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Solo roaming meta

I haven't played in a few years and decided to come back and check out the game. I'm mostly interested in WvW. What does the solo roaming meta currently look like?

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  • Infusion.7149Infusion.7149 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 27, 2020

    Basically whatever is hot in PVP with some mobility is typically the roaming meta. Keep in mind some skills and traits are split between PVP and WVW.
    Classes such as holosmith, d/p or s/p daredevil, burn DH guardians, power heralds, mallyx condi heralds, power soulbeast, power reaper (usually speed runes for mobility or something akin to that), strength spellbreaker, etc.

    Of those classes unless you want to never play in groups I think you want to play holosmith (swap to DPS or heal scrapper in groups) , burn DH (swap to firebrand in groups), power herald (bring a hammer), power reaper, or strength spellbreaker (make sure you have Greatsword or double axes for better cleave).

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @whoknocks.4935 said:
    Rest are all off-meta builds which are ok to run,but doesn't "shine", like warriors, dhs, reapers, weavers etc.

    None of which are off meta and often as common.

    Some days I see more core necro superbunkers than I see thieves.

    Lately a metric ton of melee weavers litter the field and for some reason they rage whisper more thieves when they die because they are nearly immortal 1v1.

    Sometimes these so called "roamers" are the eqvivalent of King Tiger tanks raging that 5 Shermans could eventually take them out.

    gaggle - /ˈɡaɡ(ə)l/ - noun
    A disorderly group of Asura.
    "The gaggle of Asura tried to agree on whether a phase-shifted thermonuclear energy matrix was sufficiently powerful for a device capable of heating bread"

  • anduriell.6280anduriell.6280 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Mikhael.2391 said:

    @merga.6709 said:
    I haven't played in a few years and decided to come back and check out the game. I'm mostly interested in WvW. What does the solo roaming meta currently look like?

    Like since launch. Go thief

    That is true, but to be fair the nerfs to burst and mobility makes the one shot more difficult to pull off. You can't jump on an enemy player and do a 100-0 like before.
    Mobility is "nerfed" on the shortbow you will have to make use of utilities to teleport if you fail. The class is still the best roaming but now you don't have so much wiggle room if you mess up.

    Condi revenant is king you can win easy 1v3 and it has no counter, there is no effective build which can fight the condi spam that class has. Condi druid is in the same train although less 1vX potential.

    I'd like to recommend ranger as well although the class has more +1 potential than dueller.

  • kash.9213kash.9213 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Whatever works well with other classes in squads is what will work well floating around a map in different scale fights and groups. People will say thief but what are you trying to do out there? Are you trying to giggle to yourself over very few gimmicky kills or are you trying to fill your bags for materials and rewards?

    Northern Shiverpeaks [EL] & [SD]

  • Shroud.2307Shroud.2307 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 29, 2020

    @whoknocks.4935 said:
    For pure solo roaming if you wanna die the least amount possible of times, easy escapes and choosing your fights, go thief.
    But unless you are good at knowing all class mechanics you won't kill decent/good players in 1vs1s and you will get rekt even by noob ranger.

    If you want easy noob mode with 1 braincell required: longbow/greatsword soulbeast or boonbeast.

    If wanna faceroll anything in smallscale then go condi herald and mashing buttons off cd and demon F2 when loaded with condi will do the trick, at the cost of losing braincells.

    If you are too unskilled to time and press many buttons for oneshot/high burst combo, then roll an holo or scrapper with granades and after a bit of aim spam practice you are good to go.

    This is pretty much the roaming meta nowadays.

    I think this is the most accurate statement in the thread you're going to find, OP.

    Besides that, what some others have said is also true about being ganked Xv1. Very, very few players actually solo roam anymore, and in case anyone knows who I am, I'm not saying I'm any different. The vast majority of roamers play in small groups now (and always have really, it's just that it's more common now than ever) and will rarely attempt to do anything alone. If they're truly a solo roamer that play alone more often than with friends, they're very likely to be playing some kind of cookie cutter build similar to what has been said above.

