I was told ranger is more mobile that thief, is this true?

[miifi.2150]

I was told ranger is more mobile that thief, is this true?

Edited May 6, 2021 by miifi.2150

[Abyssisis.3971]

Lol no.

[Leonidrex.5649]

nothing is more mobile then thief
dont believe in thief propaganda 

Edited May 6, 2021 by Leonidrex.5649

[miifi.2150]

A thief told me that 😀 thank you

[Jugglemonkey.8741]

Ranger isn't more mobile than thief over a distance, no. In a straight line on flat terrain, if built for it, yeah, a ranger can outrun a thief for a short distance if it's just wanting to run to the nearest tower. The thief will catch up after that however, and will still have the option of teleporting back the way it came while the ranger will be out of mobility skills. If that happens, you're actually best off hitting the thief as hard as you can because if he burnt all his initiative in order to chase he'll have nothing except shortbow auto to attack with, while you have full offensive cooldowns ready. He will generally either die or be forced to disengage entirely then. Also, if the terrain is uneven, the thief will always have better mobility, so pick your spot well. 

[Zyreva.1078]

50 minutes ago, Jugglemonkey.8741 said:

Ranger isn't more mobile than thief over a distance, no. In a straight line on flat terrain, if built for it, yeah, a ranger can outrun a thief for a short distance if it's just wanting to run to the nearest tower. The thief will catch up after that however, and will still have the option of teleporting back the way it came while the ranger will be out of mobility skills. If that happens, you're actually best off hitting the thief as hard as you can because if he burnt all his initiative in order to chase he'll have nothing except shortbow auto to attack with, while you have full offensive cooldowns ready. He will generally either die or be forced to disengage entirely then. Also, if the terrain is uneven, the thief will always have better mobility, so pick your spot well. 

Even when it comes to "burst mobility" thief is better than ranger. SS, SB5, Dash covers about the same distance within similar time as double swoop, and the latter can be shut down with interrupts/immob, unlike teleports. Mobility of thief is simply unparalleled. Building for high mobility on ranger also comes with significant trade-offs (no smokescale on slb, no ranged weapon on core), while for thief it is just part of the meta build(s).

[Tazer.2157]

Not in terms of movement but I’d say it’s close when it comes to combat if you are using the longbow and sword/warhorn. The sword gives you the leap that you can use to create distance and using the longbow you can pressure from a distance. If you are using the smokescale, you can combo the leap or warhorn 5 with the smoke field to go invisible. This makes it very unpredictable where you attack from unlike the thief who needs to get close. It’s the most fun you can have with the class. This style of play is mostly useful only in pvp tho. 

[bigo.9037]

5 hours ago, UmbraNoctis.1907 said:

Even when it comes to "burst mobility" thief is better than ranger. SS, SB5, Dash covers about the same distance within similar time as double swoop, and the latter can be shut down with interrupts/immob, unlike teleports. Mobility of thief is simply unparalleled. Building for high mobility on ranger also comes with significant trade-offs (no smokescale on slb, no ranged weapon on core), while for thief it is just part of the meta build(s).

You are 100% correct. Using bird is a huge sacrifice unless you run a tanky boon setup, in which case you can survive without stealth. 
 

ppl also forget that teleports are instant whereas leaps actually take a while to use. So while ranger can hit from 1200-1600~ range on longbow, mobility doesn’t even come close to thief unless you wanna handicap yourself just to be able to somewhat catch up to a thief.

 

 

[Tinkerer.2167]

2 hours ago, Tazer.2157 said:

Not in terms of movement but I’d say it’s close when it comes to combat if you are using the longbow and sword/warhorn. The sword gives you the leap that you can use to create distance and using the longbow you can pressure from a distance. If you are using the smokescale, you can combo the leap or warhorn 5 with the smoke field to go invisible. This makes it very unpredictable where you attack from unlike the thief who needs to get close. It’s the most fun you can have with the class. This style of play is mostly useful only in pvp tho. 

sword warhorn is probably the 2 worst weapons ranger has in pvp, even offhand axe is better than warhorn in pvp. most run clarion and smoke field on swap for invis, much more reliable than having to hold a useless weapon.

Edited May 6, 2021 by Tinkerer.2167

[Gotejjeken.1267]

3 hours ago, Tazer.2157 said:

Not in terms of movement but I’d say it’s close when it comes to combat if you are using the longbow and sword/warhorn. The sword gives you the leap that you can use to create distance and using the longbow you can pressure from a distance. If you are using the smokescale, you can combo the leap or warhorn 5 with the smoke field to go invisible. This makes it very unpredictable where you attack from unlike the thief who needs to get close. It’s the most fun you can have with the class. This style of play is mostly useful only in pvp tho. 

 

I dunno about PvP but have tried this many times in WvW.  Practically, it doesn't work as well as it should, mainly because sword leap range is pretty abysmal. 

 

Like yes, you can kite and yes if you set pet to passive you can use the smokefield pretty well, but running that setup you only have literally two leaps (maybe three with monarch/hornet combo but it's flakey), a dodge (serpent strike), and smokefield blast.   Switching to LB at the wrong time is a death sentence as it may be the least mobile thing Ranger has--actually, is, because even MH axe is meant to use while moving.  

