Very few to nobody made threads on this forum to complain about Rev

Thornwolf.9721 · April 28, 2020

@Leonidrex.5649 said:
@Thornwolf.9721 said:
@LazySummer.2568 said:
@"Kuma.1503" said:If you mean condi rev, it has already been hit hard.
Banish Enchantment: Increased energy cost from 20 to 30 in PvP only.Pain Absorption: Increased energy cost from 30 to 35 in PvP only.Call to Anguish: Increased energy cost from 30 to 35 in PvP only.Searing Fissure: Reduced initial burning duration from 10 seconds to 5 seconds in PvP only.Echoing Eruption: Increased cooldown from 8 seconds to 12 seconds in PvP only.Embrace the Darkness: Reduced additional torment stacks after using an energy skill from 2 to 1 in PvP only.
If you mean power, who knows. With toughness getting shaved across the board with amulet nerfs, it might end up going from strong but balanced, to OP. We'll see once the meta settles.

All forms of revs are busted currently -- both condi & power, even Jalis ones.

Condi ones are your typical condi bunkers that are hard to kill while being able to wear you down with non-negligible condi dmg and also capable of bursts with certain combos. It's also equipped with obnoxious AoE cc spam and has high resistance uptime when resistance is supposed to be scarce.

Power ones are still capable of teleporting in and bursting people down in an instant while being slippery if they just mind their distance / stunbreaks / glint heal / energy (muh good rev players lol it's really not a difficult concept to grasp to not brainlessly blow all your load at once, but i guess the typical gw2 skill level difference is just between someone that facerolls on keyboard vs someone that doesn't)

Jalis ones are insanely tanky with stab spam and dmg reduction vs both power & condi of at least 60% when their dwarf elite is traited, and Renegade versions (inb4 Renegade lol) even higher with prot spam and that Kalla Fervor trait that also reduces condi dmg, not to mention Renegade play style is super braindead because you just spam AoE AIs on nodes when you're offensive while Jalis skills when you're defensive. On top of that, the Retribution traitline allows them to spam AoE weakness vs power builds.

It's really mind boggling to me when very few people on the gw2 forums can grasp how broken revs are, or I guess everyone's just good players and I'm bad :) :) :)

I agree on you probably being bad, because as a rev player (Im not the best but I can put in work.) I can tell you the trick, CC and focus is a rev's weakness. Like I find it hilarious that everyone is having these "Issues" in PvP when in reality the most broken condi variant for one is WvW almost exclusive because its trailblazers +Runes of tormenting, nerf the rune and Im sure it will fall off a bit. And Renegade is laughable in WvW but good in PvP, Herald is alright but shiro herald is kinda worthless in WvW when you can bring a guardian who can outshine them.

Guardian is FAR WORSE than rev is right now, guardian is just a monster that can solo pretty much anything.. Yet people are still pointing fingers at us likes its our doing.

CC and focus counters anything, if its the only argument you can bring then thats not much of an argument is it?

alright since you wana be that guy~ Lets do it.

So shiros skills are super expensive, I have yet to fight a shiro rev of any caliber who can do more than try to stall. on or between objectives (The game has multiple modes, WvW and PvP share balance somewhat keep that in mind.) So like its worthless. No really its trash.. Its proc impossible odds and try to get hits in and hope for the best and try to play around the enemy. Due to lifesteal from battle scars and vuln application.
Kalla spirits can be cc'd and they have health too, so it looks like they can be killed and dispersed as mine were last night. Also Renegade has the nasty issue where it looses sustain which is why you see jalis complimenting it.
Jalis itself provides stab on the road, but again energy management between weapons and utilities as well trying to provide alacrity when able makes rev a pain to really be the one doing the killing. (Honestly resistance on mallyx seems way more impactful, due to the condi meta.)
Most times the spirits give allies protection, and soul cleaves summit offers a damage amp alongside fervor and lifesteal which amps your team. So I feel like its more everything going on at once thats doing the damage, so from experience it goes like this. Rev engages====> Plants spirits===> Uses shortbow to cc and be annoying, auto while soul-cleave is up===> amps team and provides cooldown reduction while trying to support. ===> Swaps into melee weapon of choice and begins to lay into enemies when they get close, but usually just offering autos if in kalla and holding soulcleave.

If condi: ===>Rush with glint, drop the fire and claws and swap to mallyx====> Embrace the darkness and leap, while embrace the darkness is up use mace 2 + 3 and then use 5 as a cc if people try to revive. Use 4 when needed for gap closing, swap weapons to staff when needed if needed at all.