    There are still avid solo roamers out there, but they are a dying breed.
    I venture out on my own quite often, but it's almost exclusively in EBG, and I'm not usually very ballsy about what I do. It's just flipping camps and looking for fights in areas I'm less likely to get zerged because most times I get jumped by a 10 man roaming guild within 5 minutes of going anywhere alone.
    In other words, I solo roam but I'm not a solo roamer.

    Necromancer / Engineer | Maguuma | Diamond Legend
    [YWY] Weeping Valley //
    My Youtube: Shroud

  • Yasai.3549Yasai.3549 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 29, 2020

    Thief if yu are skilled.
    MM Necro if yu are a noob just trying to do dailies.

    The meta has shifted so much that even full MM Scourges can kill 80% of the roaming builds solo.

    If I play a stupid build, I deserve to die.
    If I beat people on a stupid build, I deserve to get away with it.

  • Voltekka.2375Voltekka.2375 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Condi herald. Theyre everywhere and can easily 1v3

  • anduriell.6280anduriell.6280 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Voltekka.2375 said:
    Condi herald. Theyre everywhere and can easily 1v3

    it seems the previous list is a bit biased so i will fix it with my bias.

    S Tier: Thief (Deadeye, Daredevil, Core),Revenant(Condi focused Herald/Renegade)
    A Tier: Engineer ( Holosmith), Ranger (Soulbeast) ,Guardian (Core and DH)
    B Tier: Mesmer (Core, Mirage), Warrior (Spellbreaker, sometimes Core), Scrapper
    C Tier: Elementalist (Weaver), Necro (Core, Reaper),

  • phokus.8934phokus.8934 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Voltekka.2375 said:
    Condi herald. Theyre everywhere and can easily 1v3

    They only kill bad players.

    And the above list isn’t even remotely accurate.

  • Grand Marshal.4098Grand Marshal.4098 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 29, 2020

    @anduriell.6280 said:

    @Voltekka.2375 said:
    Condi herald. Theyre everywhere and can easily 1v3

    it seems the previous list is a bit biased so i will fix it with my bias.

    S Tier: Thief (Deadeye, Daredevil, Core),Revenant(Condi focused Herald/Renegade)
    A Tier: Engineer ( Holosmith), Ranger (Soulbeast) ,Guardian (Core and DH)
    B Tier: Mesmer (Core, Mirage), Warrior (Spellbreaker, sometimes Core), Scrapper
    C Tier: Elementalist (Weaver), Necro (Core, Reaper),

    @anduriell.6280 said:

    @Voltekka.2375 said:
    Condi herald. Theyre everywhere and can easily 1v3

    it seems the previous list is a bit biased so i will fix it with my bias.

    S Tier: Thief (Deadeye, Daredevil, Core),Revenant(Condi focused Herald/Renegade)
    A Tier: Engineer ( Holosmith), Ranger (Soulbeast) ,Guardian (Core and DH)
    B Tier: Mesmer (Core, Mirage), Warrior (Spellbreaker, sometimes Core), Scrapper
    C Tier: Elementalist (Weaver), Necro (Core, Reaper),

    I'd argue Necro as a b tier since Core Bunkers and Shout Reapers can be very effective. Scourge however is definitely a C tier since (unless full condi deadzone) with Minions it's a pretty meh build.

    Ele is the only profession that visually appeals to me but I can't play. It's difficult tbh. But rn, I believe that Tempests in parties of 3 to 5 are absolute tanks that deal huge damage. So Tempest A tier with a lot of skill. Core I'm not sure.

    Druid trapper can be debated A tier. Huge pool of stealth just for spamming traps, a lot of condi and high disengage capability.

    Core Rev maybe B tier with skill.

    Chronomancer maybe a C tier.

    I'd advocate that Core Ranger can pull off Soulbeast numbers.

    And now for what we've been waiting for!!!

    D Tier: Berserker (power builds are a no, condi Berserker ew, Gunflame meme), Core Engi (suprisingly underutilized, but Scrapper and Holo simply make you a better fighter to not use their Espec), Firebrand (I just can't see FB in a roaming perspective with no allies).

  • kamikharzeeh.8016kamikharzeeh.8016 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @phokus.8934 said:

    @Voltekka.2375 said:
    Condi herald. Theyre everywhere and can easily 1v3

    They only kill bad players.

