Roaming, How Do We Fix It?

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@UmbraNoctis.1907 said:

@kamikharzeeh.8016 said:[...]since 2019, when i entered Wvw first, basically everything that happened was making the life for casual roamerclasses like thief+ranger way more easy. no risk, still solid dps while ur target usually has not means to hit back, if u get pressure run away.

Roaming is in a terrible state, why else do you think there are so little of us left?Mounts massively hurt roaming. Lots of the guild upgrade stuff hurts roaming (too many automatisms and imbalance) Dmg nerf hurt roamers more than zergs, because it made supports and downstate op. Sustain nerf hurt roamers more, because they can't (don't want to) stack multiple supports to carry their kitten. But ofc you couldn't know, being arround for barely 2 years.

Also ganking isn't exclusive to roamers. Many zerglings will happily jump anyone fighting outnumbered - the definition of ganking.

Lastly, if you run arround alone on a build not meant to be played alone - don't expect to beat players that are actually playing builds suited for their playstyle. Has nothing to do with imbalance. Imagine i would bring my core ranger to a zerg fight and expect to strip as much boons as scourges. Ridiculous, isn't it?

So much this^

[Paradoxoglanis.1904]

Remove warclaw :)Allow superspeed to increase ooc movement speed to current warclaw speed? :oMake holding objectives worthwhile? :/Make capturing objectives worthwhile? :/Remove target cap on certain damage skills =)Remove lag :#Remove cheese builds ;)Lower sustain & get better balance :3New well designed maps <3New/secondary objectives? Bring back & redesign orb of power? :o??? :pProfit. B)

[Mike.3196]

most broken things that need to be fixed are shadow arts for thief, boon beast for ranger, holo,

[Riba.3271]

@Justine.6351 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@"Threather.9354" said:

5. Buff wall/gate HP and siege vs siege damage

Well roamers often lack numbers. They doubled siege HP vs siege in condi/crit change meaning even buying time against larger zergs isn't feasible anymore, rams just take laughable damage: even from treb behind the gate. Buffing wall/gate HP back up is to make up for all the defensive nerfs here (that were nerfed solely because taking objectives was too hard after they added fast upgrade times and claim buffs)

What is it with people and kitten backwards suggestions nowadays? Yes, the reason siege was buffed and cost nerfed was

because of roamers

. At that time when objectives had been buffed through the roof WvW gameplay completely ground to a halt because small groups - ie random roamers - could not siege effectivly. So no one bothered with it. You are literally saying lets do that all over again, make WvW boring.

Defense of objectives isnt about some roamer on a wall delaying a zerg. The roamer should see the zerg way ahead and warn.

That

is where you buy time. By roaming. The rest of the defense is contrary to popular belief... fighting the enemy and winning. If your server doesnt want to respond and actually rush to defend objectives before siege is even up because "thats ppt" well thats not a siege issue, thats a people issue.

Rofl he been pushing these agendas for wvw forever and anytime someone brings up a "fix" thread he comes in with those points and tries to tie them to said topic. Mounts, roaming, stealth, zerging, laserbeams... It doesn't matter ?

I remember a specific time I was roaming on home bl and while crossing ruins I came across a zerg with golems heading to gari. I let team chat know and followed them. By the time they got to inner gari we had a zerg sitting there on siege waiting for them. Pure carnage :p

Dude, claim buff is tied to any combat situation in WvW so obviously it is relevant.

The fact that the agendas have stayed same forever is much better than swapping them around every week.

And tbf I have opinions regarding lot of topics: Claim buffs, borderlands, upgrade times, dolyak buffs, siege damage, supply costs, shield gens, watchtower, packed dollies, combat gliding speed, superspeed, boon duration and many more. Bunch of those just happened to be roaming related. It doesn't take a genius mathematician to realise that runeset worth of stats that swaps sides regarding location ruined dueling and competitive roaming.

At least I suggest some actual wellthought changes while understanding all different kind of ways playing WvW (except roleplay).

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@Mike.3196 said:most broken things that need to be fixed are shadow arts for thief, boon beast for ranger, holo,

Yes roaming is crazy now so let's gut the best roamers, the only thing those classes are good at, good plan. Let's make the rest of the classes u do like the best at zerging and roaming lol.

[XenesisII.1540]

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:Yes roaming is crazy now so let's gut the best roamers.

Sounds like a plan.

