Nerf Symbols

[Eurantien.4632]

Both firebrand and core guard are carried by symbols.

Nerf symbols.

Classes that are good 1v1 shouldn't have AoE.

[Enduronex.4865]

I concur. I wouldn't want to make changes so drastic they dramatically change how the class plays, so I would suggest a start with reducing the pull range of Firebrand and actually reducing the condition dmg multiplier has for the burning condition anyway - 0.15 per 100 dmg is too much, in my opinion, and it's way too easy for guards to stack burns that cannot be cleansed fast enough.

[DragonFury.6243]

That burn have too much damage can melt 15k HP in 4 to 5 secondNeed some tweaking and no other nerf

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

Just change Justice passive to be 1 proc per 2 seconds rather than 5 hits, make one of the 'Wrath' traits reduce it to 1s ICD.

[ArlAlt.1630]

@Eurantien.4632 said:Both firebrand and core guard are carried by symbols.

Nerf symbols.

Classes that are good 1v1 shouldn't have AoE.

Just kill the pet... wait, still not the right thread.Just dodge.

[storm.3120]

@DragonFury.6243 said:That burn have too much damage can melt 15k HP in 4 to 5 secondNeed some tweaking and no other nerfUnless you are condi herald/renegade :D

[Mysticjedi.6053]

So you believe that a group of skills that have pretty easy to see wind up animations, is completely static, and REQUIRES the opponent to stand in the symbol in order to receive maximum damage multiplier is too strong?Dodge and attack the Guardian from behind. Every other class can literally run circles around Guardian.

[Mini Crinny.6190]

@Mysticjedi.6053 said:So you believe that a group of skills that have pretty easy to see wind up animations, is completely static, and REQUIRES the opponent to stand in the symbol in order to receive maximum damage multiplier is too strong?Dodge and attack the Guardian from behind. Every other class can literally run circles around Guardian.

Once the train starts, it ain't gonna stop until guard gets it's nerf

[Tayga.3192]

Complaining about burn guard in 2020

[rng.1024]

Since all symbols give an additional effect, setting a baseline direct dmg coefficient of all base symbol tics to 0.1 would go a long way.

Then we can even talk of buffing the additional effect.

This way symbols keep their support aspect, but instead of dealing damage they will now - through type and traits - buff you or debuff the enemies, compounding with eachother for an opportunity window.

[Shao.7236]

The real problem is duration, they can keep their increased radius, but having something to constantly protect them at close range with retaliation that is pretty overkill. In fact, combined with the burning aside the slight co-efficient changes, guardians are relatively untouched because all those factors are still kicking the same after the nerf.

I'm honestly okay with the burning hurting this much because kitting rocks any of them, the real issue that after kitting there's almost no opportunity to riposte with the small recovery because they have everything in the world still watching over them. Perhaps remove a burning stack or slightly reduce the duration, otherwise there's more than burning to worry about.

[Revolution.5409]

Probably not even Anet knows how to balance FB, which is why it is never properly balanced.

[ArlAlt.1630]

@Revolution.5409 said:Probably not even Anet knows how to balance FB, which is why it is never properly balanced.

They didn't know how to balance Mesmer either, that didn't stop them from nuking it from orbit. By all means, don't stop now.

[Exedore.6320]

@Revolution.5409 said:Probably not even Anet knows how to balance FB, which is why it is never properly balanced.Firebrand needs a re-design. Those take time if you want to do them right. You can't fix it with numbers tweaks.

[Poledra Val.1490]

Why dont we just delete the entire class while you are at it from the face of pvp, dear oh dear. Yes symbols need a nerf however FB has been nerfed hard the last few months and core guard over the years have gotten dozens of nerfs. Its so strange people complain about 1 singular condition as there are so many more things that the need to be focused on currently in the meta.

[Mini Crinny.6190]

@Poledra Val.1490 said:Why dont we just delete the entire class while you are at it from the face of pvp, dear oh dear. Yes symbols need a nerf however FB has been nerfed hard the last few months and core guard over the years have gotten dozens of nerfs. Its so strange people complain about 1 singular condition as there are so many more things that the need to be focused on currently in the meta.

Nerfed so many times yet still one of the best classes in the game

[Revolution.5409]

@Exedore.6320 said:

@Revolution.5409 said:Probably not even Anet knows how to balance FB, which is why it is never properly balanced.Firebrand needs a re-design. Those take time if you want to do them right. You can't fix it with numbers tweaks.

