Virtuoso Feedback Thread [Merged]

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

1 hour ago, Axl.8924 said:

Did you see moves on hammer ele ? its really bad.

Did you saw moves on dagger virt?

[Axl.8924]

4 hours ago, Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

Did you saw moves on dagger virt?

Sure i did i played virtuoso and tested it. Virtuoso was literally first one i tested then willbender then finally last one was the new nec spec. Out of all 3, the best was def necro with virtuoso and willbender having issues but its salvageable.

 

I-m not even sure what they can do about catalyst.

 

Virtuoso arguably has issues with mobility ability to generate but what does catalyst have? it seems as if it wants to compete with weaver or tempest it s just a weird thing.

I could at least see virtuoso succeeding as maybe A full dps  maybe replacing chrono and keeping chrono as power and or possibly support or at least i hope there is some niche that virtuoso can fit that other specs don't because i legit like it. In my opinion like habringer it should be top dps for how glassy it is. Maybe if needed if it could get overhaul on some stuff i predict it being a solid top end raid spec.

Edited October 6, 2021 by Axl.8924

[Mik.3401]

5 minutes ago, Axl.8924 said:

Sure i did i played virtuoso and tested it. Virtuoso was literally first one i tested then willbender then finally last one was the new nec spec. Out of all 3, the best was def necro with virtuoso and willbender having issues but its salvageable.

 

I-m not even sure what they can do about catalyst.

 

Virtuoso arguably has issues with mobility ability to generate but what does catalyst have? it seems as if it wants to compete with weaver or tempest it s just a weird thing.

I could at least see virtuoso succeeding as maybe A full dps  maybe replacing chrono and keeping chrono as power and or possibly support or at least i hope there is some niche that virtuoso can fit that other specs don't because i legit like it. In my opinion like habringer it should be top dps for how glassy it is. Maybe if needed if it could get overhaul on some stuff i predict it being a solid top end raid spec.

I agree the new specs just cannot compete with the current ones and I think it applies to practically all of them.

That being said I don’t see virtuoso outperforming chrono as dps unless they bloat the shatter numbers to the point of ridicule which I don’t think would happen. I think all Mesmers have mobility issues maybe apart from mirage to a lesser extent so virtuoso is not any different

[Axl.8924]

49 minutes ago, Mik.3401 said:

I agree the new specs just cannot compete with the current ones and I think it applies to practically all of them.

That being said I don’t see virtuoso outperforming chrono as dps unless they bloat the shatter numbers to the point of ridicule which I don’t think would happen. I think all Mesmers have mobility issues maybe apart from mirage to a lesser extent so virtuoso is not any different

I dunno harbinger might its solid and got pretty high dps and one of the more solid of the classes that came out from the 3rd era of elites

[Mik.3401]

17 minutes ago, Axl.8924 said:

I dunno harbinger might its solid and got pretty high dps and one of the more solid of the classes that came out from the 3rd era of elites

That’s because necro core lines are broken, anything paired with them is op

[Axl.8924]

32 minutes ago, Mik.3401 said:

That’s because necro core lines are broken, anything paired with them is op

I think some lines are better than others for some classes the deletion of some lines for mes makes me not happy.I can-t really speak clearly about that as i'm no master and some stuff was changed. I'm not particularly happy with chrono power because it feels like i'm really delayed in doing dps burst, but maybe i'm looking at it the wrong way. I think the problems virtuoso has is different than the ones chrono. I was using sword x Gs. sword sword gs or something has mixture of stuff that is solid at least the weapon itself of virtuoso of dagger dagger has some ok moves but lacks of sustain moves and mobility, so i think dagger dagger could use some overhauls and maybe it can be a monster shatter, or maybe my like for shatters is my bias i dunno.

Personally instead of nerfing nec in pve (nerfing in pvp is fine) i'd buff and or fix mes which is unacceptable to have something not working properly. i'd do same if needed for each and every class, especially since those lines are the lay lines of build and without it future elites could end up being busted. Its because they are solid we see use, so long as we don't end up buffing dps to ridiculous levels and create a ridiculous power creep.

Anet fixed some ele lines like for instance water has damage lines for dps allowing for more versatility towards a hybrid. 

 

Edited October 6, 2021 by Axl.8924

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

4 hours ago, Axl.8924 said:

Sure i did i played virtuoso and tested it. Virtuoso was literally first one i tested then willbender then finally last one was the new nec spec. Out of all 3, the best was def necro with virtuoso and willbender having issues but its salvageable.

 

I-m not even sure what they can do about catalyst.

 

Virtuoso arguably has issues with mobility ability to generate but what does catalyst have? it seems as if it wants to compete with weaver or tempest it s just a weird thing.

