perm stealth

[TrollingDemigod.3041]

On 5/18/2021 at 1:07 AM, kash.9213 said:

No, those are two different things.

 

Stealth is fine, you need to look at traits and kits. If you refuse to do that and just ask for general nerfs to a class because you don't like that class, that says everything we need to know about your argument, or lack of one. If you're not going to take this discussion seriously and are going to act like an infant you should just duck out and leave everyone else to it, these threads are spammed enough. 

Yes, you need to look at traits and kits and you still get the conclusion that Stealth is busted, because very often if not always the classes that abuse it have either quite high mobility, damage or can even stack the stealth itself or all of that combined in certain scenarios, so explain, how stealth is fine as a mechanic, which can be even stacked for prolonged amount of times.
Traps are (haha use x supps and hope that thief or anything else WILL on its own step on it or get marked by paint) worthless at best as a "counter" to that mechanic.
Stealth should last max 3s and then should get revealed with marked for another 3s, that should be minimum, then MAYBE it would be somehow acceptable as a mechanic.

[Jugglemonkey.8741]

On 5/18/2021 at 12:07 AM, kash.9213 said:

No, those are two different things.

 

Stealth is fine, you need to look at traits and kits. If you refuse to do that and just ask for general nerfs to a class because you don't like that class, that says everything we need to know about your argument, or lack of one. If you're not going to take this discussion seriously and are going to act like an infant you should just duck out and leave everyone else to it, these threads are spammed enough. 

 

The guy you're replying to actually reported me for exploiting the game once because he disliked being immobilised in old choking gas (when it dazed on pulse). I wouldn't bother trying to get a reasonable discussion out of him. 

[BeepBoopBop.5403]

On 5/11/2021 at 9:52 PM, jemdarr.2158 said:

As someone already said. The SA trait line needs a serious rework. It it too mandatory and way to strong compared to other trait lines. Yes, you can skip it for having a harder time but that's not an excuse for broken traits like:

Shadows Embrace

Shadow Savior

and three really strong GM traits and very strong Minors.

 

 

That's incredibly funny since I don't even remember the last time I've heard of anyone using Shadows Embrace or Shadow Savior lol. More like Deadly Arts and Crit Strikes and Acro are too weak, but that wouldn't result in a net nerf for thief for all the people that can't l2p against it would it....

Edited May 23, 2021 by BeepBoopBop.5403

[BeepBoopBop.5403]

FYI mounts are the reason nearly every solo player is a stealth thief these days. Solo on any other class means getting outnumbered and being chased down by braindeads with mounts that don't have to build for mobility at all because Anet gave everyone Dash Daredevil mobility. Nerf mounts to bring back variety in roaming.

[MaLong.2079]

I would like to see some official numbers showing average kill/death ratios per class and spec and game mode. It would be even better if they showed how the total of kills + deaths compare to the number of times those classes entered combat.

 

Not gonna happen. I know.

[Caedmon.6798]

6 hours ago, BeepBoopBop.5403 said:

FYI mounts are the reason nearly every solo player is a stealth thief these days. Solo on any other class means getting outnumbered and being chased down by braindeads with mounts that don't have to build for mobility at all because Anet gave everyone Dash Daredevil mobility. Nerf mounts to bring back variety in roaming.

True,i used to always roam on solo warri or duo in some cases.But with mounts thats no longer possible,so i switched to thief.

[anduriell.6280]

I had share my opinion i recognize stealth is a broken mechanic with no counter. And no, the bundles from wvw are not a solution as open the inventory while the thief is backstabbing you is a little too ironic. 

 

Do i think the thief could do without the stealth? no, I don't stealth is part of the mechanic of this class. Do i think it need a rework? Yes I do. 

The current mechanic is a PvE mechanic and that is not good in a PvP game mode. 

 

At this point from my point of view i see two options

• The easiest, Make stealth no stackable. That should solve the issue but it would make to play a thief class a real chore. 
• The one most mmos have gone for when they have stealth in a PvP game, show the character to close by enemies, it could be like using the invisible texture you see when you go into stealth, so the although the enemies can perceive you they have to be looking. 

 

 

 

[Quench.7091]

They could move stealth from a duration stack to a quantity stack, then make it into a evasion/stealth that ticks down after each hit taken. Would make stealth more effective in melee range, as well as make it limited in duration and present a counter in the form of traps and abilities with wide range AoEs. Different abilities could be given a different sizes of stealth stacks for easier balancing.