[Kovu.7560]

@"Cynz.9437" said:And here we go, at one side zergs are kicking rangers and thieves due to last being "useless" on other side they complain about thieves and rangers "ruining" roaming. What a joke.

It's actually amusing. I've been referring to ranger as Schrodinger's profession forever now, though thieves apply too. Simultaneously overpowered and useless.

~ Kovu

[manu.7539]

Like it or not, if u talk about roaming, thieves and rangers annoyance will be part of the discussion. ANET must give them something else to do than only be an annoyance for other roamers, maybe the next specialisation will do it with some luck.

[Yasai.3549]

There is no way to balance WvW because PvE stats and Runes are really really strong.

The only way to balance WvW would be to implement an Amulet system but look where that got us for PvP.

Or maybe implement a Main Amulet Sub Amulet system and people can choose what their main stat(s) and sub stat(s) to be.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

@XenesisII.1540 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:Yes roaming is crazy now so let's gut the best roamers.

Sounds like a plan.

mesmer main spottedstill tho, nerf teef

! i was a necro main

[Shroud.2307]

Here are some of my thoughts from a thread I made a while back. Not all of this is directed at improving life for roamers/small scale, but much of it will be beneficial. I also think Mounts should be disabled in EBG all together because the map is too small, but maybe that's a topic for another discussion.

A couple additional notes are at the bottom to explain my thoughts for some of these ideas.

---

Improving Anzalias Pass

• Completely remove the upper half of the hill where the Vista is located so that the Keep has a clearer view of the Tower and can better defend from that location.This will also make it harder for larger groups to build Trebuchets on the hill that can currently reach both inner and outer walls of the Red Keep.

• Raise the entire tower so that it sits on higher ground.The Tower sits at the bottom of a valley which makes it impossible to build defenses on the walls. Standing on the upper part of the hill near the Dredge tunnels allows 1,200 range skills to hit anything on the walls. Siege built on the Vista hill can hit anywhere inside the Tower.

• Move Speldan slightly to the south and straighten the Dolyak's path toward Mendon so that it does not negatively impact the distance it needs to travel for that Tower.

These changes will improve the defenses of this Tower without removing counter play. Stonemist will still be able to treb the Tower, Catapults can still be built in various locations to hit the Tower, and it will still have 3 destructable walls (more than any other Tower in EBG).

Reference image

---

Retooling Mercenaries

You can now speak with the Veteran (and in the case of Hylek, the Champion) NPC in each of these camps for 2 options:

• Option 1) Hire escort.x1 Veteran and x1 "normal" Mercenary will escort a player where ever they go until they are killed or dismissed. Speaking with the Veteran in company will offer the option to send them away. This option is only available for a maximum of 2 players at a time.

• Option 2) Assassinate Dolyaks.Every second time a Dolyak spawns or returns to its camp of origin Mercenaries will set out to kill that Dolyak.

Mercenaries will no longer fortify Supply Camps.

---

Tactics changes

• Watch Tower will now only activate when the Structure takes damage or NPCs are aggro'd.
• Auto Turrets will now dismount players within 2000 range. Additionally, they will damage Siege Golems equivalent to Cannons and will prioritize firing at Golems.

[NEW Tactic and Trap]

"Sabotage Structure" - TacticSabotage Depot has been reworked and will now create an explosion localized to the Structure that destroys all Boons in addition to destroying all Supplies. This explosion does not limit Boon reapplication, has no target limit, and will only effect the new owners.

"Spike Strip" - TrapCosts 10 Supply to deploy. Place a trap that dismounts players and disables Mounting for 10 seconds.

---

Reworking Objective Defense Rewards and Improving Siege

Repairing Objectives no longer grants participation or reward.Being present for an Objective defense no longer grants participation or reward.

Engaging in combat (delivering or receiving damage) in the vicinity of a Structure contributes to Objective Defense and awards participation.

Siege changes

• Refreshing Siege grants a small amount of WXP with a cooldown of 30 minutes. Refreshing Siege within 10 minutes of its decay awards more.
• Hitting players with Siege contributes to Objective Defense.
• Ballistas deal reduced damage to players and increased damage to Dolyaks. Trajectory and velocity of skill #4 greatly improved

---

Miscellaneous

• Minis are now only visible to allied players.
• Daily Veterans removed.
• Event Champions (Arboreal Spirit, Overgrown Grub, Harpy Matriarch, etc.) removed.
• Hylek Mercenary camp Champion demoted to Veteran.
• Reduced size of platforms extending from the the 3rd floor of Stonemist Castle.
• All hostile mobs unrelated to Objectives (Mercenary Camps, Supply Camps, Sentry, Tower, Keep, Castle) are now neutral.