    And the above list isn’t even remotely accurate.

    i mean that's questionable. while as said, i have more issues with the condirenegade. then again, i never run roamerbuilds/smallscale. no space for that. therefore, it's always a bit on a more uneven ground, since all the roamers engage obviously straight away :P

  • The DPS nerf earlier this year made most fights longer and harder to 1vX. While that's generally better balance, combine that with mount and you will get adds unless you're willing to stand in the dueling spots waiting for /bows.

    ...

    Another factor is time, tier, and map.

    Primetime on EBG is not good for a solo roamer unless you're playing an ultra-mobile thief or a troll build. Especially a top tier which usually means more population.

    Offtime EBG can be quite good solo for many builds. Easy run back to action on all sides.

    Offtime BLs on low pop tier is a wasteland. If you like standing around watching Yaks trot, go for it.

  • Clownmug.8357Clownmug.8357 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 29, 2020

    Not sure of the meta but here are some trends I've observed.

    Elementalist
    - Usually play condi/hybrid Weaver with sword + focus
    - Occasionally play fresh air power Weaver with scepter + focus

    Mesmer
    - Mostly play condi Mirage with staff / scepter + torch
    - Some like to use pistol instead of torch

    Necromancer
    - Mostly play condi core, power Reaper, or condi Scourge
    - Most condi builds use staff / scepter + dagger or scepter + torch for Scourge
    - Most power Reapers use axe + focus / greatsword with greatsword just used for pull skill
    - Using Lich Form and spamming auto-attacking has become a thing lately for power builds

    Engineer
    - Usually play power Scrapper with hammer or power Holosmith with sword + shield or rifle
    - Most just like to spam grenades lately, main weapons are only used to rotate defensive skills
    - Occasionally some will play core condi with dual pistols
    - Condi builds might also use nades because of potential attack of 9x poison for 8+ seconds

    Ranger
    - Mostly play condi Druid with shortbow / staff or power Soulbeast with longbow / greatsword
    - Some may try gimmicky builds using Quickening Zephyr + Sic Em + One Wolf Pack + Rapid Fire

    Thief
    - Usually play power core / Daredevil with dagger + pistol / shortbow or power Deadeye with rifle / dagger + pistol
    - Occasionally play condi (any spec) with pistol + dagger / shortbow
    - Some power builds will play with sword + pistol or sword + dagger rather than dagger + pistol
    - If one plays dual daggers it's usually a gimmicky glass cannon build

    Warrior
    - Mostly play power core or Spellbreaker, both usually use greatsword / axe + shield
    - Defiant Stance seems to have gained popularity lately
    - Gimmicky glass cannon rifle builds will pop up from time to time

    Guardian
    - Usually play power core, condi core, power Dragonhunter, or condi Firebrand
    - Power builds tend to use greatsword / sword + focus with meditation skills
    - Dragonhunters may slot longbow in place of greatsword and run a few trap skills
    - Most condi builds mainly use scepter + torch, some may use traited Sword of Justice
    - On occasion gimmicky one shot builds with hammer will pop up

    Revenant
    - Mostly play power Herald, condi Herald, or condi Renegade
    - Most power builds use Shiro / Glint and dual swords / staff
    - Condi Heralds use Mallyx / Glint and mace + axe / staff or mace + shield
    - Condi Renegades tend to use Mallyx / Jallis and might use shortbow instead of mace + axe

  • kash.9213kash.9213 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Clownmug.8357 said:
    Not sure of the meta but here are some trends I've observed.

    Thief
    - Usually play power core / Daredevil with dagger + pistol / shortbow or power Deadeye with rifle / dagger + pistol
    - Occasionally play condi (any spec) with pistol + dagger / shortbow
    - Some power builds will play with sword + pistol or sword + dagger rather than dagger + pistol
    - If one plays dual daggers it's usually a gimmicky glass cannon build

    Dagger/dagger is probably going to be a gimmick but sometimes you just want to get back to Cloak and Dagger and some people really can't get into sword MH. D/d feels so good to play but I can be sure some will know I had to make choices on my Utility bar and can probably get pressured down or outran. I know people get tired of seeing some of the same kits out but other people are going to use what they have on you.

