Condi Thief is Fun and Interactive

[Arheundel.6451]

@Bazsi.2734 said:

@"Vallun.2071" said:Remember when people said thief was unplayable a few weeks ago after the patch, and I had to come in and tell people thief was fine. Now when people are yelling that condi thief is too overpowered and brain dead, here I am to tell you that there are ways to counter play the build. Yes it is a bit strong right now, and I suggest that the duration of some of the condis be lowered, and the animation on shadow strike be increased.

Ah yes, power thief builds(you know, actual thief builds)being weak are completely fine because a braindead overtuned condi burst build exists.

Power thief is fine...if you want more, we gut : shadow step - infiltrator return and infiltrator arrow...under no circumstances you should believe to keep your busted mobility on top of excellent dueling abilities, this is a MMO with 8 other professions....it's not Assassin Creed and nerf threads will remain as a remainder of that

[Sobx.1758]

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@Bazsi.2734 said:

@"Vallun.2071" said:Remember when people said thief was unplayable a few weeks ago after the patch, and I had to come in and tell people thief was fine. Now when people are yelling that condi thief is too overpowered and brain dead, here I am to tell you that there are ways to counter play the build. Yes it is a bit strong right now, and I suggest that the duration of some of the condis be lowered, and the animation on shadow strike be increased.

Ah yes, power thief builds(you know, actual thief builds)being weak are completely fine because a braindead overtuned condi burst build exists.

Power thief is fine...if you want more, we gut :

shadow step - infiltrator return and infiltrator arrow

...under no circumstances you should believe to keep your busted mobility on top of excellent dueling abilities, this is a MMO with 8 other professions....it's not Assassin Creed and nerf threads will remain as a remainder of that

There are also nerf threads about the other 8 classes, what point are you trying to make here?

[UNOwen.7132]

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@Bazsi.2734 said:

@"Vallun.2071" said:Remember when people said thief was unplayable a few weeks ago after the patch, and I had to come in and tell people thief was fine. Now when people are yelling that condi thief is too overpowered and brain dead, here I am to tell you that there are ways to counter play the build. Yes it is a bit strong right now, and I suggest that the duration of some of the condis be lowered, and the animation on shadow strike be increased.

Ah yes, power thief builds(you know, actual thief builds)being weak are completely fine because a braindead overtuned condi burst build exists.

Power thief is fine...if you want more, we gut :

shadow step - infiltrator return and infiltrator arrow

...under no circumstances you should believe to keep your busted mobility on top of excellent dueling abilities, this is a MMO with 8 other professions....it's not Assassin Creed and nerf threads will remain as a remainder of that

Well at least you finally managed to drop the stealth nonsense. That being said, nah, only infiltrators arrow would have to be changed. Shadow Step and Infiltrators Strike are the level of mobility other capable duelists have. They are mostly limited to combat after all.

That being said, nah, power thief can be buffed. It not being a good duelist is fine, but right now its not just an atrocious duelist, but its pretty bad at +1ing as well.

[saerni.2584]

@Vallun.2071

Cast time on Shadowstrike makes no sense. It’s like the Death’s Retreat skill in that it needs to go off quickly as a teleport skill designed for kiting. Fighting P/D you just need to be prepared to disable or evade or block to prevent them from teleporting away. Or kite them because it won’t go off.

The only thing that is making this stronger than bad players can handle is the venom share and the thieves guild combo. Without that it doesn’t do much more damage than any other effective build.

[Bazsi.2734]

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@Bazsi.2734 said:

@"Vallun.2071" said:Remember when people said thief was unplayable a few weeks ago after the patch, and I had to come in and tell people thief was fine. Now when people are yelling that condi thief is too overpowered and brain dead, here I am to tell you that there are ways to counter play the build. Yes it is a bit strong right now, and I suggest that the duration of some of the condis be lowered, and the animation on shadow strike be increased.

Ah yes, power thief builds(you know, actual thief builds)being weak are completely fine because a braindead overtuned condi burst build exists.