---

Mercenary escorts could be helpful for taking Supply Camps, especially for players that want to roam but are less skilled.

Watch Tower should only activate when the Structure takes damage or NPC's are aggro'd. I've felt this way for quite some time. It would allow smaller groups to prepare Siege before being spotted, and would allow roamers to more reliably enter Supply Camps that cross through Watch Tower range. This also promotes more active Scouting instead of always relying on the Tactic.

Minis should only be visible to allied players to prevent positions from being revealed when a group is trying to Stealth, but Minis should still be allowed (I like my Mini Shade, thank you).

Champions serve no purpose and 99% of the time no one attacks them. They're only there for when a zerg has completely dominated the entire map already. Hylek Champ is inconsistent with the other two Mercenary Camps which have Veterans.

Reducing the size of the top floor platforms in SMC makes it easier to counter Trebuchets that are built there, which currently cannot be countered unless you get through the outer wall and build an Arrow Cart beneath.

[Justine.6351]

@Threather.9354 said:

@Justine.6351 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@Threather.9354 said:

5. Buff wall/gate HP and siege vs siege damage

Well roamers often lack numbers. They doubled siege HP vs siege in condi/crit change meaning even buying time against larger zergs isn't feasible anymore, rams just take laughable damage: even from treb behind the gate. Buffing wall/gate HP back up is to make up for all the defensive nerfs here (that were nerfed solely because taking objectives was too hard after they added fast upgrade times and claim buffs)

What is it with people and kitten backwards suggestions nowadays? Yes, the reason siege was buffed and cost nerfed was

because of roamers

. At that time when objectives had been buffed through the roof WvW gameplay completely ground to a halt because small groups - ie random roamers - could not siege effectivly. So no one bothered with it. You are literally saying lets do that all over again, make WvW boring.

Defense of objectives isnt about some roamer on a wall delaying a zerg. The roamer should see the zerg way ahead and warn.

That

is where you buy time. By roaming. The rest of the defense is contrary to popular belief... fighting the enemy and winning. If your server doesnt want to respond and actually rush to defend objectives before siege is even up because "thats ppt" well thats not a siege issue, thats a people issue.

Rofl he been pushing these agendas for wvw forever and anytime someone brings up a "fix" thread he comes in with those points and tries to tie them to said topic. Mounts, roaming, stealth, zerging, laserbeams... It doesn't matter ?

I remember a specific time I was roaming on home bl and while crossing ruins I came across a zerg with golems heading to gari. I let team chat know and followed them. By the time they got to inner gari we had a zerg sitting there on siege waiting for them. Pure carnage :p

Dude, claim buff is tied to any combat situation in WvW so obviously it is relevant.

The fact that the agendas have stayed same forever is much better than swapping them around every week.

And tbf I have opinions regarding lot of topics: Claim buffs, borderlands, upgrade times, dolyak buffs, siege damage, supply costs, shield gens, watchtower, packed dollies, combat gliding speed, superspeed, boon duration and many more. Bunch of those just happened to be roaming related. It doesn't take a genius mathematician to realise that runeset worth of stats that swaps sides regarding location ruined dueling and competitive roaming.

At least I suggest some actual wellthought changes while understanding all different kind of ways playing WvW (except roleplay).

Objective claims don't win/lose fights.

[spectrito.8513]

There's no way fix roaming as long as warclaw exists the way it is.

It's a ganking machine, unless you play something with high mobility/stealth.It's not fun keep being chased to death

To make it less worse I would put a CD on it, it's just too spammable

[manu.7539]

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@"kamikharzeeh.8016" said:the thing is, gankers love that the regular builds cannot fire back effectively without having serious dmg on all the skills. dmg now comes from the builds.

man, i saw the NA streamer vallun, a spvp elite player, and even he got just noscoped by some silly ranger pew pew several times. thief and soulbeast builds are simple, not effort for absurd bursts. that is why those people use them.

nobody talks about oneshot there. but u don't get away in fives seconds from them, and no support in the world can tank a not braindead thief/ranger for too long, depending where u get caught.

