Virtuoso Feedback Thread [Merged]

[Tseison.4659]

Just now, Levetty.1279 said:

Virtuoso F2 now also applies 1 second of bleed pls understand.

Lol cuz you know, Virtuoso is viable when running a condition build 🙄😒 that bottom line can be thrown out the window, give me something else that pertains to: boons, cc, more damage, boon removal, stock a blade or heck, remove the cooldown for F1-3.

[mortrialus.3062]

On 10/22/2021 at 1:59 PM, Tseison.4659 said:

Hey everyone, just in the Guild Chat - Elite Specialization Beta 3 Preview right now. I Posted a comment stating the following: 

and they replied with:

so yeah...here's hoping they mention something good in this stream or some time soon.🤞

Small changes, but probably not the complete rework of things like the Virtuoso F3 which has absolutely no redeeming value over the core F3 or dagger not having any of the tools needed as a ranged weapon, or like all the things that need to be done to get Willbender or Catalyst in good condition.

[Tseison.4659]

8 hours ago, mortrialus.3062 said:

Small changes, but probably not the complete rework of things like the Virtuoso F3 which has absolutely no redeeming value over the core F3 or dagger not having any of the tools needed as a ranged weapon, or like all the things that need to be done to get Willbender or Catalyst in good condition.

Yeah I was thinking the same too….all I have to say is that they have ALOT of work to do before the release.

[Artyport.2084]

On 10/24/2021 at 1:30 AM, mortrialus.3062 said:

Small changes, but probably not the complete rework of things like the Virtuoso F3 which has absolutely no redeeming value over the core F3 or dagger not having any of the tools needed as a ranged weapon, or like all the things that need to be done to get Willbender or Catalyst in good condition.

Actually a small tweak could mean the F3 could do a knock back now that would be bomb 

[Caid.4932]

I'd drop the condi traits. Make F2 a ground targeted, non-reflectable power attack, make F3 an aoe around your character closer to a traditional shatter. Drop projectile from Dagger #1 and #3. Make #3 move faster. Change #2 so it does max damage if any blades hit enemy, leave it as a 2 part attack so the return has to hit too, it should be a lot easier to make use of. Make elite a larger area, i'd probably drop the reflect again. Lower cooldown on utilities and make the heal stronger and less situational - attacks should be small bonus on top of decent heal.

It would still need a bit more in terms of survivability in my view at that point but them changes aren't crazy and would go a long way and leave it in a solid position to build on with a bit of numbers tuning.

[Zenith.7301]

11 hours ago, Artyport.2084 said:

Actually a small tweak could mean the F3 could do a knock back now that would be bomb 

Yeah, no thanks. Don't need to ruin the skill for PvE, much rather have a knowdown or float effect.

Edited October 25, 2021 by Zenith.7301

[Salt Mode.3780]

2 hours ago, Zenith.7301 said:

Yeah, no thanks. Don't need to ruin the skill for PvE, much rather have a knowdown or float effect.

PvE and PvP skills can always split or have people forgotten that is a thing.

[Zenith.7301]

11 minutes ago, Salt Mode.3780 said:

PvE and PvP skills can always split or have people forgotten that is a thing.

 

 

The only thing they ever consistently split is the damage. They extremely rarely split function.

[SundayBlues.1596]

Hey, here's some ideas i had for the Virtuoso traitline. Not sure if it's too late to suggest stuff but better late than never i guess.

https://imgur.com/gallery/RNe6phA

Changes are mostly: removing condition line (redundant with mirage existing), define the power line, more utility, focus on a dueling concept.

[Levetty.1279]

59 minutes ago, SundayBlues.1596 said:

Hey, here's some ideas i had for the Virtuoso traitline. Not sure if it's too late to suggest stuff but better late than never i guess.

https://imgur.com/gallery/RNe6phA

Changes are mostly: removing condition line (redundant with mirage existing), define the power line, more utility, focus on a dueling concept.

Really good ideas.

[Zenith.7301]

Virtuoso:

1- A single mainhand weapon with only 3 new skills. All of them just do damage, nothing else.

