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Why does reaper?


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15 minutes ago, bethekey.8314 said:

I don't have a particularly strong opinion on this, one way or another.

 

But I see a lot of comments that dismiss OP's points with:

- Reaper gets tossed around (apparently more than other classes?) @Shao.7236@Shrapnel.7249

- X is stronger @Aodlop.1907@razaelll.8324

- Learn to counter it @Spellhunter.9675@Halikus.1406

 

Can you all go into detail about these?

- From what I've seen, Reaper has decent access to stability when it needs it (i.e. in melee). It dashes in, projectile blocking anything, AoE stuns, and does such high damage the enemy's main concern is to get away. Holo has a slightly similar style (darting between range and melee), but had its stability removed.

- Saying X is still stronger is a terrible argument. Things can be overpowered at the same time and they don't necessarily need to be fixed in a particular order.

- PvP improves when people learn how to play. Don't just say learn. If you took the time to respond, teach.

 

In a nutshell:

 

Every time Reaper turns its shroud off, it is extremely vulnerable to burst death with little defenses to support itself.

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1 hour ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

In a nutshell:

 

Every time Reaper turns its shroud off, it is extremely vulnerable to burst death with little defenses to support itself.

 

I'm not really seeing it. They have:

- 3 stun breaks

- Have high on-demand protection with Spectral Armor

- Have excellent condi cleanse across multiple skills

- Have good mobility with teleports, swiftness, and dash. Relative mobility is excellent due to Chill uptime

- Can instantly dodge bursts with Spectral Walk return, Wurm

 

I wouldn't call that "extremely vulnerable" at all. It actually seems like a well-rounded package to me, at least on Engineer. Can you elaborate?

Edited by bethekey.8314
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32 minutes ago, bethekey.8314 said:

I don't have a particularly strong opinion on this, one way or another.

 

But I see a lot of comments that dismiss OP's points with:

- Reaper gets tossed around (apparently more than other classes?) @Shao.7236@Shrapnel.7249

- X is stronger @Aodlop.1907@razaelll.8324

- Learn to counter it @Spellhunter.9675@Halikus.1406

 

- PvP improves when people learn how to play. Don't just say learn. If you took the time to respond, teach.

Why should I?

 

I bother teaching ppl that ask for help, not ppl that come to the forums to scream for nerfs because they never had the intention of learning to begin with.

When they want to learn they ask here or in the class forums:

 

"How do I counter X?"

 

And not:

 

"Why does X can do this and Y can not?"

"Why hasn't anet nerfed Z yet?".

 

This community is more prone to complaining than to learning, so no I'm not going to help someone who can't even ask for help themselves.

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58 minutes ago, bethekey.8314 said:

I don't have a particularly strong opinion on this, one way or another.

 

But I see a lot of comments that dismiss OP's points with:

- Reaper gets tossed around (apparently more than other classes?) @Shao.7236@Shrapnel.7249

- X is stronger @Aodlop.1907@razaelll.8324

- Learn to counter it @Spellhunter.9675@Halikus.1406

 

Can you all go into detail about these?

- From what I've seen, Reaper has decent access to stability when it needs it (i.e. in melee). It dashes in, projectile blocking anything, AoE stuns, and does such high damage the enemy's main concern is to get away. Holo has a slightly similar style (darting between range and melee), but had its stability removed.

- Saying X is still stronger is a terrible argument. Things can be overpowered at the same time and they don't necessarily need to be fixed in a particular order.

- PvP improves when people learn how to play. Don't just say learn. If you took the time to respond, teach.

Thanks for your question mate. 

 

Projectile blocking comes from poison cloud. Only that ability can block projectiles and its on fairly long cd also since its utility it cannot be used in shroud. 

 

Stability reaper does not have much stability uptime but a good amount of stunbreaks . Worm is a very good "o kitten button". Spectral walk is double stun break and port and pulsing condi cleanse. This 2 abilities gives a reaper very good possibility for kiting when focused. Another stunbreak and dmg reduction is spectral armor it also helps with the shroud management if you damage him during spectral armor uptime. Shroud 5 which has fairly long cast time and can be interupted or dodged. 

