Swimsuits; The Gold Standard [Merged]

[Ashen.2907]

On 10/20/2022 at 1:05 PM, Gryphon.2875 said:

Bottom line: Will people spend real money on swimsuit skins? Yes.

It's a business. That's all that really matters.

Not exactly.

First it isnt just about getting someone to spend money on a product, its about having enough spent to make a profit. If you sell a product that generates $1,000 in revenue but costs $2,000 to produce...well people spent money on it....right?

Second is the fact that it needs to not only make a profit but make more of a profit than whatever else those development resources could have generated if used elsewhere. If you are running a business and have to choose between making swimsuits that will make you $100 in profit and making t-shirts that will make you $1000 in profit you would be, as a business, making a mistake to spend your limited resources on swimsuit production.

There is MUCH more to a business decision than, "will people buy it?" I personally would love to buy a Ferrari for $10. That doesn't mean that selling me a supercar at that price would be a good decision for the manufacturer.

[Labjax.2465]

31 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

As long as it comes from changing tents within the relevant areas like it was said above.

I'm no seer, but I think it's a safe bet that's never going to happen. Even town clothes in their original form were an "out of combat" limitation and they got rid of that and turned them into outfits in, like, 2014. If they did decide to implement swimsuits, they would be shooting themselves in the foot in terms of profit to make it limited to designated areas hidden behind a changing tent mechanic when all other outfits don't work like that. And they would be creating a massive amount of confusion for players who think they are getting one type of appearance option and getting something else.

Then again, this is the same company that added over-monetized character-bound build and gear templates so maybe I'm being naive.

[Ashen.2907]

Just now, Labjax.2465 said:

I'm no seer, but I think it's a safe bet that's never going to happen. Even town clothes in their original form were an "out of combat" limitation and they got rid of that and turned them into outfits in, like, 2014. If they did decide to implement swimsuits, they would be shooting themselves in the foot in terms of profit to make it limited to designated areas hidden behind a changing tent mechanic when all other outfits don't work like that. And they would be creating a massive amount of confusion for players who think they are getting one type of appearance option and getting something else.

Then again, this is the same company that added over-monetized character-bound build and gear templates so maybe I'm being naive.

Pretty much this.

Adding swimsuits to the game would cost development resources/money. If money is being spent to add something then it seems VERY unlikely to be done in a manner that limits its ability to generate revenue and profit. I can see both sides of this discussion, but only one of them seems likely to even have a chance to generate a profit. If ANet decides to add swimsuits I would be shocked if it took the form of expanding the changing tent system.

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

56 minutes ago, Ashen.2907 said:

Not exactly.

First it isnt just about getting someone to spend money on a product, its about having enough spent to make a profit. If you sell a product that generates $1,000 in revenue but costs $2,000 to produce...well people spent money on it....right?

Second is the fact that it needs to not only make a profit but make more of a profit than whatever else those development resources could have generated if used elsewhere. If you are running a business and have to choose between making swimsuits that will make you $100 in profit and making t-shirts that will make you $1000 in profit you would be, as a business, making a mistake to spend your limited resources on swimsuit production.

There is MUCH more to a business decision than, "will people buy it?" I personally would love to buy a Ferrari for $10. That doesn't mean that selling me a supercar at that price would be a good decision for the manufacturer.

They've already been made, and are already in game.  The cost of the work was low enough to give them to a bunch of NPCs, which showed no direct profit at all, then the cost of giving those same items to the players is definitely profitable.  

[Zebulous.2934]

1 hour ago, Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

They've already been made, and are already in game.  The cost of the work was low enough to give them to a bunch of NPCs, which showed no direct profit at all, then the cost of giving those same items to the players is definitely profitable.  

Getting the npc swimsuits as they appear to be currently could be cheap, but I am not sure the devs want to exercise that kind of restraint.

