Why nerf a spec that does not exist in PVE?

[apharma.3741]

21 minutes ago, Zhaid Zhem.6508 said:

I dunno, may be this is because we enjoy weaver/elementalist we are in the misunderstanding about the random free nerfs between each updates.

 

Honestly I don't care about signet of fire. As you say the skill is pretty the same, it doesn't change gameplay. But seriously ... does elem really deserve nerfs in all modes because of some complaints a year ago about fireweaver ?

That’s because you need to look at it in the context of a correction to a skill that should have been changed a long time ago. I know they didn’t double the duration but I can understand that at 12s it was going to last a very long time, 24s at 100% burn duration which isn’t hard to get, so no doubt they tried to lower this without nerfing it too much.
 

I wouldn’t be surprised if we saw the duration of burn split between PvE and PvP/WvW but honestly I think it’s probably better they revisit the skill in general as it’s a boring and dull signet active. 

[Todd.6573]

It's actually starting to get absurd. There is no correlation between impact and DPS anymore. Usually the aim for a glass cannon class/build/character is to deal massive damage at the cost of survivability, but now it's much more logical (for some absurd reason) to have classes that literally CAN NOT DIE in PvE deal the same amount of damage on top of massive support abilities as a class with an insane rotation, zero survivability and zero support when built to DPS.

 

Maybe some communication* from the devs about what the plan is?

Because it seems like the plan is bringing a shotgun to a board of skills and just nerfing whatever gets hit.

 

Because unless they are deleting Elementalist or just adding metric tons of support capabilities to base ele and weaver there is zero logic behind anything that's been done lately. Absolutely insane.

 

For your convenience:

*Communication: A process by which information is exchanged between individuals through a common system of symbols, signs, or behavior

Edited June 9, 2021 by Todd.6573

[Puck.3697]

5 minutes ago, Todd.6573 said:

It's actually starting to get absurd. There is no correlation between impact and DPS anymore. Usually the aim for a glass cannon class/build/character is to deal massive damage at the cost of survivability, but now it's much more logical (for some absurd reason) to have classes that literally CAN NOT DIE in PvE deal the same amount of damage on top of massive support abilities as a class with an insane rotation, zero survivability and zero support when built to DPS.

 

Maybe some communication* from the devs about what the plan is?

Because it seems like the plan is bringing a shotgun to a board of skills and just nerfing whatever gets hit.

 

Because unless they are deleting Elementalist or just adding metric tons of support capabilities to base ele and weaver there is zero logic behind anything that's been done lately. Absolutely insane.

 

For your convenience:

*Communication: A process by which information is exchanged between individuals through a common system of symbols, signs, or behavior

 

Tbh weaver still is above support build DPS so I doubt it's that. But yes communication would likely soothe the fires abit. 

 

I guess they count the "we will be balancing for EoD leading up to the expansion launch" is the communication they expect us to follow. But you think they'd wait til after July so we see the new elites for context to why some things may get nerfed. 

 

Atleast if we had a idea of what exactly warranted the nerf 

 

That or its on them trying to reduce conditional burst.. as they have been trying to do patch to patch currently. 

 

But we got no buff to sustained damage to make up for the loss in DPS...

 

 

[Todd.6573]

20 minutes ago, Daddy.8125 said:

 

Tbh weaver still is above support build DPS so I doubt it's that. But yes communication would likely soothe the fires abit. 

 

I guess they count the "we will be balancing for EoD leading up to the expansion launch" is the communication they expect us to follow. But you think they'd wait til after July so we see the new elites for context to why some things may get nerfed. 

 

Atleast if we had a idea of what exactly warranted the nerf 

 

That or its on them trying to reduce conditional burst.. as they have been trying to do patch to patch currently. 

 

But we got no buff to sustained damage to make up for the loss in DPS...