 

The healing abilities of reaper are on fairly long cd and have clear animations and can be interrupter, if you manage to interupt reapers healing he is pretty much death. The damage on reaper autoatack maybe need just a little bit tuning down since it can hit pretty hard but outside of that and maybe lich autoattack i believe reaper is in very good spot(strong but not OP)

 

With a sic em soul beast you can pretty much kill a reaper from range before he even have the possibility to get close to you. Roots also are hard to deal with as reaper.

 

Reaper dont have access to any kind of block or invunurability so basically classes with a lot of burst damage and mobility (to avoid reapers burst) are very effective against reaper.

 

 

Edit: excuse me but i cannot go in more depth at the moment because i am traveling and writing from phone.

Edited by razaelll.8324
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31 minutes ago, razaelll.8324 said:

Thanks for your question mate. 

 

Projectile blocking comes from poison cloud. Only that ability can block projectiles and its on fairly long cd also since its utility it cannot be used in shroud. 

 

Stability reaper does not have much stability uptime but a good amount of stunbreaks . Worm is a very good "o kitten button". Spectral walk is double stun break and port and pulsing condi cleanse. This 2 abilities gives a reaper very good possibility for kiting when focused. Another stunbreak and dmg reduction is spectral armor it also helps with the shroud management if you damage him during spectral armor uptime. Shroud 5 which has fairly long cast time and can be interupted or dodged. 

 

The healing abilities of reaper are on fairly long cd and have clear animations and can be interrupter, if you manage to interupt reapers healing he is pretty much death. The damage on reaper autoatack maybe need just a little bit tuning down since it can hit pretty hard but outside of that and maybe lich autoattack i believe reaper is in very good spot(strong but not OP)

 

With a sic em soul beast you can pretty much kill a reaper from range before he even have the possibility to get close to you. Roots also are hard to deal with as reaper.

 

Reaper dont have access to any kind of block or invunurability so basically classes with a lot of burst damage and mobility (to avoid reapers burst) are very effective against reaper.

 

Thanks for taking the time to respond.

 

For projectile blocking, I was referring to Death's Charge. I'm surprised a Reaper player doesn't know this.

 

6 seconds of stability (3 stacks, even) every 25 seconds is over 20% uptime. The stability is on demand too, not some proc, so it can be used at the right times. It also reduces all damage, and can be used for a fear. This seems like an amazing skill to me.

 

Regarding Shroud 5, the typical shroud combo seems to be: Dash In, Quickness+Stability, Whirl for huge damage/get a dodge, AoE Stun + Chill, Autos. I'm fairly convinced nothing consistently beats this combo in melee range. If someone can't run away, they either:

- Eat the Whirl and die

- Are forced to dodge, still get hit by Shroud 5 because its range is bugged (I believe) or dodge again and have nothing left

 

I agree, Consume Conditions (are others used?) is very interruptible. It's also extremely powerful and deserving of this.

 

Not every class has the ranged burst Sic 'Em Soulbeast has. I posted that longbow range is broken right now, hitting well beyond its listed range, if you're interested.

 

Roots are hard for every class to deal with, not a Reaper specific weakness.

 

I agree, bursty and mobile classes can somewhat counter Reaper. I am still not seeing how it counters Reaper more than other classes.

 

 

Edited by bethekey.8314
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Necro isnt as good as u think. Scg is good, but only 1. I can make u better questions, why play reaper when u can play holo? (Pre patch) why play nec when u can play crev? (One more patch ago) why play anything else than renegade? Necro is weakest class for heavy cc builds like holo and rene are.

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6 minutes ago, bethekey.8314 said:

 

Thanks for taking the time to respond.

 

For projectile blocking, I was referring to Death's Charge. I'm surprised a Reaper player doesn't know this.

 

6 seconds of stability (3 stacks, even) every 25 seconds is over 20% uptime. The stability is on demand too, not some proc, so it can be used at the right times. It also reduces all damage, and can be used for a fear. This seems like an amazing skill to me.

