Why are we forced to play a mode if we dont like it?

[Deihnyx.6318]

The point is to get players to try everything game, and as a player who initially hated wvw, being forced to do it made me join a guild and I started enjoying it more. This is what Anet tries to do with Gift of Battle.Of course, it would work better if Anet would be more committed to improving WvW. Especially after we had a preview of what WvW could look like with the latest map. But eh, other story.

[Sleepwalker.1398]

@Tails.9372 said:

@Chaba.5410 said:The OP is complaining about being forced to play for a long term goal!Not quite, he complains about having to play a different game mode for a long term goal. Something which is only applied to a subsection of the mostly PvE based legendaries. A PvE player needs to play WvW in order to get Aurora but a WvW player doesn't need to play PvE if he wants to get Conflux. The main issue here is that it discourages players to go for them which wouldn't be much of an issue if we were talking about a couple specific ones but it becomes counterproductive if it's a general requirement for most of them.

Same argument can be put by a wvw player that they have to do a pve vanilla map completion in order to make a gen 1 legendary.Which takes far much longer than it takes the 8hrs to get a gift of battle.Speaking of Aurora, i have made it and it was pretty exhausting doing pve.

[Tails.9372]

@Sleepwalker.1398 said:

@Tails.9372 said:

@Chaba.5410 said:The OP is complaining about being forced to play for a long term goal!Not quite, he complains about having to play a different game mode for a long term goal. Something which is only applied to a subsection of the mostly PvE based legendaries. A PvE player needs to play WvW in order to get Aurora but a WvW player doesn't need to play PvE if he wants to get Conflux. The main issue here is that it discourages players to go for them which wouldn't be much of an issue if we were talking about a couple specific ones but it becomes counterproductive if it's a general requirement for most of them.

Same argument can be put by a wvw player that they have to do a pve vanilla map completion in order to make a gen 1 legendary.Not really, ignoring that you can just buy it from the TP, in this case it would still be a WvW player complaining about having to play PvE for a mostly PvE based legendary which would be more equivalant to a PvE player complaining about having to play WvW for a WvW based legendary like Warbringer. That being said I would support the idea of adding more legendary items to WvW including a legendary tier for the hero weapons.

[Shiyo.3578]

It sucks horribly but it only takes an hour or two to do WvW dailies every single day which is the most efficient way to get the gift of battle. You can just run around only PvEing and ignoring any PvP the entire time too generally.

[crepuscular.9047]

@lokh.2695 said:No one forces you to WANT a legendary.

If you want the thing, you got to do the thing. Sry m8.

exactly, if you want it, earn it, don't come whinge on the forum.

GW2's legendary weapons are so accessible compare to legendaries in WoW, which are both ridiculously expensive and RNGAs long as you put in a bit of time every day, it will accumulate and get your legendaries

I too do not enjoy WvW, usually I just go in, do the dailies (I usually skip Keep, and use the WvW Supplies to boost 2 Ranks) and get outsince started playing about 9 months out from launch of HoT, I've got 16 legendaries weapons, and 7 GoB sitting in bank; 5-7 were done back in the days when participation would reset back to 0 if you exits WvW for too long

[Sleepwalker.1398]

@Tails.9372 said:

@Sleepwalker.1398 said:

@Tails.9372 said:

@Chaba.5410 said:The OP is complaining about being forced to play for a long term goal!Not quite, he complains about having to play a different game mode for a long term goal. Something which is only applied to a subsection of the mostly PvE based legendaries. A PvE player needs to play WvW in order to get Aurora but a WvW player doesn't need to play PvE if he wants to get Conflux. The main issue here is that it discourages players to go for them which wouldn't be much of an issue if we were talking about a couple specific ones but it becomes counterproductive if it's a general requirement for most of them.

Same argument can be put by a wvw player that they have to do a pve vanilla map completion in order to make a gen 1 legendary.Not really, ignoring that you can just buy it from the TP, in this case it would still be a WvW player complaining about having to play PvE for a mostly PvE based legendary which would be more equivalant to a PvE player complaining about having to play WvW for a WvW based legendary like Warbringer.

Luckily its not a requirement for fractal backpiece that you have to buy a 300g commander tag.

[Chaba.5410]

@Tails.9372 said:

@"Chaba.5410" said:Why are you arguing semanticsBecause that's what the whole the opposition to the OP (and many like him) boils down to. Sure there is no "need" to remove these requirements (which I personally wouldn't) but there is technically no "need" to keep them either.