    Northern Shiverpeaks [EL] & [SD]

  • Clownmug.8357Clownmug.8357 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @kash.9213 said:

    @Clownmug.8357 said:
    Not sure of the meta but here are some trends I've observed.

    Thief
    - Usually play power core / Daredevil with dagger + pistol / shortbow or power Deadeye with rifle / dagger + pistol
    - Occasionally play condi (any spec) with pistol + dagger / shortbow
    - Some power builds will play with sword + pistol or sword + dagger rather than dagger + pistol
    - If one plays dual daggers it's usually a gimmicky glass cannon build

    Dagger/dagger is probably going to be a gimmick but sometimes you just want to get back to Cloak and Dagger and some people really can't get into sword MH. D/d feels so good to play but I can be sure some will know I had to make choices on my Utility bar and can probably get pressured down or outran. I know people get tired of seeing some of the same kits out but other people are going to use what they have on you.

    Yeah, people already got tired of seeing dagger/dagger back in 2012 though, lol.

  • i am seeing way less condi heralds in WvW in recent months. And when i say way less i mean like i haven't seen a single one in the last few weeks in T1/T2 NA.
    Its still a plague of thieves and rangers in wvw roaming scene.

  • NuhDah.9812NuhDah.9812 Member ✭✭✭

    @kash.9213 said:
    Whatever works well with other classes in squads is what will work well floating around a map in different scale fights and groups. People will say thief but what are you trying to do out there? Are you trying to giggle to yourself over very few gimmicky kills or are you trying to fill your bags for materials and rewards?

    Surely for the gimmicky kills. If he wanted mats and rewards he would have picked another game mode.

  • kash.9213kash.9213 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @NuhDah.9812 said:

    @kash.9213 said:
    Whatever works well with other classes in squads is what will work well floating around a map in different scale fights and groups. People will say thief but what are you trying to do out there? Are you trying to giggle to yourself over very few gimmicky kills or are you trying to fill your bags for materials and rewards?

    Surely for the gimmicky kills. If he wanted mats and rewards he would have picked another game mode.

    WvW is nice if you only have like an hour and half after work. I don't know what roaming brings in but floating and reading the maps can land you in most stuff happening and bags can fill up pretty fast. What other game or game mode can you consistently pull or knock people off of cliffs and walls though?

    Northern Shiverpeaks [EL] & [SD]

  • LetoII.3782LetoII.3782 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @NuhDah.9812 said:

    @kash.9213 said:
    Whatever works well with other classes in squads is what will work well floating around a map in different scale fights and groups. People will say thief but what are you trying to do out there? Are you trying to giggle to yourself over very few gimmicky kills or are you trying to fill your bags for materials and rewards?

    Surely for the gimmicky kills. If he wanted mats and rewards he would have picked another game mode.

    I'm just here for the silk scraps ,yo

    [HUNT] the predatory instinct

  • fuzzyp.6295fuzzyp.6295 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 29, 2020

    @Spartacus.3192 said:
    i am seeing way less condi heralds in WvW in recent months. And when i say way less i mean like i haven't seen a single one in the last few weeks in T1/T2 NA.
    Its still a plague of thieves and rangers in wvw roaming scene.

    Same here, I recently went through a couple hours of recorded footage to put together a video of my fights and out of the hours I had saved I only had three fights with Revs, two condi and one power. Condi Rev is still strong but its no where near as oppressive as it was back in the early spring of 2020. Had plenty of Soulbeast and Daredevil fights though!

  • kamikharzeeh.8016kamikharzeeh.8016 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 30, 2020

    @RangerThings.9810 said:
    The DPS nerf earlier this year made most fights longer and harder to 1vX. While that's generally better balance, combine that with mount and you will get adds unless you're willing to stand in the dueling spots waiting for /bows.

    Another factor is time, tier, and map.

    Primetime on EBG is not good for a solo roamer unless you're playing an ultra-mobile thief or a troll build. Especially a top tier which usually means more population.

    Offtime EBG can be quite good solo for many builds. Easy run back to action on all sides.