50 players never fire on anything man. 2/3 of any zerg/blob are support classes. of all dps, about 10/30 do good damage even. deadly bomb/spikes can be of like 5-7 players.

u usually made a mistake there obviously, but the best FB can be stripped/corrupted + pulled + 11111'd down easily. this "1 player factank whole map" has never been, and will never be the case, and isn't matter of discussion.

i'm basically against nerfing stuff. and nerfing stuff against largescale (which happened a lot) and pro roamers (which could just go spvp anyways). the target cap remove alone helped roamers since they have usually no multitargetdmg. then came a general huge dps nerf. before came stab remove of healing skills. also general healing skills got nerfed.

also, these classes deal more damage bc they have fast followups that are quick hitting, and their targest usually don#t have a ton of evades and selfsustain equipped. it's not like roamers mostly duel, really not.u can argue that roamers isn't gankers, but u don't recognize that from afar - and if so, roaming is nearly dead. barely anyone runs around alone. the "famous" smallscale guilds are dedicated gankers also.

since 2019, when i entered Wvw first, basically everything that happened was making the life for casual roamerclasses like thief+ranger way more easy. no risk, still solid dps while ur target usually has not means to hit back, if u get pressure run away.

Thieves and rangers are the easiest professions to counter hands down , anectodal evidence of getting oneshot by something hiding in a tower means nothing

Plenty of drama and bias on this forum ,

do you really think that your class whatever it is goes unnoticed?

Want to talk about "easy to play?"

Guardian?

I can't bother to constantly link videos to prove fallacies in arguments

Its easy to find some unskilled thieves and rangers and make some vids and then say " I can't bother to constantly link videos to prove fallacies in arguments".

Guess we all know that most of them play these classes because they arent skilled enough to play other ones, it doesnt mean that rangers and thieves dont need to be nerfed.

And btw, this guardian is great but I win like 90%+ of my duels vs them and I'm good but not god... so its not by showing a very skilled guardian that u prove anything.

[manu.7539]

@spectrito.8513 said:There's no way fix roaming as long as warclaw exists the way it is.

It's a ganking machine, unless you play something with high mobility/stealth.It's not fun keep being chased to death

To make it less worse I would put a CD on it, it's just too spammable

I love warclaws! Anything that add mobility to the game is welcome, especially when u roam! Add some mobility to ur build then u might laugh at those chasing u :p

[Zyreva.1078]

@manu.7539 said:

@"spectrito.8513" said:There's no way fix roaming as long as warclaw exists the way it is.

It's a ganking machine, unless you play something with high mobility/stealth.It's not fun keep being chased to death

To make it less worse I would put a CD on it, it's just too spammable

I love warclaws! Anything that add mobility to the game is welcome, especially when u roam! Add some mobility to ur build then u might laugh at those chasing u :p

Double leap ranger - which is one of the more mobile specs in the game - can not get away from mounted players as long in combat (can't get ooc easily either vs multiple players). Which means entire zergs of zero mobility builds can easily chase me down, without having to spend any cooldowns or having to worry about counter pressure. "Some mobility" simply does not cut it anymore, stealth is pretty much mandatory if you want to be able to escape mounts. And since stealth is a lot less accessible than mobility, it definitely hurts some classes more than others. But yea, it is totally those op ranger and thieves, that prevent those poor necros from roaming ...

[lare.5129]

you don> @RlyOsim.2497 said:

'I win all my fights' aside, roaming is actual trash atm.

How is it fixed? Is it too far gone?Trash is a valid good solid state. So don't think tha something will change. More easy - change yourself..

[Arheundel.6451]

@manu.7539 said:

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@"kamikharzeeh.8016" said:the thing is, gankers love that the regular builds cannot fire back effectively without having serious dmg on all the skills. dmg now comes from the builds.

man, i saw the NA streamer vallun, a spvp elite player, and even he got just noscoped by some silly ranger pew pew several times. thief and soulbeast builds are simple, not effort for absurd bursts. that is why those people use them.

nobody talks about oneshot there. but u don't get away in fives seconds from them, and no support in the world can tank a not braindead thief/ranger for too long, depending where u get caught.