Most of the time if your team is solid, they will take advantage of your fields/boons/presence and utilize what you bring. On either end your offering ways for them to come in and use you as an amp from fields, buffs and so on. In PvP Trailblazers nor rune of tormenting exists which is where the WvW condi monster typically comes from,as trailblazers offers everything a condi-build on a soldier class needs to be tanky and have moderate to high damage. Rune of tormenting makes it so you heal for a percentage of your torment damage (Thats all mallyx really does.) SO nerf the rune and the sustain goes down, or remove Trailblazers as it offers a strong kit for competitive play when it comes to condi builds and is too offensive/tanky when considering how condi-classes and condi specs work.

Power Revenant? Warrior can hard counter, thief can hard-counter, Guardian can hard-counter, reaper can hard counter, messmer can hard counter and ele running their tanky bunker builds can counter. CC in general for Power rev can be a huge issue without support; In WvW Rev is not the biggest beast of burden but it can become one. Honestly Id be happier with a rework to shiro to make it more like the rework referenced in the revenant sub forum; Id also be happy if they reworked glint into a pure healing legend and made it synergize best with ventari and made shield another hard support weapon for party play to co-exist with staff.

But reworks clearly will never happen, so nerfing them into oblivion is not the answer. Due to revenant having so little in customization and costly skills to deal with cc, a lot of what it comes down to is baiting out cc's and various forms of high value skills. Its about out maneuvering your enemy because they have a better kit than you do; So with that being the case maybe its fine as is? I mean while we have access to two skill bars a good chunk of the skills are either worthless, or too expensive to be used in application to the fight and to top it off some of the more impactful ones have high cooldowns. We also have the least amount of weapons and we lack a ranged condi-weapon within core, We also don't have a lot of synergy anymore between some weapons and some are only used as gimmick. (Shortbow provides a strong as heck cc if it lands, and it also gives a combo field.) Hammer is trash, staff is alright but its kinda trash as well and honestly Sword/sword can be good but it really doesn't feel worth running a lot of the time due to its mobility only being applicable in engaging (Unless you target another enemy and use it to disengage which comes with its own risks.) And swords have decent cooldowns AND energy costs. So to me it sounds like QQing over a class you don't know how to play against, so all I can say is cry I guess? Like either learn to counter it or offer up some way to make it fair. (Without gutting the profession..)

Psycoprophet.8107 · April 28, 2020

@Tao.5096 said:
@Shao.7236 said:It's almost as if engaging mechanics that induce teamwork and reaction aren't what makes up this game. Are we gonna say CC and focus is bad and needs to be removed now?

We are going to say that high dps with high sustain along with teleports which ignore line of sight as de La Creme, need to be removed.

Either high dps or high sustain.

Not both together.

Actually a revs sustain is only high if they use their evades and heals appropriately which is why when u see a bad or new rev they melt in secs unlike a new necro or any of the other tanks that require very little timing or smart use of a few defensive abilities to not insta die lol. That again falls into if the players good rev can have great sustain thru skillful use of its tools but skillful is the keyword as it requires skillful play to use them to have great sustain otherwise u melt.

LazySummer.2568 · April 28, 2020

@Supreme.3164 said:
@Shao.7236 said:Not to rain on your parade but...last tournament was won by a team with 3 revs in it....just saying

From what I see, there's always some sort of Rev on basically every single team in the last tournament too.

@"Thornwolf.9721" said:I agree on you probably being bad, because as a rev player (Im not the best but I can put in work.) I can tell you the trick, CC and focus is a rev's weakness. Like I find it hilarious that everyone is having these "Issues" in PvP when in reality the most broken condi variant for one is WvW almost exclusive because its trailblazers +Runes of tormenting, nerf the rune and Im sure it will fall off a bit. And Renegade is laughable in WvW but good in PvP, Herald is alright but shiro herald is kinda worthless in WvW when you can bring a guardian who can outshine them.
Guardian is FAR WORSE than rev is right now, guardian is just a monster that can solo pretty much anything.. Yet people are still pointing fingers at us likes its our doing.

I can also call you bad too by just saying focusing Guardian is its weakness, and this is the sPvP forum in a game with the ability to split balance numbers between sPvP so not sure why you're bringing in WvW. Mind you, I also think it absurd that Guardians, specifically Firebrands, got away with no nerfs, but in my opinion (just like your opinion that Guards are far wose), Revs in general are just better than Guards right now, and no, I'm not a Guard main.

Eurantien.4632 · April 28, 2020

@mistsim.2748 said:Honestly I'm ok with Shiro. It takes a lot of skill to play the build, and the bad Shiros in lower tiers are easy enough to kill. I say keep observing top tier balance, and make changes in the future if needed.