I dread the idea of towels wrapped around waists, cut off shirts over swimsuit tops, or some watery form of the zodiac or starborn "skin."  
I truly want simple looking, dyeable, swimsuits. 
 

 

 

[Zebulous.2934]

I am not sure how I would feel about them releasing each of the racial underwears as dyeable outfits or dyeable armor parts. 
I don't care for the lace pattern on the human female underwear.  The sylvari underwear also looks odd for swimming in.

[Gibson.4036]

If the maid outfits are as successful as they appear, I can’t see ANet losing money on swimsuits.

[Gibson.4036]

7 hours ago, Zebulous.2934 said:

I am not sure how I would feel about them releasing each of the racial underwears as dyeable outfits or dyeable armor parts. 
I don't care for the lace pattern on the human female underwear.  The sylvari underwear also looks odd for swimming in.

I’m curious about your reaction to the Sylvari underwear. Since it appears to consist of leaves or petals growing from the Sylvari themselves, I’ve always read it as nudity that happens to have a certain measure of modesty by human standards.

And nude is the most natural form of swimming there is.

[Ashen.2907]

9 hours ago, Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

They've already been made, and are already in game. 

Are they? In a form that is usable by players? We do not know that.

Regardless, my post was a response to the comment that the only thing that matters to a business is, "will people spend money on it." The fact of the matter is that the answer to that question is only a part of the  decision. Almost anything you can imagine producing will find someone willing to spend money on it. That doesnt make every possible product a good business decision.

[Sobx.1758]

13 hours ago, Labjax.2465 said:

I'm no seer, but I think it's a safe bet that's never going to happen. Even town clothes in their original form were an "out of combat" limitation and they got rid of that and turned them into outfits in, like, 2014. If they did decide to implement swimsuits, they would be shooting themselves in the foot in terms of profit to make it limited to designated areas hidden behind a changing tent mechanic when all other outfits don't work like that. And they would be creating a massive amount of confusion for players who think they are getting one type of appearance option and getting something else.

Then again, this is the same company that added over-monetized character-bound build and gear templates so maybe I'm being naive.

Changing tents are already in the game and diving goggles already work only in a set range, within specific zones. So it doesn't seem to be a huge task to have what I'm talking about in order to fulfill the "accurate/rational [swimsuits] to the function of anyone who wants to go underwater, sail" request that was mentioned on the previous page/s.

[Altonese.6542]

2 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Changing tents are already in the game and diving goggles already work only in a set range, within specific zones. So it doesn't seem to be a huge task to have what I'm talking about in order to fulfill the "accurate/rational [swimsuits] to the function of anyone who wants to go underwater, sail" request that was mentioned on the previous page/s.

Again, it's just going to be an outfit, if it's an idea at all. The obsession with changing tents just to exert some sort of control over others continues to be odd.

At the end of the day, any opposition to swimsuit outfits tends to just be a matter of 'I don't want anyone to have this'. If it was just a personal taste, the obvious answer is to not support said outfit with gemstore funds. Easy. The idea of wanting to limit people, or just keep them from having it at all, goes beyond that in to 'No fun for people' territory, and it's weird.

Edit: As has been said multiple times, swimsuit 'resources' are already implemented. As are numerous civilian/soldier outfits that we don't have for <insert a reason that actually isn't that valid aside from weird veneration for Anet's decisions despite the fact they're people. Great people, mind you, but people who can make errors.>

Edited October 27, 2022 by Altonese.6542

[Sobx.1758]

40 minutes ago, Altonese.6542 said:

Again, it's just going to be an outfit, if it's an idea at all.

You don't know what it's going to be, if it's going to be, so not sure why you keep retyping this sentence as if you're deciding about it. I don't know it neither, but I know how I'd like to see those implemented so that's exactly what I'm sharing here.

40 minutes ago, Altonese.6542 said:

Edit: As has been said multiple times, swimsuit 'resources' are already implemented.