I could at least see virtuoso succeeding as maybe A full dps  maybe replacing chrono and keeping chrono as power and or possibly support or at least i hope there is some niche that virtuoso can fit that other specs don't because i legit like it. In my opinion like habringer it should be top dps for how glassy it is. Maybe if needed if it could get overhaul on some stuff i predict it being a solid top end raid spec.

It is not salvageable because it has no identity whatsoever, it's just core mesmer minus the QoL of shatters, clones and IP.
It tries to be a ranged damage dealer and fails at it because you can't play ranged without clones since all ranged weapons suck kitten at range without clones, the new shatters are garbage, it has 0 mobility and 0 cc so you can't keep people at range.
It's an absolute kitten of a spec.

But lets get into it again.
Dagger is beyond awful, all it does is damage and the damage it deals is low, and it's super slow to boot up.
The skill 2 is a kittening nonsense and whoever design that kitten should have a pinetree grow from his kitten, a ranged attack that should be hit at PB and looking down for maximum effect....

F1 is slow, deals between 5k and 12k with 5 blades, which is equivalent to 1 or less than 3 clones (no IP), it can be sidestepped and blades fly ones behind the others so you'll always avoid getting hit by 5 at range. Mesmers have developed tactics to get all clones to shatter at the same time to maximize the burst and ANerf came up with kitten like this?
F2 has a cool animation and the damage isn't that bad, but it has a kittening condition there, what this kitten is supposed to be power damage elite?
F3 is utter nonsense trash, F3 serves as a setup for F1 and/or interrupt. You can't setup anymore because no IP, and the cast time is just too long to rupt anything.
F4 block is disconnected from the damage and will induce you in error, plus it'll reveal you if you need to do some defense while in stealth.

Plus F1 to F3 lost the aoe aspect, and are now single target, are refleactable and take a similar time to reach target as clones did.

No IP means no dry shatters either for offense or defense.

Clones defense are gone, so you'll be focused 100% of the time, and the sustain isn't higher to compensate for this.

The fact that you're required to get 5 blade to do anything close to good damage and you've to spec 2 traitlines to get that blade generation means you're sacrificing something which you don't on core/chrono/mirage.

Utilities are trash, all of them except for blade renewal.
Elite is the worst elite on game and you can't hit a kittening dolyak with it even if your life depends on it.
Heal is badly design.

As said above, mobility and cc are non existent.
Boons are nowhere to be found.

And again the concept is all over the place and makes no sense, as I said somewhere else, a knife shitting psionic musician.

So please do tell me what's good about this and where it is salvageable.

 

Edited October 6, 2021 by Lincolnbeard.1735

[Salt Mode.3780]

I don't get how this became a thread for Ele mains to complain...or other e-specs for that matter. I guess Virtuoso design is lacking so much identity that it can just be disregarded. I think people are so kitten confused on Mesmer mains thinking losing clones is why we hate this E-Spec. I can assure you many Mesmer players out there is happy there is a cloneless spec, however what it lacks is the proper tools to be cloneless.

Concept of cloneless is good, the execution of how its done is horrendous. From all the E-Specs that have issues right now I am very well sure that Virtuoso is going to stay the same with some slight LoS fixes here and there, maybe add on some ICD on traits like the aegis on shatter.

People hoping that the devs will do something...well hate to tell y'all but based on CMC past nothing has been promising so far. Ignorance is really a bliss.

Edited October 6, 2021 by Salt Mode.3780

[Axl.8924]

49 minutes ago, Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

It is not salvageable because it has no identity whatsoever, it's just core mesmer minus the QoL of shatters, clones and IP.
It tries to be a ranged damage dealer and fails at it because you can't play ranged without clones since all ranged weapons suck kitten at range without clones, the new shatters are garbage, it has 0 mobility and 0 cc so you can't keep people at range.
It's an absolute kitten of a spec.

But lets get into it again.
Dagger is beyond awful, all it does is damage and the damage it deals is low, and it's super slow to boot up.
The skill 2 is a kittening nonsense and whoever design that kitten should have a pinetree grow from his kitten, a ranged attack that should be hit at PB and looking down for maximum effect....

F1 is slow, deals between 5k and 12k with 5 blades, which is equivalent to 1 or less than 3 clones (no IP), it can be sidestepped and blades fly ones behind the others so you'll always avoid getting hit by 5 at range. Mesmers have developed tactics to get all clones to shatter at the same time to maximize the burst and ANerf came up with kitten like this?
F2 has a cool animation and the damage isn't that bad, but it has a kittening condition there, what this kitten is supposed to be power damage elite?
F3 is utter nonsense trash, F3 serves as a setup for F1 and/or interrupt. You can't setup anymore because no IP, and the cast time is just too long to rupt anything.
F4 block is disconnected from the damage and will induce you in error, plus it'll reveal you if you need to do some defense while in stealth.

