New path to legendary armor?

[rrusse.7058]

5 minutes ago, Firebeard.1746 said:

unless the OP posted something later, they weren't talking about the absolute minimum timespan to earn, they're talking about total time invested

You’re right. We should be trying to talk about this without creating straw man arguments.

 

I’m wondering how much time it takes to reasonably to craft a legendary set through WvW exclusively. Is 6 months reasonable? A little more than that?

8 minutes ago, Firebeard.1746 said:

I'm absolutely certain that even though WvW is the easiest in terms of effort, it's the worst in terms of total time spent.

Could you expand in this? What does “worst” mean in this context?

[Astralporing.1957]

3 hours ago, Linken.6345 said:

 

Did you read the IF in that post you think is wrong?

it changes the whole sentance mate.

Does it?

Let's just ignore that the original post he responded to mentioned also Stronghold for SPvP (which is not capped - the amount of stronghold instances is only limited by the number of players willing to play that map). If you think that the map cap of Eternal Battleground would be the main problem with the suggestion of letting WvW players earn pips only in Stonemist, and that if that cap were removed, WvW players would have been okay with that idea, you haven't been playing alot of WvW either.

 

 

2 hours ago, Infusion.7149 said:

Well according to the topic creator, 22 weeks is a "quite a long time" and even though WvW was in their own words "THE most approachable path, and that still limits you to a fairly strict set of parameters for quite a long time to earn yourself a suit of armor (22 weeks for the cheap one)."

What that means is they :
1. don't think 22 weeks is short enough ... when that is also what the timeframe is roughly for a second set of PvE armor if you do Wing1-4 and don't convert LD to LI ; legendary PvP armor has a similar timeframe as well
2. consider pipping a "strict set of a parameters" which is ludicrous to anyone who has WvWed at all

You are missing a significant point here: it is being spoken from a point of view of non-WvW player. Remember, that for non-WvW players, getting to diamond requires time investment that for most players completely preclude them having any time on any other activity. So, we're talking about someone not playing the gamemode they prefer for half a year.

 

Yes, sacrificing 22 weeks of your gaming time to play completely different mode that does not interest you, and having to sit there for hours with no ability of doing any ingame activity you might actually like in the meantime can be considered to be both quite long and stringent.

 

Imagine telling a Raider that for the next 22 weeks they are to play 3-4 hours a day, every day, of silverwastes farm (no breaks). I wonder if they would consider it to be a short time, and the requirements to be loose.

 

On the other hand, 22 weeks of comparable PvE content (which would be playing any map/LS you want for those 2-3 hours a day) for most PvE players would not be an issue. Although for many it would take longer, because not everyone is able to play 2-3 hours on daily basis.

 

[Infusion.7149]

32 minutes ago, Firebeard.1746 said:

unless the OP posted something later, they weren't talking about the absolute minimum timespan to earn, they're talking about total time invested (they literally said ALOT of WvW, not that 22 weeks is too long). I'm sure few people max tickets every week, even if they want to.

I'm absolutely certain that even though WvW is the easiest in terms of effort, it's the worst in terms of total time spent.

And this is something you do alot, deflecting towards minimum timespan instead of total time to earn. It's not helpful and I know you're doing it on purpose.

Doing what on purpose?
How am I deflecting? I was not the one that made the topic and in the current state of the game there is no such thing as openworld legendary armor. The onus is on the person or person(s) suggesting it to provide proof of why it is necessary. These are additional resources that would need to be spent that could be better spent elsewhere , because we all know collections aren't simple to make if it involves anything that has scripting (unlike say a WVW legendary which is literally just loot + skirmish ticket).

Even if you only obtain gold in WVW every week, it's ~40% of tickets.

You could just buy raids or get carried by guildmates that are willing to help you if it's so much a problem. Seems that's what is the point of the thread, just do "what you want" to get legendary armor. In fact it is less time investment that way if the only thing you care about is time investment. There's people paying for DRM CMs just to afk in them.

The game mode argument is a tired one. PvE is PvE. Skills and templates aren't split for raid and PVE, they are split for PVE, WVW, and PVP.

Plus on top of that I have given plenty of examples of non-raid PVE complaints players have had over the years such as pre-nerf HoT, Marionette, Serpent's Ire , Chalice of Tears, adventures people don't do, etc. Don't think that an openworld PvE armorset will be something you will end up liking just because it's openworld.