 

Your best mobility tools are hands down GS and Staff.  As Druid main I'm probably biased but Staff to me is the most mobile and versatile kiting tool we have; I like GS, but it is melee and that can be a big problem sometimes.  Staff on the other hand is ranged but cannot be projectile blocked, and thus can chain immob off it with pet CC to escape even better.  

 

All that said, no Ranger is not more mobile than thief.  As others have pointed out CC is a huge pain point for practically any Ranger mobility when not running Dolyak Stance.  Even in stealth it is entirely possible to get randomly CC'd with no recovery option outside of burning a literal survival skill (lightning reflexes, etc.).  You do that and just immediately get chain CC'd and are done.  

[Kovu.7560]

Honestly, in 2021 I'd put double-leap soulbeast and staff/greatsword druid in 3rd or 4th behind thief, scrapper/holo (perma superspeed and holo leaps) & possibly an invested mesmer. That said I'd put druid/soulbeast ahead of warrior which is somewhat amusing as that was the profession for mobility back during core. It's a little weird to think that in terms of mobility warriors could be as low as 5th on the totem pole today, considering they're generally utilizing melee-oriented builds with no access to stealth, (which ranger, mes, thief and engi all have plenty of.)

Rangers are probably the best answer for annoying thieves though. (You know, apart from another thief.) You just have to not get caught with your pants down.

~ Kovu

Edited May 6, 2021 by Kovu.7560

[Dragonzhunter.8506]

Thief is the best roamer atm. He has the best mobility/disengage skills. 

As a thief, you are dying only if you are too greedy.

In any roaming group, the thief is the one with the most kills and the fewest deaths.

[Leonidrex.5649]

7 hours ago, bigo.9037 said:

You are 100% correct. Using bird is a huge sacrifice unless you run a tanky boon setup, in which case you can survive without stealth. 
 

ppl also forget that teleports are instant whereas leaps actually take a while to use. So while ranger can hit from 1200-1600~ range on longbow, mobility doesn’t even come close to thief unless you wanna handicap yourself just to be able to somewhat catch up to a thief.

 

 

ranger LB has around 1800 range, my best estimate is around ~1850
 

[Choppy.4183]

4 hours ago, Kovu.7560 said:

I'd put druid/soulbeast ahead of warrior which is somewhat amusing as that was the profession for mobility back during core. It's a little weird to think that in terms of mobility warriors could be as low as 5th on the totem pole today, considering they're generally utilizing melee-oriented builds with no access to stealth, (which ranger, mes, thief and engi all have plenty of.)

 

Feels bad, man. Feels real bad. Couple that with a 25% damage cut and formerly useful traits with 5 min ICDs and that's why I roll as a ranger now....

[bigo.9037]

14 hours ago, Leonidrex.5649 said:

ranger LB has around 1800 range, my best estimate is around ~1850
 

It depends how vertical you are. In desert BL I think you can get up to 2000 range or so because you’ll be shooting diagonally, down on a target from above.

[ASP.8093]

Thieves have the most mobility in terms of both volume and variety of abilities. Shortbow 5, Sword 2, and Shadowstep excel in situations where you can play around terrain. Shadow Portal is amazingly powerful and you don't even have to care about the map mesh, but often goes unused because you simply don't need it.

 

That said, there are several classes that, if built for high escape potential, can run away from a thief successfully. To do that, you need:

1. Mobility. Self-explanatory.

2. Misdirection. Stealth is a great escape tool because it buys you a few seconds where your opponent can't reliably match your movement. This is a big part of what makes thieves great at disengaging, too.

3. Threat. Like one-shot CC+burst potential. It's a lot easier to run away if your opponent has to think twice before blowing all their cooldowns to chase you down since you can just turn-and-burn on them.

It's not about being faster than a thief, it's about having a good baseline of mobility and then playing into the asymmetry between chasing someone and running away.

[CETheLucid.3964]

Not by a long shot. Ranger mobility is really good (maybe second or third best) but it's not Thief good. Thief is peerless for being able engage and disengage at will.

[Tazer.2157]

On 5/6/2021 at 11:11 PM, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

 Switching to LB at the wrong time is a death sentence as it may be the least mobile thing Ranger has--actually, is, because even MH axe is meant to use while moving.  

 

 

The longbow has a knockback and a stealth skill. The 5 is also a cripple if I'm not mistaken. If you use the skirmisher traitline, you get a grandmaster that decreases the recharge time of any weapon skill used soon after a weapon swap. This is what defines the build and the kiting ability. If you can time it well, the longbow and the sword is hands down the best weapon to face most classes. No one can literally even get to you and you can run circles around them. 

 

On 5/6/2021 at 11:11 PM, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

 

Your best mobility tools are hands down GS and Staff.  As Druid main I'm probably biased but Staff to me is the most mobile and versatile kiting tool we have; I like GS, but it is melee and that can be a big problem sometimes.  Staff on the other hand is ranged but cannot be projectile blocked, and thus can chain immob off it with pet CC to escape even better.  