 

Regarding Shroud 5, the typical shroud combo seems to be: Dash In, Quickness+Stability, Whirl for huge damage/get a dodge, AoE Stun + Chill, Autos. I'm fairly convinced nothing consistently beats this combo in melee range. If someone can't run away, they either:

- Eat the Whirl and die

- Are forced to dodge, still get hit by Shroud 5 because its range is bugged (I believe) or dodge again and have nothing left

 

I agree, Consume Conditions (are others used?) is very interruptible. It's also extremely powerful and deserving of this.

 

Not every class has the ranged burst Sic 'Em Soulbeast has. I posted that longbow range is broken right now, hitting well beyond its listed range, if you're interested.

 

Roots are hard for every class to deal with, not a Reaper specific weakness.

 

I agree, bursty and mobile classes can somewhat counter Reaper. I am still not seeing how it counters Reaper more than other classes.

 

 

You will find close to impossible trying to talk common sense when there is bias...

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5 minutes ago, Filip.7463 said:

Necro isnt as good as u think. Scg is good, but only 1. I can make u better questions, why play reaper when u can play holo? (Pre patch) why play nec when u can play crev? (One more patch ago) why play anything else than renegade? Necro is weakest class for heavy cc builds like holo and rene are.

 

I can't take your opinion seriously after this.

 

 

You either didn't even bother watching the short video before telling me to "go pve, necro has the worst mobility in the game" like an kitten, or can't even recognize teleport hacking.

 

Like someone already said in that thread, Necro can have great mobility between Walk, Wurm, Runes, Chill, and Shroud 2.

 

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14 hours ago, bethekey.8314 said:

 

Thanks for taking the time to respond.

 

For projectile blocking, I was referring to Death's Charge. I'm surprised a Reaper player doesn't know this.

 

6 seconds of stability (3 stacks, even) every 25 seconds is over 20% uptime. The stability is on demand too, not some proc, so it can be used at the right times. It also reduces all damage, and can be used for a fear. This seems like an amazing skill to me.

 

Regarding Shroud 5, the typical shroud combo seems to be: Dash In, Quickness+Stability, Whirl for huge damage/get a dodge, AoE Stun + Chill, Autos. I'm fairly convinced nothing consistently beats this combo in melee range. If someone can't run away, they either:

- Eat the Whirl and die

- Are forced to dodge, still get hit by Shroud 5 because its range is bugged (I believe) or dodge again and have nothing left

 

I agree, Consume Conditions (are others used?) is very interruptible. It's also extremely powerful and deserving of this.

 

Not every class has the ranged burst Sic 'Em Soulbeast has. I posted that longbow range is broken right now, hitting well beyond its listed range, if you're interested.

 

Roots are hard for every class to deal with, not a Reaper specific weakness.

 

I agree, bursty and mobile classes can somewhat counter Reaper. I am still not seeing how it counters Reaper more than other classes.

 

 

It is a pleasure to have a nice discussion with a nice person. Thank you for your time too!

 

"For projectile blocking, I was referring to Death's Charge. I'm surprised a Reaper player doesn't know this." - i am sorry but i dont play reaper that much, as necro i play mostly core condi necro and i didn't know about the death's charge blocking projectiles , thank you for that i am happy to learn new stuff.

"6 seconds of stability (3 stacks, even) every 25 seconds is over 20% uptime. The stability is on demand too, not some proc, so it can be used at the right times. It also reduces all damage, and can be used for a fear. This seems like an amazing skill to me." - as far as i know its 3 sec stability
 

"Regarding Shroud 5, the typical shroud combo seems to be: Dash In, Quickness+Stability, Whirl for huge damage/get a dodge, AoE Stun + Chill, Autos. I'm fairly convinced nothing consistently beats this combo in melee range. If someone can't run away, they either:

- Eat the Whirl and die

- Are forced to dodge, still get hit by Shroud 5 because its range is bugged (I believe) or dodge again and have nothing left"

This really depends on what you are against. For example a good guardian can use his blocks to avoid the shroud 5 after dodging the shroud 4, warrior can use his CC defensively or full counter if the warrior is spelbreaker and use his greatsword to kite the reaper, ranger can use roots to dont let the reaper come close or if its a power soulbeast he can use his mobility to avoid reaper and so on. My point is that this is very situational and it really depends on what you are against but most of the classes has a way to avoid reapers dmg (this here in my opinion comes down to personal skill). Thats why reaper is decent but not great in 1v1 and shines more in group fights and when he has a support to help him with his sustain.