2- Shatters do the same thing, except to a single target only in exchange for not dealing with the core flaws of clone ramp up and despawn on target death.

3- One utility skill that is an elementalist mist form equivalent, rest are aoe nukes, one does more damage to rooted targets while the other one applies vulnerability that will be capped anyways in raids, so wasted.

4- An undertuned elite.

 

Specter:

1- 5 actual new weapon skills. different utility+damage wells that are also a blink and buff allies.

2- Steal effect still in place, applies slow uptime better than baseline chronomancer despite slow being the iconic chronomancer exclusive condition.

3- Specter shroud with another 5 new skills.

 

And somehow Anet deems this a comparable investment of design resources....

[Tseison.4659]

11 hours ago, SundayBlues.1596 said:

Hey, here's some ideas i had for the Virtuoso traitline. Not sure if it's too late to suggest stuff but better late than never i guess.

https://imgur.com/gallery/RNe6phA

Changes are mostly: removing condition line (redundant with mirage existing), define the power line, more utility, focus on a dueling concept.

Great ideas and it’s looking a lot better ☺️ I’m gonna piggyback off these and say that I do love the traits that constantly stock us blades since Virtuoso relies very heavily on it. However, there’s maybe 2-3 that I think can be made into something else. The Bloodsong I would probably turn it into something where Psionics have reduced cooldown or something that causes us to cleanse conditions per interval based on the amount of blades we have stocked. Conditions removed ranged from 1-3. Was gonna say 1-5 conditions but think it might be too strong. 
 

Love the new jagged mind. I think the only thing I would add/tweak is that special ferocity buff we get when activating a bladesong, I would probably double the effect since the duration is short anyways. 

For one of the GMs I would add so that F1-F3 gain an additional charge or 2 since our kit relies heavily on using them, especially F1.

 

Then lastly, I don’t think the Transfer condition GM trait is really necessary. I would probably add something along the lines of: removing the cooldown for F1 (or F1-F3) and every set interval the next Bladesong is free to use.

 

other than that, looks good, thanks for putting in the time to make this!

[phokus.8934]

12 hours ago, SundayBlues.1596 said:

Hey, here's some ideas i had for the Virtuoso traitline. Not sure if it's too late to suggest stuff but better late than never i guess.

https://imgur.com/gallery/RNe6phA

Changes are mostly: removing condition line (redundant with mirage existing), define the power line, more utility, focus on a dueling concept.

I’d still like to see unblockable conditions either on abilities or within traits.  For example, Revenant Phase Traversal applies a buff that makes attacks unblockable.

[Tseison.4659]

19 minutes ago, phokus.8934 said:

I’d still like to see unblockable conditions either on abilities or within traits.  For example, Revenant Phase Traversal applies a buff that makes attacks unblockable.

I agree, I still think bladesongs should be unblockable overall or have an effect where when at full stacks, bladesongs become unblockable.

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

I mean even woodenpotatoes says virtuoso design and concept is bad, D tier and the worst of the 9...

[Infusion.7149]

1 hour ago, Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

I mean even woodenpotatoes says virtuoso design and concept is bad, D tier and the worst of the 9...

I see you missed Catalyst.

Edited October 28, 2021 by Infusion.7149

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

Just now, Infusion.7149 said:

I see you missed Catalyst.

Actually woodenpotatoes put Catalyst on C tier and Virtuoso on D tier, so no, I didn't miss it. 

[Infusion.7149]

Just now, Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

Actually woodenpotatoes put Catalyst on C tier and Virtuoso on D tier, so no, I didn't miss it. 

I don't think that is an accurate assessment then.

[Levetty.1279]

14 minutes ago, Infusion.7149 said:

I see you missed Catalyst.

"Oh no the ranged weapon I kept demanding doesn't do as much damage as melee in a game where this has been the case for 9 years. The entire class is ruined."