 

This is correct if you are talking about movement. The GS and staff allows the ranger to cover more distance. But they are very limited in combat IMO.

[Gotejjeken.1267]

21 minutes ago, Tazer.2157 said:

 

The longbow has a knockback and a stealth skill. The 5 is also a cripple if I'm not mistaken. If you use the skirmisher traitline, you get a grandmaster that decreases the recharge time of any weapon skill used soon after a weapon swap. This is what defines the build and the kiting ability. If you can time it well, the longbow and the sword is hands down the best weapon to face most classes. No one can literally even get to you and you can run circles around them. 

 

This is correct if you are talking about movement. The GS and staff allows the ranger to cover more distance. But they are very limited in combat IMO.

 

All of which can be obstructed or LoS'd very easily.  Quick Draw is also 'bugged' where it works after certain things it probably shouldn't that count as swaps (Celestial Avatar being the big offender as it changes your bar).  

 

So for mobility I'm talking about things that have built in mobility skills (leaps / evades); LB and MH axe have none of these.  

 

Also, from a pure WvW standpoint I don't think I've seen another ranger run MH sword (maybe on a condi build with torch but that's like 1 in a 1000)...GS yes, but never sword.  From playing Ranger for nearly 3k hours myself I can say it's because the sword has kiting but lacks both utility and damage.

 

Staff is definitely not limited in combat, but it does take a lot of getting used to.  Essentially you never use it for anything but kiting, except to recharge CA in short bursts.  If not used like that then I can see where you'd think it isn't a good weapon.  

[Teratus.2859]

Ranger can have a decent amount of mobility but you have to build for it.

Thieves on the other hand generally have tons of it on most builds.. plus far more and easier access to stealth which is by far the cheapest mechanic in the game.

[InsaneQR.7412]

Running in one singular direction? Yes. But only as a soulbest with bird/canine and GS and sword.

 

General mobility and disengage potential?

Lol, no.

[ASP.8093]

3 hours ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

Quick Draw is also 'bugged' where it works after certain things it probably shouldn't that count as swaps (Celestial Avatar being the big offender as it changes your bar). 

I think that's pretty standard, just like Rev Legend swaps, Ele Element swap, and Eng Kit swaps all trigger "on swap" abilities and sigils.

[Leonidrex.5649]

38 minutes ago, ASP.8093 said:

I think that's pretty standard, just like Rev Legend swaps, Ele Element swap, and Eng Kit swaps all trigger "on swap" abilities and sigils.

As per wording its bugged, quote of the skill.
When swapping weapons, the next ranger weapon skill you use will recharge faster.
In theory if it worked as worded, it would trigger on celestial avatar, and go on cooldown.
And do nothing as none of celestial avatar skills are " weapon skills " 
 

[Jugglemonkey.8741]

On 5/6/2021 at 12:15 PM, UmbraNoctis.1907 said:

Even when it comes to "burst mobility" thief is better than ranger. SS, SB5, Dash covers about the same distance within similar time as double swoop, and the latter can be shut down with interrupts/immob, unlike teleports. Mobility of thief is simply unparalleled. Building for high mobility on ranger also comes with significant trade-offs (no smokescale on slb, no ranged weapon on core), while for thief it is just part of the meta build(s).

 

Yeah, for sure, but then the thief is forced to swap off it's DPS set to shortbow which means it has limited damage for a time, and then since infiltrator's arrow now costs 8 ini the thief is then forced to use most if not all of it's ini to chase. I'm not saying ranger is always more mobile, simply that it has good mobility that can force a thief to burn cooldowns to keep up. That's the important part as most of the time you don't actually need to outrun a thief in a 1v1, just run far enough to force them to swap to shortbow then turn and burn them. 

Edited May 8, 2021 by Jugglemonkey.8741

[Zyreva.1078]

8 hours ago, Jugglemonkey.8741 said:

 

Yeah, for sure, but then the thief is forced to swap off it's DPS set to shortbow which means it has limited damage for a time, and then since infiltrator's arrow now costs 8 ini the thief is then forced to use most if not all of it's ini to chase. I'm not saying ranger is always more mobile, simply that it has good mobility that can force a thief to burn cooldowns to keep up. That's the important part as most of the time you don't actually need to outrun a thief in a 1v1, just run far enough to force them to swap to shortbow then turn and burn them. 

But ranger also has to swap to gs and that weapon is easily kited, so thief on sb will have an easy time avoiding dmg while being able to deal dmg himself. It will be the ranger, that loses pressure when running, not the thief (sb2 is one of the harder hitting thief skills, higher dmg coeff. than maul btw). And when it comes to catching someone and not just running away, then thief doesn't even need to swap to sb, as there are also also shadowshot and steal, which doesn't only close the gap, but also prevent quick counter pressure with blind or cc (weakness also helps with that). Thief also has the option to interrupt ranger's leaps, then a ranger can't go anywhere.

The argument that thief "has to use cooldowns" is also kinda moot because guess what, everything has to use cooldowns to do anything. Except of thief, which regains initiative much faster than other classes their cds.

 

Just because sometimes a ranger will get away from a thief or even kills the latter, it doesn't change the fact, that thief is always more mobile than ranger.