    Offtime BLs on low pop tier is a wasteland. If you like standing around watching Yaks trot, go for it.

    i acutally dislike the DPS nerf. everything dies so slow and many classes got taken away a lot of damage, where for example things like thief, dpsengis, ranger, reaper can still burst crazy amounts pretty quick. the whole "balancing" came so uncoordinated and nobody of the dev team even wasted a second thought about this i guess.

    healers have it way harder to effectively tag things for kills now, making your time in some matters (as in, collecting kills for Ultimate Dominator) extremly hard, compared to how it was for the players from let's say older than 2 years ago overall.

    please don't call it "top tier" ... it's called tier 1 but is fully equal to tier 5; both are pretty bad places to be, on the long hand. tiers are absolutely worthless.

  • Voltekka.2375Voltekka.2375 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Spartacus.3192 said:
    i am seeing way less condi heralds in WvW in recent months. And when i say way less i mean like i haven't seen a single one in the last few weeks in T1/T2 NA.
    Its still a plague of thieves and rangers in wvw roaming scene.

    I am seeing condi heralds daily in EU, at least 8-10 each day. And virtually no powerrevs anymore.

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Voltekka.2375 said:

    @Spartacus.3192 said:
    i am seeing way less condi heralds in WvW in recent months. And when i say way less i mean like i haven't seen a single one in the last few weeks in T1/T2 NA.
    Its still a plague of thieves and rangers in wvw roaming scene.

    I am seeing condi heralds daily in EU, at least 8-10 each day. And virtually no powerrevs anymore.

    Power heralds has definetly taken a hit since the power nerf and more people discovering how stupidly OP torment runes are on them. Even seeing the odd condi renegade now and then. Just like core necro superbunkers, they are the worst to fight when you outnumber them with... less than ideal... teammates compared to you fighting them 1v1 or especially with a good +1. Fighting rangers and thieves is comparably trivial in the same situation.

    gaggle - /ˈɡaɡ(ə)l/ - noun
    A disorderly group of Asura.
    "The gaggle of Asura tried to agree on whether a phase-shifted thermonuclear energy matrix was sufficiently powerful for a device capable of heating bread"

  • subversiontwo.7501subversiontwo.7501 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 30, 2020

    @Nitrosiili.5628 said:
    The solo roaming meta nowadays is a group of 2-5 players. At least 1 of them is a pocket healer.

    Well, yeah, that is what the Thief balance creates. This thread is pretty indicative of that. If the most common thing you're gonna see out there is 1-3 Thieves running ganks then your option quickly becomes to group up and run support. The same could be said about the prevalence of condi, even though the current popularity of condi obviously has more to do with condi simply being better than power on far too many classes/builds due to the ongoing rebalancing. Still, condi has always been a way to at least stalemate gankers so when the climate is just trolling and ganks you are going to see more of the coping too. If you look into duelling there are more classes/builds popping up that see a fair bit of use but even the duelling stuff seems pretty BM these days and prone to take on the realities of small-scale roaming.

    Just comming off some impromtu low-content clouding/roaming in/around SM and the 6 players streaking about on the opposing side was 4 Thieves and 2 Mesmers. As has been noted elsewhere, every server, match up or tiering isn't the same but the more populated areas of the game tend to be more prone to show the possibilities of the balance and the lower-populated areas of the game a bit more sensitive to the content. So people's perspectives will differ (EU to NA, tier 1 to tier 5) but the less gentlemanly areas of the mode tend to be more representative of the actual balance.

    If we're talking roaming rather than duelling and we're looking at the solo climate and possibilities (1vX), well, this is what we have.

    Also, as noted elsewhere, I'm not too fussed about it as I prefer things closer to 5-man than solo at the smaller scales and the balance is driving players into my content, but if you want change in the 1-3, then not looking at- or letting yourself be honest about what drives trend is putting your head in the sand.

  • Voltekka.2375Voltekka.2375 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @phokus.8934 said:

    @Voltekka.2375 said:
    Condi herald. Theyre everywhere and can easily 1v3

    They only kill bad players.

    And the above list isn’t even remotely accurate.

    Herald main spotted? Condi herald, of all things? Where people need "hurrdurr l2p, dodge, nub, ez".
    Condi herald is broken as it is now.
    "Bad players die to it". Bad players also die to thieves

  • Yasai.3549Yasai.3549 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 31, 2020

    @Voltekka.2375 said:
    Condi herald is broken as it is now.
    "Bad players die to it". Bad players also die to thieves

    Bad players die to everything kek.