They literally aren't.

Psycoprophet.8107 · April 28, 2020

@LazySummer.2568 said:
@Supreme.3164 said:
@Shao.7236 said:Not to rain on your parade but...last tournament was won by a team with 3 revs in it....just saying

From what I see, there's always some sort of Rev on basically every single team in the last tournament too.

@"Thornwolf.9721" said:I agree on you probably being bad, because as a rev player (Im not the best but I can put in work.) I can tell you the trick, CC and focus is a rev's weakness. Like I find it hilarious that everyone is having these "Issues" in PvP when in reality the most broken condi variant for one is WvW almost exclusive because its trailblazers +Runes of tormenting, nerf the rune and Im sure it will fall off a bit. And Renegade is laughable in WvW but good in PvP, Herald is alright but shiro herald is kinda worthless in WvW when you can bring a guardian who can outshine them.
Guardian is FAR WORSE than rev is right now, guardian is just a monster that can solo pretty much anything.. Yet people are still pointing fingers at us likes its our doing.

I can also call you bad too by just saying focusing Guardian is its weakness, and this is the sPvP forum in a game with the ability to split balance numbers between sPvP so not sure why you're bringing in WvW. Mind you, I also think it absurd that Guardians, specifically Firebrands, got away with no nerfs, but in my opinion (just like your opinion that Guards are far wose), Revs in general are just better than Guards right now, and no, I'm not a Guard main.

I almost took u serious till u said revs are better than guards right now. Maybe if fb wasn't a guard espec I'd have taken u seriously as that spec is thee defacto OP spec of the last how many yrs in EVERY game mode lmao. Everyone expects the new especs to be broken op out the gate as they usually are and I do as well but even those spec will have to be some kinda broken if their gonna surpass fb. There's a reason 10x guards are present in all game modes vs revs, not cuz their weak.

Thornwolf.9721 · April 28, 2020

@LazySummer.2568 said:
@Supreme.3164 said:
@Shao.7236 said:Not to rain on your parade but...last tournament was won by a team with 3 revs in it....just saying

From what I see, there's always some sort of Rev on basically every single team in the last tournament too.

@"Thornwolf.9721" said:I agree on you probably being bad, because as a rev player (Im not the best but I can put in work.) I can tell you the trick, CC and focus is a rev's weakness. Like I find it hilarious that everyone is having these "Issues" in PvP when in reality the most broken condi variant for one is WvW almost exclusive because its trailblazers +Runes of tormenting, nerf the rune and Im sure it will fall off a bit. And Renegade is laughable in WvW but good in PvP, Herald is alright but shiro herald is kinda worthless in WvW when you can bring a guardian who can outshine them.
Guardian is FAR WORSE than rev is right now, guardian is just a monster that can solo pretty much anything.. Yet people are still pointing fingers at us likes its our doing.

I can also call you bad too by just saying focusing Guardian is its weakness, and this is the sPvP forum in a game with the ability to split balance numbers between sPvP so not sure why you're bringing in WvW. Mind you, I also think it absurd that Guardians, specifically Firebrands, got away with no nerfs, but in my opinion (just like your opinion that Guards are far wose), Revs in general are just better than Guards right now, and no, I'm not a Guard main.

3 revs running different builds. So a shiro/herald getting impossible Odds + Battle scars and LIKELY Soul-cleaves? Yeesh yea I could see that being nasty as it wasn't intended to be used in conjuction as soul-cleaves is locked behind a upkeep E-skill. Definantly a combination that the dev's likely didn't anticapate when introducing battle-scars, paired with a potential third rev running condi? Welp. I mean yea. That'd do it.

Guardian in no way is worse than rev, if a guardian sucks that bad then that guardian should re-roll. Guardians get passive aegis spam, they have tons of coverage and even alone can stall on node like no ones business. And with how brain-dead some of the people in PvP seem (Run in drop, everything and die if you don't kill in one rotation?) Yea I don't know man I feel like its partially that un-intended synergies + Not understanding other classes/bad plays are at fault here.

Shao.7236 · April 28, 2020

@Tao.5096 said:
@Shao.7236 said:It's almost as if engaging mechanics that induce teamwork and reaction aren't what makes up this game. Are we gonna say CC and focus is bad and needs to be removed now?

We are going to say that high dps with high sustain along with teleports which ignore line of sight as de La Creme, need to be removed.

Either high dps or high sustain.

Not both together.

Current laughable Meta rev build burst is the easiest thing to counter in this game. It's sustain is nothing short of not face rolling and binding stow to a key.