Power thief is fine...if you want more, we gut :

shadow step - infiltrator return and infiltrator arrow

...under no circumstances you should believe to keep your busted mobility on top of excellent dueling abilities, this is a MMO with 8 other professions....it's not Assassin Creed and nerf threads will remain as a remainder of that

At first it seemed like you were talking about thief but then you mentioned "Excellent dueling abilites"... lol what?

[XECOR.2814]

Video is fine but i think the nerf he suggests are too light. The frequency of their bursts is still too high. Either reduce that or just reduce all damaging condi stacks as suggested in video(but more). Let em have the sustain.

[Bast.7253]

I tried this setup instead of the one I have but I think I like the burstier glassier one a bit better. I think this build is probably better in higher ranks where people know how to counter it, but that's the recurring issue with any of these types of builds. It seems broken now, but once it gets nerfed something will come along after that will seem way worse. It always does.

I found a somewhat viable chrono build that puts out more conditions than this and mirage ever did, reliably. I'm sure if a lot of people were using it people would be shouting to nerf chrono now too, despite it being gutted already.

But it's the same as it is with thief, once people learn how to counter it you're left with a glassy condi burst build. There are other builds, like condi rev, that can put out just as much condition pressure but have seemingly infinite reset buttons and defensives. Or rangers that can block, evade, and disengage for days while their pet cc spams you or crits you for half your health and troll half the team on a cap for a whole match.

Honestly, I've seen some core condi mesmers with much more sustain and constant condition pressure than condi thief.

[lesterhaus.9685]

So there is a lot back and forth between the build being broken and just fine.I myself am having quite a hard time to fight this build and as much as i appreciate Valluns video, can anyone point me to some actual sPvP footage were they can show me in a real szenario how to do it? Sadl golems and theorycraft didn't help me out on that part.

Should be enough out there since there are vocal parts of the community attesting that it is easy to counter.

Thanks in advance!

[Koen.1327]

@Quadox.7834 said:tell me 1 reason to run mesmer while condi thief exists

adjust a little and condi thieves are no problem at all for mespower much harder

[Quadox.7834]

@Koen.1327 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:tell me 1 reason to run mesmer while condi thief exists

adjust a little and condi thieves are no problem at all for mespower much harder

im talking about filling a role in 5v5 not thief v mes duels.

[Quadox.7834]

@anjo.6143 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:tell me 1 reason to run mesmer while condi thief exists

So you always change class to the broken one?

if you knew me you would understand how wrong that statement is

[Koen.1327]

@Quadox.7834 said:

@Koen.1327 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:tell me 1 reason to run mesmer while condi thief exists

adjust a little and condi thieves are no problem at all for mespower much harder

im talking about filling a role in 5v5 not thief v mes duels.

the same as always? what part of condi thief prevents running mes?

[Quadox.7834]

@Koen.1327 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:

@Koen.1327 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:tell me 1 reason to run mesmer while condi thief exists

adjust a little and condi thieves are no problem at all for mespower much harder

im talking about filling a role in 5v5 not thief v mes duels.

the same as always? what part of condi thief prevents running mes?

you can guess that 1 yourself

[Koen.1327]

@Quadox.7834 said:

@Koen.1327 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:

@Koen.1327 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:tell me 1 reason to run mesmer while condi thief exists

adjust a little and condi thieves are no problem at all for mespower much harder

im talking about filling a role in 5v5 not thief v mes duels.

the same as always? what part of condi thief prevents running mes?

you can guess that 1 yourself

would be a shot in the blue, pls elaboratei wish more games were with condi thieves, rather than tempest, revs, nec which push out mes much morecondi thief hasnt had big impact playing with or against it playing as a mes for me

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

@omgdracula.6345 said:

@Kicast.1459 said:In the end if I understand well, it is not so strong.We just have to predict Spamable spells, dodge every second and cleansee every 3 second (not before else we die from confusion).

Sounds fair, balanced and perfectly manageable.

Thief is fine thanks again anet

I mean as Vallun pointed out. What the thief is going to do has pretty big tells other than Shadow Strike. If you see the thief stealth. You know it will be following that up with a sneak attack. So you have the following options.