There is a need to keep them. Removing requirements devalues the actual legendary items (watch for the price drop on the TP) and the accounts with them. Supply of legendaries on the market would increase due to the removal of one of the "time and effort" gates and supply becomes more reliant on precursor drop rates and the supergrinders who craft them, though I could see that cost shifted to harvestable crafting materials through increased prices. There would be even less prestige to making and owning a legendary. People would buy them more than craft them.

@"Chaba.5410" said:The OP is complaining about being forced to play for a long term goal!Not quite, he complains about having to play a different game mode for a long term goal. Something which is only applied to a subsection of the mostly PvE based legendaries.

A PvE player needs to play WvW in order to get Aurora but a WvW player doesn't need to play PvE if he wants to get Conflux. The main issue here is that it discourages players to go for them which wouldn't be much of a problem if we were talking about a couple specific ones but it becomes counterproductive if it's a general requirement for most of them.

I'd agree that your argument is sound but the entire Gen1 line of legendary weapons, which still outnumber the Gen2 line, can be bought on the TP thus removing your point that there is a "general requirement [to get GoB] for most of them" and that players are discouraged.

Also, it's like saying remove map completion from the requirement because WvW players are forced to do it if they want "most of them" and having to do map completion discourages WvW players to go for them. I didn't want to get into that argument though because it's a stupid tit-for-tat that only ever stereotypes players, especially open world PvE players, and minimizes the role endgame design in GW2 has with why you need to play all aspects of the game as a long term goal. And you never address my point that WvW is still a subset of PvE in gearing and stat rulesets and pretty much always will be.

[Ashen.2907]

"Why are we forced to play a mode if we dont like it?"

We aren't.

[Astralporing.1957]

@Sorem.9157 said:If I have to put up with craptons of PvE and Achievement Hunting for my legendaries you can endure one reward track of wvw which you can get done in a couple of days.

The fact that Legendary Weapons have one element that REQUIRES you to WvW and have a lot of requirements that require you to PvE should be an issue for WvW players yet it is the PvE players that we see complaining.Perhaps they do not feel against PvE as strongly as many players tend to feel about PvP environments. If they did, then we would have seen threads about that.

Imagine yourself being somebody who despises PvE to the point of not being able to spend two days in it (time it requires you to finish a reward track with reasonable playtime for GoB). How would YOU feel about all the stuff you need to do in order to create a legendary weapon?If i were such a person, i'd definitely be justified in coming to forums and complaining about it. Since i have yet to see any such post (people tend to bring that up only as an counterargument against complaints), i guess the amount of such players is so small to be nearly non-existent though.

Truth be told, if you are into PvE you have and always will be privileged in these matters. Can't blame ArenaNet though, PvE is afterall, the most popular game mode and it is reasonable for them to invest into that. Doing this isn't exclusively to make you like WvW, in my opinion.Exclusively? Probably not. Primarily? yeah, it is. Though, like you later mentioned, it's not eaxctly about liking the content, but more about keeping you in it. The same issue as with the legendary envoy set - Anet didn;t care if the people going after it liked or hated raids, as long as the participation numbers looked good enough on their statistics spreadsheets.

Oddly enough, PvP and WvW players aren't making threads about this injustice and biasing towards PvE when crafting gear though.Then, like i said, they probably do not simply feel as strongly about that issue at all.

[ArchonWing.9480]

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@Sorem.9157 said:

Imagine yourself being somebody who despises PvE to the point of not being able to spend two days in it (time it requires you to finish a reward track with reasonable playtime for GoB). How would YOU feel about all the stuff you need to do in order to create a legendary weapon?If i were such a person, i'd definitely be justified in coming to forums and complaining about it. Since i have yet to see any such post (people tend to bring that up only as an counterargument

against

complaints), i guess the amount of such players is so small to be nearly non-existent though.

And I would reply in the exact same manner as I have here-- it's not justified at all.

There are many, many things I don't have because I choose not to do the requirements. That is something I accept, and I don't get why people insist on thinking their preferences alone should change the game. I don't do open world anymore, so I don't have any of the fancy advanced mounts like skyscale or whathaveyou. So when I go into Open World, I have to do things the old fashioned way while people jump around. And this is my choice. People put in the work and they should reap the rewards. The same goes with most legionaries. I will not bother with those HoT legendaries, and probably never will (well Ad Infinitum is on its way)

To be justified, you really need to explain rationally that you are suffering some kind of material loss or disadvantage. For example., access to an elite spec that affects gameplay everywhere is an issue. Not having a legendary does not exclude you from playing optimally in any area of the game.