I fully agree with this, however, changing those numbers in the right way would make the situation a little better.

[Buran.3796]

You want a easy fix? Make all AoE attacks which do damage to count as friendly fire: hurts everyone inside the area, including allies and the caster. For all classes and builds.

[OutOfOrder.3719]

This sounds like a boo boo my ranger greatsword got nerfed, let’s nerf symbolbrand again thread. Mantra lore and truth were already drastically changed.

Just dodge or walk out of the symbols, it’s not that hard.

You do realize that the original player Grotchan that created the symbolbrand build doesn’t ever play it anymore as it was nerfed that hard.

Now adjust more Ranger pet attack and damage skills as there were not nearly enough adjustments made this patch.

[otto.5684]

@rng.1024 said:Since all symbols give an additional effect, setting a baseline direct dmg coefficient of all base symbol tics to 0.1 would go a long way.

Then we can even talk of buffing the additional effect.

This way symbols keep their support aspect, but instead of dealing damage they will now - through type and traits - buff you or debuff the enemies, compounding with eachother for an opportunity window.

This will never work. Beside the fact the only thing that made symbols useable by FB is one trait in zeal (and if they remove that trait probably no FB would use symbols, as they didn’t a year ago), unless you are using marauder symbols barely deal any damage.

If symbols damage was so powerful core guardian would dominate. Yet it is not even on the map.

Remove the “justice passive procs twice as fast” from zeal minor GM. Problem solved.

[youle.5824]

@otto.5684 said:

@rng.1024 said:

This will never work. Beside the fact the only thing that made symbols useable by FB is one trait in zeal (and if they remove that trait probably no FB would use symbols, as they didn’t a year ago), unless you are using marauder symbols barely deal any damage.

If symbols damage was so powerful core guardian would dominate. Yet it is not even on the map.

Lol dude you playing in lower ranking or not paying attention then cause in top 10 NA we have 2 guards playing bunker core guard with zeal honor. Symbol fill whole node and do 1k dmg every second on mender amu, and tanky asfck cause they use honor + meditations heals.. most low key broken shit. Hence nerf thread

[youle.5824]

And ofc shield 5 to scepter 3 because every side noder is only as good as his decap potential now.

[Exedore.6320]

@Eurantien.4632 said:Both firebrand and core guard are carried by symbols.

Nerf symbols.

Classes that are good 1v1 shouldn't have AoE.Nerfing symbols won't fix the problem. It's a mountain of power creep, some of which includes symbols. You need to look at the whole picture instead of just what's in front of you.

Here's some history just on symbols. For most of core, they were a joke in PvP. But stacking power creep has made them overpowered.

• There used to be 4 symbols (hammer, greatsword, staff, mace) plus downstate and one on trait which no one cared about. Playing a symbol-centric build limited your weapon choices or limited the power of the traits. Now every weapon now has a symbol.
• The original symbols tended to have longer cooldowns (hammer is the exception). Almost all of the added symbols are on relatively short cooldowns. And some of the original cooldowns were reduced.
• The original symbols' boons weren't all that spectacular. Swiftness in a static area and the others were regeneration and retaliation. Newer symbols add a lot of fury and might - offensive and arguably more potent boons.
• Symbols were given a damage buff, both directly and through supplementary traits to add vulnerability, damage to vulnerable foes, and extra justice procs.
• Writ of Persistence (increased duration, size, and healing) was mostly fine with the original symbols. However the fixed duration increase combined with more, lower cooldown symbols made this trait more powerful.
• Guardians originally had limited mobility and limited soft CC. Burst damage was limited. Guardians could defend an area and deal damage over time, but not chase people down. Symbols fit well into that state. Now guardians, especially elite specs, have many more CC tools and more damage and are less constrained by static combat.

Be careful about where you nerf. A good starting point is reducing some base duration on lower cooldown symbols and changing Writ of Persistence to a percentage duration.

[DoritoGod.5817]

bro I agree that symbols are stupid and braindead but let's be real if you remove symbols you will either have no guardians in the game at all or burn guardians only. just let them play symbols or at least give 1 weapon on the entire class have enough damage to be viable without them.

[Fueki.4753]

Don't touch Symbols, they are fine.We are spending two trait lines for them, so they should have an impact on enemies that don't know how to move or dodge.And even if you were to nerf them, Condi Firebrands and Healbrands would just increase in number, making PvP even more of a clown party.