----

Astralporing, it's incredibly naive to think any openworld legendary would necessarily be content someone likes. Playing "any map/LS" is contrary to any existing collection. For example go into Draconis Mons and you will see people complain about Aurora's Wayfarer Henge collection.
 

19 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

You are missing a significant point here: it is being spoken from a point of view of non-WvW player. Remember, that for non-WvW players, getting to diamond requires time investment that for most players completely preclude them having any time on any other activity. So, we're talking about someone not playing the gamemode they prefer for half a year.

 

Yes, sacrificing 22 weeks of your gaming time to play completely different mode that does not interest you, and having to sit there for hours with no ability of doing any ingame activity you might actually like in the meantime can be considered to be both quite long and stringent.

 

Imagine telling a Raider that for the next 22 weeks they are to play 3-4 hours a day, every day, of silverwastes farm (no breaks). I wonder if they would consider it to be a short time, and the requirements to be loose.

 

On the other hand, 22 weeks of comparable PvE content (which would be playing any map/LS you want for those 2-3 hours a day) for most PvE players would not be an issue. Although for many it would take longer, because not everyone is able to play 2-3 hours on daily basis.

 

Edited July 19, 2021 by Infusion.7149

[Sobx.1758]

45 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Does it?

Let's just ignore that the original post he responded to mentioned also Stronghold for SPvP (which is not capped - the amount of stronghold instances is only limited by the number of players willing to play that map). If you think that the map cap of Eternal Battleground would be the main problem with the suggestion of letting WvW players earn pips only in Stonemist, and that if that cap were removed, WvW players would have been okay with that idea, you haven't been playing alot of WvW either

Yeah, it would be weird not to ignore it when it had nothing to do with my response or your responses (even the one you've made before my post, where you've already shared your adamant position about people that raid* not playing other modes 😆). Of course suddenly reducing the number/types of maps isn't optimal, but if you think people wouldn't adjust to it, you're clueless.

 

You just have your own made up picture of people in your head to match your agendas and can't believe when it doesn't fit reality. It's... interesting.

 

Edited July 19, 2021 by Sobx.1758
* "people that raid and are opposing your opinions in this thread"

[Linken.6345]

32 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Does it?

Let's just ignore that the original post he responded to mentioned also Stronghold for SPvP (which is not capped - the amount of stronghold instances is only limited by the number of players willing to play that map). If you think that the map cap of Eternal Battleground would be the main problem with the suggestion of letting WvW players earn pips only in Stonemist, and that if that cap were removed, WvW players would have been okay with that idea, you haven't been playing alot of WvW either.

 

If you could spawn as many map copies as needed to get into stonemist fights and that was the only way to earn pips people would do the 100%.

[Astralporing.1957]

22 minutes ago, Infusion.7149 said:

Astralporing, it's incredibly naive to think any openworld legendary would necessarily be content someone likes. Playing "any map/LS" is contrary to any existing collection. For example go into Draconis Mons and you will see people complain about Aurora's Wayfarer Henge collection.

Possibly, even probably. Notice, though, that it does impact whether those 22 weeks would be a long time or short one. It's short if it's something you would be doing anyway (as in case of Raiders, SPvPers and WvWers). It's not short however if it requires you to completely reshedule your gaming around it for that whole time.

 

From the point of view of average PvEr there's no real difference between spending 22 weeks several hours a day farming silverwastes or farming WvW. Both would be boring as kitten, and most players would go insane/burn out long before reaching the goal. And both would prevent those players from doing what they actually like.

 

And that's why Wayfarer's henge, while timegated as kitten, takes 16 days which you can spread around as you want. It does not take anything like 22 weeks of timegates you can not easily cut into smaller pieces due to later tiers of reward chests giving significantly more tickets than initial ones. And also why there are no other significant timegates for Aurora added on top of it.

 

So, if legendary armor acquisition for "general PvE" would follow Aurora's path, it might easily end up being much, much faster than the WvW option.

[Astralporing.1957]

21 minutes ago, Linken.6345 said:

If you could spawn as many map copies as needed to get into stonemist fights and that was the only way to earn pips people would do the 100%.

Possibly, yes. But would have hated it. It would no longer be the WvW they wanted to play.

It would also have a potential of completely destroying WvW as it is now. You and Sobx obviously did not think out all the changes that introducing multiple copies of EB, and pulling WvW population into them would bring to the mode.