1. Dodge the attack because you can see the projectiles
2. LOS if you are near terrain
3. Depending on where thief is distance wise due to range of pistol you can probably just kite out the stealth.

Except that lately the servers are laggy af, and you can't properly counter play cheese strikes from stealth like this.

[Leonidrex.5649]

@Koen.1327 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:

@Koen.1327 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:

@Koen.1327 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:tell me 1 reason to run mesmer while condi thief exists

adjust a little and condi thieves are no problem at all for mespower much harder

im talking about filling a role in 5v5 not thief v mes duels.

the same as always? what part of condi thief prevents running mes?

you can guess that 1 yourself

would be a shot in the blue, pls elaboratei wish more games were with condi thieves, rather than tempest, revs, nec which push out mes much morecondi thief hasnt had big impact playing with or against it playing as a mes for me

condi thief is like condi mes, exept it deals more damage, moves faster, is more tanky and more mobile.its better in every single way.

[lare.5129]

this is fake video!creator is platinum rank . He can take any build and do "easy kill" use normal players from silver.

[fumcheg.1936]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Koen.1327 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:

@Koen.1327 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:

@Koen.1327 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:tell me 1 reason to run mesmer while condi thief exists

adjust a little and condi thieves are no problem at all for mespower much harder

im talking about filling a role in 5v5 not thief v mes duels.

the same as always? what part of condi thief prevents running mes?

you can guess that 1 yourself

would be a shot in the blue, pls elaboratei wish more games were with condi thieves, rather than tempest, revs, nec which push out mes much morecondi thief hasnt had big impact playing with or against it playing as a mes for me

condi thief is like condi mes, exept it deals more damage, moves faster, is more tanky and more mobile.its better in every single way.

So? Why can't it be better than mesmer? Is there any special rule about it? And it cannot be better in every single way. It's all up to your own build.

[Leonidrex.5649]

@fumcheg.1936 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Koen.1327 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:

@Koen.1327 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:

@Koen.1327 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:tell me 1 reason to run mesmer while condi thief exists

adjust a little and condi thieves are no problem at all for mespower much harder

im talking about filling a role in 5v5 not thief v mes duels.

the same as always? what part of condi thief prevents running mes?

you can guess that 1 yourself

would be a shot in the blue, pls elaboratei wish more games were with condi thieves, rather than tempest, revs, nec which push out mes much morecondi thief hasnt had big impact playing with or against it playing as a mes for me

condi thief is like condi mes, exept it deals more damage, moves faster, is more tanky and more mobile.its better in every single way.

So? Why can't it be better than mesmer? Is there any special rule about it? And it cannot be better in every single way. It's all up to your own build.

im not saying it cant be, im saying it is. and what devs do about it is up to them not me or you or our vision of the game.

[AldKai.9712]

@"Vallun.2071" said:Remember when people said thief was unplayable a few weeks ago after the patch, and I had to come in and tell people thief was fine. Now when people are yelling that condi thief is too overpowered and brain dead, here I am to tell you that there are ways to counter play the build. Yes it is a bit strong right now, and I suggest that the duration of some of the condis be lowered, and the animation on shadow strike be increased.

More bad opinions from Vallun.

[Burnfall.9573]

@"Vallun.2071" said:Remember when people said thief was unplayable a few weeks ago after the patch, and I had to come in and tell people thief was fine. Now when people are yelling that condi thief is too overpowered and brain dead, here I am to tell you that there are ways to counter play the build. Yes it is a bit strong right now, and I suggest that the duration of some of the condis be lowered, and the animation on shadow strike be increased.

+10

Vallun, once again. Thank You! for being an honest Thief Professional player.

[Vallun.2071]

@AldKai.9712 said:

@"Vallun.2071" said:Remember when people said thief was unplayable a few weeks ago after the patch, and I had to come in and tell people thief was fine. Now when people are yelling that condi thief is too overpowered and brain dead, here I am to tell you that there are ways to counter play the build. Yes it is a bit strong right now, and I suggest that the duration of some of the condis be lowered, and the animation on shadow strike be increased.

