Are Primordus and Jormag truly dead?

[Lord Korag.8439]

I would like to discuss the aftermath of the Champions dragon battle. For me, some statements which seemlingly confirms the death of both Elder Dragons, could actually mean the opposite; that Primordus and Jormag are in fact still alive somewhere. Let me explain.

 

Dragon bodies dissapeared. Sure, you could say they destroyed each other, however all other Elder Dragons left their bodies after death and just released the magic. We know that Primordus and Jormag are able to travel through the mists, thanks to Balthazar, which basically means teleporting as proven by Kralkatorrik. Thus the only thing we know for sure is that both dragons are just gone.

 

The dissapearance of their minions, justified by death of their masters is odd too. Dragon minions never ceased to exist after the death of  "their" Elder Dragon. Risen are still in Orr several years after death of Zhaitan as can be seen in Siren's Landing and after Rox escorted Garm from the jungle back to Hoelbrak, she reported that the jungle was still swarming with Mordrem. Now, interesting point is, that dragon minions spread from Elder Dragon, or follow it like a footprints as could be seen after Kralkatorrik flew to Crystal Desert. So, should the dragons be still somewhere it would be only logical that their minions move after them.

 

In terms of removal of dragon magic from Braham and Ryland; Aurene used her prisms to seal both dragons from all the magic she could. So, it could suck the magic from them too, or the dragons tried to take as much magic with them as they could, practically sucking it from everything around them. Plus Aurene said that the magic moved somewhere, which may point to the fact that she was not able to claim it because the dragons form that magic spectrum were not dead or that explosion of fire and ice magic created water magic (which rushed south to the Deep Sea Dragon) or even combination of these two scenarios.

 

For me, I would like to see those two dragons again, for I would like to return to the Far Shiverpeaks or see some underground Primordus themed maps. And of course the poor dragons would have a chance to get a full body models. Not even mentioning that the beginning of Icebrood Saga was quite interesting and we could try to return the flow to the right track after that somehow weak Champions part. For who we are to say what an ancient Elder Dragon can and cannot?

 

Edited July 12, 2021 by Lord Korag.8439

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

At least half of their magic would have been absorbed by Selbbub. As to why their minions disappeared? Who's to say really. Nothing says that they have to be handled in a similar way, and may have to do with how the dragon 'corruption' happened.

 

The Devourer's are more or less coalesced dragon energy made manifest, so it makes sense for them to disappear when their dragon died.  The Icebrood willingly accepted Jormag's corruption, and as we saw near the end of LWS4, when a dragon dies their corruption (or blessing) leaves their followers, so it makes sense for the Icebrood's corruption to disappear as well.

[Sajuuk Khar.1509]

30 minutes ago, Lord Korag.8439 said:

Dragon bodies dissapeared. Sure, you could say they destroyed each other, however all other Elder Dragons left their bodies after death and just released the magic.

The other Elder Dragons didn't die in what essentially amounts to a matter/anti-matter explosion.

30 minutes ago, Lord Korag.8439 said:

We know that Primordus and Jormag are able to travel through the mists, thanks to Balthazar, which basically means teleporting as proven by Kralkatorrik.

This is incorrect. Only Jormag was shown to move through the Mists. Primordus never displayed this power, it just moved around underground.

30 minutes ago, Lord Korag.8439 said:

The dissapearance of their minions, justified by death of their masters is odd too. Dragon minions never ceased to exist after the death of  "their" Elder Dragon.

This also ignores the one key difference between Risen, Mordrem, Branded, and the minions of Kralkatorrik and Jormag. The Risen, Mordrem, and Branded, are corrupted versions of things that were already alive.

 

All Destroyers are just constructs of Primordus, animated with his magic. The moment the puppeteer dies, so would most of its minions except those with the power to keep puppeteering themselves. Jormag's minions weren't so universally elemental, but would still suffer from much of the same issues in the process. If your entire body is made of magical ice, and the thing keeping said magical ice frozen vanishes, the ice melts, and so do you.