 

"I agree, Consume Conditions (are others used?) is very interruptible. It's also extremely powerful and deserving of this." - true

"Not every class has the ranged burst Sic 'Em Soulbeast has. I posted that longbow range is broken right now, hitting well beyond its listed range, if you're interested." - mesmers is another example deadeye too.

"I agree, bursty and mobile classes can somewhat counter Reaper. I am still not seeing how it counters Reaper more than other classes." - since reaper has no blocks , invulnerabilities , immunities reaper does not have that much options for avoiding damage, no evade frames. Shroud drops relatively fast for reaper even when you dont damage it and reaper is most vulnerable right after leaving shroud because of the reason pointed above it can be bursted down quickly since its also cloth armor user.

Important things when playing against reapers is to avoid trading damage , because thats how necro siphon life and also gain lifeforse from curtain abilities , kite /block/ivun/avoid  reaper during shroud and burst them down just after they leave shroud and the classes which are best in that in my opinion are thiefs , mesmers and rangers.

elementalist is countered by reaper because of the chill application which is the strongest counter to elementalist's playstyle in my opinion also maybe warrior is also countered by reaper because of the many stunbreaks.

Guardian and revenant i think are a bit more situational, depending on builds and the current situation and so on

 

Edited by razaelll.8324
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3 hours ago, bethekey.8314 said:

I don't have a particularly strong opinion on this, one way or another.

 

But I see a lot of comments that dismiss OP's points with:

- Reaper gets tossed around (apparently more than other classes?) @Shao.7236@Shrapnel.7249

- X is stronger @Aodlop.1907@razaelll.8324

- Learn to counter it @Spellhunter.9675@Halikus.1406

 

Can you all go into detail about these?

- From what I've seen, Reaper has decent access to stability when it needs it (i.e. in melee). It dashes in, projectile blocking anything, AoE stuns, and does such high damage the enemy's main concern is to get away. Holo has a slightly similar style (darting between range and melee), but had its stability removed.

- Saying X is still stronger is a terrible argument. Things can be overpowered at the same time and they don't necessarily need to be fixed in a particular order.

- PvP improves when people learn how to play. Don't just say learn. If you took the time to respond, teach.

Reaper gets tossed more than other classes, because they don't have access to stealth or/and invuln. They can have access to whooping max 3 stability sources at any given time, but they're quite short and once they're out, Reaper is pretty much sitting duck waiting to get clapped by hammerwarriorboi or some other CC lover. In case of chargecopter, that skill is buggy and often you'll charge in place doing this funny animation, also if enemy have "unblockable" on projectiles, the skill doesn't destroy said projectiles and you still can get cced by them. Chilled to the Bone is "strong" if it hits enemy, this skill have actually clear animation and even among other kittenfest on screen you're capable of seeing it rather easily, one problem with this skill I may see is capability of "faking it", like you use it and stow your weapon and this way you bait enemy dodges, since animation will not stop in the slightest.
Don't expect them to write how to counter it, when they're probably running some cheese that is autowin against them in the first place lul.

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Playing Reaper in silver is basically free wins. Especially if you run spite. The people there just can't deal with the amount of damage you can push out. 

 

It's not uncommon for me to down someone, they rally off my teamate, down them again, they get rezed by the support, and then I down them again just by spamming auto attacks in shroud. 

 

When you reach a point where people actually learn how to kite out your shroud and abuse you when it inevitably drops... thats when you start to struggle. 

 

This is all anecdotal of course. 