More bad opinions from Vallun.

I guess CMC's opinions are bad as well, because when I asked him about it on the dev livestream he showed almost the same opinion as me.

https://clips.twitch.tv/EnticingBombasticBunnyPeoplesChamp

You can watch the clip yourself and see

[Koen.1327]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Koen.1327 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:

@Koen.1327 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:

@Koen.1327 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:tell me 1 reason to run mesmer while condi thief exists

adjust a little and condi thieves are no problem at all for mespower much harder

im talking about filling a role in 5v5 not thief v mes duels.

the same as always? what part of condi thief prevents running mes?

you can guess that 1 yourself

would be a shot in the blue, pls elaboratei wish more games were with condi thieves, rather than tempest, revs, nec which push out mes much morecondi thief hasnt had big impact playing with or against it playing as a mes for me

condi thief is like condi mes, exept it deals more damage, moves faster, is more tanky and more mobile.its better in every single way.

ofc not, you are comparing projectiles vs aoe melee shatter and the strength of each is situationalcondi thief has 2 dodges and then nothing, what tankiness is there? this is the weakest build for node sustain i've seen for thieves

yes it's strong and better suited in the current meta (as is power) but i still don't see why out of all condi thief checks out mesmes is more flexible and can fill more roles in 5v5, guess that's for me a reason to run it - mind you, 99% of the games is unorganized rated games

[AldKai.9712]

@Vallun.2071 said:

@AldKai.9712 said:

@Vallun.2071 said:Remember when people said thief was unplayable a few weeks ago after the patch, and I had to come in and tell people thief was fine. Now when people are yelling that condi thief is too overpowered and brain dead, here I am to tell you that there are ways to counter play the build. Yes it is a bit strong right now, and I suggest that the duration of some of the condis be lowered, and the animation on shadow strike be increased.

More bad opinions from Vallun.

I guess CMC's opinions are bad as well, because when I asked him about it on the dev livestream he showed almost the same opinion as me.

https://clips.twitch.tv/EnticingBombasticBunnyPeoplesChamp

You can watch the clip yourself and see

Ah yes one of the devs that made PvP into the hellscape that it is agreed with you about how hey guys the current cancer condi meta totally takes skill.

It's totally worth the recourse to authority.

EDIT: I bet you didn't even know that Endure Pain has no effect on condition damage. In fact nothing does. Every single defense in the game affects power, which requires three different stats to be effective. Only one single countermeasure exists for condition damage, and it's an active, costly one, aka cleanse. Power got nerfed while condi has not and any mesmer can do 22k damage from prone position and the average standing damage of most burn-focused classes is 54k over 8 seconds (and they say Power is burst-based...). That's why you're playing condi thief, and that's why, incidentally, you're defending it despite the blatant discrepancy with how unviable any build with power damage is at the moment. But you're hurting more than thief with this.

That's also why I don't let streamers and other professional socialites think for me.

[Arheundel.6451]

@AldKai.9712 said:

@Vallun.2071 said:

@AldKai.9712 said:

@Vallun.2071 said:Remember when people said thief was unplayable a few weeks ago after the patch, and I had to come in and tell people thief was fine. Now when people are yelling that condi thief is too overpowered and brain dead, here I am to tell you that there are ways to counter play the build. Yes it is a bit strong right now, and I suggest that the duration of some of the condis be lowered, and the animation on shadow strike be increased.

More bad opinions from Vallun.

I guess CMC's opinions are bad as well, because when I asked him about it on the dev livestream he showed almost the same opinion as me.

https://clips.twitch.tv/EnticingBombasticBunnyPeoplesChamp

You can watch the clip yourself and see

Ah yes one of the devs that made PvP into the hellscape that it is agreed with you about how hey guys the current cancer condi meta totally takes skill.

It's totally worth the recourse to authority.

I wonder how many AAA MMO games you have helped design or balance or maintain...ha yes...none