    But seriously, Condi Herald 1v1 is not impossible or "broken" by any means.
    Stay on the defensive when they are in Mallyx, go on the Offensive when they are in Glint, and take care not to free heal them during Infuse Light.
    That's basically all it takes to beat them right now.
    And even if yu can't beat them, alot of builds can outrun them because Condi Herald has really weak mobility.

    Are they very strong? Yes.
    Are they broken? Far from it.

    Alot of stuff in the game can be beaten or encountered with game knowledge, I much prefer to fight things that require strategy to beat.
    Which less can be said for low/no skill MM builds which just let their minions do all the chip damage while they just sit there and take camps.

    If I play a stupid build, I deserve to die.
    If I beat people on a stupid build, I deserve to get away with it.

  • realviizz.4982realviizz.4982 Member ✭✭
    edited December 31, 2020

    Just play anything that can spam conditions or thief and you'll be king in the roaming ring
    But i'm speaking from a scourge perspective here :)

  • Shroud.2307Shroud.2307 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 31, 2020

    @Yasai.3549 said:

    @Voltekka.2375 said:
    Condi herald is broken as it is now.
    "Bad players die to it". Bad players also die to thieves

    Bad players die to everything kek.

    But seriously, Condi Herald 1v1 is not impossible or "broken" by any means.
    Stay on the defensive when they are in Mallyx, go on the Offensive when they are in Glint, and take care not to free heal them during Infuse Light.
    That's basically all it takes to beat them right now.
    And even if yu can't beat them, alot of builds can outrun them because Condi Herald has really weak mobility.

    Are they very strong? Yes.
    Are they broken? Far from it.

    Alot of stuff in the game can be beaten or encountered with game knowledge, I much prefer to fight things that require strategy to beat.
    Which less can be said for low/no skill MM builds which just let their minions do all the chip damage while they just sit there and take camps.

    Necro had the strength of things like Spiteful Spirit and Chill of Death nerfed because they were no-tell procs that did heavy damage. Those were good changes because it added more counterplay. You don't suddenly take a big hit just from being in the general vicinity of the Necro with no warning anymore.

    Condi Herald can apply several Conditions in an area around them with no tell when swapping Legends, of which you can further buff with sigils like; Blighting, Doom, Geomancy, etc.
    True Nature is also bugged with Mallyx and is both Unblindable and Undodgable with one shot potential if they have enough stacks on them. If you look here you can see this bug. I could be mistaken on this one, but it also has a radius of 600. I think it's actually 360 in WvW? I forget, but either way, both are an enormous radius. These things are all very similar to what I'd said about Necro in that you can suddenly take heavy damage just by being in the general vicinity of the Herald, which is why they should be changed.

    True Nature needs to be fixed and to have its radius reduced. You say it isn't broken, but this skill is objectively so. Call To Anguish needs the Chill removed, and Invoking Torment should have the duration of the Conditions it applies reduced.
    It has also been suggested in other threads that Infuse Light should be a more costly skill to upkeep so you can't just camp it.

    Otherwise I agree with what you've said about how to fight it.

    Necromancer / Engineer | Maguuma | Diamond Legend
    [YWY] Weeping Valley //
    My Youtube: Shroud

  • Yasai.3549Yasai.3549 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Shroud.2307 said:

    Condi Herald can apply several Conditions in an area around them with no tell when swapping Legends, of which you can further buff with sigils like; Blighting, Doom, Geomancy, etc.
    True Nature is also bugged with Mallyx and is both Unblindable and Undodgable with one shot potential if they have enough stacks on them. If you look here you can see this bug. I could be mistaken on this one, but it also has a radius of 600. I think it's actually 360 in WvW? I forget, but either way, both are an enormous radius. These things are all very similar to what I'd said about Necro in that you can suddenly take heavy damage just by being in the general vicinity of the Herald, which is why they should be changed.

    True Nature needs to be fixed and to have its radius reduced. You say it isn't broken, but this skill is objectively so. Call To Anguish needs the Chill removed, and Invoking Torment should have the duration of the Conditions it applies reduced.
    It has also been suggested in other threads that Infuse Light should be a more costly skill to upkeep so you can't just camp it.