30 minutes ago, Lord Korag.8439 said:

In terms of removal of dragon magic from Braham and Ryland; Aurene used her prisms to seal both dragons from all the magic she could. So, it could suck the magic from them too, or the dragons tried to take as much magic with them as they could, practically sucking it from everything around them. Plus Aurene said that the magic moved somewhere, which may point to the fact that she was not able to claim it because the dragons form that magic spectrum were not dead or that explosion of fire and ice magic created water magic (which rushed south to the Deep Sea Dragon) or even combination of these two scenarios.

Ryland and Braham weren't corrupted in the normal sense. They, like, Caithe, were "connected" not corrupted, resulting in their changes being undone when tier dragons died. And we know were most of the magic went. We can see it flying south after the battle overhead.

[Sajuuk Khar.1509]

1 hour ago, Lord Korag.8439 said:

For me, I would like to see those two dragons again, for I would like to return to the Far Shiverpeaks or see some underground Primordus themed maps. And of course the poor dragons would have a chance to get a full body models. Not even mentioning that the beginning of Icebrood Saga was quite interesting and we could try to return the flow to the right track after that somehow weak Champions part. For who we are to say what an ancient Elder Dragon can and cannot?

This would never happen. If you look at the previous Elder Dragons they all followed the same basic pattern, and Primordus, and Jormag ,followed, or were following, this same pattern.

 

Back in core, and LWS2 for Mordremoth, all of the Elder Dragons had "prelude" content. This is content where we are facing off against the Dragon's minions, but the story isn't about "we are going after the dragon to kill them"

• Jormag had the northern parts of Snowden, and Wayfarer, as well as Frostgorge, where its champion, the Claw of Jormag, was.
• Kralkatorrik had the Dragonbrand, which ran through Fields of Ruin, Balzeridge(where its champ the Shatterer was), and Iron Marches.
• Zhaitan had the southern parts of Bloodtide, as well as Sparkfly Fen, where its champion Tequatl was.
• Primordus was more scattershot, due to being the underground dragon that could come up anywhere. But its minions were present in Metrica, Brisban, Kessex, Lornar's, Timberline, and OFC Mount Maelstrom where its champion the Megadestroyer was.
• Mordremoth had Dry Top, Iron Marches, and the Silverwastes. Where its champion, the Vinewrath was.

 

When it came to actually fighting the Dragons, they too shared the same pattern here.

• Zhaitan had three maps, the three Orr maps(Straights of Devastation, Malchor's Leap, and Cursed Shore), capped off with the Dragon fight itself in Arah story mode.
• Mordremoth had three maps, Verdant Brink, Auric Basic, and Tangled Depths, capped off with the actual dragon fight itself in Dragon's Stand, which replaced Arah since everyone hated Arah.
• Kralkatorrik had three maps, Vabbi, Jahai, and Thunderhead, capped off with the actual dragon fight itself in Dragonfall.
• Jormag had three maps, Bitterfrost, Bjora, and Drizzlewood, capped off with the actual dragon fight itself in Dragonstorm.
• Primordus got two maps, Ember Bay and Draconis Mons, and the DRMs, capped off with the actual dragon fight itself in Dragonstorm.

 

We know that Icebrood Saga was originally going to have 4 more chapters in it, instead of the 4 Champions releases. And with how Chapters 1/2, and 3/4 went, where each was one half of one story, and one half of one map, the latter chapters would have likely followed in this same respect. Using the IBS trailer, comments from the devs, and dialog in the EoTN, we can pretty clearly make out what those last two chapter pairs, and maps, would have been.