As stated in the post you've just quoted: so are the changing tents, as well as the -so to speak- zone/proximity-based appearance changes. That would directly fit with claims about wanting to have it in fitting surroundings, which is what I'm perfectly fine with.

Speaking of which, they might as well just want to leave it for the actual summer holidays, which is why the changing tents are included in the related festival within that specific time period.

40 minutes ago, Altonese.6542 said:

insert a reason that actually isn't that valid aside from weird veneration for Anet's decisions despite the fact they're people.

I really don't understand what and why you're targetting here. Pretty sure I understand the words and I understand the sentence, but I don't understand what this is supposed to be commenting on. Can you be a little less vague about it?

Edited October 27, 2022 by Sobx.1758

[Gryphon.2875]

8 hours ago, Ashen.2907 said:

Are they? In a form that is usable by players? We do not know that.

I'm willing to bet that converting existing assets costs less in time and money than creating new outfits or skins from scratch, and selling skins and outfits regularly is part the gem store's usual thing. Anet regularly re-uses geographic assets in new maps, so it's not a new concept.

[Labjax.2465]

13 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Changing tents are already in the game and diving goggles already work only in a set range, within specific zones. So it doesn't seem to be a huge task to have what I'm talking about in order to fulfill the "accurate/rational [swimsuits] to the function of anyone who wants to go underwater, sail" request that was mentioned on the previous page/s.

I'm not talking about the amount of work though. My point is it would be inconsistent compared to other outfits to do it that way (they'd prob have to create a new category of appearance skin to accommodate owning it), its use being so limited would likely kill its appeal for a lot of people, and the inconsistency would likely result in a huge amount of confusion over what the person is actually buying. You can imagine the support tickets and forum threads: "I bought the swimsuit outfit, but it isn't showing." "It isn't an outfit, it only shows by using changing tents within a set range in a set zone." "I want a refund then, [insert irritated customer spiel here]." It would be easier to accommodate doing it the way you describe if they made a choice like that early on in the game's life and they made a reverse kind of choice in 2014 when making town clothes more broadly usable, so on top of everything else, they would probably be accused of going backwards in time to town clothes days.

With adding swimsuits as an outfit or armor pieces, the only problem I can see on the player end is if it's a bridge too far for some players in the "my immersion" area, as it seems to be for you, and they could put out some feelers with a survey or three, if that kind of concern is holding them back at all.

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

18 hours ago, Ashen.2907 said:

Are they? In a form that is usable by players? We do not know that.

Regardless, my post was a response to the comment that the only thing that matters to a business is, "will people spend money on it." The fact of the matter is that the answer to that question is only a part of the  decision. Almost anything you can imagine producing will find someone willing to spend money on it. That doesnt make every possible product a good business decision.

It's a given, really.  When the swimsuits were made, they were made based off of the rigging for the player models.  Unless one of the outfit designers outright trashed the modeling data, it would be available and ready to use for the players.  The only thing that would need to be done would be to put the item IDs in and put them into the gemstore for purchase.  This would require some work, as you'd need to draw up thumbnails and promo images, but most of the code there was designed to easily slot items in an out.  Unless there's some convoluted corporate reason, Anet could have these things out over the span of a lunch break.

[Gibson.4036]

6 hours ago, Labjax.2465 said:

I'm not talking about the amount of work though. My point is it would be inconsistent compared to other outfits to do it that way (they'd prob have to create a new category of appearance skin to accommodate owning it), its use being so limited would likely kill its appeal for a lot of people, and the inconsistency would likely result in a huge amount of confusion over what the person is actually buying. You can imagine the support tickets and forum threads: "I bought the swimsuit outfit, but it isn't showing." "It isn't an outfit, it only shows by using changing tents within a set range in a set zone." "I want a refund then, [insert irritated customer spiel here]." It would be easier to accommodate doing it the way you describe if they made a choice like that early on in the game's life and they made a reverse kind of choice in 2014 when making town clothes more broadly usable, so on top of everything else, they would probably be accused of going backwards in time to town clothes days.