Plus F1 to F3 lost the aoe aspect, and are now single target, are refleactable and take a similar time to reach target as clones did.

No IP means no dry shatters either for offense or defense.

Clones defense are gone, so you'll be focused 100% of the time, and the sustain isn't higher to compensate for this.

The fact that you're required to get 5 blade to do anything close to good damage and you've to spec 2 traitlines to get that blade generation means you're sacrificing something which you don't on core/chrono/mirage.

Utilities are trash, all of them except for blade renewal.
Elite is the worst elite on game and you can't hit a kittening dolyak with it even if your life depends on it.
Heal is badly design.

As said above, mobility and cc are non existent.
Boons are nowhere to be found.

And again the concept is all over the place and makes no sense, as I said somewhere else, a knife shitting psionic musician.

So please do tell me what's good about this and where it is salvageable.

 

 

in my opinion it seems to want to be ranged dps but like i said in my post when testing it needed a lot of work and had lots of issues. It has been a while since i last played weeks and i might have forgotten initial stuff since i think i criticized it heavily on how trash it was compared to chrono and i remember being disappointed.

I think i complained about the elite being on such a long cd for being a dps ability and the shatters too.

Edited October 6, 2021 by Axl.8924

[Leonidrex.5649]

21 hours ago, Axl.8924 said:

 

in my opinion it seems to want to be ranged dps but like i said in my post when testing it needed a lot of work and had lots of issues. It has been a while since i last played weeks and i might have forgotten initial stuff since i think i criticized it heavily on how trash it was compared to chrono and i remember being disappointed.

I think i complained about the elite being on such a long cd for being a dps ability and the shatters too.

how can you say it " wants to be a ranged dps "
and then they give us trait that forces us into melee along with a " ranged " weapon that forces us into melee
along with all other " ranged " mesmer weapons forcing us into melee.
 

[Axl.8924]

1 minute ago, Leonidrex.5649 said:

how can you say it " wants to be a ranged dps "
and then they give us trait that forces us into melee along with a " ranged " weapon that forces us into melee
along with all other " ranged " mesmer weapons forcing us into melee.
 

 

It has mid ranged attack on daggers and it has ability to shatter, its just highly flawed.

[mortrialus.3062]

On 10/6/2021 at 3:23 AM, Mik.3401 said:

unfortunately this design failure of a spec is here to stay I suppose. Few random adjustments I’d propose to save this dying patient are:
 

 

- bring back distortion on F4, make it 2s (virt is so clunky, 2s is ok instead of 1s I think) and get rid of the 3s distortion utility. It could be like the current F4 block along with loading all blades. So mix & swap these two skills kind of

- make F1 and F2 have 1/4s cast times working without target too,

- give ability to shatter sideways (maybe also to the back? Kind of unsure of it now)

- rework blade song effects: add some other conditions as maybe:

+Weakness on top of confusion on F2

+Fear/Taunt on F3 instead of daze

just make it feel psionic!

 

- record some musical effects for bladesongs, you spend time re-recording guardian skills you surely have time for that

- decrease dagger range to 900 and make it attack faster, add bleed to auto to synergize with the bleeding trait (which needs to have bleeding increased from 1s to like 2,5s btw)

- if you want to keep dagger 3 slow and clunky it is fine but add something rewarding to incentivise using it - maybe chill or 1s fear?

- give more condis to utilities, they all seem to be just Dps without any substance

- trash the elite skill altogether it is just bad

 

The dps of this spec as it stands is bit low but I think it would be ok to leave base power numbers as they are, GIVEN they invest in giving it more crowd control ability. I think effects like fear perfectly match a psionic mage. Capitalising in it could create a noce interesting spec. Because for now it is all we have already, just worse.

Fear on F3 would actually have been cool.

[Axl.8924]

I wonder what they plan to do to make virtuoso viable such as fixing the f buttons or improve mobility maybe more blinks? Maybe improve shatters lowering cd for the damage and maybe increase damage of shatters?

Edited October 12, 2021 by Axl.8924

[Tseison.4659]

34 minutes ago, Axl.8924 said:

I wonder what they plan to do to make virtuoso viable such as fixing the f buttons or improve mobility maybe more blinks? Maybe improve shatters lowering cd for the damage and maybe increase damage of shatters?

I mean from what myself and others have given feedback for, the most they could and SHOULD probably change for the Virtuoso could be: 

Swapping Blade Renewal with F4 and then if the Bladeturn Requiem was made into a utility it can be a 2s and 2 charges block. 
Sword of Decimation AND Rain of Swords are essentially the same and might as well be combined. Then with this, they can create a new utility that can be some form of mobility or even a hard CC skill.

Because the Virtuoso is so focused on Blades/Bladesongs, they might as well give F1 & F2 a number of charges or no cooldown at all.