• Chapters 5/6 would have been in the Centaur Homelands in the Woodland Cascades, and would have featured Primordus's rise, and his minion's invasion, as seen in the first two Champions releases(We see Centaurs in the trailer, Anet talked about wanting to do a Centaur storyline, and there is dialog in the EoTN about destroyers pushing the Centaurs out of their lands)
• Chapters 7/8 would have been the full Dragonstorm map meta around Anvil Rock, and would feature the escalation of dragon minion attacks, and the death of both dragons, as seen in the latter two Champions releases.(the literal end of the IBS trailer is all the hero characters squaring off with Jormag's forces coming out of a massive storm, a literal Dragonstorm)

This would have meant that both Jormag and Primrodus would have followed the "three maps + a dragon fight" pattern the other elder Dragons followed. There was never going to be another underground Primordus map. The Underground stuff relating to Primordus was covered back in HoT, and LWS3, with Rata Novus, and Draconis Mons.

 

If we ever go back to the far North it would be to do the Centaur plotline that got cut from IBS, which wouldn't involve much, if any, underground content.

Edited July 12, 2021 by Sajuuk Khar.1509

[Ashantara.8731]

1 hour ago, Lord Korag.8439 said:

Are Primordus and Jormag truly dead?

 

Yes. They have tragically been wasted in a once promising storyline.

[Zola.6197]

My first thought after Dragonstorm was that the chest was a new dragon egg, and that the twins were going to be reborn with a clean slate.  In a sort of… yin and yang cancellation/rebalancing kind of way. That did not turn out to be the case, but initially that’s what first came to mind. I thought that was at least a decent way to “kill the dragons” and replace them with more innocent versions of themselves all in one fell swoop.

 

Not that it would’ve made much more sense than the ending we got, anyway lol.

Edited July 12, 2021 by Zola.6197

[Lord Korag.8439]

2 hours ago, Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

This is incorrect. Only Jormag was shown to move through the Mists. Primordus never displayed this power, it just moved around underground.

So, Primordus was stirred by magic released by death of Abaddon, later claimed magic from Zhaitan and Mordremoth. But somehow, he wouldn't find magic from Balthazar and Kralkatorrik worth the effort?

2 hours ago, Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

The other Elder Dragons didn't die in what essentially amounts to a matter/anti-matter explosion.

This is incorrect. Only Jormag was shown to move through the Mists. Primordus never displayed this power, it just moved around underground.

This also ignores the one key difference between Risen, Mordrem, Branded, and the minions of Kralkatorrik and Jormag. The Risen, Mordrem, and Branded, are corrupted versions of things that were already alive.

 

All Destroyers are just constructs of Primordus, animated with his magic. The moment the puppeteer dies, so would most of its minions except those with the power to keep puppeteering themselves. Jormag's minions weren't so universally elemental, but would still suffer from much of the same issues in the process. If your entire body is made of magical ice, and the thing keeping said magical ice frozen vanishes, the ice melts, and so do you.

Risen Abominations and Risen Knights are flesh constructs created literally from pieces of flesh. Most of basic (non-mordrem guard) Mordrem are created in Blighting pods by creating a plant copy of original being. Not even talking about Tormentors, Husks and Teragriffs. ("The dragon is dead. And we, Sylvari, are still here." - contains Pale Tree, but still...) Branded Lieutenants and Wrathbringers were also directly created by Kralkatorrik.

By this logic, should you be a Risen Abomination, after death of Zhaitan, who keeps your flesh animated, you should complete your decomposition and fall apart. Yet, they are still there.

Edited July 12, 2021 by Lord Korag.8439

[Lord Korag.8439]

1 hour ago, Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

This would never happen. If you look at the previous Elder Dragons they all followed the same basic pattern, and Primordus, and Jormag ,followed, or were following, this same pattern.

 

Back in core, and LWS2 for Mordremoth, all of the Elder Dragons had "prelude" content. This is content where we are facing off against the Dragon's minions, but the story isn't about "we are going after the dragon to kill them"

• Jormag had the northern parts of Snowden, and Wayfarer, as well as Frostgorge, where its champion, the Claw of Jormag, was.
• Kralkatorrik had the Dragonbrand, which ran through Fields of Ruin, Balzeridge(where its champ the Shatterer was), and Iron Marches.
• Zhaitan had the southern parts of Bloodtide, as well as Sparkfly Fen, where its champion Tequatl was.
• Primordus was more scattershot, due to being the underground dragon that could come up anywhere. But its minions were present in Metrica, Brisban, Kessex, Lornar's, Timberline, and OFC Mount Maelstrom where its champion the Megadestroyer was.
• Mordremoth had Dry Top, Iron Marches, and the Silverwastes. Where its champion, the Vinewrath was.