Edited May 24, 2021 by Quench.7091

[Bingus.4236]

Never really understand why players can stealth whilst in combat. Fine to sneak round the map and get the drop on people but the constant in and out of stealth for thieves in the middle of a fight where there are just these weird pauses, I don't see how that is fun and it's a free run away button on any class.  I've certainly used it with the gyro.

[saerni.2584]

On 5/7/2021 at 6:33 PM, kash.9213 said:

I'm sure you're joking but in WvW forum I can never be sure when something like that gets posted. 

It would be interesting to try to play DE with one hand. You'd probably not get to Stealth and Kneel at all though and that wouldn't be much fun but I'm sure an overpowered and easy to use DE, suggested by the word "successfully", would still clean up. 

You'd probably need an mmo mouse and some creative bindings to play some kind of limited version. But that would only let you win versus people who don't know how to play. 

[godz raiden.2631]

29 minutes ago, Bingus.4236 said:

Never really understand why players can stealth whilst in combat. Fine to sneak round the map and get the drop on people but the constant in and out of stealth for thieves in the middle of a fight where there are just these weird pauses, I don't see how that is fun and it's a free run away button on any class.  I've certainly used it with the gyro.

Lol what? First of all, Thieves have to enter stealth to access their hardest hitting attacks. Secondly, why would you need to stealth to sneak around the map? You can do that just by walking around, there aren’t thousands of players between you and where you’re going. And mounts exist. 
 

This is one of those weird, borderline role playing opinions. “Stealth should be sneaking around the map. Popping out of the shadows as you enter combat. Ooooo spooky thief.”

[saerni.2584]

15 hours ago, BeepBoopBop.5403 said:

 

That's incredibly funny since I don't even remember the last time I've heard of anyone using Shadows Embrace or Shadow Savior lol. More like Deadly Arts and Crit Strikes and Acro are too weak, but that wouldn't result in a net nerf for thief for all the people that can't l2p against it would it....

SE is good, but you lose access to stealth on steal and the deception skill cooldown reduction. It's actually a pretty decent trade-off that Anet added to SA a while back. 
 

Shadow Savior has me scratching my head. 
 

Everyone who thinks SA needs a rework are forgetting SA was already reworked somewhat recently. This is what Anet wants SA to look like (other than tweaking a number here or there for balance patches). 

[Bingus.4236]

1 hour ago, godz raiden.2631 said:

Lol what? First of all, Thieves have to enter stealth to access their hardest hitting attacks. Secondly, why would you need to stealth to sneak around the map? You can do that just by walking around, there aren’t thousands of players between you and where you’re going. And mounts exist. 
 

This is one of those weird, borderline role playing opinions. “Stealth should be sneaking around the map. Popping out of the shadows as you enter combat. Ooooo spooky thief.”

 

Well, my point was it's bad stop start combat that has one player just waiting whilst the other preps their next attack invisible. Yeah, I am sure there would be some practical issues but it wouldn't happen so doesn't matter.

 

Lots of times thieves are ambushing out of stealth,  I don't know what you think is weird about saying that.

[godz raiden.2631]

1 hour ago, Bingus.4236 said:

 

Well, my point was it's bad stop start combat that has one player just waiting whilst the other preps their next attack invisible. Yeah, I am sure there would be some practical issues but it wouldn't happen so doesn't matter.

 

Lots of times thieves are ambushing out of stealth,  I don't know what you think is weird about saying that.

 So stop/start combat is bad? Does that mean you also believe blocks are bad, evade frames are bad, and invulnerability is bad? Because all of those stop/start combat just as effectively if not more so in many cases than stealth does. 

 

I can't remember the last time I had a thief gank me out of stealth before I saw him coming. 

[Bingus.4236]

On 5/24/2021 at 4:28 PM, godz raiden.2631 said:

 So stop/start combat is bad? Does that mean you also believe blocks are bad, evade frames are bad, and invulnerability is bad? Because all of those stop/start combat just as effectively if not more so in many cases than stealth does.

 

No, they are not comparable.

 

 

On 5/24/2021 at 4:28 PM, godz raiden.2631 said:

I can't remember the last time I had a thief gank me out of stealth before I saw him coming. 

 

Well, that settles it then 🙄

[godz raiden.2631]

11 hours ago, Bingus.4236 said:

 

No, they are not comparable.

 

 

 

Well, that settles it then 🙄

I guess it does settle it, you haven't put forth any decent arguments here. 

 

Saying those things aren't comparable at all isn't really up for debate, btw. Stealth and other defensive mechanics are definitely comparable. They buy you time for other cooldowns, they allow you to reposition, they mitigate damage, etc. 