[Linken.6345]

16 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Possibly, yes. But would have hated it. It would no longer be the WvW they wanted to play.

It would also have a potential of completely destroying WvW as it is now. You and Sobx obviously did not think out all the changes that introducing multiple copies of EB, and pulling WvW population into them would bring to the mode.

Thats not the question Sobx answered with his post tho.

 

hash.8462 said:

I'm wondering what players would say if WvW pips would be obtainable only in Enternal Battleground when successfully capturing or defending Stonemist Castle, or if PvP players only get them by winning in Stronghold.

 

They would grumble and do it as that is what was required to get the thing they wanted.

 

Honestly trying to compare a mode were you are limited in how many people can be on a map vs 1 were infinite copies of the same instance can be created so noone is locked out is quite dumb to begin with.

[Xanadrine.4352]

2 hours ago, rrusse.7058 said:

You’re right. We should be trying to talk about this without creating straw man arguments.

 

I’m wondering how much time it takes to reasonably to craft a legendary set through WvW exclusively. Is 6 months reasonable? A little more than that?

Could you expand in this? What does “worst” mean in this context?

WvW is about year long grind 67 weeks i do believe, you have an easier and faster time of it getting the pve. yeah its a lot of collections and raid carries but its way faster.

 

Actually i'll amend that, if you do pvp its also faster.

Edited July 20, 2021 by Zuldari.3940

[Jilora.9524]

1 hour ago, Linken.6345 said:

If you could spawn as many map copies as needed to get into stonemist fights and that was the only way to earn pips people would do the 100%.

I wouldn't. In fact that sounds terrible. I'm like rank 4k so maybe add what rank you guys are with this idea. I can't imagine some of you play WvW at all with this thinking

[Firebeard.1746]

2 hours ago, Infusion.7149 said:

Doing what on purpose?
How am I deflecting? I was not the one that made the topic and in the current state of the game there is no such thing as openworld legendary armor. The onus is on the person or person(s) suggesting it to provide proof of why it is necessary. These are additional resources that would need to be spent that could be better spent elsewhere , because we all know collections aren't simple to make if it involves anything that has scripting (unlike say a WVW legendary which is literally just loot + skirmish ticket).

Even if you only obtain gold in WVW every week, it's ~40% of tickets.

You could just buy raids or get carried by guildmates that are willing to help you if it's so much a problem. Seems that's what is the point of the thread, just do "what you want" to get legendary armor. In fact it is less time investment that way if the only thing you care about is time investment. There's people paying for DRM CMs just to afk in them.

The game mode argument is a tired one. PvE is PvE. Skills and templates aren't split for raid and PVE, they are split for PVE, WVW, and PVP.

Plus on top of that I have given plenty of examples of non-raid PVE complaints players have had over the years such as pre-nerf HoT, Marionette, Serpent's Ire , Chalice of Tears, adventures people don't do, etc. Don't think that an openworld PvE armorset will be something you will end up liking just because it's openworld.

----

Astralporing, it's incredibly naive to think any openworld legendary would necessarily be content someone likes. Playing "any map/LS" is contrary to any existing collection. For example go into Draconis Mons and you will see people complain about Aurora's Wayfarer Henge collection.
 

This entire post is a deflection. I call out that you purposefully misquote the OP to try to make the modes look even when they're not and you write this entire rant.

 

Quote

You could just buy raids or get carried by guildmates that are willing to help you if it's so much a problem.

You must have really nice guild mates. One of my guilds literally trained people on the encounters left over from statics, with no cared about peoples' collections or LI improvement. And it was one of my few ones that actually raided.

Also if you knew anything about farming and the going rates for carries it's about 200g/boss last I checked. Even though PVP and WvW suck in terms of time taken, the time taken to farm that amount of gold is non-trivial and even worse comparied to WvW, just check the stats on eu fast farming. That's basically 7.5-10hours per LI. That's not competitive even with WvW at 3 pips/tick. And even them, most of those higher rates of return on time usually require very specific comps and lots of people, not much better than actually raiding.

Basically all your posts are are platitudes to ignore the core problems. The problem the OP originally mentioned was time investment, NOT time span and you decided to construe it as a time span issue.

Edited July 20, 2021 by Firebeard.1746

[Infusion.7149]

8 minutes ago, Firebeard.1746 said:

This entire post is a deflection. I call out that you purposefully misquote the OP to try to make the modes look even when they're not.