 

 

Yes, of course its higher than dedicated Support specs. However, if you look at, say, a DPS firebrand. A dedicated, 100% DPS focused firebrand. He still has easy, non disruptive access to: Tons of Aegis, Stab, Regen, Swiftness, Reflect, Might, Quickness, Resistance, Healing in general, Increased healing, CC on demand, Evade, Condi Cleanse and i can keep going. Using any or multiple of these will not significantly impact the DPS of that guardian.

Now, lets go back to the Weaver - You have easy access to: Damage. Like, thats it. You can swap into water for an evade and after a second swap (so several seconds in) you get some condi cleanse. Want some CC? Sure, go into air, then earth, then whatever and use your 3 accessible skills. Its asinine to say Weavers or Eles in general should be the same DPS as that Guard. They dont have to buff Weavers or Eles, but they definitely should nerf Firebrand and Scourge that have extreme value in a team comp.

Edited June 9, 2021 by Todd.6573
Misspelling

[Puck.3697]

23 minutes ago, Todd.6573 said:

Yes, of course its higher than dedicated Support specs. However, if you look at, say, a DPS firebrand. A dedicated, 100% DPS focused firebrand. He still has easy, non disruptive access to: Tons of Aegis, Stab, Regen, Swiftness, Reflect, Might, Quickness, Resistance, Healing in general, Increased healing, CC on demand, Evade, Condi Cleanse and i can keep going. Using any or multiple of these will not significantly impact the DPS of that guardian.

Now, lets go back to the Weaver - You have easy access to: Damage. Like, thats it. You can swap into water for an evade and after a second swap (so several seconds in) you get some condi cleanse. Want some CC? Sure, go into air, then earth, then whatever and use your 3 accessible skills. Its asinine to say Weavers or Eles in general should be the same DPS as that Guard. They dont have to buff Weavers or Eles, but they definitely should nerf Firebrand and Scourge that have extreme value in a team comp.

 

I do agree there firebrand is bad design with how much is built into it. And either they need to bulk tempest up ALOT in what it provides. 

 

We need a elite specc which is more competitive with it. But I'd say that's prolly say tempest is the best option to build on that. While Weavers a dedicated DPS. 

 

But by the time they finish nerfing it... It'll be questionable if it can do the role anymore. 

 

This expansion turned the bloat up massively it seems. Im unsure why they'd make such a move. Firebrand prolly needs to lose half its tools... 

[Zhaid Zhem.6508]

Weaver's Benchmark* is above all DPS.

But no, you can easily be better than weaver in most of situations.

 

Rotation is too long, you need muscular reflex, timing, good memory and habits of all CD to not waste time and attunement swap.

It relies too on good accurracy, positionning, to chain skills like burning speed, earthen rush, flamewall,  etc and so on immobiles bosses too.

Or you can go sword, benchmark is already lower but in practice you'll be more effective.

You don't need to apply the full rotation skill per skill; it's okai if you don't go to water  the righ moment Twin strike goes off CD, or if you don't go to water at all; you can just run between fire>air>earth and smah buttons; but obviously you'll do less DPS.

 

 

Then,

Weaver's DPS is flat ;  you can't expect mechanic abuse to deeply increase DPS, nowhere.

While condition mirages, condition deadeyes, they can double the numbers because of confusion on (many) bosses and/or because of projectiles combos.

Same with scourge/reaper if there are trashmobs because of LF generation, epidemic (despite nerf), scourges stacking for more LF generation (the bone minions) more epidemic.

Same FB who's DPS can exponentially explose with a lot of enemiess, because of Radiance, because of Pemeating Wrath.

 

So even if you have the best block of supports classes with all offensives buffs, 100% scholar uptime, 50% barriers, etc, and all you need is pur DPS bots ... most of the time you won't chose weaver, because it's not optimal.

And if you want humans, casuals gamers, or players with tiredness at the end of the day, weaver is too complicated, not safe.

