Why play any other support but Scrapper? - Page 2 — Guild Wars 2 Forums
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Why play any other support but Scrapper?

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  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    No, it doesn't. I play one in GvG and while we might not be top tier like Lays or similar, in mid tier and up until right before top tier, support spellbreaker outperforms Firebrand cleanses by a mile.

    I've yet to see a warrior do actual work on the cleanse meter so... unless you show me some evidence of warriors hitting at LEAST top 3 on cleanse charts in a 3-5 minute fight (not a one push) than until then, i won't be convinced they serve much use in the support department.

    the last rework makes cleansing more important now and actually requires dedicated cleanse supports even more than before. So while support Tempest took a hit, the ability to cleanse it still provides became more valuable

    Ya, i get that. I don't mind people running tempest. But, i don't see why everyone considers it to be important NOW than it was PRE-patch, especially after what made tempest good was taken from them. If you need more cleanse just bring scrappers why bother with a tempest? They lost over 60% of their healing, 25% of their cleansing and actual utility. They lost almost everything. Just because condi-meta came back doesn't mean tempest gets magically better.

    I've been observing cleanses going out from tempests running in top guild squads, and honestly i just get really angry when i'm out-cleansing them on my meme revanant. I get angry because i usto main Tempest, so i know exactly how capable they were and that they us to be able to top cleanse. so seeing everyone all of a sudden bandwagon and do pitiful cleansing in comparison to me and scrappers just makes me think what is going on thought process wise in their head. The ship sailed a long time ago, everyone is 10 months too late.

    Here check out this cleanse meter for example.

    This is TpW (and a bunch of ESL's running alt guild tags.) Every group has a Tempest and a Scrapper. There is also at least 2 Minstrel Support Warriors in there but they aren't even close to the top 10. Personally, i was testing a meme Rev heal build (like 3rd day play a revanant ever.)

    So imagine my reaction right now in this fight ( and all the other fights this night). I'm actually just super mad. How is it that these tempests who are ESL level players barely scratching 200 cleanses, against the scrappers scooping 300-400 cleanses, and supposedly tempests are meta now because they are good cleanse? I'm sitting their mashing just my 6 key on rev doing cleanses bigger than these tempests... i was actually fuming.

    Again another example

    This one is a bit wonky because there was a time difference in combat, but it was the same general picture throughout the whole fight. Tempests were biting the dust in comparison to everyone else. One of the warriors does okay for a warrior, he's able to actually out cleanse a few of the tempests. But again what i'm thinking here is "Why are people taking tempests now because its clearly not for the cleansing is it?"

    Anyway i'm not trying to prove a point or anything. I'm cool with whatever people want to do so long as it's actually doing something useful. Being a former Tempest main just bothered me that people weren't even keen on Tempest until AFTER they were nerfed into the ground. so it just leads me to believe that people don't even know what they are doing in the game when it comes to build analysis etc.

    I'll see if we get any good fights. Currently in EU T1 there is nothing but roaming cloud and blobs. Our scrim for today just cancelled, we should have one for tomorrow and Wednesday.

    Public cleanses are hardly any proof. I outperform 90% of the heal scrappers on my server in publics on tempest (Dzagonur).

  • @Cyninja.2954 said:
    I'll see if we get any good fights. Currently in EU T1 there is nothing but roaming cloud and blobs. Our scrim for today just cancelled, we should have one for tomorrow and Wednesday.

    Public cleanses are hardly any proof. I outperform 90% of the heal scrappers on my server in publics on tempest

    My guild broke up last month, so I’ve just been following other guilds as a pug, but these charts is a common display ever since I saw Tempest popping up more often post patch. Prepatch there were barely any tempests, as they were somewhat shunned because they weren’t considered meta, but at least back then they could compete with scrapper Cleanse wise.

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    I'll see if we get any good fights. Currently in EU T1 there is nothing but roaming cloud and blobs. Our scrim for today just cancelled, we should have one for tomorrow and Wednesday.