50 players never fire on anything man. 2/3 of any zerg/blob are support classes. of all dps, about 10/30 do good damage even. deadly bomb/spikes can be of like 5-7 players.

u usually made a mistake there obviously, but the best FB can be stripped/corrupted + pulled + 11111'd down easily. this "1 player factank whole map" has never been, and will never be the case, and isn't matter of discussion.

i'm basically against nerfing stuff. and nerfing stuff against largescale (which happened a lot) and pro roamers (which could just go spvp anyways). the target cap remove alone helped roamers since they have usually no multitargetdmg. then came a general huge dps nerf. before came stab remove of healing skills. also general healing skills got nerfed.

also, these classes deal more damage bc they have fast followups that are quick hitting, and their targest usually don#t have a ton of evades and selfsustain equipped. it's not like roamers mostly duel, really not.u can argue that roamers isn't gankers, but u don't recognize that from afar - and if so, roaming is nearly dead. barely anyone runs around alone. the "famous" smallscale guilds are dedicated gankers also.

since 2019, when i entered Wvw first, basically everything that happened was making the life for casual roamerclasses like thief+ranger way more easy. no risk, still solid dps while ur target usually has not means to hit back, if u get pressure run away.

Thieves and rangers are the easiest professions to counter hands down , anectodal evidence of getting oneshot by something hiding in a tower means nothing

Plenty of drama and bias on this forum ,

do you really think that your class whatever it is goes unnoticed?

Want to talk about "easy to play?"

Guardian?

I can't bother to constantly link videos to prove fallacies in arguments

Its easy to find some unskilled thieves and rangers and make some vids and then say " I can't bother to constantly link videos to prove fallacies in arguments".

Guess we all know that most of them play these classes because they arent skilled enough to play other ones, it doesnt mean that rangers and thieves dont need to be nerfed.

And btw, this guardian is great but I win like 90%+ of my duels vs them and I'm good but not god... so its not by showing a very skilled guardian that u prove anything.

It easy for me to deal with thieves and rangers because I am an ele main who can play/roam on other professions at the press of an esc button.

Those who ask for nerfs tend to be able to play a single class barely ....imagine an ele complaining about immobilize or lb ranger....tears start forming at the corners of my eyes...from laughing too much

Thief? ....boy...I faced top thieves in the past and it's wasn't a joy ride but luckily for you, most of them don't play anymore and if you on ele lose to what is left....It says everything about your skill level...I would worry about that rather than questioning others if I'd be you

In 2021 an ele asking for nerfs on thief...and you think to be good...deluded

[Arheundel.6451]

Ranger and thief are professions that play more and more effectively....the lower you go down on the skill ladder partaking the enemy

[bigo.9037]

@UmbraNoctis.1907 said:

@manu.7539 said:

@"spectrito.8513" said:There's no way fix roaming as long as warclaw exists the way it is.

It's a ganking machine, unless you play something with high mobility/stealth.It's not fun keep being chased to death

To make it less worse I would put a CD on it, it's just too spammable

I love warclaws! Anything that add mobility to the game is welcome, especially when u roam! Add some mobility to ur build then u might laugh at those chasing u :p

Double leap ranger - which is one of the more mobile specs in the game - can not get away from mounted players as long in combat (can't get ooc easily either vs multiple players). Which means entire zergs of zero mobility builds can easily chase me down, without having to spend any cooldowns or having to worry about counter pressure. "Some mobility" simply does not cut it anymore, stealth is pretty much mandatory if you want to be able to escape mounts. And since stealth is a lot less accessible than mobility, it definitely hurts some classes more than others. But yea, it is totally those op ranger and thieves, that prevent those poor necros from roaming ...

why are people obsessed with being chased by zergs? just respawn. take the L and go back it takes like 30-60s

[Riba.3271]

@Justine.6351 said:

@Threather.9354 said:

@Justine.6351 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@Threather.9354 said:

5. Buff wall/gate HP and siege vs siege damage

Well roamers often lack numbers. They doubled siege HP vs siege in condi/crit change meaning even buying time against larger zergs isn't feasible anymore, rams just take laughable damage: even from treb behind the gate. Buffing wall/gate HP back up is to make up for all the defensive nerfs here (that were nerfed solely because taking objectives was too hard after they added fast upgrade times and claim buffs)

What is it with people and kitten backwards suggestions nowadays? Yes, the reason siege was buffed and cost nerfed was

because of roamers

. At that time when objectives had been buffed through the roof WvW gameplay completely ground to a halt because small groups - ie random roamers - could not siege effectivly. So no one bothered with it. You are literally saying lets do that all over again, make WvW boring.

Defense of objectives isnt about some roamer on a wall delaying a zerg. The roamer should see the zerg way ahead and warn.