[Jski.6180]

It was a bad and pointless nerf for condis something that last patch was trying to buff due to torment getting a massive buff in pve. Just anet throwing things at the wall seeing if any thing sticks or will case a back lash. At best it just shows us on these forms who can stomach any thing happening to the game good or bad.

[Puck.3697]

6 hours ago, Zhaid Zhem.6508 said:

Weaver's Benchmark* is above all DPS.

But no, you can easily be better than weaver in most of situations.

 

Rotation is too long, you need muscular reflex, timing, good memory and habits of all CD to not waste time and attunement swap.

It relies too on good accurracy, positionning, to chain skills like burning speed, earthen rush, flamewall,  etc and so on immobiles bosses too.

Or you can go sword, benchmark is already lower but in practice you'll be more effective.

You don't need to apply the full rotation skill per skill; it's okai if you don't go to water  the righ moment Twin strike goes off CD, or if you don't go to water at all; you can just run between fire>air>earth and smah buttons; but obviously you'll do less DPS.

 

 

Then,

Weaver's DPS is flat ;  you can't expect mechanic abuse to deeply increase DPS, nowhere.

While condition mirages, condition deadeyes, they can double the numbers because of confusion on (many) bosses and/or because of projectiles combos.

Same with scourge/reaper if there are trashmobs because of LF generation, epidemic (despite nerf), scourges stacking for more LF generation (the bone minions) more epidemic.

Same FB who's DPS can exponentially explose with a lot of enemiess, because of Radiance, because of Pemeating Wrath.

 

So even if you have the best block of supports classes with all offensives buffs, 100% scholar uptime, 50% barriers, etc, and all you need is pur DPS bots ... most of the time you won't chose weaver, because it's not optimal.

And if you want humans, casuals gamers, or players with tiredness at the end of the day, weaver is too complicated, not safe.

 

I wouldn't say it's tiredness or anything. The problem is 

 

GW2 is super alt friendly. And isn't built with the concept of only playing one char as a main. Most have lots of Alts. 

 

The continuous swapping of classes and doing different things will stop muscle memory building to a high degree. 

 

Elementalist is too complicated for the playerbase the game targets because of this. You can't just pick condi weaver up every now and then for fun. Because you need quite a degree of muscle memory to perform comfortably.

 

Something that swapping chars will continuously jolt. 

 

So classes can't really demand a large amount muscle memory without these problems become a thing. 

 

Weavers decent. At the end of the day I've seen the average raiders.. and no ones reaching any DPS limits. People do like 15-20k DPS in average pugs. .

 

But ofcourse this argument is flawed because it's people's opinions which get you into groups, not facts or personal skill. 

 

Most games suffer this. Ur class can't just be average because people don't care unless your one of the top performers. 

 

And dumb nerfs like this one doesn't help that situation at all, they are trying to reduce the burst output of condi damage. But it shouldn't of been a nerf. More compensation was needed. 

Edited June 9, 2021 by Daddy.8125

[Sugar Min.5834]

This is why never share effective builds you discovered on the forum. Any forum. If that build is finally one that you enjoyed and actually having fun with it, and everyone starts using it, ANet will nerf it. You cannot have fun in this game but only frustrations and disappointments.

[Euclid.2517]

Check the post from Roul [SC] himself too. He is super pro in guard as well, and balance team should at least read this.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/nvs3qr/i_feel_the_need_to_talk_about_the_most_recent_ele/

 

[Jski.6180]

4 hours ago, Mil.3562 said:

This is why never share effective builds you discovered on the forum. Any forum. If that build is finally one that you enjoyed and actually having fun with it, and everyone starts using it, ANet will nerf it. You cannot have fun in this game but only frustrations and disappointments.

I am just lost why they would go after weaver though going after core ele effects. That alone is confusing for me and should be a real problem that the ele community needs to point out.

