war and be amazed at ur 4k-6k back stab after getting boons from ur steal, then heartseeker for 2-4k and enjoy ur 3-400 damage autos except for the 1k hit on final hit of rotation lol compared to the sustain of necro,holo, revs,rangers,guards including their respective specs the thief's burst is pathetic. Try building a non 100% damage build to be bit more useful and go 1v1 vs any of those classes and observe how little dps u do compared to them and how funny it is watching all ur dagger attacks except one skill and a back stab do basically nothing against their hp lol. What's even funnier is thief's burst as it is right now is actually one of the lowest.

You can go ~7,5k backstab ez on Heavy. 6k HS (depending on HP), ~600 autos. So yeah thieves' damage is not as low as thieves claim to be.

Yeah I've got 7 and 6k on heavy golem on a build forgoing everything useful but damage,so what? That's still not high burst compared to the other bursts out there by tanker classes for one and for 2 they don't have to sacrifice everything for that damage which considering were talking about a low sustain burst class that is in fact pathetic so.Also I don't kno how anyone could claim mesmers OP when there 2x guards , necro/reapers with a sprinkle of condi core rangers on every team every match, why do u guys think that is? Did those two classes get some really fun new skills and animations since last patch? LolU hear about how broken condi rev is but see it far less than those other two,is it cuz revs harder to play hmmmm.Is this cmc guy blind or does he not play pvp often? I kno he mentioned dh having one of the highest win rates even in plat but can he not see the massive influx of guards and necro's? I mean doesnt take a genius to figure out why and if he hasn't is this who anet wants in charge of numbers lol gl anet.

[kraai.7265]

@ArlAlt.1630 said:

@"kraai.7265" said:Hi, IMOStep 1: Restore the second dodge.Step 2: Remove the ability dodge while stunned.Step 2: Remove the ability to apply condis from clones.Removing the most annoying mechanic, then the most broken one, leaving IH only as a good visual distraction.And ofcourse revert the mediocre chrono rework they did a few months ago.Maybe that will make me come back.

Why would anyone pick IH over EM if your suggestion is implemented?I love it when people make "high IQ" suggestions and don't think about ramifications.

Good point I forgot about that. Step 4: Bring exhaustion back. Solved.