And for what it's worth, I'm a WvW main and I've regularly suggested making Reward Tracks go much faster than they do, because it would be a QoL boost not just to regulars but just to anyone that enters. It would also greatly mitigate the issues here. However, I don't believe in handing people stujff, espeically for rather in my view-- frivolous reasons.

Whatever you view of legendaries is, it is clear that they are catered to a specific crowd with a lot of time and resources on their hands. If one is complaining about time, interest, or cost, there is still like 99% of the game left.

[Adonai.5071]

I saw two main arguments here:

1. "you dont have to. you dont need to" , if we extend this same logic then we all dont have to or need to play this game in the 1st place. This is a very bad idea for a game. If anet thinks like that game would be empty by now.
2. we had to go out from pvp or wvw to do pve for so and so, just a reminder, pve IS the game, the others are modes of the game.

I dont mind at all that each mode having its own unique independent gear, but since anet did mix them up like this, its better not to have an item that you cant get except by playing a certain mode whether you enjoy it or bore you to death. If they want to attract players to wvw, then adjust it to be more pleasant. You dont 'fix' a mode by dragging people into it, thats bad. You fix it by addressing its issues and why its not getting the desired attention. Or for the easier option, simply make wvw more profitable so the ones who actually like it or not disgusted by it will be playing it more. and the ones who dont like it can buy what is needed from those who enjoy it.

personally i like the old system more, you can buy item needed after wvw lvl 15 which gives players a good trial or taste of this mode, if a player enjoyed it they will continue playing it, if not then they can get what they needed and go do what they enjoy more

[Trise.2865]

I'll ask you then: Why are you playing this or any game at all if you feel like you're "forced" to play it? Shouldn't games be fun?Do you have so little agency in your life that you can't even control how you spend your leisure time?

[Sorem.9157]

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@"Sorem.9157" said:If I have to put up with craptons of PvE and Achievement Hunting for my legendaries you can endure one reward track of wvw which you can get done in a couple of days.

The fact that Legendary Weapons have one element that REQUIRES you to WvW and have a lot of requirements that require you to PvE should be an issue for WvW players yet it is the PvE players that we see complaining.Perhaps they do not feel against PvE as strongly as many players tend to feel about PvP environments. If they did, then we

would

have seen threads about that.

Imagine yourself being somebody who despises PvE to the point of not being able to spend two days in it (time it requires you to finish a reward track with reasonable playtime for GoB). How would YOU feel about all the stuff you need to do in order to create a legendary weapon?If i were such a person, i'd definitely be justified in coming to forums and complaining about it. Since i have yet to see any such post (people tend to bring that up only as an counterargument

against

complaints), i guess the amount of such players is so small to be nearly non-existent though.

Truth be told, if you are into PvE you have and always will be privileged in these matters. Can't blame ArenaNet though, PvE is afterall, the most popular game mode and it is reasonable for them to invest into that. Doing this isn't exclusively to make you like WvW, in my opinion.Exclusively? Probably not. Primarily? yeah, it is. Though, like you later mentioned, it's not eaxctly about

liking

the content, but more about

keeping you in it

. The same issue as with the legendary envoy set - Anet didn;t care if the people going after it liked or hated raids, as long as the participation numbers looked good enough on their statistics spreadsheets.

Oddly enough, PvP and WvW players aren't making threads about this injustice and biasing towards PvE when crafting gear though.Then, like i said, they probably do not simply feel as strongly about that issue at all.

The only "real" point you made is that you assume PvP and WvW players don't feel against PvE as much as PvE players feel against PvP and WvW.

Exactly what i said. Your argument is based of an assumption, which, as a PvP player i can testify to be false. Several of my friends simply don't go for a number of things (myself included) because they do not want to leave heart of the mists.

We get our sense of achievement through improving and honing our personal skills. Not being able to get a specific item will rarely cause any competitive player to come here and complain. It is not that we don't feel against PvE enough, its that we don't expect this kind of demand to be attended and choose to forefit the "shiny", but i guess taht if your main sense of achievement comes from collecting those shinies, it is understandable you feel frustrated. Though honestly my best advice is get used to it. It is "life".Keep that up and might aswell get a free pair of legendary weapons on character creation cuz ain't no way everybody is gonna be pleased. Imagine if legendaries were exclusively PvE? There is a considerable number of competitive players that would be utterly ignored. Now just for the heck of it, imagine the polar opposite, if all legendary weapons required you to do craptons of PvP and just a little bit of PvE (what I would personally prefer). The way it currently is is good and though not fair (to competitive players) it is the best that we will get. As a PvP man myself I don't mind having to hop into WvW for a couple days to get GoB. Y'all think it is basically the same thing but it isn't, it is like putting open world grinding in the same bag as raiding - different things.