 

When it came to actually fighting the Dragons, they too shared the same pattern here.

• Zhaitan had three maps, the three Orr maps(Straights of Devastation, Malchor's Leap, and Cursed Shore), capped off with the Dragon fight itself in Arah story mode.
• Mordremoth had three maps, Verdant Brink, Auric Basic, and Tangled Depths, capped off with the actual dragon fight itself in Dragon's Stand, which replaced Arah since everyone hated Arah.
• Kralkatorrik had three maps, Vabbi, Jahai, and Thunderhead, capped off with the actual dragon fight itself in Dragonfall.
• Jormag had three maps, Bitterfrost, Bjora, and Drizzlewood, capped off with the actual dragon fight itself in Dragonstorm.
• Primordus got two maps, Ember Bay and Draconis Mons, and the DRMs, capped off with the actual dragon fight itself in Dragonstorm.

 

We know that Icebrood Saga was originally going to have 4 more chapters in it, instead of the 4 Champions releases. And with how Chapters 1/2, and 3/4 went, where each was one half of one story, and one half of one map, the latter chapters would have likely followed in this same respect. Using the IBS trailer, comments from the devs, and dialog in the EoTN, we can pretty clearly make out what those last two chapter pairs, and maps, would have been.

• Chapters 5/6 would have been in the Centaur Homelands in the Woodland Cascades, and would have featured Primordus's rise, and his minion's invasion, as seen in the first two Champions releases(We see Centaurs in the trailer, Anet talked about wanting to do a Centaur storyline, and there is dialog in the EoTN about destroyers pushing the Centaurs out of their lands)
• Chapters 7/8 would have been the full Dragonstorm map meta around Anvil Rock, and would feature the escalation of dragon minion attacks, and the death of both dragons, as seen in the latter two Champions releases.(the literal end of the IBS trailer is all the hero characters squaring off with Jormag's forces coming out of a massive storm, a literal Dragonstorm)

This would have meant that both Jormag and Primrodus would have followed the "three maps + a dragon fight" pattern the other elder Dragons followed. There was never going to be another underground Primordus map. The Underground stuff relating to Primordus was covered back in HoT, and LWS3, with Rata Novus, and Draconis Mons.

 

If we ever go back to the far North it would be to do the Centaur plotline that got cut from IBS, which wouldn't involve much, if any, underground content.

I don't see this as a competition for who has more maps. Should it be so, I would argue that Mordremoth has an entire DLC and Zhaitan almost half of the core maps (which is both obviously much more than two relatively small LS maps + a lab originally focused on Destroyers). Also, do not mess Far Shiverpeaks and Woodland Cascades together.

Edited July 12, 2021 by Lord Korag.8439

[Sajuuk Khar.1509]

25 minutes ago, Lord Korag.8439 said:

So, Primordus was stirred by magic released by death of Abaddon, later claimed magic from Zhaitan and Mordremoth. But somehow, he wouldn't find magic from Balthazar and Kralkatorrik worth the effort?

They explained this back in LWS3. When a dragon, or other powerful entity, dies, the Elder Dragons do not get equal shares of the dead things magic. Its based on things like proximity, ley line paths, and other factors. They don't get to decide what they get/go after.

 

Jormag got Kralk/Balthazar's ability to mist travel, and seemingly Kralk's power to "freeze" creatures over. Like Kralk did with its brand crystals, Jormag does with it freezing people over. Primordus on the other hand seemingly got Kralk's resonance with its minions, and Kralk's brand meteor power that it used in Istan, which Primordus uses for lava meteors instead.