 

You must have really nice guild mates. One of my guilds literally trained people on the encounters left over from statics, with no care about peoples' collections or LI improvement. And it was one of my few ones that actually raided.

Also if you knew anything about farming and the going rates for carries it's about 200g/boss last I checked. Even though PVP and WvW suck in terms of time taken, the time taken to farm that amount of gold is non-trivial and even worse comparied to WvW, just check the stats on eu fast farming.

Basically all your posts are are platitudes to ignore the core problems. The problem the OP originally mentioned was time investment, NOT time span and you decided to construe it as a time span issue.

The quote was literally copy pasted. I did not misquote the original poster. It seems you're here for the sake of arguing for it, with no actual substance other than to drop vocabulary words.

One of the general guilds I am in carries people that don't know the raid every week: all they ask is people know the mechanics. In addition, that's basically the purpose of any training guild of which there are many. Keep in mind we are talking about W1-4 , which is where armor comes from.

So what is it? Don't want to pay? Don't want to learn? Don't want to use any time at all? There's always gems to gold , that's what a lot of DRM CM buyers do.

Whats' the core problem? That people in openworld need a legendary armor set to beat the content or swap stats for some unknown reason when the content is stagnant? That's not a need.

Edited July 20, 2021 by Infusion.7149

[Firebeard.1746]

3 minutes ago, Infusion.7149 said:

The quote was literally copy pasted. I did not misquote the original poster. It seems you're here for the sake of arguing for it, with no actual substance other than to drop vocabulary words.

One of the general guilds I am in carries people that don't know the raid every week: all they ask is people know the mechanics. In addition, that's basically the purpose of any training guild of which there are many. Keep in mind we are talking about W1-4 , which is where armor comes from.

So what is it? Don't want to pay? Don't want to learn? Don't want to use any time at all? There's always gems to gold , that's what a lot of DRM CM buyers do.

Whats' the core problem? That people in openworld need a legendary armor set to beat the content or swap stats for some unknown reason when the content is stagnant? That's not a need.

If there was a direct quote,. then why this summarized comment I was specifically responding to? If I had seen the so-called quote, I wouldn't have said ANYTHING.

 

Quote

Well according to the topic creator, 22 weeks is a "quite a long time" and even though WvW was in their own words "THE most approachable path, and that still limits you to a fairly strict set of parameters for quite a long time to earn yourself a suit of armor (22 weeks for the cheap one)."

You're pathologically dishonest.

Quote from OP:

 

Quote

a LOT of wvw, or a crazy amount of ranked pvp.

Nothing about 22 weeks there bud. He's specifically talking about time spent in the game mode. Not time span.

Edited July 20, 2021 by Firebeard.1746

[Infusion.7149]

Read past first post.

 

[Ayrilana.1396]

2 hours ago, rrusse.7058 said:

Could you expand in this? What does “worst” mean in this context?

A lot of people, not saying the poster which you had quoted did this, tend to use inequitable comparisons between the modes.
 

For example, they’ll use the rate of a highly efficient squad doing full raid clears and compare it to the rate of that of a newbie WvW player as far a legendary armor acquisition goes. Several months ago, there was actually one such poster that actually did this but I cannot remember who it was. They even used the worst case scenario as far as pips per tick as well. 
 

If comparisons are to be made between game modes then they should be made between players at an equitable level. If you’re comparing a pro raider then you have to compare a pro WvW player who likely has a lower rank. If you’re going to compare a beginner WvW player then you compare that with a person just starting raids. 
 

To be honest, unless you join a group consistently which carries you while you learn raids, WvW will be faster. It takes time not only to learn raids but for groups to get to the level to successfully complete all of them in a reasonable time. The person who you quoted was incorrect. 

Edited July 20, 2021 by Ayrilana.1396

[Firebeard.1746]

He's actually still complaining about the same thing I'm telling you:

 

Quote

Yes, but huge swathes of players don't like raids, I'd estimate about 90% of the playerbase never touches them.  WvW at the moment is THE most approachable path, and that still limits you to a fairly strict set of parameters for quite a long time to earn yourself a suit of armor (22 weeks for the cheap one).  PvP is even more limiting, as there's almost no variety to what you're ultimately doing when you're doing pvp.  What I'm asking for is a new, more approachable route to a new suit of legendary armor that doesn't require long hauls inside game modes that are moderately (wvw) to severely (pvp) restricting in regards to what you can actually do gameplay-wise.

he's acknowledging almost all of his time would be spent in WvW for 22 weeks if he ground that hard and comparing how much variation in activities there are between PVP and WvW. So no, this is still the same thing. The time dedication is the issue, not the span. The span is an issue in that that's how long you're expected to dedicate your life to WvW if you want it ASAP (just shy of 6 months for the most basic version).