Oddly enough, the PvE community is very vocal when they can't get the stuff they want. I don't know why. Raids are too hard, PvP is too hard, WvW is too hard, yada yada yada.

[Chaba.5410]

@"Adonai.5071" said:

2. just a reminder, pve IS the game, the others are modes of the game.

The game always consisted of PvE and the associated leveling/gear/stats and sPvP with it's rank/gear/stats. PvE mode is used by personal story, map completion/exploration, world bosses, WvW (unstructured PvP), dungeons then later fractals and raids and now strikes. sPvP mode is used by conquest and later deathmatch and stronghold. THAT is GW2.

If they want to attract players to wvw, then adjust it to be more pleasant. You dont 'fix' a mode by dragging people into it, thats bad. You fix it by addressing its issues and why its not getting the desired attention.

True, but remember the WvW requirement wasn't created to solve an issue that didn't exist at the time. It was created because they designed legendary weapons to be a crafting and cosmetic endgame for the entirety of the PvE mode and not one or two playstyles within that mode. What do you say to the player who feels forced to repeat hearts if they only like map metas and trains? Or to the player who likes messing around in unranked PvP but not tournaments?

personally i like the old system more, you can buy item needed after wvw lvl 15 which gives players a good trial or taste of this mode

The old system required map completion in WvW in addition to badges for the Gift. Anet made it easier to get by moving to a reward track.

And Anet is evolving the game to tie NEW legendary content to specific subsets of PvE which is a good way to introduce changes. Yet you still have to do all game modes and certain subsets if you want a full set of legendary trinkets to show off how much of the entire game you play.

[Strider Pj.2193]

@"Adonai.5071" said:I saw two main arguments here:

1. "you dont have to. you dont need to" , if we extend this same logic then we all dont have to or need to play this game in the 1st place. This is a very bad idea for a game. If anet thinks like that game would be empty by now.
2. we had to go out from pvp or wvw to do pve for so and so, just a reminder, pve IS the game, the others are modes of the game.

I dont mind at all that each mode having its own unique independent gear, but since anet did mix them up like this, its better not to have an item that you cant get except by playing a certain mode whether you enjoy it or bore you to death. If they want to attract players to wvw, then adjust it to be more pleasant. You dont 'fix' a mode by dragging people into it, thats bad. You fix it by addressing its issues and why its not getting the desired attention. Or for the easier option, simply make wvw more profitable so the ones who actually like it or not disgusted by it will be playing it more. and the ones who dont like it can buy what is needed from those who enjoy it.

personally i like the old system more, you can buy item needed after wvw lvl 15 which gives players a good trial or taste of this mode, if a player enjoyed it they will continue playing it, if not then they can get what they needed and go do what they enjoy more

And with that same old system you were required to map complete in WvW. Would you take that as well?

[kharmin.7683]

@Sorem.9157 said:Oddly enough, the PvE community is very vocal when they can't get the stuff they want. I don't know why. Raids are too hard, PvP is too hard, WvW is too hard, yada yada yada.

I would ask you not to paint the entire PvE community with such a broad brush. I am a very casual PvE player and do not fit your narrative. For me, it isn't that Raids/PvP/WvW are too hard; rather, that type of content doesn't appeal to me.

Perhaps contrary to what many might believe, even though GW2 was touted as having PvP/WvW at launch, those modes don't seem as poplular (or as populated) as PvE. With that, I feel, you get a certain crowd and lately some from that crowd have some sense of entitlement that stretches outside of the boundaries of their preferred mode.

But that's not all of us.

To the point, though. I will probably never get a legendary because I don't want to take the time/effort to go through everything to get one. I believe that they should be earned and that the method to do so should remain as it is. No one should be entitled to legendary items just because other players have them and that's how I see these threads when they come up.

[Luthan.5236]

Good news: You aren't forced!Most stuff can be played without legendaries. (Ascended have the same stats and even ascended aren't needed for most stuff.)