25 minutes ago, Lord Korag.8439 said:

Risen Abomations and Risen Knights are flesh constructs created literally from pieces of flesh. Most of basic (non-mordrem guard) Mordrem are created in Blighting pods by creating a plant copy of original being. Not even talking about Tormentors, Husks and Teragriffs. ("The dragon is dead. And we, Sylvari, are still here." - contains Pale Tree, but still...) Branded Lieutenants and Wrathbringers were also directly created by Kralkatorrik.

By this logic, should you be a Risen Abomation, after death of Zhaitan, who keeps your flesh animated, you should complete your decomposition and fall apart. Yet, they are still there.

Well, a lot of this is wrong.

• Most Mordrem are created by corrupting living things. Some of them are created via blighting pod copies, but most of them are actually corrupted living things.
• The Sylvari were created from the Pale Tree, which itself was severed from Mordremoth ages ago. The Sylvari never directly sustained due to Mordremoth's magic, so they wouldn't have ever died from its death.
• Lieutenants like the Wrathbringers are the powerful minions that can keep puppeteering themselves I mentioned earlier.

 

And looking at Siren's Landing on the wiki, the Risen Abominations don't appear there. They all seemingly died off once Zhaitan was defeated. Likely due to no one being around to puppet them anymore. And lo and behold Gorrik mentions that many Icebrood and Destroyers are still around too.

Edited July 12, 2021 by Sajuuk Khar.1509

[Sajuuk Khar.1509]

19 minutes ago, Lord Korag.8439 said:

I don't see this as a competition for who has more maps.

Nor do I. In fact, I explicitly pointed out how all the dragons got roughly equal maps... the exact opposite of claiming any one of them got more maps then the other.

19 minutes ago, Lord Korag.8439 said:

Should it be so, I would argue that Mordremoth has an entire DLC and Zhaitan almost half of the core maps (which is both obviously much more than two relatively small LS maps + a lab originally focused on Destroyers).

Yes, Mordremoth did get an entire expansion... of three maps and a dragon fight. And Jormag got three maps, Bitterfrost, Bjora, and Drizzlewood, plus a dragon fight. Primordus would have gotten the same too.

 

There is no difference between packing them up as a singular expansion, or releasing them over time. Its the same amount of content either way. They could have packaged Bitterfrost, Bjora, Drizzlewood, and Dragonstorm together, and released it as a "The Frozen North" expansion, and it wouldn't be any different then what Mordremoth got, or what it is now. The only difference is how they marketed it.

Edited July 12, 2021 by Sajuuk Khar.1509

[Lord Korag.8439]

12 minutes ago, Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

Most Mordrem are created by corrupting living things. Some of them are created via blighting pod copies, but most of them are actually corrupted living things.

Mordremoth never (at least in the vast majority of cases) corrupted. He captured or killed the victim and then used the body dead (thanks Zhaitan) or alive for copying. He surely was able to just corrupt, but for some reason didn't use this ability at all. If you don't believe me, I recoment you to replay HoT storyline again.

12 minutes ago, Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

They explained this back in LWS3. When a dragon, or other powerful entity, dies, the Elder Dragons do not get equal shares of the dead things magic. Its based on things like proximity, ley line paths, and other factors. They don't get to decide what they get/go after.

I understand, Primordus moved across the entire map not to get more magic from Zhaitan's and Mordremoth's resting places but because he liked the way and wanted to give Balthazar a nice wide volcano to meet together.

Edited July 12, 2021 by Lord Korag.8439

[Sajuuk Khar.1509]

4 minutes ago, Lord Korag.8439 said:

Mordremoth never (at least in the vast majority of cases) corrupted. He captured or killed the victim and then used the body dead (thanks Zhaitan) or alive for copying. He surely was able to just corrupt, but for some reason didn't use this ability at all. If you don't believe me, I recoment you to replay HoT storyline again.

I replayed the HoT storyline not too long ago. the only time we see him make copies of things are of his champions, and of Zojja and Logan. Most of his minions were corrupted things from the jungle.