Edited July 20, 2021 by Firebeard.1746

[Endilbiach.4132]

25 minutes ago, Infusion.7149 said:

The quote was literally copy pasted. I did not misquote the original poster. It seems you're here for the sake of arguing for it, with no actual substance other than to drop vocabulary words.

One of the general guilds I am in carries people that don't know the raid every week: all they ask is people know the mechanics. In addition, that's basically the purpose of any training guild of which there are many. Keep in mind we are talking about W1-4 , which is where armor comes from.

So what is it? Don't want to pay? Don't want to learn? Don't want to use any time at all? There's always gems to gold , that's what a lot of DRM CM buyers do.

Whats' the core problem? That people in openworld need a legendary armor set to beat the content or swap stats for some unknown reason when the content is stagnant? That's not a need.

 

What's the core problem?  The core problem is raids are terrible content and not everybody wants to play them, to lock the only pve legendary armor in the game behind this content and ONLY this content is abhorrent.

You have contributed nothing but vitriol and criticism to this threat, and thus are unworthy of my time, but I shall humor you this once.

 

WvW: the easy set takes 22 weeks of perfect pips to acquire enough currency to craft one suit, so 66 weeks to get everything.

PVP: I'm unsure, but I've seen people claim that they spent 300+ hours in ranked pvp for that, while I personally would rather teabag a belt sander than do that much spvp.

PvE (Raids): 6 weeks of max Legendary Inscriptions for the first set, 12 weeks for every set after that, for a total of 30 weeks for all 3 sets.  Not an unreasonable time frame, but an unreasonable requirement.  That's also not counting the collections.

 

Need:  Wtf are you talking about?  Open world players don't NEED legendary armor?  Neither do fractal players.  Neither do wvw players.  Neither do Raid players.  PvP players REALLY don't.  Statistically speaking legendary armor gives you zero benefits over ascended armor, it's all Quality of Life.  To lock such a major QOL thing behind such exclusionary content disgusts me.
Furthermore this is a game, we don't NEED anything, we don't NEED to play even, get the hell out of here with your concept of "need."

 

That's all that I have patience to address with you, now go sell raids to your walking credit cards and leave us the hell alone.

[Ayrilana.1396]

11 minutes ago, Endilbiach.4132 said:

WvW: the easy set takes 22 weeks of perfect pips to acquire enough currency to craft one suit, so 66 weeks to get everything.

 

PvE (Raids): 6 weeks of max Legendary Inscriptions for the first set, 12 weeks for every set after that, for a total of 30 weeks for all 3 sets.  Not an unreasonable time frame, but an unreasonable requirement.  That's also not counting the collections.

 

 

 

Convert the two above to hours like you did for sPvP otherwise it's misleading.

Edited July 20, 2021 by Ayrilana.1396

[MarkoGold.7126]

9 minutes ago, Endilbiach.4132 said:

 

What's the core problem?  The core problem is raids are terrible content and not everybody wants to play them, to lock the only pve legendary armor in the game behind this content and ONLY this content is abhorrent.

You have contributed nothing but vitriol and criticism to this threat, and thus are unworthy of my time, but I shall humor you this once.

 

WvW: the easy set takes 22 weeks of perfect pips to acquire enough currency to craft one suit, so 66 weeks to get everything.

PVP: I'm unsure, but I've seen people claim that they spent 300+ hours in ranked pvp for that, while I personally would rather teabag a belt sander than do that much spvp.

PvE (Raids): 6 weeks of max Legendary Inscriptions for the first set, 12 weeks for every set after that, for a total of 30 weeks for all 3 sets.  Not an unreasonable time frame, but an unreasonable requirement.  That's also not counting the collections.

 

Need:  Wtf are you talking about?  Open world players don't NEED legendary armor?  Neither do fractal players.  Neither do wvw players.  Neither do Raid players.  PvP players REALLY don't.  Statistically speaking legendary armor gives you zero benefits over ascended armor, it's all Quality of Life.  To lock such a major QOL thing behind such exclusionary content disgusts me.
Furthermore this is a game, we don't NEED anything, we don't NEED to play even, get the hell out of here with your concept of "need."