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as someone who loves when reaper is viable there are some issues.
1 lich form is stupid as kitten and should be changed.
2 focus 5 needs proper animation.
Reaper has huge dps but thats fine, we need damage to kill those kittening bunkers, so a reaper is a amazing for the health of the game. Few tips gainst reaper.
1 Reaper 2 ( dash )  blocks projectiles, since reaper is melee you can hit them from range, stow -> dodge their dash then mow them down again, works well when you can teleport away/dash away, as after reaper 2, the only mobility they can get is outside of shroud, leaving them kittened.
2 CC reaper when he is in shroud, they CANT remove stuns without leaving the shroud, this is a huge weakness off a reaper that people NEED to exploit, I see people throw 2-3 stuns into a reaper and they just remove it.... keep them for when they shroud.
OBV dont use it when they have stab.
3 Always keep in mind their lich, if its not on CD you need to be ready for it, or you risk dying in 1,5s from full.
Good necro can spectral walk/worm port onto people as they finish lich, so be weary of that too.

When you fight reaper you usually want to
1 Avoid spinal shivers + fidget spinner attack
2 apply as much ranged damage as you can
3 when they get into melee, avoid their CC and dash ( it blinds )
4 CC lock them when stab runs out to force them out of shroud.
5 DPS them down, depending on a class, keep 1 easy to land CC for their healing skill, it takes long to cast.

If you have extended survival tools on a class, its usually very good to use it the moment they get stab and wait it out, for example warrior will shield block, ranger with gs4, holo can stealth-> dodge and wait it out.
After it runs out you gain huge advantage over reaper.

Edited by Leonidrex.5649
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10 hours ago, Leonidrex.5649 said:

as someone who loves when reaper is viable there are some issues.
1 lich form is stupid as kitten and should be changed.
2 focus 5 needs proper animation.
Reaper has huge dps but thats fine, we need damage to kill those kittening bunkers, so a reaper is a amazing for the health of the game. Few tips gainst reaper.
1 Reaper 2 ( dash )  blocks projectiles, since reaper is melee you can hit them from range, stow -> dodge their dash then mow them down again, works well when you can teleport away/dash away, as after reaper 2, the only mobility they can get is outside of shroud, leaving them kittened.
2 CC reaper when he is in shroud, they CANT remove stuns without leaving the shroud, this is a huge weakness off a reaper that people NEED to exploit, I see people throw 2-3 stuns into a reaper and they just remove it.... keep them for when they shroud.
OBV dont use it when they have stab.
3 Always keep in mind their lich, if its not on CD you need to be ready for it, or you risk dying in 1,5s from full.
Good necro can spectral walk/worm port onto people as they finish lich, so be weary of that too.

When you fight reaper you usually want to
1 Avoid spinal shivers + fidget spinner attack
2 apply as much ranged damage as you can
3 when they get into melee, avoid their CC and dash ( it blinds )
4 CC lock them when stab runs out to force them out of shroud.
5 DPS them down, depending on a class, keep 1 easy to land CC for their healing skill, it takes long to cast.

If you have extended survival tools on a class, its usually very good to use it the moment they get stab and wait it out, for example warrior will shield block, ranger with gs4, holo can stealth-> dodge and wait it out.
After it runs out you gain huge advantage over reaper.

 

Ok....as every thread about necro, this one gone as well so I'll just answer this one: 

 

1)Below average necros will just press F1 and chase you around till shroud runs off..

 

2)The actual type of necros the OP talking about will abuse this https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Reaper's_Onslaught , enter shroud and exit, quickness still up at 0% boon duration...there goes the dodging , I see people in tournaments  dieing to quickness burst...so

 

3)They have  unblockable marks and at least 3 sources of fear ,   https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Spectral_Ring , they apply chill...and marks have basically same animation, I mean I could be here and explain all possible strategies a necor player can use now but..that hardly matter at this point, I would expect same answer


https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Unblockable   and  https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Quickness   and   https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Chilled 

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Everybody a prince of PvP on the forum but in game they all die faster than the time it took to write their wall of text on the forum....even better you see these actual princes and princesses of PvP go splat easily to the same things they claimed to be easy and a L2P on the forum...haha

Edited by Arheundel.6451
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4 minutes ago, Arheundel.6451 said:

 

Ok....as every thread about necro, this one gone as well so I'll just answer this one: 

 

1)Below average necros will just press F1 and chase you around till shroud runs off..