4 minutes ago, Lord Korag.8439 said:

I understand, Primordus moved across the entire map not to get more magic from Zhaitan's and Mordremoth's resting places but because he liked the way and wanted to give Balthazar a nice wide volcano to meet.

No? No one even implied this.... what are you going on about?

 

You also seem to forget that both Jormag and Primrodus were put to sleep at the end of LWS3, thanks to Balthazar's use of Taimi's machine, and neither awakened again until Jormag Rising/Champions. So neither would have been awake to move to Kralk's death spot to absorb his magic. They would have just gotten whatever went their way while they were asleep.

Edited July 12, 2021 by Sajuuk Khar.1509

[Lord Korag.8439]

9 minutes ago, Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

I replayed the HoT storyline not too long ago. the only time we see him make copies of things are of his champions, and of Zojja and Logan. Most of his minions were corrupted things from the jungle.

No? No one even implied this.... what are you going on about?

Verdant Brink, destroing those green things on the ground. NPC literally tell you there are dead bodies in those and Mordremoth is copying Mordrem from them. Actually there are several NPC dialogues across whole jungle directly pointing to the fact that Mordremoth is just copying and not corrupting (except the fact that his copying is a form of corruption...) He just takes a frog, puts it into the pod and he has multiple plant frog Mordrem.

 

9 minutes ago, Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

You also seem to forget that both Jormag and Primrodus werep ut to sleep at the end of LWS3, thanks to Balthazar's use of Taimi's machine, and neither awakened again until Jormag Rising/Champions. So neither would have been awake to move to Kralk's death spot to absorb his magic. They would have just gotten whatever went their way while they were asleep.

That is why only Primordus got so much green minions. However the core abilities all spread the same. Also mentioned by Taimi at some point in Dragon lab.

Edited July 12, 2021 by Lord Korag.8439

[voltaicbore.8012]

Let them both rest in peace, alongside their wasted potential. I see no reason to want them dredged back up and dishonored even further with weird and unnecessary revisitation.

 

This is not to say that the dragons couldn't find some way to make it back from the dead, so to speak. They can, in fact, do whatever the narrative team wants them to do, which is precisely why I'd rather not see the two dragons ever again. I can't imagine there's anything of real narrative value left in bringing them back at this point, and it would all be much to contrived and hand-wavy for my tastes.

 

If anything, I'd say the scrying pool offers the best opportunity for ANet to revisit elements of the main storyline. It allows us to travel back to points in time when these characters might be more active and alive, as opposed to awkwardly resurrecting them. 

Edited July 12, 2021 by voltaicbore.8012

[Sajuuk Khar.1509]

31 minutes ago, Lord Korag.8439 said:

Verdant Brink, destroing those green things on the ground. NPC literally tell you there are dead bodies in those and Mordremoth is copying Mordrem from them. Actually there are several NPC dialogues across whole jungle directly pointing to the fact that Mordremoth is just copying and not corrupting (except the fact that his copying is a form of corruption...)

I looked through the VB dialog for the various zones/events. Only reference to things coming back I could see was in reference to the champion Blademaster Diarmid, one of the champion I had already mentioned earlier. And Anet themselves have said it spread itself by doing both corrupting, and copying. It isn't just taking one of everything and copying it endlessly.

31 minutes ago, Lord Korag.8439 said:

That is why only Primordus got so much green minions. However the core abilities all spread the same. Also mentioned by Taimi at some point in Dragon lab.

She says they each get a part of their spectrum. And they did. Each dragon got part of Kralk's spectrums, she never says they all get all the powers equally.

Edited July 12, 2021 by Sajuuk Khar.1509

[Sajuuk Khar.1509]

5 minutes ago, voltaicbore.8012 said:

Let them both rest in peace, alongside their wasted potential.

I always enjoy it when I see comments like this because I've never actually seen people explain what was wasted about... well anything they claim was wasted, otuside of really over the top narratives that would have never happened because they don't make sense.