[Infusion.7149]

1 hour ago, Euclid.2517 said:

Check the post from Roul [SC] himself too. He is super pro in guard as well, and balance team should at least read this.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/nvs3qr/i_feel_the_need_to_talk_about_the_most_recent_ele/

 

If what you say is right and they balance off SC benchmarks then he only has himself to blame. Why not include a small hitbox benchmark and omit the large hitbox and use medium?

[CrypticInsanity.6317]

Bummer.

I'd stopped playing Guild Wars about a year ago after having sunk a couple thousand hours into the game. I quit mainly due to how disappointed I became with a class that is relatively difficult to master yet lost all real reward for sticking it out and learning. I used to love the satisfaction I would get from succeeding at complicated combat lines to great effect. Now, ele players need to string together obscene lines just to be half as effective as other classes.

I occasionally circle back to see if things have changed but it's disappointing to see that they're just getting worse. This will be my first post in years but unfortunately my last too I suspect.

All the best to persevering ele players and fingers crossed the class becomes satisfying again some day.

[Puck.3697]

3 hours ago, Jski.6180 said:

I am just lost why they would go after weaver though going after core ele effects. That alone is confusing for me and should be a real problem that the ele community needs to point out.

 

we know why.

 

Because Arenanet want to nerf Condition damage Bursting ability. what they're trying to do is give Condi Based builds good Sustained DPS and Power based builds good burst Damage. they've nerfed several condi classes in their burst ability, the problem is those classes were very much above Weavers DPS when they initated those nerfs so the community saw it as Fair.

 

The goal here is fine, the issue is the Compensation wasnt enough and unlike other classes isnt in a position where it can just swallow nerfs and be fine.

 

as far as i've been told this is a ability that they were susposed to nerf a very long time ago, it just happened to be done now.. bujt they already nerfed weaver several times previously before this one so now is a problem..

 

basically, we took a Punch. because they dont like a Damage type they created, which is Burst condi damage.

[soulknight.9620]

ArenaNet designed burn to be a bursty condi in the first place. There are a lot of different condies that take time to stack up (for example bleed). 

 

The main problem i see with eles in general, you cant actually build a full power/full condi build because there are always condies attached to your most damaging skills (just look at dagger, sword, scepter skills). So if they make those condies strong then condi builds would go nuts on dps. Even if you try to make a full power build, a good portion of your damage comes from those condies. So ele is like tied to more of a hybrid type of profession (unlike other classes, that can fully spec into a single damage type). But all hybrid stat combos are lackluster comparet to pure DPS ones (zerk/viper).

 

Another one is that ele requires a lot of stat investment into every aspect of its character (if you want good damage you NEED to go for berserkers or vipers, if you want to have sustain you need to invest into healing power, etc). And eles just dont have enough stats to spare and no base stats to compensate (im looking at you necros/revs/guards). When we look at other classes, they can get away with having traits/utility that provides sustain/support with almost no cost to DPS/sustain/support (except utility skill slot). You cant do decent dps as ele if not fully traited for damage and havent got every utility slot slotted for DPS. Every utility slot you want to change to sustain will hurt your dps drasticaly (same goes for traits).

 

There was a good combo when weaver was introduced in gw2 - sword water2 into earth 2 which gave a good boost to self heal and sustain that was usable without investing in healing power, but since then it has been overnerfed into oblivion. If i fight mobs in open world with dps stats i get hit for 3-6k depending on mob type. And you wanna know how much i heal with abovementioned combo? 3k! while im doing this combo i may get hit 1-2 times and thats a negative heal for you. Besides that locks you out of DPS/Survivability skills for 3.5 secs. which guess again is another 1-2 hit if you do not time you dodges right. 

 

Eles desperatly need of NON-scaling sustain mechanics IN their DPS traits or DPS weapons or give eles back riptide the way it was pre nerf (for pve atleast). Then and only then we can justify nerfs to eles DPS.