They could nerf the damage into oblivion and it would not change the fact people fall for such thing easily rather than thinking with solutions.

Psycoprophet.8107 · April 28, 2020

@Tao.5096 said:
@Shao.7236 said:It's almost as if engaging mechanics that induce teamwork and reaction aren't what makes up this game. Are we gonna say CC and focus is bad and needs to be removed now?

We are going to say that high dps with high sustain along with teleports which ignore line of sight as de La Creme, need to be removed.

Either high dps or high sustain.

Not both together.

I love this. Rev has a targeted tele with shiro and targeted shorter ranged tele with sw5 and a worse version of rangers smoke assault and is a burst class so.... it's crazy it bursts?How many other classes have target able tele...guards or tele's that dont need targets like thief,ele,mesmer etc etc.Ur really reaching here lolRev is basically a thief with less mobility,no invisibility bit higher burst potential, literally what thief haters cry that they wish thief was and revs are proof that it wouldn't have mattered if thief had less mobility,zero invisibility but more burst damage they'd still have cried lmao.

Tyse the Black.6789 · April 28, 2020

@LazySummer.2568 said:Revs in general are just better than Guards right now, and no, I'm not a Guard main.

Countering condi rev doesn't really matter what class you're on if your positioning is good (which is pretty fundamental to any matchup in SPvP).

Core Guardian having so much cleanse, aegis (usually for doing nothing) and burning required FB to get so much cleanse, aegis (sometimes for doing nothing) and burning in addition to wild boon application. These things each in turn require other things to be over-tuned to be competitive including necro corrupt/sustain and most of everything in the current condi meta... of course some of this is due to scrapper's ridic. cleanse and sometimes condi convert but again, support scrapper is more pigeon-holed into cleansing as a role so it has to be better at it than guardian is because guard is so much better at every other part of support. Guardian is meta defining in every competitive mode because of the above and it has been since PoF launched, stop ur trolling nonsense

Dantheman.3589 · April 28, 2020

I think rev damage is pretty darn decent, some shaves I could see. What I hate is condition rev, literally having 1 of these in a team fight against necros and firebrands is literally enough to 1shot/completely destroy their team fight- it’s literally insta win in NA meta against teams without it- and that’s why it’s busted

LucianTheAngelic.7054 · April 28, 2020

@Supreme.3164 said:
@Shao.7236 said:
@LazySummer.2568 said:
@Kuma.1503 said:If you mean condi rev, it has already been hit hard.
Banish Enchantment: Increased energy cost from 20 to 30 in PvP only.Pain Absorption: Increased energy cost from 30 to 35 in PvP only.Call to Anguish: Increased energy cost from 30 to 35 in PvP only.Searing Fissure: Reduced initial burning duration from 10 seconds to 5 seconds in PvP only.Echoing Eruption: Increased cooldown from 8 seconds to 12 seconds in PvP only.Embrace the Darkness: Reduced additional torment stacks after using an energy skill from 2 to 1 in PvP only.
If you mean power, who knows. With toughness getting shaved across the board with amulet nerfs, it might end up going from strong but balanced, to OP. We'll see once the meta settles.

All forms of revs are busted currently -- both condi & power, even Jalis ones.

Condi ones are your typical condi bunkers that are hard to kill while being able to wear you down with non-negligible condi dmg and also capable of bursts with certain combos. It's also equipped with obnoxious AoE cc spam and has high resistance uptime when resistance is supposed to be scarce.

Power ones are still capable of teleporting in and bursting people down in an instant while being slippery if they just mind their distance / stunbreaks / glint heal / energy (muh good rev players lol it's really not a difficult concept to grasp to not brainlessly blow all your load at once, but i guess the typical gw2 skill level difference is just between someone that facerolls on keyboard vs someone that doesn't)

Jalis ones are insanely tanky with stab spam and dmg reduction vs both power & condi of at least 60% when their dwarf elite is traited, and Renegade versions (inb4 Renegade lol) even higher with prot spam and that Kalla Fervor trait that also reduces condi dmg, not to mention Renegade play style is super braindead because you just spam AoE AIs on nodes when you're offensive while Jalis skills when you're defensive. On top of that, the Retribution traitline allows them to spam AoE weakness vs power builds.

It's really mind boggling to me when very few people on the gw2 forums can grasp how broken revs are, or I guess everyone's just good players and I'm bad :) :) :)

Anyone can take anything and water it down into nothing.

Also any Revenant builds have wide openings such as NOT blowing your burst or CC's when they are on the defensive. That goes with

anything

in this game. Hilariously I am the (Probably) the only main core Revenant in the game this season again and it's working fine for me. Probably because it's

broken

to play anything right in this game, who knew.