 

You're just wrong my guy. 

[Bingus.4236]

1 hour ago, godz raiden.2631 said:

I guess it does settle it, you haven't put forth any decent arguments here. 

 

 

 

Your singular personal experience is neither debatable or useful.  It just looked like blowharding.

 

1 hour ago, godz raiden.2631 said:

Saying those things aren't comparable at all isn't really up for debate, btw. Stealth and other defensive mechanics are definitely comparable. They buy you time for other cooldowns, they allow you to reposition, they mitigate damage, etc. 

 

You're just wrong my guy. 

 

The specific effects of a player being invisible for amounts of time during a fight is what I was referring to and that's why talking about other mechanics is just a deflection technique.

[BeepBoopBop.5403]

13 minutes ago, Bingus.4236 said:

 

Your singular personal experience is neither debatable or useful.  It just looked like blowharding.

 

 

The specific effects of a player being invisible for amounts of time during a fight is what I was referring to and that's why talking about other mechanics is just a deflection technique.

 

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Revealed

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Marked

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Target_Painter

 

There are more counterplays to stealth than ever, close the thread already.

Edited May 26, 2021 by BeepBoopBop.5403

[Anaide.8251]

Thief is the only class that gets to chose when to start a fight and when to finish it or abandon it, and nobody sees a problem with that. I am not going to change on a million classes so I can counter thief.

Does not matter how you look at it, it is a broken mechanic that Anet does now know what to do with it. Since they are under the NCSoft umbrella maybe have a look at their Ghost Hunter for example, it does not get to abuse stealth like a thief in GW2 but it hits hard like a truck.

Instead we are stuck in a merry go round with port, hit, stealth, steal, port, hit, stealth. steal, prancing like a ballerina.

I don't even bother with thieves anymore they are the ultimate pain in the kitten. 

[Jugglemonkey.8741]

13 minutes ago, Anaide.8251 said:

Thief is the only class that gets to chose when to start a fight and when to finish it or abandon it, and nobody sees a problem with that. I am not going to change on a million classes so I can counter thief.

Does not matter how you look at it, it is a broken mechanic that Anet does now know what to do with it. Since they are under the NCSoft umbrella maybe have a look at their Ghost Hunter for example, it does not get to abuse stealth like a thief in GW2 but it hits hard like a truck.

Instead we are stuck in a merry go round with port, hit, stealth, steal, port, hit, stealth. steal, prancing like a ballerina.

I don't even bother with thieves anymore they are the ultimate pain in the kitten. 

 

Yes, thief decides when to start/finish a fight because it has superior mobility and stealth, but if thief didn't exist it would be mesmers or engineers you'd be saying that about. As for the second part of the post, I'd have no problem with thief damage being upped and stealth access being reduced, but something tells me you and many others in this post would still be complaining even if that happened. 

 

Edit; As for your not wanting to change a million classes to counter thief, if I took that approach to conditions by refusing to change my build to have cleanses, what would be at fault? My approach, or conditions? Food for thought. 

Edited May 27, 2021 by Jugglemonkey.8741

[TrollingDemigod.3041]

On 5/26/2021 at 5:07 PM, BeepBoopBop.5403 said:

 

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Revealed

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Marked

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Target_Painter

 

There are more counterplays to stealth than ever, close the thread already.

Where are these counterplays?
Revealed - How many classes have access to it again?
Marked - Situational at best and static placement on maps. Isn't it actually a great example showing how kitten stealth really is, if you need to place something in towers to "deal with" stealth? 
Target Painter/&Trap - Is that new skill available on all classes skillbar? Oh wait, you need to use inventory, buy it and even pay supplies to use it, which doesn't guarantee that it'll hit teef in the first place and still have quite long cooldown.

[Jugglemonkey.8741]

1 minute ago, TrollingDemigod.3041 said:

Where are these counterplays?
Revealed - How many classes have access to it again?
Marked - Situational at best and static placement on maps. Isn't it actually a great example showing how kitten stealth really is, if you need to place something in towers to "deal with" stealth? 
Target Painter/&Trap - Is that new skill available on all classes skillbar? Oh wait, you need to use inventory, buy it and even pay supplies to use it, which doesn't guarantee that it'll hit teef in the first place and still have quite long cooldown.