    Public cleanses are hardly any proof. I outperform 90% of the heal scrappers on my server in publics on tempest

    My guild broke up last month, so I’ve just been following other guilds as a pug, but these charts is a common display ever since I saw Tempest popping up more often post patch. Prepatch there were barely any tempests, as they were somewhat shunned because they weren’t considered meta, but at least back then they could compete with scrapper Cleanse wise.

    I do have to make some corrections to numbers (scrims always seem longer than they actually are). For dedicated GvG, correct the time to around 1 minute for warriors, after that scrappers will pull ahead (and even before that but it depends on how well the group is in avoiding bombs). It mostly comes down to:

    • in blob warrior on berserker (or even marauder) has become a lot more squishy
    • in GvG you need to play a lot more careful, but the early cleanse is very useful (though here as mentioned, good guilds run either)

    So yes, I was over estimating fight times and used today open field fights and on border scrims as reference. Sorry bout that.

    All of our warriors are constantly asking to be allowed to switch to offense again but lead is holding fast on support spellbreaker. Then again, I avoid warrior in publics myself currently and usually roll scrapper or tempest. Depends on if there is a gild core or not.

  • JusticeRetroHunter.7684JusticeRetroHunter.7684 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 17, 2020

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    I do have to make some corrections to numbers (scrims always seem longer than they actually are). For dedicated GvG, correct the time to around 1 minute for warriors, after that scrappers will pull ahead (and even before that but it depends on how well the group is in avoiding bombs). It mostly comes down to:

    • in blob warrior on berserker (or even marauder) has become a lot more squishy
    • in GvG you need to play a lot more careful, but the early cleanse is very useful (though here as mentioned, good guilds run either)
      So yes, I was over estimating fight times and used today open field fights and on border scrims as reference. Sorry bout that.

    All of our warriors are constantly asking to be allowed to switch to offense again but lead is holding fast on support spellbreaker. Then again, I avoid warrior in publics myself currently and usually roll scrapper or tempest. Depends on if there is a gild core or not.

    Ya that’s fair, no need to apologize. if we talk about optimization for 1 minute fights (where ideally you one push and win the engagement) than almost any build can cleanse sufficiently enough in that time frame to be useful.

    But from my own analysis, the way these builds should be looked at is through how good they can be in the most non ideal situations, where fights could potentially last up to 3 minutes or more, or in outnumber situations where you are outnumbered 2 to 1. In these situations, a support spell breaker or Tempest can’t compete with scrappers in the cleanse department (and pretty much every other department in terms of support)

    Again I have nothing against spell breakers or Tempest, (it usto be my main after all)...I just don’t like how misinformation from metabattle or opinions from top players being treated as gospel have trumped true analysis and genuine theory-craft. The analysis has shown that scrapper just far exceeds other classes atm, and that a lot of the post patch updates did nothing but hurt these classes in real performance.

    People should definitely be complaining about the changes to Tempest but they aren’t (because of said misinformation) which just makes me angry...means we will never get to see Tempest return to a place where it was actually doing work and had a real purpose in WvW.

  • Paradoxoglanis.1904Paradoxoglanis.1904 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:
    why does everyone mention aegis as if its relevant? it blocks one attack lol, and isn't a stackable boon.

    There are quite a few reasons.

    • Blocking part of a bomb with aegis puts a lot less pressure on your supports
    • The pure of heart trait heals allies when aegis blocks an attack
    • The invigorated bulwark trait grants the FB additional healing after blocking attacks
    • The tenacious defense trait reduces the cooldown of tome of courage when aegis you apply blocks an attack

    It makes a huge difference, you can tell when a group knows how to play FB and use aegis effectively because they will often block the majority of your initial bomb.

  • Sovereign.1093Sovereign.1093 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Fb and quickness too. Makes all your cast time and animation faster. Really important on executing the bomb. This is why the 3 2 3 is important on fbs

    Not Even Coverage is the Only broken thing in WVW.