If Revenant is this broken, where's the rev meta then? All I see is the same weak Heralds that can't duel for anything or the same wrongly played Renegades using their defensive skills offensively, Metabattle looks awful itself. It's been a big yikes for a while.

Edit: Pulsing stability = the first thing that gets removed.

Not to rain on your parade but...last tournament was won by a team with 3 revs in it....just saying

~~It's worth noting Rank 55 (aka Sindrener and crew) didn't play the EU monthly. ~~ Sure, the team that won had 3 Renegades, but nearly all other teams across NA and EU had 0 Renegades. Does that mean Ren is overtuned because one team won with it? Highly debatable (especially since they didn't even fight the best EU team). Also worth noting that opponents of the French Worms (3 Ren team) were running a semi questionable team comp for fighting 3 Rens (don't think Scrapper was the play there, at all). Also their rotational game was questionable. Renegade is fairly slow AF, so can be easily out-rotated. But no, the opponent team tried to hold onto some points longer than they should have or fight losing battles on contested points, when they could have pulled off since the Worms only had a thief for strong chasing pressure. Also it's not like they lost by a landslide; only 142 points, and they had control in the very first portion of the game, so it certainly could have been a winnable match-up had they made different decisions

Edit: strikethrough on the incorrect misinformation

Master Ketsu.4569 · April 28, 2020

Revenant currently needs a quickness nerf. Or actually, quickness itself could use a nerf.

Rev is balanced around being a class that excels in many things at the expense of two major downsides:

Energy system heavily punishes random skill spam
Skills have very obvious animations to them. Compare Revs insanely telegraphed CCs + burst to just about any other class and the difference is huge.

Quickness is a problem on the class because it lets you ignore both of these downsides. Normally, the meta Rev Shiro/Glint burst of Elite+Sword 4/5/2 is one of the most comically telegraphed burst damage attacks in the game to the point where even if you don't know anything about rev most players would instinctively dodge it anyways due to how big and obvious a huge dragon followed up by twin swords being held in the air for 10 billion years is. But when you have quickness, this becomes near instant cast. It also helps with energy management because it makes your autos do good enough DPS that you can gain quickness and auto-attack pressure someone for a few seconds while saving up for an even bigger burst.

I understand this well as someone who mains rev a lot. The only times I ever have trouble with any other Rev build is quickness being used to cheese out tons of skills in zero time. All other times it's incredibly easy to interrupt rev combos if you know what to interrupt.

IMO quickness itself could use a rework. Like making it stack intensity instead of duration, ( Max stacks of 5, each stack gives only 10% ) and then splitting all quickness granting skill for PvE/PvP so that most of them only give 1 stack in PvP. Kind of like this:

Phase Traverse ( PvP ) Teleport and gain 1 stack of Quickness for 3sPhase Traverse ( PvE ) Teleport and gain 5 stacks of Quickness for 5s

^ this would make a lot more sense and fix so much that is wrong with how the boon works. It also cuts down on the big reason you see double Rev in organized teams / ATs. Two revs cordinating with each other will use PT to jump on the same target and basically spam damage combos at instant speeds which are made impossible to avoid from being boosted by it. One rev doing it is bad enough but two revs doing it over voice-communication is a guaranteed kill on even the most skilled of players.

This isn't just an issue on Rev it's just most obvious on Rev. FBs spamming skills and Holo spamming skills under quickness is also an issue. The boon in general is just boosted and has been boosted for a very long time. +50% cast/animation speed allows people to cheese out their entire skillbar worth of damage at speeds faster than what the servers can even handle. People with huge ping differences using quickness builds can potentially even hit each other before the animation even displays on the other players end due to the latency. What a meme.

Leonidrex.5649 · April 28, 2020

@Shao.7236 said:
@Leonidrex.5649 said:
@Thornwolf.9721 said:
@LazySummer.2568 said:
@"Kuma.1503" said:If you mean condi rev, it has already been hit hard.
Banish Enchantment: Increased energy cost from 20 to 30 in PvP only.Pain Absorption: Increased energy cost from 30 to 35 in PvP only.Call to Anguish: Increased energy cost from 30 to 35 in PvP only.Searing Fissure: Reduced initial burning duration from 10 seconds to 5 seconds in PvP only.Echoing Eruption: Increased cooldown from 8 seconds to 12 seconds in PvP only.Embrace the Darkness: Reduced additional torment stacks after using an energy skill from 2 to 1 in PvP only.
If you mean power, who knows. With toughness getting shaved across the board with amulet nerfs, it might end up going from strong but balanced, to OP. We'll see once the meta settles.