 

2)The actual type of necros the OP talking about will abuse this https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Reaper's_Onslaught , enter shroud and exit, quickness still up at 0% boon duration...there goes the dodging , I see people in tournaments  dieing to quickness burst...so

 

3)They have  unblockable marks and at least 3 sources of fear ,   https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Spectral_Ring , they apply chill...and marks have basically same animation, I mean I could be here and explain all possible strategies a necor player can use now but..that hardly matter at this point, I would expect same answer


https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Unblockable   and  https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Quickness   and   https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Chilled 

It might sound crazy to you, but in tournaments people make mistakes too!
Wild idea, I know.
All those CC have cast times on a class with 2 dodges, as much as they can pressure you, you can pressure them back and more.
You can interrupt them, CC them, blind them they cant dodge kitten with their 2 dodges, while all other classes have WAY more.
And if reaper wants to put their shroud on 10s cd, to gain quickness then thats a trade-off, he gives up his survivability for 10s sec to gain kitten quickness, very easy to kill him back.

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19 minutes ago, Leonidrex.5649 said:

It might sound crazy to you, but in tournaments people make mistakes too!
Wild idea, I know.
All those CC have cast times on a class with 2 dodges, as much as they can pressure you, you can pressure them back and more.
You can interrupt them, CC them, blind them they cant dodge kitten with their 2 dodges, while all other classes have WAY more.
And if reaper wants to put their shroud on 10s cd, to gain quickness then thats a trade-off, he gives up his survivability for 10s sec to gain kitten quickness, very easy to kill him back.

Always the condescending attitude and that's why people get the answers they get...

 

 I have a kitten necro and played it for 200 hrs enough to learn animations and CD and played also against players who are not like bots in your description, do you know what quickness and unblockable fear chain? I think you played against bots going in a straight line pressing F1 and chasing you around..you turn and pewpewpew them..so you think every necro player out there is a complete moron.

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49 minutes ago, Arheundel.6451 said:

Always the condescending attitude and that's why people get the answers they get...

 

 I have a kitten necro and played it for 200 hrs enough to learn animations and CD and played also against players who are not like bots in your description, do you know what quickness and unblockable fear chain? I think you played against bots going in a straight line pressing F1 and chasing you around..you turn and pewpewpew them..so you think every necro player out there is a complete moron.

you get what you deserve my man, you are the one calling people bots, not me.
If you get fear chained by reaper then I really dont know what to tell you my man. Other then maybe staff 5, all the CC. ALL THE CC EVERY SINGLE ONE is very avoidable. and even staff 5 can be somewhat neutered by applying proper pressure.

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12 minutes ago, Leonidrex.5649 said:

you get what you deserve my man, you are the one calling people bots, not me.
If you get fear chained by reaper then I really dont know what to tell you my man. Other then maybe staff 5, all the CC. ALL THE CC EVERY SINGLE ONE is very avoidable. and even staff 5 can be somewhat neutered by applying proper pressure.

As I have said on the forum everybody is a PRO ESL player...in game is completely different story, "I dodge this and I CC that"..you see them in game and they go splay in 5s...what a circus

Edited by Arheundel.6451
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22 minutes ago, Arheundel.6451 said:

As I have said on the forum everybody is a PRO ESL player...in game is completely different story, "I dodge this and I CC that"..you see them in game and they go splay in 5s...what a circus

exactly, you just described L2P issue. Thank you very much. Now put the theory into practice and.... practice!
yay

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9 hours ago, Arheundel.6451 said:

So from chrono bunker you jumped on ranger..that's where your "expertise" comes from...sad

Imagine attacking someone instead off their argument, sad.
Btw, I dont think I have played more then 5 games with chrono-bunker, and when I did play it, nobody else did as it was already over-nerfed to kitten ( it was when immortal decap scrapper was a thing and there was like 3 of them in each team )

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