 

ELES... HAVE... NOTHING... BESIDES... AVERAGE... DPS. And im not taking into account golem benchmarks as it is not representative for actuall bossfights even in low tier fractals (you have to move, do mechanics, dodge shots, etc). Even if you go full heal tempest, you can only heal, no utility, no unique usefull buffs. Everything heal tempest can do - HFB/Druid can do better with more utility, support, damage (even damage, yes). 

 

Atm state of ele is as follows:

I played ele for 6 years in a row, i played every single spec, every single build, know every skill, played every game mode to a certain decree (platinum SPVP rank when i played SPVP). I know my rotations, can get 85-90% of snowcrows dps on a golem (due to ping, cant get it higher).

AND when i pick a class that i never played or played like 10 hours total (for example rev, necro, FB), that i know nothing about, nor their combos and skills, i manage to OUTDPS my ele by using 2-3 buttons. That is kinda demotivating. 

 

@Arenanet please atleast gives a coomentary on what do you consider a "good place" that you mentioned that eles are at atm. Please share your visions on the class, your plans, otherwise we as ele community feel like we are just being hated by dev team. 

Edited June 10, 2021 by soulknight.9620

[Arheundel.6451]

34 minutes ago, Daddy.8125 said:

 

we know why.

 

Because Arenanet want to nerf Condition damage Bursting ability. what they're trying to do is give Condi Based builds good Sustained DPS and Power based builds good burst Damage. they've nerfed several condi classes in their burst ability, the problem is those classes were very much above Weavers DPS when they initated those nerfs so the community saw it as Fair.

 

The goal here is fine, the issue is the Compensation wasnt enough and unlike other classes isnt in a position where it can just swallow nerfs and be fine.

 

as far as i've been told this is a ability that they were susposed to nerf a very long time ago, it just happened to be done now.. bujt they already nerfed weaver several times previously before this one so now is a problem..

 

basically, we took a Punch. because they dont like a Damage type they created, which is Burst condi damage.

Any experienced MMO player who played GW2 since launch while using an ele...could see the incoming nerf to signet of fire, I have always been surprised that it didn't get nerfed last year, the nerf really doesn't surprise me I am well aware of how ele sits in the grand scheme of things , there is some truth in what you say and how the EoD may look like although...I'd still keep my hopes low if I'd be you.

 

Whatever the EoD elite will be, it won't be something as spamming and efficient like firebrand and scourge, I am 200% sure about that! I am only praying it will be ranged with low/mediocre cast time...nothing rooting with 2s channel skills BS

 

Honestly I agree with Anet that condi builds should not be bursty...it's absurd, increasing the ramp up is the right call

[Puck.3697]

16 minutes ago, Arheundel.6451 said:

Any experienced MMO player who played GW2 since launch while using an ele...could see the incoming nerf to signet of fire, I have always been surprised that it didn't get nerfed last year, the nerf really doesn't surprise me I am well aware of how ele sits in the grand scheme of things , there is some truth in what you say and how the EoD may look like although...I'd still keep my hopes low if I'd be you.

 

Whatever the EoD elite will be, it won't be something as spamming and efficient like firebrand and scourge, I am 200% sure about that! I am only praying it will be ranged with low/mediocre cast time...nothing rooting with 2s channel skills BS

 

Honestly I agree with Anet that condi builds should not be bursty...it's absurd, increasing the ramp up is the right call

 

aye thats what i mean, I just dont think the compensation was realistically enough... even if they just buffed Power weaver up again or something to realistically equalise us.

[vilkanor.3072]

c'mon, Ele nerfs have been the norm since 2012, you guys should be accustomed to that by now

[Puck.3697]

2 minutes ago, vilkanor.3072 said:

c'mon, Ele nerfs have been the norm since 2012, you guys should be accustomed to that by now

 

i think most classes are... if u look at complaints.. there all surrounding the exact same classes.. this isnt a Ele only problem. its just this time it was Ele that got shafted for 0 reason.