 

That's all that I have patience to address with you, now go sell raids to your walking credit cards and leave us the hell alone.

Dont listen to this guy hes just salty the game wont give him a free set of legendary armor for existing, effort and time invested what is that not something i care for. 

[Infusion.7149]

1 hour ago, Firebeard.1746 said:

He's actually still complaining about the same thing I'm telling you:

 

he's acknowledging almost all of his time would be spent in WvW for 22 weeks if he ground that hard and comparing how much variation in activities there are between PVP and WvW. So no, this is still the same thing. The time dedication is the issue, not the span. The span is an issue in that that's how long you're expected to dedicate your life to WvW if you want it ASAP.

You yourself posted here telling them to buy a raid clear earlier yet I linked you the exact post I got the quote from and I'm "pathologically dishonest" in your words...

If you get gold level skirmish rewards it's 40% of tickets. It's not much different than eschewing full clears for partial ones.

---

51 minutes ago, Endilbiach.4132 said:

 

What's the core problem?  The core problem is raids are terrible content and not everybody wants to play them, to lock the only pve legendary armor in the game behind this content and ONLY this content is abhorrent.

You have contributed nothing but vitriol and criticism to this threat, and thus are unworthy of my time, but I shall humor you this once.

 

WvW: the easy set takes 22 weeks of perfect pips to acquire enough currency to craft one suit, so 66 weeks to get everything.

PVP: I'm unsure, but I've seen people claim that they spent 300+ hours in ranked pvp for that, while I personally would rather teabag a belt sander than do that much spvp.

PvE (Raids): 6 weeks of max Legendary Inscriptions for the first set, 12 weeks for every set after that, for a total of 30 weeks for all 3 sets.  Not an unreasonable time frame, but an unreasonable requirement.  That's also not counting the collections.

 

Need:  Wtf are you talking about?  Open world players don't NEED legendary armor?  Neither do fractal players.  Neither do wvw players.  Neither do Raid players.  PvP players REALLY don't.  Statistically speaking legendary armor gives you zero benefits over ascended armor, it's all Quality of Life.  To lock such a major QOL thing behind such exclusionary content disgusts me.
Furthermore this is a game, we don't NEED anything, we don't NEED to play even, get the hell out of here with your concept of "need."

 

That's all that I have patience to address with you, now go sell raids to your walking credit cards and leave us the hell alone.

Right I'm the one spewing vitriol. Having a different opinion is not vitriol.

Also people are statistically unlikely to be full clearing  W5-7 if they've never raided before. 12 weeks is if you clear everything.

22 weeks is minimum so 40% of the max tickets (about gold tier) is ~55 weeks not 66.

Legendary items are QoL items, especially the WvW / PvP sets. They are a reward for dedication to the mode.

In addition, I don't sell raids so no idea what that is about.

Edited July 20, 2021 by Infusion.7149

[Linken.6345]

1 hour ago, Jilora.9524 said:

I wouldn't. In fact that sounds terrible. I'm like rank 4k so maybe add what rank you guys are with this idea. I can't imagine some of you play WvW at all with this thinking

I dident say it was a good idea maybe learn to read?

Im 700 btw.

I said if that was the only way to get pips and everyone could do it.

They would do it for rewards.

Kinda like you know anyone can open up a raid instance hence that comment about infinite eternal maps.

 

[Endilbiach.4132]

16 minutes ago, Ayrilana.1396 said:

 

Convert the two above to hours like you did for sPvP otherwise it's misleading.

 

Can't argue there, hang on.

 

Wvw: if you're getting 11 pips every single tick and you don't leave and thus do it perfectly with no added clusters of 4 minutes here and 2 minutes there and such, ergo the minimum (if you're bronze rank, outnumbered, and completed that track the previous week, ergo me in a perfect vacuum), then you need almost exactly 11 hours of nothing but wvw in outnumbered maps every week to get max.  Convert that into hours total and that's 242 hours of wvw over 22 weeks, where any extra in any given week doesn't count toward advancing your total.

 

Now, how long does it take to do all the raids each week?  It looks like a safe number is 4 hours.  30 weeks, 4 hours a week, that's 120 hours.  It's literally half the time in time spent raiding (with a very conservative estimate on time per week) for all 3 sets than it takes to do one set of wvw armor (with numbers based on an almost literally impossible set of parameters, which also requires you to be losing the entire time).  Admittedly in 8 more weeks, but point stands.