    Otherwise I agree with what you've said about how to fight it.

    Yea, it's really no longer a secret that the single source of all of Condi Herald's damage is actually swapping in their enemy's face and unloading all the Condi.
    If one knows how to look out for that attack pattern, it's really easy to avoid having that attack land.

    TN Demon is the real problem here in the end : I have made several posts talking about either nerfing TN Demon or changing how it functions altogether.
    I see no reason why TN Demon should transfer condis up to 5 people AND give Might for Condis transferred as well.
    Makes no sense at all.

    If I play a stupid build, I deserve to die.
    If I beat people on a stupid build, I deserve to get away with it.

  • Shroud.2307Shroud.2307 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Yasai.3549 said:

    @Shroud.2307 said:

    Condi Herald can apply several Conditions in an area around them with no tell when swapping Legends, of which you can further buff with sigils like; Blighting, Doom, Geomancy, etc.
    True Nature is also bugged with Mallyx and is both Unblindable and Undodgable with one shot potential if they have enough stacks on them. If you look here you can see this bug. I could be mistaken on this one, but it also has a radius of 600. I think it's actually 360 in WvW? I forget, but either way, both are an enormous radius. These things are all very similar to what I'd said about Necro in that you can suddenly take heavy damage just by being in the general vicinity of the Herald, which is why they should be changed.

    True Nature needs to be fixed and to have its radius reduced. You say it isn't broken, but this skill is objectively so. Call To Anguish needs the Chill removed, and Invoking Torment should have the duration of the Conditions it applies reduced.
    It has also been suggested in other threads that Infuse Light should be a more costly skill to upkeep so you can't just camp it.

    Otherwise I agree with what you've said about how to fight it.

    Yea, it's really no longer a secret that the single source of all of Condi Herald's damage is actually swapping in their enemy's face and unloading all the Condi.
    If one knows how to look out for that attack pattern, it's really easy to avoid having that attack land.

    TN Demon is the real problem here in the end : I have made several posts talking about either nerfing TN Demon or changing how it functions altogether.
    I see no reason why TN Demon should transfer condis up to 5 people AND give Might for Condis transferred as well.
    Makes no sense at all.

    Agreed for sure.
    I think all Condi Herald needs are like two or three small changes and it will be a lot more balanced. It is "easy" to counter it right now by hard kiting it, but it there are still a couple things about it that shouldn't be performing the way they are. True Nature (Demon) being the biggest issue.

    Necromancer / Engineer | Maguuma | Diamond Legend
    [YWY] Weeping Valley //
    My Youtube: Shroud

  • Sobx.1758Sobx.1758 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 1, 2021

    @subversiontwo.7501 said:

    @Nitrosiili.5628 said:
    The solo roaming meta nowadays is a group of 2-5 players. At least 1 of them is a pocket healer.

    Well, yeah, that is what the Thief balance creates. This thread is pretty indicative of that.

    Not sure where you got that from, but claiming that these small organized groups are somehow the result of roaming thieves is just false. These groups would still exist as much as they do today, no matter what class or roaming playstyle dominated. And that's because it's not a direct answer to anything other than organized group being stronger than multiple single players blobed together -shocker, I know.

  • NuhDah.9812NuhDah.9812 Member ✭✭✭

    @kash.9213 said:

    @NuhDah.9812 said:

    @kash.9213 said:
    Whatever works well with other classes in squads is what will work well floating around a map in different scale fights and groups. People will say thief but what are you trying to do out there? Are you trying to giggle to yourself over very few gimmicky kills or are you trying to fill your bags for materials and rewards?

    Surely for the gimmicky kills. If he wanted mats and rewards he would have picked another game mode.

    WvW is nice if you only have like an hour and half after work. I don't know what roaming brings in but floating and reading the maps can land you in most stuff happening and bags can fill up pretty fast. What other game or game mode can you consistently pull or knock people off of cliffs and walls though?