 

 

[AliamRationem.5172]

4 hours ago, Infusion.7149 said:

If what you say is right and they balance off SC benchmarks then he only has himself to blame. Why not include a small hitbox benchmark and omit the large hitbox and use medium?

 

How is that relevant?  The problem is ANet's failure to provide this class a rewarding output while giving the same out like candy to every faceroll spec in existence!  Roul provided a little history on this and I think it's a great window into the frustration you're seeing from other ele players on this forum.

 

He's mentioned in the past how he'd like to play weaver as its his favorite class, but can't justify it when specs like cfb are so much stronger.  Better damage, better utility, easier to play, and far less reliant on support and other factors beyond the player's control.

[Zhaid Zhem.6508]

The 2 things Ele/Weaver shined into :

-Staff -  nerfed to oblivion. I haven't tried for a while but i'm pretty sure staff is  still 5k under sword, on big hitbox.

-Downstate - weaver was the best to die,  above necro, as it is its natural design to be the first to die everywhere and guess what ? Even here, they removed "lesser" lavafont.

[Arheundel.6451]

3 hours ago, soulknight.9620 said:

ArenaNet designed burn to be a bursty condi in the first place. There are a lot of different condies that take time to stack up (for example bleed). 

 

The main problem i see with eles in general, you cant actually build a full power/full condi build because there are always condies attached to your most damaging skills (just look at dagger, sword, scepter skills). So if they make those condies strong then condi builds would go nuts on dps. Even if you try to make a full power build, a good portion of your damage comes from those condies. So ele is like tied to more of a hybrid type of profession (unlike other classes, that can fully spec into a single damage type). But all hybrid stat combos are lackluster comparet to pure DPS ones (zerk/viper).

 

Another one is that ele requires a lot of stat investment into every aspect of its character (if you want good damage you NEED to go for berserkers or vipers, if you want to have sustain you need to invest into healing power, etc). And eles just dont have enough stats to spare and no base stats to compensate (im looking at you necros/revs/guards). When we look at other classes, they can get away with having traits/utility that provides sustain/support with almost no cost to DPS/sustain/support (except utility skill slot). You cant do decent dps as ele if not fully traited for damage and havent got every utility slot slotted for DPS. Every utility slot you want to change to sustain will hurt your dps drasticaly (same goes for traits).

 

There was a good combo when weaver was introduced in gw2 - sword water2 into earth 2 which gave a good boost to self heal and sustain that was usable without investing in healing power, but since then it has been overnerfed into oblivion. If i fight mobs in open world with dps stats i get hit for 3-6k depending on mob type. And you wanna know how much i heal with abovementioned combo? 3k! while im doing this combo i may get hit 1-2 times and thats a negative heal for you. Besides that locks you out of DPS/Survivability skills for 3.5 secs. which guess again is another 1-2 hit if you do not time you dodges right. 

 

Eles desperatly need of NON-scaling sustain mechanics IN their DPS traits or DPS weapons or give eles back riptide the way it was pre nerf (for pve atleast). Then and only then we can justify nerfs to eles DPS.

 

ELES... HAVE... NOTHING... BESIDES... AVERAGE... DPS. And im not taking into account golem benchmarks as it is not representative for actuall bossfights even in low tier fractals (you have to move, do mechanics, dodge shots, etc). Even if you go full heal tempest, you can only heal, no utility, no unique usefull buffs. Everything heal tempest can do - HFB/Druid can do better with more utility, support, damage (even damage, yes). 

 

Atm state of ele is as follows:

I played ele for 6 years in a row, i played every single spec, every single build, know every skill, played every game mode to a certain decree (platinum SPVP rank when i played SPVP). I know my rotations, can get 85-90% of snowcrows dps on a golem (due to ping, cant get it higher).

AND when i pick a class that i never played or played like 10 hours total (for example rev, necro, FB), that i know nothing about, nor their combos and skills, i manage to OUTDPS my ele by using 2-3 buttons. That is kinda demotivating. 