[Flow.2947]

after playing the last 3 specs I'm worried about Virtuoso. I love the blade mechanics I really do! But omg there are soo many, projectile blocks out there now (war: bulletproove barrier, ranger: pet F3, engi: signet) and if it's not something to block, then everyone else has so much mobility/shaddowsteps to en/disgage.

I'm not a fan of unblockable skills because it removes the "counterplay" that I love so much about this game. How about if a blade reflected and/or destroyed parts of it fell to the ground instead,  Giving a boon ... or crippling/bleed ... or dmg... when you run over it. That would be less harmful to the game then being unblockable.

 

[Monarc.9726]

5 hours ago, Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

I mean even woodenpotatoes says virtuoso design and concept is bad, D tier and the worst of the 9...

Willbender is far worse off than Virtuoso imo, I mean it’s better to play it w/o traits selected and w/o the worthless OH sword it brings, but the fact that we need to debate which spec is worse off is a bad sign…

[SundayBlues.1596]

8 hours ago, Tseison.4659 said:

Great ideas and it’s looking a lot better ☺️ I’m gonna piggyback off these and say that I do love the traits that constantly stock us blades since Virtuoso relies very heavily on it. However, there’s maybe 2-3 that I think can be made into something else. The Bloodsong I would probably turn it into something where Psionics have reduced cooldown or something that causes us to cleanse conditions per interval based on the amount of blades we have stocked. Conditions removed ranged from 1-3. Was gonna say 1-5 conditions but think it might be too strong. 
 

Love the new jagged mind. I think the only thing I would add/tweak is that special ferocity buff we get when activating a bladesong, I would probably double the effect since the duration is short anyways. 

For one of the GMs I would add so that F1-F3 gain an additional charge or 2 since our kit relies heavily on using them, especially F1.

 

Then lastly, I don’t think the Transfer condition GM trait is really necessary. I would probably add something along the lines of: removing the cooldown for F1 (or F1-F3) and every set interval the next Bladesong is free to use.

 

other than that, looks good, thanks for putting in the time to make this!

Thank you for the feedback! yeah now looking at some of these i see they don't seem too good (for the more defensive/sustainy ones i was thinking about competitive but i dont really play those modes so... yeah lol) My main goal (for pve at least) was to change a bit the rotation so it wouldn't be the same as power chrono minus what makes chrono interesting (cs).

I had a different concept for a virtuoso makeover (too late for that now i guess haha) that revolved around giving bladesongs an after-attack, that can be used while the bladesong is on cd. The idea was that the first target hit by the bladesong would get targeted (maybe with a purple dagger over their head?) and the effect of that after attack would happen around that target, to make it so that the enemy would be dangerous for their own allies, which is a concept i think would've worked well with this spec. 

But yeah, thank you for the feedback again!

[aspirine.6852]

I dont even understand what this spec is supposed to be?

[mortrialus.3062]

On 10/28/2021 at 2:15 PM, Monarc.9726 said:

Willbender is far worse off than Virtuoso imo, I mean it’s better to play it w/o traits selected and w/o the worthless OH sword it brings, but the fact that we need to debate which spec is worse off is a bad sign…

The idea of a guardian who has become a sort of imperial guard for the emperor and will brutally cut down threats to the throne is a far more complete theme and idea for a spec than Virtuoso.  Balance and things can change, the fundamental design and theme of the spec is there forever. 

Catalyst is the worst spec in terms of the fundamental idea and theme of the spec for sure.  Virtuoso is the runner up. 

[Monarc.9726]

27 minutes ago, mortrialus.3062 said:

The idea of a guardian who has become a sort of imperial guard for the emperor and will brutally cut down threats to the throne is a far more complete theme and idea for a spec than Virtuoso.  Balance and things can change, the fundamental design and theme of the spec is there forever. 

Catalyst is the worst spec in terms of the fundamental idea and theme of the spec for sure.  Virtuoso is the runner up. 

Just mentioning the concept of a spec that has nothing to do with the skills, trait lines, actual gameplay, etc., doesn’t mean a spec is working well or living up to the description.

Edited October 30, 2021 by Monarc.9726