That

is where you buy time. By roaming. The rest of the defense is contrary to popular belief... fighting the enemy and winning. If your server doesnt want to respond and actually rush to defend objectives before siege is even up because "thats ppt" well thats not a siege issue, thats a people issue.

Rofl he been pushing these agendas for wvw forever and anytime someone brings up a "fix" thread he comes in with those points and tries to tie them to said topic. Mounts, roaming, stealth, zerging, laserbeams... It doesn't matter ?

I remember a specific time I was roaming on home bl and while crossing ruins I came across a zerg with golems heading to gari. I let team chat know and followed them. By the time they got to inner gari we had a zerg sitting there on siege waiting for them. Pure carnage :p

Dude, claim buff is tied to any combat situation in WvW so obviously it is relevant.

The fact that the agendas have stayed same forever is much better than swapping them around every week.

And tbf I have opinions regarding lot of topics: Claim buffs, borderlands, upgrade times, dolyak buffs, siege damage, supply costs, shield gens, watchtower, packed dollies, combat gliding speed, superspeed, boon duration and many more. Bunch of those just happened to be roaming related. It doesn't take a genius mathematician to realise that runeset worth of stats that swaps sides regarding location ruined dueling and competitive roaming.

At least I suggest some actual wellthought changes while understanding all different kind of ways playing WvW (except roleplay).

Objective claims don't win/lose fights.

Well remove 2 trinkets from your build and try fight/roam

[manu.7539]

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@manu.7539 said:

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@"kamikharzeeh.8016" said:the thing is, gankers love that the regular builds cannot fire back effectively without having serious dmg on all the skills. dmg now comes from the builds.

man, i saw the NA streamer vallun, a spvp elite player, and even he got just noscoped by some silly ranger pew pew several times. thief and soulbeast builds are simple, not effort for absurd bursts. that is why those people use them.

nobody talks about oneshot there. but u don't get away in fives seconds from them, and no support in the world can tank a not braindead thief/ranger for too long, depending where u get caught.

50 players never fire on anything man. 2/3 of any zerg/blob are support classes. of all dps, about 10/30 do good damage even. deadly bomb/spikes can be of like 5-7 players.

u usually made a mistake there obviously, but the best FB can be stripped/corrupted + pulled + 11111'd down easily. this "1 player factank whole map" has never been, and will never be the case, and isn't matter of discussion.

i'm basically against nerfing stuff. and nerfing stuff against largescale (which happened a lot) and pro roamers (which could just go spvp anyways). the target cap remove alone helped roamers since they have usually no multitargetdmg. then came a general huge dps nerf. before came stab remove of healing skills. also general healing skills got nerfed.

also, these classes deal more damage bc they have fast followups that are quick hitting, and their targest usually don#t have a ton of evades and selfsustain equipped. it's not like roamers mostly duel, really not.u can argue that roamers isn't gankers, but u don't recognize that from afar - and if so, roaming is nearly dead. barely anyone runs around alone. the "famous" smallscale guilds are dedicated gankers also.

since 2019, when i entered Wvw first, basically everything that happened was making the life for casual roamerclasses like thief+ranger way more easy. no risk, still solid dps while ur target usually has not means to hit back, if u get pressure run away.

Thieves and rangers are the easiest professions to counter hands down , anectodal evidence of getting oneshot by something hiding in a tower means nothing

It easy for me to deal with thieves and rangers because I am an ele main who can play/roam on other professions at the press of an esc button.

Those who ask for nerfs tend to be able to play a single class

barely

....imagine an ele complaining about immobilize or lb ranger....tears start forming at the corners of my eyes...from laughing too much

Thief? ....boy...I faced top thieves in the past and it's wasn't a joy ride but luckily for you, most of them don't play anymore and if you on ele lose to what is left....It says everything about your skill level...I would worry about that rather than questioning others if I'd be you

In 2021 an ele asking for nerfs on thief...and you think to be good...deluded

eh boy, I'm not here to flex... so go on with ur autopromotion as much as u want. For sure there is some good counter builds vs thieves and rangers but then its not necessary good builds to ur playstyle. Damage and sustain are nice but I'll not sacrifice my mobility just to say "It easy for me to deal with thieves and rangers". I deal with them by running away! :p

[Sobx.1758]

@manu.7539 said:

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@manu.7539 said:

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@"kamikharzeeh.8016" said:the thing is, gankers love that the regular builds cannot fire back effectively without having serious dmg on all the skills. dmg now comes from the builds.

man, i saw the NA streamer vallun, a spvp elite player, and even he got just noscoped by some silly ranger pew pew several times. thief and soulbeast builds are simple, not effort for absurd bursts. that is why those people use them.

nobody talks about oneshot there. but u don't get away in fives seconds from them, and no support in the world can tank a not braindead thief/ranger for too long, depending where u get caught.