 

@Arenanet please atleast gives a coomentary on what do you consider a "good place" that you mentioned that eles are at atm. Please share your visions on the class, your plans, otherwise we as ele community feel like we are just being hated by dev team. 

What @Daddy.8125 is correct and makes sense, Anet is a profit run company, they don't balance the game so that everybody get to have fun in their own way, Anet balances the game so that as many people as possible will buy it. Ele is too complex for the average individual, who comes home late from work and maybe wants to have some fun with his friends doing a raid, organized the previous week. 

 

Now if you balance raids so that only people who could master ele can play then..your game won't survive for long, you need to balance the game for the masses...while trying to maintain that resemblance of skill to appease the elitists, who are still a necessary evil for marketing, those snobs on stream still provide free marketing and exposure for GW2 and no company says no to free advertising.

 

In the end of the day, ele is a class only those who spend thousand of hours and gold to buy the most expensive gear, will have fun with....in a niche environment, ele is a class you play only because you like it , it's not a class you play because it easy to have results with as the opposite it's true.

 

Anet doesn't want ele to sit alongside the easy and overperforming classes because it would be detrimental to those who can't play the class but still want to feel good about themselves while playing a MMO, those who can't play the class to maximum efficiency are the majority of the population...and money talk in the end.

 

People should stop expecting to have better results with ele simply because it's harder, these days no company work so that you have fun, every business is here to make money and you do that by pleasing the majority of your customer base and in 2021 your typical MMO player wants instant gratification=little effort, because now the majority of MMO players are working individuals who after 50-60 hrs weekly job haven't got the patience or time to practice or farm gold/gear to maximise results

 

People don't want to spend thousand of hours practising the same rotation over and over, they want to get in and smash faces and Anet wants to sell copies of the game if not...the devs won't eat and the company will fail.

 

I resigned myself  to this : elementalist is still a class you can win your duels with, even against good players on other professions, it's a class you can still have great fun with in WvW and a class you can still complete the living story with but.....if you want to be the top cheese like other meta specs....change class that's what I suggest people. I have given all the reasons why ele is what it is and why people should stop complaining like anything will ever change, rest is up to you guys...honestly guys all this drama is not worth anymore...maybe never was, it's much faster and convenient to change class than wasting time on the forum

[Zhaid Zhem.6508]

I don't like this argument because it doesn't answer to even half the issues.

 

Elem/weaver is not complex. Not in pve. This just false.

The full burst rotation + loop rotation + weaveself rotation + lesser elemental + precast conjured weapons +meteor shower in fractals and I forget half, are only here to compete with others benchmark.

But you don't need this. You can just run Fire /swap/ Air or earth, smash skills CD off, all the fight and easily do 90% of the "maximum" dps.  You just want to loop fresh-air bonus (for power/hybrid) the 10 stack of persisting flames and Elements of rage; that's all. It's really not hard, they even loop themself without looking at.

 

And actually, in practice, being more effective because you don't fail combo and timing.

I know classes where the timing and precise skills chains/buffs, interrupting autohit etc, are more essential if you don't want to lose half your dps. Like holo back in time with the 51-99% heat, or even reaper "the easiest class" with all the precision/ferocity bonus and cold shoulder, soul barbs. 

And there are  also way easier rotations with high DPS, don't get me wrong. But elem/weaver isn't the "hardest", far from it; you don't need it.

 

No. The reason no one play elementalist isn't the complexity. It's because it's useless.

-Benchmark isn't that high, and in practice there are a lof encounters and situations where actually everybody can do better; regardless the support/sustain.  Because of confusion, because of moving boss and melee/range, because of adds/trasmobs, reflect etc. So  if you want a pur DPS bot, you don't want elem.

But even if benchmark was higher ;

-Sustain/support is inexistant. You're too dependant to others, while you bring nothing to the table.  There are mathematically some attacks you're alone to  not survive without protection+barrier+resistance, etc.