[voltaicbore.8012]

17 hours ago, Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

I always enjoy it when I see comments like this because I've never actually seen people explain what was wasted about... well anything they claim was wasted, otuside of really over the top narratives that would have never happened because they don't make sense.

 

I do loathe your often patronizing tone demonstrated amply across most of what I've seen from you in the forums, but I'm (partially) guilty as charged here. I honestly don't have many specific suggestions in mind, and I didn't offer any despite having strong labels for what I thought of the story involving these two dragons. The few things I do have in mind are not really "over the top" by any standard I can think of, but by that same token are so pedestrian that they are almost not worthy of any mention at all. In fact, I wouldn't bother to, outside of feeling called out by you here.

 

As for the 'wasted potential' I was referring to, I didn't have anything particularly fancy to offer. I simply would have preferred an opportunity to see more of the dwarves than we did in the Thunderhead DRM, particularly the depths they occupied prior to following the destroyers closer to the surface again. As for Jormag, I think we actually got a pretty solid treatment of it overall. I do feel like Jormag's motivation to show up to a direct confrontation in Dragonstorm is logically sufficient, but just barely so - I personally wanted something along the lines of Jormag having known about the ley-line compulsion mechanism for a long time and attempting to use it to its advantage, but instead had it used against them in the way Dragonstorm turned out.

 

Ultimately, I don't think either of the preferences I presented here are of great narrative significance. The dwarves in particular would really just be a few more voice-acted entries in the lorebook, and nothing more. The ley-line compulsion mechanism served its story purpose quite efficiently, and any side tangents to it would really smack of just being pure filler to delay the end result.

I don't think either of these things are nonsensical, but they also "would have never happened" because... they're just not that interesting or important compared to what we got.

Edited July 13, 2021 by voltaicbore.8012

[Touchme.1097]

I think they are all dead except Zhaitan, I could very well see the End of Dragons as the merging of all the Dragons in one 6 headed colossal monster, this would be pretty cool.

[Amanda Whitemoon.6173]

we probably wont see Primordus or Jormag back but, i would like to see a Great destroyer like minion coming back , like Tequatl Rising, trying to gain the power of its former master, (the Great Destroyer was kinda the dragon shaped champion of Primordus similar to tequatl, shatterer and claw of jormag)

[Nico.9361]

On 7/13/2021 at 5:59 AM, Touchme.1097 said:

I think they are all dead except Zhaitan, I could very well see the End of Dragons as the merging of all the Dragons in one 6 headed colossal monster, this would be pretty cool.

 
Zhaitan is dead. There was his body floating somewhere in the water near Orr.

[Trejgon.9367]

43 minutes ago, NotTooFoolish.7412 said:

 
Zhaitan is dead. There was his body floating somewhere in the water near Orr.

to be precise it was visible on the map of arah explorable, within the city istelf on the ground 😉

[Touchme.1097]

4 hours ago, NotTooFoolish.7412 said:

 
Zhaitan is dead. There was his body floating somewhere in the water near Orr.

How much do we know about death when it comes to Elder Dragons? Thanks for the info but I still think something is not dead dead yet, it could be another villain perhaps, who knows? 🙂

[radda.8920]

2 hours ago, Touchme.1097 said:

How much do we know about death when it comes to Elder Dragons? Thanks for the info but I still think something is not dead dead yet, it could be another villain perhaps, who knows? 🙂

They have to finish the dragons in ONE expansion so settle steeve's case in a few missions... do you really think they have time to bring back zhaitan?

[The Greyhawk.9107]

They did have pieces (its tail to be exact) at the Priory in one of the LS chapters (can't be bothered atm to check which one).  I'm willing to think that Zhaitan is very much expired.

[starhunter.6015]

Well we know Zhaitan used minions for eyes, for his mouth, who to say that thing we killed was not just another Minion for his Body and his mind could still be alive and severely weakened due to loss of all the magic that was stored in his body. It's funny they have updated Dragon Bash with all the slain Dragons but Zhaitan and Mordremoth.....