50 players never fire on anything man. 2/3 of any zerg/blob are support classes. of all dps, about 10/30 do good damage even. deadly bomb/spikes can be of like 5-7 players.

u usually made a mistake there obviously, but the best FB can be stripped/corrupted + pulled + 11111'd down easily. this "1 player factank whole map" has never been, and will never be the case, and isn't matter of discussion.

i'm basically against nerfing stuff. and nerfing stuff against largescale (which happened a lot) and pro roamers (which could just go spvp anyways). the target cap remove alone helped roamers since they have usually no multitargetdmg. then came a general huge dps nerf. before came stab remove of healing skills. also general healing skills got nerfed.

also, these classes deal more damage bc they have fast followups that are quick hitting, and their targest usually don#t have a ton of evades and selfsustain equipped. it's not like roamers mostly duel, really not.u can argue that roamers isn't gankers, but u don't recognize that from afar - and if so, roaming is nearly dead. barely anyone runs around alone. the "famous" smallscale guilds are dedicated gankers also.

since 2019, when i entered Wvw first, basically everything that happened was making the life for casual roamerclasses like thief+ranger way more easy. no risk, still solid dps while ur target usually has not means to hit back, if u get pressure run away.

Thieves and rangers are the easiest professions to counter hands down , anectodal evidence of getting oneshot by something hiding in a tower means nothing

It easy for me to deal with thieves and rangers because I am an ele main who can play/roam on other professions at the press of an esc button.

Those who ask for nerfs tend to be able to play a single class

barely

....imagine an ele complaining about immobilize or lb ranger....tears start forming at the corners of my eyes...from laughing too much

Thief? ....boy...I faced top thieves in the past and it's wasn't a joy ride but luckily for you, most of them don't play anymore and if you on ele lose to what is left....It says everything about your skill level...I would worry about that rather than questioning others if I'd be you

In 2021 an ele asking for nerfs on thief...and you think to be good...deluded

eh boy, I'm not here to flex... so go on with ur autopromotion as much as u want. For sure there is some good counter builds vs thieves and rangers but then its not necessary good builds to ur playstyle. Damage and sustain are nice but I'll not sacrifice my mobility just to say "It easy for me to deal with thieves and rangers". I deal with them by running away! :p

So if you deal with them one way or another then what's the problem? :DSaying that there are ways to counter it, but trying to dismiss it "because not my playstyle" is kind of weak imo. Can be said right about anything else too.

[kash.9213]

@manu.7539 said:

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@manu.7539 said:

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@"kamikharzeeh.8016" said:the thing is, gankers love that the regular builds cannot fire back effectively without having serious dmg on all the skills. dmg now comes from the builds.

man, i saw the NA streamer vallun, a spvp elite player, and even he got just noscoped by some silly ranger pew pew several times. thief and soulbeast builds are simple, not effort for absurd bursts. that is why those people use them.

nobody talks about oneshot there. but u don't get away in fives seconds from them, and no support in the world can tank a not braindead thief/ranger for too long, depending where u get caught.

50 players never fire on anything man. 2/3 of any zerg/blob are support classes. of all dps, about 10/30 do good damage even. deadly bomb/spikes can be of like 5-7 players.

u usually made a mistake there obviously, but the best FB can be stripped/corrupted + pulled + 11111'd down easily. this "1 player factank whole map" has never been, and will never be the case, and isn't matter of discussion.

i'm basically against nerfing stuff. and nerfing stuff against largescale (which happened a lot) and pro roamers (which could just go spvp anyways). the target cap remove alone helped roamers since they have usually no multitargetdmg. then came a general huge dps nerf. before came stab remove of healing skills. also general healing skills got nerfed.

also, these classes deal more damage bc they have fast followups that are quick hitting, and their targest usually don#t have a ton of evades and selfsustain equipped. it's not like roamers mostly duel, really not.u can argue that roamers isn't gankers, but u don't recognize that from afar - and if so, roaming is nearly dead. barely anyone runs around alone. the "famous" smallscale guilds are dedicated gankers also.

since 2019, when i entered Wvw first, basically everything that happened was making the life for casual roamerclasses like thief+ranger way more easy. no risk, still solid dps while ur target usually has not means to hit back, if u get pressure run away.