[Firebeard.1746]

11 minutes ago, Infusion.7149 said:

You yourself posted here telling them to buy a raid clear earlier yet I linked you the exact post I got the quote from and I'm "pathologically dishonest" in your words...

More contorting. I specifically said "if you're rich" and I specifically told him how to farm the LI himself and which bosses to do so he DIDN'T have to pay for all the LI himself and even gave tips on how to avoid paying as that's what makes it so expensive. There's a difference between telling someone to farm 1k gold for collections vs 30k for the whole thing. 1k is fairly easily doable, casually a little bit over time. Now you're sidestepping that you misread his post by attacking me with either another pathological dishonesty or another misreading of mine. whichever you're guilty of, take your pick.

And Honestly without you quoting his post in your original attack and having only read his OP (not all 10 pages) it's easy to see why I would think you're being honest. I don't even think it's on the 1st page (I skimmed before saying something). This is also why, in a 10 page discussion, it's good to do direct quotes when you're responding to someone instead of summarizing them in a way to make yourself look right/smarter/better than them. maybe even reread them in case you misunderstood the first time.

Quote

If you get gold level skirmish rewards it's 40% of tickets. It's not much different than eschewing full clears for partial ones.

With still a magnitude in difference in terms of time spent depending on how you do it. Other game modes don't offer this freedom. heck I'm in an organized group of 10+ people often in WvW, why don't I get some special payoff if we all get good together too, just like raiders do? I'm usually only pugging in WvW to finish a given chest.

Edited July 20, 2021 by Firebeard.1746

[Infusion.7149]

6 minutes ago, Firebeard.1746 said:

More contorting. I specifically said "if you're rich" and I specifically told him how to farm the LI himself and which bosses to do so he DIDN'T have to pay for all the LI himself and even gave tips on how to avoid paying as that's what makes it so expensive. There's a difference between telling someone to farm 1k gold for collections vs 30k for the whole thing. 1k is fairly easily doable, casually a little bit over time. Now you're sidestepping that you misread his post by attacking me with either another pathological dishonesty or another misreading of mine. whichever you're guilty of, take your pick.

And Honestly without you quoting his post in your original attack and having only read his OP (not all 10 pages) it's easy to see why I would think you're being honest. I don't even think it's on the 1st page (I skimmed before saying something). This is also why, in a 10 page discussion, it's good to do direct quotes when you're responding to someone instead of summarizing them in a way to make yourself look right/smarter/better than them. maybe even reread them in case you misunderstood the first time.

With still a magnitude in difference in terms of time spent depending on how you do it. Other game modes don't offer this freedom.

A partial clear or not finishing PVP league track is the same thing.

edit: Also I don't understand why this kind of rhetoric (because that's what it is) on your part is necessary to get your point across. Everything I have written is just pointing out the flaws in the argument for it, yet you won't even admit you are wrong and say sorry for personally attacking me. Okay.

Exactly the same thing as last week when you accused me of not having done WvW legendary armor. Verbatim.

Edited July 20, 2021 by Infusion.7149

[ArchonWing.9480]

1 hour ago, Endilbiach.4132 said:

 

 

 

Need:  Wtf are you talking about?  Open world players don't NEED legendary armor?  Neither do fractal players.  Neither do wvw players.  Neither do Raid players.  PvP players REALLY don't.  Statistically speaking legendary armor gives you zero benefits over ascended armor, it's all Quality of Life.  To lock such a major QOL thing behind such exclusionary content disgusts me.
Furthermore this is a game, we don't NEED anything, we don't NEED to play even, get the hell out of here with your concept of "need."

 

That's all that I have patience to address with you, now go sell raids to your walking credit cards and leave us the hell alone.

 

Not "need", but there's a lot of value.

 

Raids have drastically different encounters, so stat swapping is incredibly useful.  WvW probably uses the most stats of all game modes. Less so for fractals, but they're also the only content that requires its own set of infuisions so legendaries are very handy there.

 

There are many, many raiders that carry multiple sets of armors (or did). If you've seen anyone do fractal videos you might see an entire inventory filled with weapons.

 

Now let's be honest here. How often do you swap stats and runes/sigils in open world? And what are those stats? Please do tell; I'd like a good laugh.

Edited July 20, 2021 by ArchonWing.9480