 

Revealed is accessible to necro, guardian, revenant, warrior, ranger and engineer, the last three of which have enough revealed to completely shut down a stealth thief. Of the classes remaining, ele can sustain most thieves' damage long enough to reach safety, and arguably mesmer and thief shouldn't have access to revealed anyways but they do have revealed access through target painters. 

 

Marked is situational, sure, but if you choose not to take advantage of it when there's a thief jumping you and you're in range of a sentry/tower then that's hardly the thief's fault is it?

 

Target and painter traps have a cost, yes, but you'd not be complaining about the cost if there was a similar thing that disabled firebrand's tomes in WvW, now would you? Odds are you'd be saying that consumables that disable profession mechanics shouldn't be a thing, just like the thief playerbase has been saying for years, but let's leave that aside for now. 

 

Yes, a target painter isn't guaranteed to hit a thief, but neither is a reveal or a CC. That's why you wait for the thief to place a smoke field then you throw the target painter on the smoke field, it has a surprisingly high range and it can't be dodged. If you insist on refusing to acknowledge something is a counter to something else because it might fail, then literally everything in the game is uncounterable by your definition.. 

[Anaide.8251]

2 hours ago, Jugglemonkey.8741 said:

 

Yes, thief decides when to start/finish a fight because it has superior mobility and stealth, but if thief didn't exist it would be mesmers or engineers you'd be saying that about. As for the second part of the post, I'd have no problem with thief damage being upped and stealth access being reduced, but something tells me you and many others in this post would still be complaining even if that happened. 

 

Edit; As for your not wanting to change a million classes to counter thief, if I took that approach to conditions by refusing to change my build to have cleanses, what would be at fault? My approach, or conditions? Food for thought. 

You are missing the point, the stealth is not the problem, the infinite stealth is the problem. Every player I have met so far said the same thing: remove stealth from WvW this came from engineers, mesmers and thieves included. 

Are you seriously comparing condition cleansing (which is easy an accessible) with a perma stealth bot? Think of this scenario you log into, do you thing then boom a thief, and you are like "oh yeah hold up let me switch to something else" seriously nobody has time for that pony show.

Like I said it all they need to do is look at NCSoft and L2, that's it, and then maybe decide what they want their thief to do. At the current moment it is the master of ninja scenarios that hits from the shadow, barely gets hit, revealed taken down. 

You really see no problem with this? If so then we can assume you play the perma stealth, and at the end of the day it does not even matter, we are  just players venting. Highly doubt Anet would even take this into consideration this: next patch "yes after hearing the community we do see the problems with thief" #doubt.

[kash.9213]

2 hours ago, Anaide.8251 said:

You are missing the point, the stealth is not the problem, the infinite stealth is the problem. Every player I have met so far said the same thing: remove stealth from WvW this came from engineers, mesmers and thieves included. 

Are you seriously comparing condition cleansing (which is easy an accessible) with a perma stealth bot? Think of this scenario you log into, do you thing then boom a thief, and you are like "oh yeah hold up let me switch to something else" seriously nobody has time for that pony show.

Like I said it all they need to do is look at NCSoft and L2, that's it, and then maybe decide what they want their thief to do. At the current moment it is the master of ninja scenarios that hits from the shadow, barely gets hit, revealed taken down. 

You really see no problem with this? If so then we can assume you play the perma stealth, and at the end of the day it does not even matter, we are  just players venting. Highly doubt Anet would even take this into consideration this: next patch "yes after hearing the community we do see the problems with thief" #doubt.

If they were "perma stealth" they'd never do any damage. If they're staggering stealth sources then that's fair. What exactly is not fair about having to adjust your build to match up better in a fight? I switch builds a lot and it's on me if I refuse to. Are you seriously trying to say that it's only a fair fight as long as you have the build you want and everyone else has builds that you can counter but are not ready to compete with the one you chose to run out with? 

 

"barely getting hit" is just a wrong take and you're dirty for that but whatever. Shadow Meld is one of the few things I think needs to be replaced on DE or changed heavily, it's just not needed and takes a slot that could be dedicated to making Kneel stance more engaging and competitive. But it's like Dash with heavy utility kits, people see one thing or combo overperforming and claim the whole class can do everything at once. 

[Sobx.1758]

2 hours ago, Anaide.8251 said:

You are missing the point, the stealth is not the problem, the infinite stealth is the problem. Every player I have met so far said the same thing: remove stealth from WvW this came from engineers, mesmers and thieves included. 

You claim he's missing the point because it's only the infinite stealth that's the problem and then immediately go on with people saying "remove stealth from wvw"? 🙃 Your message seems slightly all over the place to me.