With adding swimsuits as an outfit or armor pieces, the only problem I can see on the player end is if it's a bridge too far for some players in the "my immersion" area, as it seems to be for you, and they could put out some feelers with a survey or three, if that kind of concern is holding them back at all.

In addition to the move from town clothes to outifits, we have the recent development of the jade bot mini. It seems pretty clear that this was a speedy reaction to so many people saying that they don’t want to pay for jade bot skins they would see so rarely.

Theyd want to maximize their return by making swimsuits available more broadly than a few small areas in the world.

[Sobx.1758]

14 hours ago, Labjax.2465 said:

I'm not talking about the amount of work though. My point is it would be inconsistent compared to other outfits to do it that way (they'd prob have to create a new category of appearance skin to accommodate owning it), its use being so limited would likely kill its appeal for a lot of people, and the inconsistency would likely result in a huge amount of confusion over what the person is actually buying. You can imagine the support tickets and forum threads: "I bought the swimsuit outfit, but it isn't showing." "It isn't an outfit, it only shows by using changing tents within a set range in a set zone." "I want a refund then, [insert irritated customer spiel here]." It would be easier to accommodate doing it the way you describe if they made a choice like that early on in the game's life and they made a reverse kind of choice in 2014 when making town clothes more broadly usable, so on top of everything else, they would probably be accused of going backwards in time to town clothes days.

With adding swimsuits as an outfit or armor pieces, the only problem I can see on the player end is if it's a bridge too far for some players in the "my immersion" area, as it seems to be for you, and they could put out some feelers with a survey or three, if that kind of concern is holding them back at all.

They don't need to sell it in the first place, seeing how they weren't selling the changing tents in the festival zone either. If they want to sell outfits, there's endless amount of possible choices and variations for them to apply, so if we're talking about swimsuits so the players can randomly run around in them in regular content then simply: no, thanks.

Again though, I'm absolutely fine with the changing tents. If they want to turn it into changing tents with some sort of gemstore upgrades for varied skins for RPers or w/e then I'm also fine with it, as long as it's within the fitting zones.

 

8 hours ago, Gibson.4036 said:

Theyd want to maximize their return by making swimsuits available more broadly than a few small areas in the world.

They're already doing it with every outfit they release anyways, it doesn't need to be a swimsuit in order for them to still keep making money with outfit releases.

Edited October 28, 2022 by Sobx.1758

[SinisterSlay.6973]

Hey look new outfits released.

Giant pants, dress, huge shoulders, and glowing spikes.

Really anet?

[Gryphon.2875]

Just give me a Southsun Lord Faren outfit and call it a day.

[SinisterSlay.6973]

1 hour ago, Gryphon.2875 said:

Just give me a Southsun Lord Faren outfit and call it a day.

But where would you put the glowing spikes?  Glowing spikes are required on all anet outfits.

[Gryphon.2875]

14 hours ago, SinisterSlay.6973 said:

But where would you put the glowing spikes?  Glowing spikes are required on all anet outfits.

On a helmet.

[kharmin.7683]

14 hours ago, SinisterSlay.6973 said:

But where would you put the glowing spikes?  Glowing spikes are required on all anet outfits.

Along the bikini line.

[DeanBB.4268]

14 hours ago, SinisterSlay.6973 said:

But where would you put the glowing spikes?  Glowing spikes are required on all anet outfits.

I can think of a couple of places. 😂

Edited November 10, 2022 by DeanBB.4268

[Zaoda.1653]

Well, we haven't gotten the swimsuit skins yet, but we're getting the savage scale skins coming up, which is almost just as good. I'm certainly going to be spending gems on the savage scale skins. Time for some male eye candy!!

[Arianth Moonlight.6453]

everyone wants their silly swimsuits while all I want is the good old Necromancer Scar Pattern armor 😭