Since condition builds aren’t great on this elite, I see no point in having a trait line for it and nor do I see the point of yet again having the SAME F2 confusion, much less the SAME F1-F3 across all other elite specs.

I’m sure dagger will be tweaked and perhaps have something added to Dagger#2 or #3. 
Then lastly, the ultimate I find is literally the same as Rain of Swords but just cast horizontally. It’s clunky, buggy, super easy to side step and the damage is crap. If Anet wanted to keep it then the most I see them doing is increasing the skills width, range and damage, though I prefer getting a whole new elite in general.

[Axl.8924]

2 hours ago, Tseison.4659 said:

I mean from what myself and others have given feedback for, the most they could and SHOULD probably change for the Virtuoso could be: 

Swapping Blade Renewal with F4 and then if the Bladeturn Requiem was made into a utility it can be a 2s and 2 charges block. 
Sword of Decimation AND Rain of Swords are essentially the same and might as well be combined. Then with this, they can create a new utility that can be some form of mobility or even a hard CC skill.

Because the Virtuoso is so focused on Blades/Bladesongs, they might as well give F1 & F2 a number of charges or no cooldown at all.

Since condition builds aren’t great on this elite, I see no point in having a trait line for it and nor do I see the point of yet again having the SAME F2 confusion, much less the SAME F1-F3 across all other elite specs.

I’m sure dagger will be tweaked and perhaps have something added to Dagger#2 or #3. 
Then lastly, the ultimate I find is literally the same as Rain of Swords but just cast horizontally. It’s clunky, buggy, super easy to side step and the damage is crap. If Anet wanted to keep it then the most I see them doing is increasing the skills width, range and damage, though I prefer getting a whole new elite in general.

Wait i don't remember any condi on virtuoso maybe i'm missremembering since last time i played was when it was still beta was there something to do? i think maybe bleed or something? can't remember

 

 

[Tseison.4659]

1 hour ago, Axl.8924 said:

Wait i don't remember any condi on virtuoso maybe i'm missremembering since last time i played was when it was still beta was there something to do? i think maybe bleed or something? can't remember

 

 

Yeah it’s just the bleed condition and then the confusion from F2. You CAN opt for the torment when using the Bladesongs down the illusion treeline but like I said, Virtuoso wasn’t made to run condition and bleed is a bad condition to begin with even with the 25% increase. It’ll slip right off with the amount of cleanses that are out there anyways.

[Axl.8924]

Obviously i'm not very good but what kind of numbers were you guys able to get on golem? just to get a better idea difference between tier 3.

[Captain Wasabi.4167]

Bear in mind I don't play mesmer

 

Very pretty animations. However the whole thing felt like it did not require any thought and you could just button mash and destroy everything in your path..  It was fun but lacked any depth

[Walle.6045]

Was the sound of the daggers attack ever mentioned? 
Unsure if others care, but it was like this pong-ish sound I found it very annoying and out of place. 

[Logos.3042]

Just wanted to add my 2cents.  

 

This spec, Virtuoso, just seems to be lacking so much flavor.  It feels really bland and like it has no themes anything like Chrono or Mirage which were both masterfully done, imo.

 

Also, the forums have been asking for a MH pistol forever!  Why didnt they at least give the masses MH pistol?  To be fair they missed the mark on so many of the profesions just like Virtuoso, but still, what huge miss, imo.  

[Tseison.4659]

Hey everyone, just in the Guild Chat - Elite Specialization Beta 3 Preview right now. I Posted a comment stating the following: 

Quote

@Guild Wars 2 Can you guys please read the feedback on official forums for the Virtuoso. Lots of tweaks/changes need to be made for it.

and they replied with:

Quote

“We do read forum feedback and also look at feedback after the Betas. In fact we'll probably talk about some of the small changes we're making to the Elite Specialization based on the feedback.”

so yeah...here's hoping they mention something good in this stream or some time soon.🤞

Edited October 22, 2021 by Tseison.4659

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

1 hour ago, Tseison.4659 said:

Hey everyone, just in the Guild Chat - Elite Specialization Beta 3 Preview right now. I Posted a comment stating the following: 

and they replied with:

so yeah...here's hoping they mention something good in this stream or some time soon.🤞

"Small changes".

[Ombras.2853]

I mean, the fact they acknowledged it is already significant

[Tseison.4659]

3 hours ago, Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

"Small changes".

Lol trust me, I rolled my eyes when they replied because we know kitten well what "small changes" mean.

[Levetty.1279]

6 minutes ago, Tseison.4659 said:

Lol trust me, I rolled my eyes when they replied because we know kitten well what "small changes" mean.

Virtuoso F2 now also applies 1 second of bleed pls understand.

Edited October 22, 2021 by Levetty.1279