    Pretty sure if you do a fractal, or a meta event on some map you'll end up with significantly more income than spending time in wvw. Heck, i'm pretty sure if you do your spvp dailies you'll get more value in gold. That being said, it's true that wvw might be more fun to do, so you'll find me there most of the time i'm playing... But I'm surely not doing this for heavy loot bags.

  • Yasai.3549Yasai.3549 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @subversiontwo.7501 said:

    @Nitrosiili.5628 said:
    The solo roaming meta nowadays is a group of 2-5 players. At least 1 of them is a pocket healer.

    Well, yeah, that is what the Thief balance creates. This thread is pretty indicative of that.

    Not sure where you got that from, but claiming that these small organized groups are somehow the result of roaming thieves is just false. These groups would still exist as much as they do today, no matter what class or roaming playstyle dominated. And that's because it's not a direct answer to anything other than organized group being stronger than multiple single players blobed together -shocker, I know.

    Maybe he confuses roaming with solo roaming.

    If I play a stupid build, I deserve to die.
    If I beat people on a stupid build, I deserve to get away with it.

  • kash.9213kash.9213 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @NuhDah.9812 said:

    @kash.9213 said:

    @NuhDah.9812 said:

    @kash.9213 said:
    Whatever works well with other classes in squads is what will work well floating around a map in different scale fights and groups. People will say thief but what are you trying to do out there? Are you trying to giggle to yourself over very few gimmicky kills or are you trying to fill your bags for materials and rewards?

    Surely for the gimmicky kills. If he wanted mats and rewards he would have picked another game mode.

    WvW is nice if you only have like an hour and half after work. I don't know what roaming brings in but floating and reading the maps can land you in most stuff happening and bags can fill up pretty fast. What other game or game mode can you consistently pull or knock people off of cliffs and walls though?

    Pretty sure if you do a fractal, or a meta event on some map you'll end up with significantly more income than spending time in wvw. Heck, i'm pretty sure if you do your spvp dailies you'll get more value in gold. That being said, it's true that wvw might be more fun to do, so you'll find me there most of the time i'm playing... But I'm surely not doing this for heavy loot bags.

    Ya, I make enough to gather stuff for a new skin once in awhile and ascended food. Anyone roaming, anyone working siege, or anyone trying to do a variety of stuff besides face planting into blobs have to plan out enough Participation and tag up whatever on the way. I'm like a failed Mandalorian trying to put together my armor and shamefully short in Legendary pieces, which might be partially laziness but everything else cost gold also. I almost wish WvW had bounties or missions or something but fight clubs would get that killed off.

    Northern Shiverpeaks [EL] & [SD]

  • NuhDah.9812NuhDah.9812 Member ✭✭✭

    @kash.9213 said:

    @NuhDah.9812 said:

    @kash.9213 said:

    @NuhDah.9812 said:

    @kash.9213 said:
    Whatever works well with other classes in squads is what will work well floating around a map in different scale fights and groups. People will say thief but what are you trying to do out there? Are you trying to giggle to yourself over very few gimmicky kills or are you trying to fill your bags for materials and rewards?

    Surely for the gimmicky kills. If he wanted mats and rewards he would have picked another game mode.

    WvW is nice if you only have like an hour and half after work. I don't know what roaming brings in but floating and reading the maps can land you in most stuff happening and bags can fill up pretty fast. What other game or game mode can you consistently pull or knock people off of cliffs and walls though?

    Pretty sure if you do a fractal, or a meta event on some map you'll end up with significantly more income than spending time in wvw. Heck, i'm pretty sure if you do your spvp dailies you'll get more value in gold. That being said, it's true that wvw might be more fun to do, so you'll find me there most of the time i'm playing... But I'm surely not doing this for heavy loot bags.

    Ya, I make enough to gather stuff for a new skin once in awhile and ascended food. Anyone roaming, anyone working siege, or anyone trying to do a variety of stuff besides face planting into blobs have to plan out enough Participation and tag up whatever on the way. I'm like a failed Mandalorian trying to put together my armor and shamefully short in Legendary pieces, which might be partially laziness but everything else cost gold also. I almost wish WvW had bounties or missions or something but fight clubs would get that killed off.

    Well, if you're not a compulsive achiever, there is no need to collect your mando armor fast. It's the journey that matters, and as long as you enjoy it, it's worth the time.