While FB with one build can bring cc, fury, reflect, stab, resistance, water aoe, condi conversion/cleanse, toughness, aegis. And, with some tweaks in build, quickness, mights, etc. Same with DH, F3 shield is really strong for personnal but also group sustain, F2, vulnerability, perfect inscription...

While warriors bring banners, mights, fury ... SB, spirits, spotter, one wolf pack etc.

While Renegade brings with already huge DPS, alacrity, assassin's presence, lifesteal, resistance, boonstrip...

Scourge : barriers, boonstrip, condi conversion, some mights, rez machine ....

Chrono can play quickness, or quickness+alac, signet of inspiration ... you can stack chronos for danger time trait...

Even Thief at some point it can bring stealth, CC, the stolen object thing with all boons.

So you could do 65K dps against a golem with a shorter rotation; the average PUG or guild still won't looking for you, at least till they have a solid block able to support one or two DPS bots.

 

But if a weaver could bring good  and rares/uniques utilitieS (PLURAL) to all the  group without losing too much personal DPS (or getting nerfs every patchs) : quickness, stab, group buffs (like the persisting flames for example, arcane power stacks...), barriers, even Slow, vigor ... players will say you're worth the risk and your "hard rotation" won't be an issue.

 

 

 

Edit*Actual simplified rotation :

 

Fire-fire - air/fire - air/air - fire/air for Power.

Fire-fire - Earth/fire - earth/earth - fire/earth for condi.

And you smash all the skillbar like an idi*t,  even earth focus magnetic wave, updraft if you want, you don't care.

And sometimes, if you feel it, or you know skills will be on CD, you go to the third "dps" element for lava-skin, gale-strike.

 

It is long to write the full rotation with all skills, because weaver has  a lot of skills, but do you really think this is hard ? 🤔😥

 

Obviously if you want to try hard you need to know more about CD, you need to include water for twin-strike, natural frenzy, not waste weaveself seconds. You should want to try with Dagger/focus for more dps, and so know placement... But there are things you'll learn naturally with practice, not "unintuitives" things or mandatory to be a good weaver.

There are just some tips to know too, like swapping attunement while casting skills, use primordial stance with fire for burst, earth for dps, and that's all.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 10, 2021 by Zhaid Zhem.6508

[Jski.6180]

8 hours ago, Daddy.8125 said:

 

we know why.

 

Because Arenanet want to nerf Condition damage Bursting ability. what they're trying to do is give Condi Based builds good Sustained DPS and Power based builds good burst Damage. they've nerfed several condi classes in their burst ability, the problem is those classes were very much above Weavers DPS when they initated those nerfs so the community saw it as Fair.

 

The goal here is fine, the issue is the Compensation wasnt enough and unlike other classes isnt in a position where it can just swallow nerfs and be fine.

 

as far as i've been told this is a ability that they were susposed to nerf a very long time ago, it just happened to be done now.. bujt they already nerfed weaver several times previously before this one so now is a problem..

 

basically, we took a Punch. because they dont like a Damage type they created, which is Burst condi damage.

They could of went after any number of weaver skills it has soo many that apply soo many effects with out even touching tempest or core ele.

[Zeesh.7286]

On 6/9/2021 at 5:59 PM, Zhaid Zhem.6508 said:

May be the only direct buff of yesterday, is Purity of Purpose nerf.

It could change the build of scrapper or the compo arround boon corrupt X condi conversion, and give room to tempest.

 

I know for a fact that in WvW,  with the addition of stacking superspeed scrapper isn't going anywhere. In fact there is theorycrafting going on around damage scrapper builds using superspeed for a melee blob engage because flamethrower scrappers are absolutely broken in melee zerg engagements with their burst. The overall "nerf" to PoP does nothing for tempests because even then tempest cleanses aren't giving that 1 boon on cleanse every couple of seconds that PoP still gives and neither is tempest giving you stealth gyro/superspeed.