[Adonai.5071]

@Strider Pj.2193 said:

And with that same old system you were required to map complete in WvW. Would you take that as well?

i didnt mind it much, in fact i did it on 3 chars. its not my cup of tea as it was kinda time gated waiting for your server to switch colors but you check if what you need is controlled by your server, explore it and get out. it took 1 or 2 hours total per char to explore all wvw maps. while yesterday all afternoon not a single com on all 3 maps and you spend your time taking a camps waiting for invul period and hoping enemy take it back to trade participation for tiny progress per tick, oh the joy.

[kharmin.7683]

@Luthan.5236 said:Good news: You aren't forced!Most stuff can be played without legendaries. (Ascended have the same stats and even ascended aren't needed for most stuff.)

I don't think that's the point. To me, point seems to be the OP wants it rather than needs it.

[Spartacus.3192]

@Adonai.5071 said:Its more of a Note to devs:

(returning player.) why gift of battle needed for legendaries now only obtainable through reward track? if i hate wvw mode don't force me to play it. this will NOT help make me like wvw at all. it will just suck few days of disgusted playing time and contempt towards the game. Also, if anything it will make me forget about ever creating a new legendary again.

Why do i have to do map completion (PVE) to make legendary weapons? Why am i forced to play a game mode i hate. (i only wvw). Forcing me to do map completion will NOT help me like PVE at all. It will suck for the days/weeks it takes me to do map completion and generate contempt towards the game.

sense a pattern here.

[Adonai.5071]

@Sorem.9157 said:

Oddly enough, the PvE community is very vocal when they can't get the stuff they want. I don't know why. Raids are too hard, PvP is too hard, WvW is too hard, yada yada yada.

Generalization much without understanding. assuming there is a community solely for each mode finding this easy and that hard is wrong. Can't a mode be just plain boring without being hard? Here are examples: Before i took a break i done all contents (not related to wvw), i have probably played pvp as much as pve, more than 10k matches. But i never felt someone pushing me into it, there was no component for something in another mode that i coudnt get unless i play this mode for this much. its just i find wvw as a whole so effing boring and dull. also i know others in the game who are on the contrary, like and play pve and wvw a lot but wholeheartedly hate pvp. Its an issue of joyment and preference, if i dont like a certain mode i stay away from it and dont pursuit its special items as well, but i also dont like to be trapped and dragged to it. I find that as a cheap strategy to attract some population into it

[Kurrilino.2706]

@Trise.2865 said:You aren't required to have Legendary equipment, therefore the argument is moot.

If i read the OP correctly,the only thing he asks, if it is possible to obtain the parts you need in every game mode so you don't have to play a game mode you don't like.

There is no reason to ridicule him/her

[Strider Pj.2193]

@Adonai.5071 said:

@Strider Pj.2193 said:

And with that same old system you were required to map complete in WvW. Would you take that as well?

i didnt mind it much, in fact i did it on 3 chars. its not my cup of tea as it was kinda time gated waiting for your server to switch colors but you check if what you need is controlled by your server, explore it and get out. it took 1 or 2 hours total per char to explore all wvw maps. while yesterday all afternoon not a single com on all 3 maps and you spend your time taking a camps waiting for invul period and hoping enemy take it back to trade participation for tiny progress per tick, oh the joy.

So, based on this, would You advocate for people who do WvW as their primary mode that hate map completion, be allowed to get the ‘Gift of (WvW) Completion’ by doing map completion in WvW and being able to substitute this for the Gift of (insert maguuma mastery, POF maps mastery, map completion in WvW) ?

[Luthan.5236]

Well ... the legendary weapons are supposed to require more than 1 game mode.Those PvP/WvW trinkets afaik were meant to only require 1 game mode. But they have a flaw:The one for PvP still requires the gift from WvW while the one from WvW requires PvP stuff that can just be bought at the TP.

More like they should fix it and require you to play PvP instead of buying shards of glory for that one PvP gift that exists.Instead of making the other legendaries obtainable easier. Would devalue them.

[Kylden Ar.3724]

If you don't want to do the work, whip out your Credit Card, buy Gems, convert to gold, and buy the Legendary off someone who DID do the work.

@Adonai.5071 said:Not at all easier, we used to get badges from some kind of achievement boxes too, i have 10,000 badges and my wvw lvl is 15 because this level was needed to be able to buy the gift of battle from the npc

As a WvW main why do I have to go into PvE to get most the the achievement points, and the Gift of Exploration?

Cause it's ENDGAME content that requires doing more than one mode.