Thieves and rangers are the easiest professions to counter hands down , anectodal evidence of getting oneshot by something hiding in a tower means nothing

It easy for me to deal with thieves and rangers because I am an ele main who can play/roam on other professions at the press of an esc button.

Those who ask for nerfs tend to be able to play a single class

barely

....imagine an ele complaining about immobilize or lb ranger....tears start forming at the corners of my eyes...from laughing too much

Thief? ....boy...I faced top thieves in the past and it's wasn't a joy ride but luckily for you, most of them don't play anymore and if you on ele lose to what is left....It says everything about your skill level...I would worry about that rather than questioning others if I'd be you

In 2021 an ele asking for nerfs on thief...and you think to be good...deluded

eh boy, I'm not here to flex... so go on with ur autopromotion as much as u want.

For sure there is some good counter builds vs thieves and rangers but then its not necessary good builds to ur playstyle.

Damage and sustain are nice but I'll not sacrifice my mobility just to say "It easy for me to deal with thieves and rangers". I deal with them by running away! ::pensive:

This guy is a like the spirit animal of the devs shake down thieves for more Initiative every update.

[Clownmug.8357]

@kash.9213 said:

@manu.7539 said:

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@manu.7539 said:

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@"kamikharzeeh.8016" said:the thing is, gankers love that the regular builds cannot fire back effectively without having serious dmg on all the skills. dmg now comes from the builds.

man, i saw the NA streamer vallun, a spvp elite player, and even he got just noscoped by some silly ranger pew pew several times. thief and soulbeast builds are simple, not effort for absurd bursts. that is why those people use them.

nobody talks about oneshot there. but u don't get away in fives seconds from them, and no support in the world can tank a not braindead thief/ranger for too long, depending where u get caught.

50 players never fire on anything man. 2/3 of any zerg/blob are support classes. of all dps, about 10/30 do good damage even. deadly bomb/spikes can be of like 5-7 players.

u usually made a mistake there obviously, but the best FB can be stripped/corrupted + pulled + 11111'd down easily. this "1 player factank whole map" has never been, and will never be the case, and isn't matter of discussion.

i'm basically against nerfing stuff. and nerfing stuff against largescale (which happened a lot) and pro roamers (which could just go spvp anyways). the target cap remove alone helped roamers since they have usually no multitargetdmg. then came a general huge dps nerf. before came stab remove of healing skills. also general healing skills got nerfed.

also, these classes deal more damage bc they have fast followups that are quick hitting, and their targest usually don#t have a ton of evades and selfsustain equipped. it's not like roamers mostly duel, really not.u can argue that roamers isn't gankers, but u don't recognize that from afar - and if so, roaming is nearly dead. barely anyone runs around alone. the "famous" smallscale guilds are dedicated gankers also.

since 2019, when i entered Wvw first, basically everything that happened was making the life for casual roamerclasses like thief+ranger way more easy. no risk, still solid dps while ur target usually has not means to hit back, if u get pressure run away.

Thieves and rangers are the easiest professions to counter hands down , anectodal evidence of getting oneshot by something hiding in a tower means nothing

It easy for me to deal with thieves and rangers because I am an ele main who can play/roam on other professions at the press of an esc button.

Those who ask for nerfs tend to be able to play a single class

barely

....imagine an ele complaining about immobilize or lb ranger....tears start forming at the corners of my eyes...from laughing too much

Thief? ....boy...I faced top thieves in the past and it's wasn't a joy ride but luckily for you, most of them don't play anymore and if you on ele lose to what is left....It says everything about your skill level...I would worry about that rather than questioning others if I'd be you

In 2021 an ele asking for nerfs on thief...and you think to be good...deluded

eh boy, I'm not here to flex... so go on with ur autopromotion as much as u want.

For sure there is some good counter builds vs thieves and rangers but then its not necessary good builds to ur playstyle.

Damage and sustain are nice but I'll not sacrifice my mobility just to say "It easy for me to deal with thieves and rangers". I deal with them by running away! ::pensive:

This guy is a like the spirit animal of the devs shake down thieves for more Initiative every update.

Every update or every 8 years?